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[metalslimer]

Well you have to think about who is going to buy a wiiu at 350 dollars and that seems more like hardcore nintendo fans than families, so maybe even showing future games like Yoshi and Smash in commercials could help because there is a general feeling that the Wiiu has nothing coming

The WiiU has similar, if not worse, execution problems, but there was no forward momentum coming from the predecessor console.

To be honest even if they launched in 2011 when there was still some momentum i dont think things would be that much different with the same lineup

 

[Kodiak]

They really should have had Mario Kart 8 ready alongside 3D Mario World, it would be a different story.

I don't think very many people at all will buy the WIi U for WWHD. It seems very much like a rough and dirty port for a Nintendo desperate for an increased number of titles on the Wii U. Luigi smells even worse in this regard. Having such a skeletal lineup of games, while the 3DS is so robust right now - something must have gone horribly wrong internally with the Wii U.

 

[Rocky]

They are both utter disasters. So was the 3DS, frankly.

I know it makes for good message board fun, but everyone should realize that this is an unpredictable business and who the fuck knows what the future will hold.

Even this last gen:

1. Almost everyone predicted the Wii would flop

2. No one saw the Kinect leading to a second wind for the XBox.

3. PS3 was deemed dead and buried, but it made a slow clawback to respectability (even though Sony took a pounding in losses)

In conclusion, people saying "its dead" or "bury this console" sound foolish and should not be so sure of themselves.

Well, those that are saying the holiday will turn it around sound just as foolish and shouldn't be so sure of themselves either. Like you said, no one knows what the future will hold.

 

[jmls1121]

Yep, but it's equally foolish to say "Well look at the PS3, WiiU turn it around!" because the whole story is a bit more complex than "poor sales originally, eventually made a come back".

WiiU is not the PS3, their respective situations post-launch are very different because of a quite large number of important factors.

"Well look at the DC, it sold poorly originally and then Sega went 3rd party" is about as equally valid as the example above.

I completely agree. Anyone saying "WiiU will turn around because PS3 did" is foolish. Two different companies with completely different models.

I think there are parallels between the 3DS turnaround and what the WiiU is trying to do.

But the main point I was trying to make is that anyone foreclosing any chance at revival, or already deeming them buried this holiday, is foolish and has no clue of how unpredictable and fluid this industry is.

 

[NeonZ]

Really? Mario and Donkey Kong aren't tent poles franchises? They're what made Nintendo in the first place.

They "made" Nintendo because they were new experiences and stood out in various ways. Later entries in the franchises often had their own features that made them stand out again. The upcoming titles are heavily derivative of their last entries. That didn't work for NSMBU, and won't work for them.

That's the main problem with the GamePad's lack of appeal. Theoretically, the new hardware should easily allow them to be new experiences, but that just isn't happening. They're seem as the same old, and an HD upgrade means little to most of the audience that bought their games last gen, even though they weren't HD, in spite of the competitor consoles.

With a decent marketing , Wii Fit U and Wii Party U can lure the causal market.

Didn't Wii Party itself underpeform in the USA, although it did well in Europe and Japan? I don't think Wii Party U has any chance of doing anything for that audience. I'm not sure about Wii Fit U, but I wouldn't expect much from it either due to the same problems with the rest of their 2013 line up.

 

[JCX]

...You're getting Zelda, and a main 3D Mario game by this Dec.

A Zelda port and a sequel to a 3DS Mario Game (that I really loved, but still).

I'm not saying those won't increase sales (they probably will), just that in this crowded holiday season, it would be ideal for Nintendo to have a heavy hitting new game that can build buzz around the Wii U.

 

[LordGouda]

I completely agree. Anyone saying "WiiU will turn around because PS3 did" is foolish. Two different companies with completely different models.

I think there are parallels between the 3DS turnaround and what the WiiU is trying to do.

But the main point I was trying to make is that anyone foreclosing any chance at revival, or already deeming them buried this holiday, is foolish and has no clue of how unpredictable and fluid this industry is.

I like you.

Spoiler

Not in that way.

 

[Data West]

Is any Nintendo fan going to be playing anything other than Pokemon this holiday season?

 

[SporeCrawler]

Didn't Wii Party itself underpeform in the USA, although it did well in Europe and Japan? I don't think Wii Party U has any chance of doing anything for that audience. I'm not sure about Wii Fit U, but I wouldn't expect much from it either due to the same problems with the rest of their 2013 line up.

wii party did 10 million units world wide. It sold better than donkey kong or zelda wind waker
I think wii fit u and wii party u should be the main products for nintendos commercials. There are no similar products for xbox or playstation comming this year (aside of maybe kinect sports)

Xbox One - $499.99
PS4 - $399.99
Wii U - $349.99
PS3 16GB - $199.99
Xbox 360 4GB - $199.99

Good luck with that.

Even at 150 (nintendoland included) i would argue 360, ps3 has better value (and a brighter future), but looking at the prices really demonstrates how hard the situation is going to be nintendo. They need to do a 100-150$ pricedrop fast. Maybe they should do a 350$ wiiu + 3DS bundle as well

Is any Nintendo fan going to be playing anything other than Pokemon this holiday season?

Im going to play donkey kong, mario, wind waker, w101 and going to swith to wiifitu

 

[jmls1121]

Well, those that are saying the holiday will turn it around sound just as foolish and shouldn't be so sure of themselves either. Like you said, no one knows what the future will hold.

LOL, I agree. Anyone that has a surefire belief that the WiiU will turn it around, fresh off a 30k July in North America, is probably more foolish.

This is going to be the most excited holiday to watch from a sales perspective ever.

 

[Aaron Strife]

A Zelda port

Fair. I don't expect WWHD to boost Wii U sales that much.

and a sequel to a 3DS Mario Game (that I really loved, but still).

A 3DS Mario game that sold 8 million copies and will probably end up the best-selling 3D Mario game ever. The Wii U game also features multiplayer, a first for any 3D Mario game in any substantial fashion. There's no reason why it's less of a killer app than say, Mario Galaxy.

 

[-COOLIO-]

funny enough out of the 3 consoles, wii u actually has the most games that i'm interested in atm.

all the cool launch games for one and ps4 to me, are all multiplat, and seems like pc will be the best version, even on my average rig.

if youre looking at one console for the next 5 years though, thats not the best way to look at it.

the wii u has a year headstart so itll have a few more notable exclusives that you might be interested in, but when the ps4 and xbo hit their stride you might instead want the exclusives that look 7x better that you can play on psn/xbl.

 

[w1gglyjones]

if youre looking at one console for the next 5 years though, thats not the best way to look at it.

the wii u has a year headstart so itll have a few more notable exclusives that you might be interested in, but when the ps4 and xbo hit their stride you might instead want the exclusives that look 7x better that you can play on psn/xbl.

So the best way to look at it is at the end of the generation? Who would have thought that PS3 would have a very nice collection of exclusives by now, 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[The_Macho_King]

A Zelda port and a sequel to a 3DS Mario Game (that I really loved, but still).

I'm not saying those won't increase sales (they probably will), just that in this crowded holiday season, it would be ideal for Nintendo to have a heavy hitting new game that can build buzz around the Wii U.

I would expect those games to improve sales to where they're more healthy than they are now. It's a far better situation than before but no way in fucking hell it can deter consumers and the dudebro crowd for jumping onto the next gen bandwagon.

Right now Nintendo has its fans only and they're doing a poor job at that as well. Recycling their 3DS and Wii greatest hits is not some daring strategy. There will be no huge pay off. Long time fans would have been better served with games like FZERO, Metroid, Star Fox, Punchout, Wave Race, Mario RPG. Stuff like that along with Mario Kart 8 for the casual crowd would've been far more exciting.

I can't care so much for DKR and 3D Land when I'm considering Sonic and Rayman over them both. You already have Sonic and Rayman! What benefit does it have to release a bunch of casual titles at once? Those are the games that should've been spread out.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

No Mario Kart in time for the holidays was a dagger through the heart for this platform. It was already on its last breaths but there was a chance with an MK8 release in time for Xmas. An MK8 bundle with a price drop probably would have turned things around. Having that game ready should have been their #1 priority. Should have put guys from other teams onto the MK8 team to speed it up, whatever it takes.

 

[LordGouda]

if youre looking at one console for the next 5 years though, thats not the best way to look at it.

the wii u has a year headstart so itll have a few more notable exclusives that you might be interested in, but when the ps4 and xbo hit their stride you might instead want the exclusives that look 7x better that you can play on psn/xbl.

Didn't that's why he said "atm" meaning "at the moment"?

 

[warthog]

Nintendo had a head start, came out with a gimmick and a lousy library first months.

The gimmick didn't attract people, N didn't bring the big games and now that PS4/Xbone are coming out, they have to fight with an underpowered console. And as it seems they don't have much room to wiggle the price, so they have a big problem. Most problematic is the fact that they don't seem to realize this.

 

[Rocky]

No Mario Kart in time for the holidays was a dagger through the heart for this platform. It was already on its last breaths but there was a chance with an MK8 release in time for Xmas. An MK8 bundle with a price drop probably would have turned things around. Having that game ready should have been their #1 priority. Should have put guys from other teams onto the MK8 team to speed it up, whatever it takes.

Completely agree. I still wonder what Nintendo was thinking launching MK8 next spring. I think will really cost them big time this holiday season more than anything else.

 

[Raist]

His point is still valid. People make predictions but sound like they're facts.

Goes both ways.

At the moment, the WiiU is a huge trainwreck, and it doesn't have as much room for price decrease (assuming Nintendo is even ready to make a small one quickly), has major 3rd party support issues, internal devs issues (so with these 3, there goes the PS3 comparison), and in addition is apparently not going to tap into Wii's market much.

Short of a big price cup and sustained released of big 1st party games, it's not going to go anywhere.

 

[Kodiak]

Nintendo had a head start, came out with a gimmick and a lousy library first months.

The gimmick didn't attract people, N didn't bring the big games and now that PS4/Xbone are coming out, they have to fight with an underpowered console. And as it seems they don't have much room to wiggle the price, so they have a big problem. Most problematic is the fact that they don't seem to realize this.

The sad thing is that they have something truly fresh on their hands. My friends and I have had a lot of fun with Nintendoland and it was stickier for us than Wii Sports. I wonder if there is anyway Nintendo can manage to get the idea to catch on more. They need some sort of hit that uses the gamepad effectively.

What are the odds of that happening?

 

[LOCK]

New games will generate sales this holiday. Nintendo rules holiday sales.

Now will it be a huge turnaround, probably not. It won't be as poor as some in this thread are making it out to be either.

 

[JCX]

I wonder if it would help the game droughts if Nintendo made a Netflix/Sega Channel change to Virtual Console.

Allow 50 games per month with a rotating catalog and a monthly subscription fee.

If a game rotates off before you finish it or you don';t want to subscribe, there is an option to just buy the game.

 

[w1gglyjones]

The sad thing is that they have something truly fresh on their hands. My friends and I have had a lot of fun with Nintendoland and it was stickier for us than Wii Sports. I wonder if there is anyway Nintendo can manage to get the idea to catch on more. They need some sort of hit that uses the gamepad effectively.

What are the odds of that happening?

The odds of creating more software that uses the gamepad effectively for single player or multiplayer is high. They already did it with Nintendo Land. Problem is still the price for that experience is high (for the console). Conveying that experience is yet another challenge.

They were able to sell the Wii + Wii Fit and Balance Board, but I don't think Fruit Cart and Crash Course would sell the same way to a single player audience. The multiplayer games are fun, have depth but the system costs a lot and thus far, hasn't proven it's longevity as a platform for most people.

 

[ab.aeterno]

I completely agree. Anyone saying "WiiU will turn around because PS3 did" is foolish. Two different companies with completely different models.

I think there are parallels between the 3DS turnaround and what the WiiU is trying to do.

But the main point I was trying to make is that anyone foreclosing any chance at revival, or already deeming them buried this holiday, is foolish and has no clue of how unpredictable and fluid this industry is.

I like you.

Spoiler

In that way.

But seriously, I think either argument for or against a turnaround has merit, so long as we're not speaking in absolutes.

 

[PhantomR]

Is any Nintendo fan going to be playing anything other than Pokemon this holiday season?

......yes.


?

 

[Dog food is delicious]

I'm over it at this point.

I used to get too wrapped up in what games I wasn't getting but now I just don't care.

I have a Wii U, but I don't play it. That will change in the future, and that's fine. They're gonna get killed by the PS4/One and I've accepted that.

 

[Josh7289]

If Wii U is still struggling past 2014, it's over. 2014 is key, I think; not so much holiday 2013.

 

[jmls1121]

I like you.

Spoiler

In that way.

But seriously, I think either argument for or against a turnaround has merit, so long as we're not speaking in absolutes.

Thanks! I like to believe that I have a rational take on this industry, and I have NO IDEA how this console will shake out saleswise. I could see it being a perpetual disaster never topping 15 million lifetime, and I could see it rising to 50-70 million heaven. There are just too many variables.

One thing is for certain, that $399 price from Playstation will eat into Nintendo's sales. I knew a shit ton of older gamers last gen that were like "fuck $599, I will just chill and play Mario Kart with my buddies."

 

[-COOLIO-]

So the best way to look at it is at the end of the generation? Who would have thought that PS3 would have a very nice collection of exclusives by now, 3 or 4 years ago.

in the next five years, not at the end of five years. the gaming library will look immensely better on the ps4 and xbo over the wii u fairly quickly, that's what i'm trying to say.

 

[Data West]

......yes.


?

We'll see. I see X and Y being mega hits, but I can't say much of the same for their Wii U lineup, especially with no price drop.

 

[cyberheater]

If Wii U is still struggling past 2014, it's over. 2014 is key, I think; not so much holiday 2013.

I love the moving goal posts.

 

[Petrae]

Nice to see GameStop brass being diplomatic about the WiiU's chances, but they have the same hunches we have: the platform is going to suffer this fall in terms of hardware sales.

PS4/XBO are the new kids on the block, wresting that distinction from WiiU. There's going to be a LOT of attention on these two platforms, especially from core consumers and typical early adopters.

3DS will have Pokemon and sales of the device are starting to show signs of moving in the right direction. At $170-$200, it's a cheaper purchase than WiiU and its wider portability is a nice feature. There are also versions of Mario and Zelda for 3DS which are considerably less expensive than the $60 Nintendo wants for the WiiU games.

Finally, you've got one last gasp for the previous console generation. GTA V will be dominant and the other huge multiplatform games this year will be available on these old consoles. Consumers may decide to play the waiting game this season and spend on software instead, as there will be quite a bit of it.

All of these factors tug potential sales from a platform that already has nothing going for it. A new Mario game and a high-priced Zelda remake aren't going to be significantly attractive. Several of the biggest games of the year-- GTA V, Madden 25, and FIFA-- won't be available for WiiU, either... which will make many potential buyers think twice.

It's likely going to be a tough Q4 for WiiU. We'll see unit sales increase, and finally get past the Wii & DS to escape sharing the cellar with Vita... but WiiU won't compete with 3DS, the new consoles on the block, or even last-generation hardware.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I love the moving goal posts.

I think 2013 is really going to decide WiiUs fate. Mario kart 8 and smash alone will be not enough if Zelda WW, Mario, Donkey Kong, Wii Sports and Wii Fit all fail to reach reasonable numbers

 

[SporeCrawler]

Nice to see GameStop brass being diplomatic about the WiiU's chances, but they have the same hunches we have: the platform is going to suffer this fall in terms of hardware sales.

PS4/XBO are the new kids on the block, wresting that distinction from WiiU. There's going to be a LOT of attention on these two platforms, especially from core consumers and typical early adopters.

3DS will have Pokemon and sales of the device are starting to show signs of moving in the right direction. At $170-$200, it's a cheaper purchase than WiiU and its wider portability is a nice feature. There are also versions of Mario and Zelda for 3DS which are considerably less expensive than the $60 Nintendo wants for the WiiU games.

Finally, you've got one last gasp for the previous console generation. GTA V will be dominant and the other huge multiplatform games this year will be available on these old consoles. Consumers may decide to play the waiting game this season and spend on software instead, as there will be quite a bit of it.

All of these factors tug potential sales from a platform that already has nothing going for it. A new Mario game and a high-priced Zelda remake aren't going to be significantly attractive. Several of the biggest games of the year-- GTA V, Madden 25, and FIFA-- won't be available for WiiU, either... which will make many potential buyers think twice.

It's likely going to be a tough Q4 for WiiU. We'll see unit sales increase, and finally get past the Wii & DS to escape sharing the cellar with Vita... but WiiU won't compete with 3DS, the new consoles on the block, or even last-generation hardware.

I think xbone and ps4 will not be the big problem. They dont have the games yet and are expensive still. However the 200 dollar x360/ps3 with really great games still comming out will be the big problem. Same with 3DS as you point out.


Thats why i think wiifitu and wii party u are important. There are similar games to mario, zelda or donkey kong on other platforms.

 

[Freezie KO]

No Mario Kart in time for the holidays was a dagger through the heart for this platform. It was already on its last breaths but there was a chance with an MK8 release in time for Xmas. An MK8 bundle with a price drop probably would have turned things around. Having that game ready should have been their #1 priority. Should have put guys from other teams onto the MK8 team to speed it up, whatever it takes.

I agree, but as a Wii U owner, I'm glad they didn't rush it out the door if it really wasn't ready.

 

[cyberheater]

I agree, but as a Wii U owner, I'm glad they didn't rush it out the door if it really wasn't ready.

As a WiiU owner. They should have dropped everything else to ensure MK was released this holiday and I mean everything.

 

[Petrae]

I agree, but as a Wii U owner, I'm glad they didn't rush it out the door if it really wasn't ready.

It's a tough decision. Who do you satisfy-- those who already invested in you or those you need to get investments from?

I'm with you. If the delay is better for the final product, do it. Perhaps the game release overlaps a slower release period for PS4/XBO and swings a bit of the spotlight Nintendo's way.

 

[dcx4610]

If anything, I hope this holiday and next year shows Nintendo that they can't rely on tired old franchises and weak gimmicks. They need new IPs and to grow as a company. They can't run Nintendo like it's 1986 and shun technology and innovation if it came from someone else.

 

[w1gglyjones]

I agree, but as a Wii U owner, I'm glad they didn't rush it out the door if it really wasn't ready.

As a WiiU owner. They should have dropped everything else to ensure MK was released this holiday and I mean everything.

It's a tough decision. Who do you satisfy-- those who already invested in you or those you need to get investments from?

I'm with you. If the delay is better for the final product, do it. Perhaps the game release overlaps a slower release period for PS4/XBO and swings a bit of the spotlight Nintendo's way.

Since there is only one per platform and this platform just came out, it would be stupid it launch it early and without polish, IMO.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I agree, but as a Wii U owner, I'm glad they didn't rush it out the door if it really wasn't ready.

Yeah, you can't rush that shit or you'll get shit.

Sometimes quality is more important than convenient sales, especially for the longterm.

Mario Kart 7 is a great game but I don't want another scenario like that.

I want Mario Kart 8 to be full of modes and features.

 

[nintendors]

As a WiiU owner. They should have dropped everything else to ensure MK was released this holiday and I mean everything.

And release what exactly in Spring 2014 ?


They will drop the price with Mario Kart 8 release...that's what I believe.

 

[Petrae]

If anything, I hope this holiday and next year shows Nintendo that they can't rely on tired old franchises and weak gimmicks. They need new IPs and to grow as a company. They can't run Nintendo like it's 1986 and shun technology and innovation if it came from someone else.

I don't know that we can blame these factors as much as Nintendo's obvious lack of preparedness when it came to software and the company's inability to properly promote and market its product.

Perhaps there's some IP fatigue in there somewhere, but I think that Mario & Zelda are IPs that still attract a lot of attention & money. As for the technical choices made for the console hardware... I've got nothin'.

 

[jmls1121]

As a WiiU owner. They should have dropped everything else to ensure MK was released this holiday and I mean everything.

Shifting from sales sales talk to game-enthusiast talk for a second, as a gamer, I am THRILLED they did not push MK8 until it was ready. Just like I am glad they didn't release a broken Pikmin 3 during the launch window.

Regarding sales, short term both decisions are bad for Nintendo short-term. But pushing out broken games or unfinished games would have been disastrous.

Nintendo's one main selling point over the competitors is consistently quality, highly-polished, inoffensive games, with no predatory DLC, ad placements or other bullshit.

If Nintendo started pulling the bullshit other publishers pull, all the while on underpowered hardware, they would be toast pretty quickly.

 

[The_Macho_King]

As a WiiU owner. They should have dropped everything else to ensure MK was released this holiday and I mean everything.

Agreed. You could've pushed both 3D World U and Donkey Kong into 2014.

Why? Well for starters, NSMBU and Luigi U may still outperform all other Wii U retail games. Secondly, they hurt the appeal of similar third-party games like Sonic and Rayman. And lastly, the only two brands that stand a chance against the next-gen hype train is Mario Kart and Smash.

 

[Waylon Drums]

Sir, you might want to sit down, because you literally have no idea what you're talking about and shouldn't state things in absolutes if you don't understand the envrionment. You quoted someone who was speaking based on factual information and injected your personal opinions into them, which all have already been discussed at length, and this moves the dialogue forward not a hair.

You're wrong. The Wii sold as much as it did because it was ostensibly the most powerful console of the prior generation. It's so obvious.

 

[Artemis-Thoth]

What games? Wii U had NSMB and ZombiU. It got Lego City in March. And that's it. The only one of those that is arguably a system seller is NSMB, and most people aren't going to buy a system just for that.

Monster Hunter was kind of a big deal too.

 

[Neff]

Wii U placates the old school action gamer (they're still around), this year particularly.

PS4/Bone, for the time being, appease the casual gaming hobbyist who basically owns hardware for that one AAA shooter franchise or sports franchise, and isn't too discerning about chasing particular peripheral franchises, they just play whatever's 'now'.

All systems will have their audiences this holiday, and all will sell well.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Shifting from sales sales talk to game-enthusiast talk for a second, as a gamer, I am THRILLED they did not push MK8 until it was ready. Just like I am glad they didn't release a broken Pikmin 3 during the launch window.

Regarding sales, short term both decisions are bad for Nintendo short-term. But pushing out broken games or unfinished games would have been disastrous.

Nintendo's one main selling point over the competitors is consistently quality, highly-polished, inoffensive games, with no predatory DLC, ad placements or other bullshit.

If Nintendo started pulling the bullshit other publishers pull, all the while on underpowered hardware, they would be toast pretty quickly.

No one's talking about pushing out unfinished games, they're talking about moving more resources towards those games so that they release earlier.

Nintendo should have done everything in their power to have Mario Kart out before Christmas. Frankly, I've got no idea what they've been doing for the past few years, it seems like they've been sitting on their hands.

 

[The Horror the horror]

I remember something Reggie said last year (or was it two years ago?) and it never went away since it was so telling about the expectations of Nintendo, or at least NOA. He said something along the lines of, "Nintendo fans are insatiable." Insatiable...meaning always wanting more; impossible to satisfy. There I was thinking, "Does this clown really think they've given us enough?" Is Nintendo actually satisfied with its output?

 

[w1gglyjones]

I remember something Reggie said last year (or was it two years ago?) and it never went away since it was so telling about the expectations of Nintendo, or at least NOA. He said something along the lines of, "Nintendo fans are insatiable." Insatiable...meaning always wanting more; impossible to satisfy. There I was thinking, "Does this clown really think they've given us enough?" Is Nintendo actually satisfied with its output?

True, but I think NCL's current messaging regarding bringing games over has been much better than NOA's in the past.