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[Zedark]

No, it doesn't make sense, because the docked mode supposedly upclocks the GPU to 2.5x the speed of the handheld mode. That should be more than enough to run games at 1080p instead of 720p (1080p equals 2.25x as many pixels to shade every frame), and yet this game struggles to even do 900p (which is only 1.56x720p). There's clearly some other bottleneck here, probably related to memory bandwidth. Which does not bode well at all for the future of this console if you hoped it would do 1080p in TV mode in many games. Seems like it will not.

Right, the memory bandwidth is what I fear could be the issue here. We know from the images of the deconstructed Switch that the RAM modules used have an inherent bandwidth of 25.6 GB/s, which is quite limited for modern games. Obviously Nintendo has a history of adding additional bandwidth solutions to the hardware, but this issue could suggest that they have not gone far enough with the modifications in that regard. Evidence for the separate optimisation is Splatoon 2, since it ran in 720p in both docked and undocked mode at the Switch Events.

Alternatively, of course, we are oversimplifying the process of developing for the two different modes (i.e. you can't just make it output at 1080p when it is 720p without optimisation due to different components than the GPU needing better optimisation for that) and Nintendo didn't spend enough time optimising the docked mode (which, in itself, is in contrast to the typical MO of Nintendo, since they are known for good optimisation).

The Digital Foundry analysis that will come down the road could give some clarity, since a third option is that the docked mode has a barrage of extra and enhanced effects enabled that make the game more taxing.

A curious case indeed...

If the Switch is considered both a home console and a portable, would that mean that the PSP-2000/3000 is also a home console and a portable since it had component out?

I mean, what does it really matter? There have been official ways to play portable games on TVs since the Super Game Boy.

I think the thing that makes the Switch special in this regard is that it improves performance significantly when docked.

 

[Alienous]

I wonder if cutting down nearby grass would result in a frame-rate improvement. Might help to diagnose what exactly the issue is.

 

[TLZ]

It's clear, playing with the Switch and Breath of the Wild for some time, that this is a portable console.

The Dock works seamlessly and it's a great value-add, but Zelda feels optimized to handheld play and my guess is most games will be, because the game has to work in both modes, so you focus on the minimum.

Nintendo can call it what they want in marketing, but it's a handheld with some additional options.

Yep. It's a tablet with a cheap plastic hub to connect to TV. I just wish they'd just called it a portable that can dual as a home console and not the other way around.

 

[Journeywalker]

Nope, it just because different lighting of day

Thanks, I should have caught that. I went back to see if there was a shot where the sun would shimmer off the grass in handheld mode, but there wasn't anything comparable. Can anyone with review copies confirm that the effect is in both modes?

 

[TLZ]

What defines a home console anyway?

This logic becomes completely flawed when you realize that a "true" console (Wii U), runs the same game at a lower resolution. Mario Kart 8 deluxe runs at 1080p/60. Apparently the majority of the announced games run @ 1080p as well.

In this day and age of "4K" and "checkerboard" talk, you have to remember that the best selling consoles around are outputting in this exact same resolution. And yes, I know that the Switch is pushing way less polygons around, but that really shouldn't be the only factor to classify it as X or Y.

Erm... Wii U is 4 years old with already old tech. Your logic is completely flawed.

 

[Hermii]

No, it doesn't make sense, because the docked mode supposedly upclocks the GPU to 2.5x the speed of the handheld mode. That should be more than enough to run games at 1080p instead of 720p (1080p equals 2.25x as many pixels to shade every frame), and yet this game struggles to even do 900p (which is only 1.56x720p). There's clearly some other bottleneck here, probably related to memory bandwidth. Which does not bode well at all for the future of this console if you hoped it would do 1080p in TV mode in many games. Seems like it will not.

They been working on the Switch version for a year (since last spring), mostly on non final devkits and this game pushes the Wii U probably more than any other game. I don't think this is a good indication for the future of the console with ground up made games.

You also got MK and Fast at flawless 1080p 60.

 

[TLZ]

The office does but, remember, I'm off-site here and don't yet have one.

Here's what we captured back in January. I didn't run the frame-rate graph the whole time simply because it was almost a locked 30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktFlmH_0CI

It looks like that same part was skipped in your video? And right before the skip it did stutter.

 

[Peltz]

If the Switch is considered both a home console and a portable, would that mean that the PSP-2000/3000 is also a home console and a portable since it had component out?

I mean, what does it really matter? There have been official ways to play portable games on TVs since the Super Game Boy.

It's home console and portable because it provides both styles of play. It has nothing to do with specs.

Unlike PSP, Switch allows you to play traditional console multiplayer using two controllers on one screen. It also allows local multiplayer 3DS-style where everyone has their own system/copy of the game/screen.

So because it allows both types of local multiplayer, it's a hybrid.

 

[mrklaw]

Has anyone tried setting the switch to 720p to see if it affects framerate?

 

[Zedark]

Has anyone tried setting the switch to 720p to see if it affects framerate?

Yes, and it doesn't. The setting is just the output res, not the render res, so it makes no difference.

 

[nynt9]

It's home console and portable because it provides both styles of play. It has nothing to do with specs.

Unlike PSP, Switch allows you to play traditional console multiplayer using two controllers on one screen. It also allows local multiplayer 3DS-style where everyone has their own system/copy of the game/screen.

So because it allows both types of local multiplayer, it's a hybrid.

There are iPad games where two people can play on one screen, either with the touchscreen or with controllers.

 

[mario_O]

I wonder if cutting down nearby grass would result in a frame-rate improvement. Might help to diagnose what exactly the issue is.

The CPU is the issue. Dense areas with more geometry, battles, or playing with the physics drops the fps. I've seen many videos, and it happens in many places.

 

[Koren]

A 720p option for TV mode should happen. Definitely prefer smoother than the slight resolution bump.

Will never happen, but I agree...

 

[Cleve]

Woof, that's framey. I hope there's a performance mode offered for a solid 30 :|

Spoiler

I know there won't be.

 

[Waji]

i actually can't see a difference and usually it's the first thing i notice. even the digitalfoundry video where it drops way down to about 20-25fps i can't see it. not sure what's going on.

i'll take the word of others that it is there. hopefully they can sort it out or let us choose to run in 720p.

I don't want to act as a over-positive person or anything but from what I know the press has no problem with it and it seems it's still pretty rare overall, if that can help you get some relief.

I'd probably more anxious if I was getting the Wii U version, it probably has stronger issues. And from what I heard it really seems to.

 

[The Futurist]

At this point, we can't really do anything.

I've come to terms with this console and most people should have as well.

This has the power of a $200 device (shield tv) with an extra $100 for the accessories. That's the amount of power it has. It is never going to have games comparable graphically to PS4 or Xbox One.

If you can live with that, great. If not, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Boney]

There's no option for 720 on tv?

 

[Karspankey]

There's no option for 720 on tv?

There is! You can even set it to 480p.

 

[Boney]

There is! You can even set it to 480p.

Haha just saw above that it doesn't make a difference. Would be a quick band aid fix for tv play for people who want the smoother frame rate, it's still 30 so it's not so bad.

Not getting a switch though so Wii u for me.

 

[n0razi]

900p and 20fps on a flagship console... What year is it?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

That has to be a bug. Makes no sense.

Why would it make no sense? The GPU isn't doing anything extra when the system in docked and the handheld mode runs at a lower resolution, making it less taxing on the hardware.

 

[mrklaw]

900p and 20fps on a flagship console... What year is it?

There are Xbox one games that run at 720p. It's all about balance. You can make any console run 60fps or 10fps.

 

[jts]

900p and 20fps on a flagship console... What year is it?

The year when it's finally possible to run a new AAA flagship EDGE 10 game on portable hardware at 900p 20fps.

 

[EhrgeizVII]

Wow, you'd think the handheld version would be the one chugging... This is great news for me because I'll mostly play handheld mode!

 

[jett]

Why would it make no sense? The GPU isn't doing anything extra when the system in docked and the handheld mode runs at a lower resolution, making it less taxing on the hardware.

Based on reports from Digital Foundry and so forth the GPU is twice as powerful when docked. The stuttering in the video almost looks random to be honest.

 

[n0razi]

If the Wii U version runs at a locked 30fps, then I won't have a reason to get a Switch anytime soon.

 

[The Futurist]

900p and 20fps on a flagship console... What year is it?

People lost their shit when the xbox one was playing games at 900p in 2013.

Here we are in 2017 and Nintendo gives us a console that is struggling day one at 900p30 in docked mode.

Like I said before, everyone needs to come to terms with this device.

The year when it's finally possible to run a new AAA flagship EDGE 10 game on portable hardware at 900p 20fps.

I was waiting for the guy to come in and defend 900p 20 fps in 2017. And look at that, a switch for an profile picture.

Clearly Zelda is pushing all sorts of graphical boundaries... Art style aside, it's probably the least technically impressive launch title for any console in history.

 

[jts]

People lost their shit when the xbox one was playing games at 900p in 2013.

Here we are in 2017 and Nintendo gives us a console that is struggling day one at 900p30 in docked mode.

Like I said before, everyone needs to come to terms with this device.

So 4 years after XB1, which is a full on home games console, a portable console seems to almost reach it?

Sounds awesome.

 

[mario_O]

The year when it's finally possible to run a new AAA flagship EDGE 10 game on portable hardware at 900p 20fps.

you say it like it's a good thing. maybe they should target 30fps first.

 

[Osiris]

So 4 years after XB1, which is a full on home games console, a portable console seems to almost reach it?

Sounds awesome.

Sounds Nintendo, TBH.

 

[jon bones]

So 4 years after XB1, which is a full on home games console, a portable console seems to almost reach it?

Sounds awesome.

yeah, fitting this in a tablet is insanely impressive. maybe people need to see the device next to their consoles and PCs to "get it"

you say it like it's a good thing. maybe they should target 30fps first.

they did, it apparently runs 720p solid 30 in handheld mode

 

[The Futurist]

So 4 years after XB1, which is a full on home games console, a portable console seems to almost reach it?

Sounds awesome.

Seems to almost reach it?

You really don't know what you're talking about?

Come back here when the switch can run something that looks like Ryse at 900p30 and we can talk.

Or even battlefield 4 at 720 between 40-50 fps.


There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of many of these people rushing in to defend the power of this thing.

Handheld mode is fine. No one is really complaining about that. Yeah, it's probably fine power for a handheld. It's got the power of a $200 tablet. Great.

The issue is docked mode and the entire idea behind this console. Docked mode should have offered more since this is clearly marketed as both a home console and a handheld. Every single piece of marketing shows this thing being played on a tv first and then picked up and taken with you.

The dock simply upclocking the gpu is not enough. It should have been more.

 

[mario_O]

they did, it apparently runs 720p solid 30 in handheld mode

i thought it was clear we were all talking about tv mode here.

 

[funkystudent]

Something I am noticing now and I am supersized it didnt come to me before.


Kinda bummed HUD doesn't scale a little when changing between handheld and TV.

One of my major niggles with the Vita was HUDs designed for 40 inch TV's on a super small screen and thus being hard to read without focusing really hard on them.

Minor issue to most but my eyes are shot.

 

[Hoo-doo]

So 4 years after XB1, which is a full on home games console, a portable console seems to almost reach it?

Sounds awesome.

Christ, don't be this intentionally disingenuous. The Switch is capable enough, but let's not act like it's reaching XB1 in any way, shape or form.

 

[Steiner]

The beginning hill, for whatever reason, is one of the only spots you guys will notice any frame drops. My own experience playing docked has been very smooth, and when drops occur, they're in VERY specific, repeatable places with certain elements on screen.

As someone who absolutely refuses to go back to Bloodborne because of the frame rate inconsistencies, let me assure you that this is not an issue in Breath of the Wild.

That said, those very few spots that will slow the camera down while docked don't seem to pose a problem at all while playing in handheld mode.

Trust me though, you guys will love this in both modes. Please try not to linger on this as a major issue. The fact that most of you don't have the actual game in your hands is unfortunate because it just gives you time to wonder how bad this might be, and I'm afraid some of you will spend your beginning hours watching carefully for frame rate inconsistencies instead of enjoying this game to its fullest.

Don't let that happen. You have an incredible experience coming your way in six days.

 

[czk]

So is the game 30fps with occasionally drops to 20s or mostly 20s in the dock mode?

EDIT:

The beginning hill, for whatever reason, is one of the only spots you guys will notice any frame drops. My own experience playing docked has been very smooth, and when drops occur, they're in VERY specific, repeatable places with certain elements on screen.

As someone who absolutely refuses to go back to Bloodborne because of the frame rate inconsistencies, let me assure you that this is not an issue in Breath of the Wild.

That said, those very few spots that will slow the camera down while docked don't seem to pose a problem at all while playing in handheld mode.

Trust me though, you guys will love this in both modes. Please try not to linger on this as a major issue. The fact that most of you don't have the actual game in your hands is unfortunate because it just gives you time to wonder how bad this might be, and I'm afraid some of you will spend your beginning hours watching carefully for frame rate inconsistencies instead of enjoying this game to its fullest.

Don't let that happen. You have an incredible experience coming your way in six days.

Come on dude, stop making sense.

 

[RichiRamjag]

The beginning hill, for whatever reason, is one of the only spots you guys will notice any frame drops. My own experience playing docked has been very smooth, and when drops occur, they're in VERY specific, repeatable places with certain elements on screen.

As someone who absolutely refuses to go back to Bloodborne because of the frame rate inconsistencies, let me assure you that this is not an issue in Breath of the Wild.

That said, those very few spots that will slow the camera down while docked don't seem to pose a problem at all while playing in handheld mode.

Trust me though, you guys will love this in both modes. Please try not to linger on this as a major issue. The fact that most of you don't have the actual game in your hands is unfortunate because it just gives you time to wonder how bad this might be, and I'm afraid some of you will spend your beginning hours watching carefully for frame rate inconsistencies instead of enjoying this game to its fullest.

Don't let that happen. You have an incredible experience coming your way in six days.

You may as well ask some of these people not to breathe. Once the panic train gets moving, it don't stop. I was initially worried, but then read a bunch of statements by people who have it saying the same thing (that it's mainly the first area, then very infrequent), but the concern has spread and people are still going to bug the hell out.

 

[cgcg]

what resolution does the handheld mode run at? even with the tiny comparison screens, it looks super blurry.

 

[Otnopolit]

So is the game 30fps with occasionally drops to 20s or mostly 20s in the dock mode?

EDIT:

Come on dude, stop making sense.

Burn the Witch!!

Thank you for your rationality rooted in actual EXPERIENCE playing the game docked and undocked. We are clearly all going mental here.

 

[jts]

Christ, don't be this intentionally disingenuous. The Switch is capable enough, but let's not act like it's reaching XB1 in any way, shape or form.

It was not me who brought up the XB1. I was replying to an intentionally disingenuous post that was framing as a bad thing that the Switch is struggling to hit a framerate and resolution performance level (disregarding everything else - again, it wasn't me who did it) that the XB1 was criticized for hitting in 2013... which really, is not too long ago, and full-on home hardware.

To be able to even to graze that kind of performance with mobile hardware that fits in a compact tablet which in turn can even fit (sans controllers) in a pocket and at any rate can be taken and played anywhere, is a considerably remarkable feat and testament to hardware evolution, so bringing up that kind of comparison is indeed flattering for the Switch.

 

[ordrin]

this machine seems really weak if it, even when docked, it hasnt got the power to push through any poor optimization.

the differences between the docked and undocked version look minimal at best and yet it runs like shit.

so much for the upclock.
it does not bode well at all for other games being run in docked mode. which mine exclusively will be.

yet another reason (along with joycon problems) to reconsider my preorder.

all i need to know now is if the wii u version runs exactly the same as the undocked switch version and ill 'switch' to the wii u botw.

 

[ksamedi]

So what do people expect from the Switch? Do we expect it to be on par with PS4 or Xbox 1? Lets not forget that this is a tiny machine compared to those boxes. Its jam packed with the latest tech but everyone needs to keep their expectations in check for what a gaming tablet can do for this price. I think a lot of ports will happen and run good on Switch and it is a very capable machine but dont expect games to look and run amazing from day 1. There will be compromises.

 

[KingSnake]

Come on dude, stop making sense.

Man, I can't wait for this ridiculous kind of comment to go out of fashion. It's never less stupid or pointless.

 

[Hermii]

So what do people expect from the Switch? Do we expect it to be on par with PS4 or Xbox 1? Lets not forget that this is a tiny machine compared to those boxes. Its jam packed with the latest tech but everyone needs to keep their expectations in check for what a gaming tablet can do for this price. I think a lot of ports will happen and run good on Switch and it is a very capable machine but dont expect games to look and run amazing from day 1. There will be compromises.

I expect it to most likely have a 20nm X1 from 2015, which is not that amazing by mobile tech standards.

But lets not make this into a tech thread.

 

[jon bones]

So what do people expect from the Switch? Do we expect it to be on par with PS4 or Xbox 1? Lets not forget that this is a tiny machine compared to those boxes. Its jam packed with the latest tech but everyone needs to keep their expectations in check for what a gaming tablet can do for this price. I think a lot of ports will happen and run good on Switch and it is a very capable machine but dont expect games to look and run amazing from day 1. There will be compromises.

I expect Wii U 1st party level graphics in 720 @ locked 60 fps (for non open world) or 30 (for open world games) in a system I can play on the L train. which - to me - is a dream come true.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I expect Wii U 1st party level graphics in 720 @ locked 60 fps (for non open world) or 30 (for open world games) in a system I can play on the L train. which - to me - is a dream come true.

I've still never played those galaxy games.

 

[Manoko]

The year when it's finally possible to run a new AAA flagship EDGE 10 game on portable hardware at 900p 20fps.

"900p 20fps".

Well, quite a few years too early evidently.

I wish the Switch was a traditionnal home console, we would have had awesome performance, while waiting an additionnal generation for the mobile chips industry to allow less compromises.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

If the Wii U version runs at a locked 30fps, then I won't have a reason to get a Switch anytime soon.

Edge review, see post #380 in that thread, says Wii U version has worse drops down into the teens during heavy events like severe weather. Says the drops seldom happen when it affects battles etc though.

I'll just wait for more impressions of both versions before deciding whether to get the Wii U version or maybe get a Switch earlier than planned if that versions has fewer drops.

what resolution does the handheld mode run at? even with the tiny comparison screens, it looks super blurry.

720p. Which is native as it's a 720 screen.

 

[jon bones]

I do enjoy that over the past couple of months, people keep jumping between "Well, it's a handheld" and "Well, it's a console" depending on what suits them best.

it's almost as though different people view things differently 🤔