Super_Cobra
Member
Most of those deaths are cartel members themselves. Why on earth would you want that trash still living?
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'Gang members' admit killing over 40 missing Mexico students
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Most of those deaths are cartel members themselves. Why on earth would you want that trash still living?
AnathemicOne
Banned
Deaths are still deaths? Don't act/think so naive.
I've never been to any city as murderous as Atlanta, Washington D.C., Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans, Cleveland, Buffalo, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Boston or Miami. But it's amusing reading these comments, I guessMexico is a small, homogeneous warzone, yup.
I understand what you are trying to say but even when the US has some "dangerous" places, they arent anything like Mexico. There is gun violence here and everywhere in the world but you read these stories from Mexico and its on a whole new level of macabre disgusting violence.
I honestly wonder if some of these posters are just like super proud of their nation and wont admit to the atrocities that happen there or are far right wing party members. Dont get me wrong, you can have your opinions here and anywhere on the internet but its ridiculous to be like "yea this is like nothing in real life, its safer than the US ahahahaha!". I know there are tons of bad areas in the US, there is still racism in alot of states etc but you dont see people down playing that shit. Its real and happening just like all this fucked up shit is happening in Mexico.
@Rm88~: I think what Im getting at is the level of fucked up shit that happens to individuals in Mexico. Never heard of 40 people missing in the US or how they were burn in a ditch and their ashes dumped in a river. The level of insane shit is like only found in Mexico. You cant deny that.
I don't know if I would equate everyday murders or shootings to town mayors giving up buses of students to be killed by cartels.
Those cities I mentioned have a higher murder rate than mine.
http://howsafeismexico.com/compare_mexico_us_cities.html
http://www.movehub.com/blog/worlds-safest-cities
So what I said is accurate - I've never been to any city as murderous as those.
Super_Cobra
Member
How am I naive. Please explain.
CadetMahoney
Member
AnathemicOne
Banned
I would rather you have engaged in critical thinking, but whatever.
1) The post you quoted has nothing to do with "wishing the cartel members still alive" to which you have accused. The reading comprehension is real.
2) Deaths are still deaths meaning loss of human life. Even if the number of deaths grossing over the amount of casualties during the Vietnam War had the majority consisting of cartel members, there are still deaths of those not on the side of cartels and/or opposing them.
80000 people dead in a drug war over a 8 year period and 20000 missing and you never hear about it outside of GAF?
Wow. Cartel is doing an excellent job of keeping these massacres quiet.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I haven't really thought about any of this since like at least a year ago, that's what I meant.
I live in Monterrey and it's probably one of the best states, so I guess that's the reason.
I guess that's why this just happened:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/more-than-100000-march-in-mexico-city-over-disappeared-students/5412506
He means he doesn't encounter those events in daily life.
Do you know that the death toll includes pretty much all murders that has happened in Mexico in that time? Yes, is high and we should do everything in our power to lower it, but is not comparable to Vietnam war or whatever. The situations aren't comparable. Even in the USA thousands of people get murdered every year...
Indeed, they are.
If they go through such lengths to hunt down twitter posters, just imagine how easy it might be for them to "dissuade" professional local news from covering their doings.
Is not that easy. And the Guerreros Unidos cartel is pretty destroyed already, btw.
SilentRacoon
Member
That's why it will never get legalized, I know it wouldn't solve all problems but it sure would be a hell of a start.
Get the fuck out of here with that logic, the roots of the problem go much more deeper than that, many didn't got involved with cartels out of will, some were kids with no much options left in their lives, or had their parents killed as many other have in this crazy bloodbath, leaving them aimless and suceptible to what these cartels have to offer, to be part of something, they are desperate and forced by the system to make it their lifestyle.
So yeah great solution there, just let them kill between themselves, cartels will eventually run out of people right?
pretty damn sure the people don't want to get blown the fuck up by drones. we've all seen how precise u.s drone striking has been in other countries.
The Mexican state, and society in general, have the legal and moral obligation to stop the murders and bring the murderers to justice, not matter if the victims were criminal themselves. That much is true.
However, Is very important to contextualize the nature of the conflict, which is a social security one, since people jump to conclusions and start making parallels to Afghanistan, Iraq and even the Vietnam wars... Just look at what people here are asking for. What is the USA army going to do, start bombing weddings like they do in Pakistan and Yemen?
Super_Cobra
Member
Ok you win. Poor innocent lives. Damn Mexico you scary. 80k?
There's no front lines, there's no opposing standing army with political demands. There's no held territory, there's no attacks to army or federal personal guerrilla style. There's no opposing army garrisons that could be a target for an air strike or artillery. I don't see how is a war.
En serio no sabías de los chavos de Ayotzinapa!?
I used to live in Monterrrey until Janurary 2013, but shit got pretty damn brutal in the State of Nuevo Leon from 2010-2013 or so. Majors, heads of Police, civilians getting kidnapped and murdered, hanged bodies, shootings between rival criminal groups and the police and / or the army. I myself was abducted. Wouldn´t go back at all.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
The idea of 80,000 deaths and 20,000 missing already amounting to a potential 100,000 people mostly be just cartels sounds absurd into itself.
And_Gignac
Member
You are being down right ignorant and offensive tbh.
Air strikes? Lmao. This violent war savior complex is infuriating.
So, they are mostly army members? Police officers? Note: stop thinking about massive gun battles or kidnappings. Most of those deaths are murders.
Royal Guacamole
Member
While it is true that organized crime and their government cipher are very active in media manipulation, that has nothing to do with him ignoring news out of a personal decision.
If anything, I think it's playing out on the posts of other users who are not very well informed (although I'm not pinning any blame) in the current state of the country.
Note that tax payers still pay for the electricity, gas and running water. They hold territory via corruption of local elected and/or appointed officials, which will say that they hold their allegiance to the Mexican law and state when asked. Very different from real war like in northern Iraq and ISIS.
I was being ridiculous and insensitive so Im sorry for that. I dont actually believe the US should go about doing that but Mexico needs help and if its not from the US, from the international community. Mexico pretends it doesnt need help but who is Mexico? Is it the people not wanting any help for real or the corrupt officials of the cartels wanting to avoid any outside intervention from ending their reign in the area?
AnathemicOne
Banned
I never condoned airstrikes or US intervention. And I aplogize if I've no desire to enter Mexico, not sure how that is offensive. Preferences y'know, just that my preferences are built from stories like the one linked in the OP.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
That's sort of what I meant, whether these numbers are cartels, soldiers, police, civilian or what not, the numbers are crazy to me in general. 100,000 people, is terrifying. Most other countries those numbers sound like a civil war.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
There is no single painful enough death for these fucking cunts.....
How the International community can help Mexico:
- Stop the distribution of illegal drugs on their area, crackdown all the money laundry and cartels assets (including personal) within their jurisdiction.
- Stop buying illegal timber, oil and metals from the cartels. (I'm looking at you, China) or prosecute the buyers.
- Crack down on Cartel weapons suppliers (this is directed mostly to the USA).
- Stop being so petty with the sale of weapons and intelligence tech to the Mexican government (Specially USA and Germany).
A change of the global financial system that really help the bulk of the world population instead of the financial elites would be good, but I know that's asking too much atm. Military intervention is the last of the list and would do way more harm than good.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Evil_Silver
Banned
The scary part is, this isn't even humans at there worst.
Royal Guacamole
Member
Hm? I would have agreed with that sentiment when the crazy manhunts and shootouts were erupting left and right but not anymore.
If you have a basic guide of the do's and do not's, common sense will take care of the rest of your safety. The city's aight when it comes to the night life, but you're missing out on some delicious joints and restaurants if you don't make the trip.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Been out of the loop but I remember a while back that they were trying to make having a gram of any kind of drug legal in Mexico but the Mexican govt got pressure from the US to not go through with. The "Amsterdam" of the west is what they were calling it. That was in the early 2000s from what I remember anyway.
Edit: later than I thought.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/world/americas/21mexico.html
Edit: later than I thought.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/world/americas/21mexico.html
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Oh man I remember when I first heard about this not long ago. I almost wept at the original news story of the students going missing. So sad.
"Well I am living a great life inside this 10 km radius, and I don't care about what is happening outside that "
Living under a rock, it seems?
SliceSabre
Banned
Holy fucking shit.
That's shit I expect hear about some ISIS terrorists in the middle east doing. Not Mexican gang members.
That's shit I expect hear about some ISIS terrorists in the middle east doing. Not Mexican gang members.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Yes I'm sure those air strikes would only hit cartel members and somehow fix the underlying issues causing this.
Is it 2001 again? Jesus.
Yeah... and we know how crime reporting goes in a corrupt state like Mexico.
Evidently we're a country that can't solve its drug cartels problem. The police is corrupt and/or innefficient and politicians only search benefits for themselves.
That said, I'm pretty sure that the population in general would be very hostile to a armed intervention from the US. For several reasons
It's a shame that this is the way that people think about Mexico. As gruesome and horrible as these news are, most people never experience nothing remotely similar to this type of violence.
I think the bolded is the best thing the US could do to help.
I think it's too late. The cartels won't dissapear if there is no more illegal drugs being sold. They've already "branched out" to other illegal activities. (for example, farming oil ducts).
Yep, Mauricio seems to live under a rock. I mean, I'm angry that some posters are talking like these horrible news are a common ocurrence that happens just about anywhere and anytime in mexico, when that's really, really far from the thruth.
But you can't deny that there is a big narco problem in my country and once in a while everybody worries about the drug cartels and the awful things they do. And you can't live in Monterrey and just say that it doesn't happen there.
ChainedMaster
Banned
D
Deleted member 309291
Unconfirmed Member
Was my country invaded and I didn't even know? You learn new things every day.
Also, mind explaining the effects of USA's help to Colombia?
I hear you, I live in Tijuana and its also a pretty relaxing life here, no diferent from a place like Los Angeles. There is bad places and good places and I'm sure not to go to the dangerous places.
My parents live in Guerrero, I'm actually going to visit this weekend and I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. People seem to forget that Mexico is a huge place and most acts of violence happens in either farmland, jungle or deserts. The problem really is corruption and most violence happens between the same corrupt people, it rarely affect people outside that circle, but it does happen some times, but its increidibly rare and mostly in the south of the country or on Chihuaha.
And to the all the people who say Tijuana is a shithole. Yes it is, the same way Los Angeles is a shithole, don't go to Tijuana to drink and bet, the place is manufactured to rip you off. But if you come to unwind and relax and have a nice time the place is great.
So, lets say the cartels go for your brother/father/daughter/etc they take it from you at gun point, and they threaten him/her that if they don't work for the cartel they will kill all her/his family. Are you really calling that person trash?
Because tons of people working for the cartels are because of this very reason, the cartels are composed by plenty of horrible people, but if you think almost 100 thousand people missing or dead are because they are "trash" you are simply, awfully wrong.
To all saying Mexico needs help, read this and discuss:
According to the UNs World Drug Report 2014, the US is the top cocaine consumer in the world accounting for ~36% of the shared global demand as of 2012. Mexico is the main and only terrestrial pass-through country in which cocaine traffics from Bolivia, Colombia and other cocaine-producing countries to the US.
While the amount (measured as tons) of seized cannabis herbs reached ~1300 in Mexico and ~2100 in the US, seized cocaine reached 104.3 in the US but only 3.4 in Mexico. This means that a much higher proportion of cocaine compared to cannabis that traffics through Mexico reaches its final destination. Theres something fishy here.
Where there is demand for a product, there is money. Making it illegal turns it into a horrid and corrupt business (think of the alcohol prohibition in the 20s) and Mexico is to blame for the 5 million active cocaine consumers across the border (Mexico has a tenth of that). Is making cocaine legal that terrible? I dont know the answer but the current handling is not working.
More:
http://www.unodc.org/wdr2014/
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-analysis/WDR-2010.html
http://qz.com/5058/brazil-now-consumes-18-of-worlds-cocaine/
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/drug-trafficking/
According to the UNs World Drug Report 2014, the US is the top cocaine consumer in the world accounting for ~36% of the shared global demand as of 2012. Mexico is the main and only terrestrial pass-through country in which cocaine traffics from Bolivia, Colombia and other cocaine-producing countries to the US.
While the amount (measured as tons) of seized cannabis herbs reached ~1300 in Mexico and ~2100 in the US, seized cocaine reached 104.3 in the US but only 3.4 in Mexico. This means that a much higher proportion of cocaine compared to cannabis that traffics through Mexico reaches its final destination. Theres something fishy here.
Where there is demand for a product, there is money. Making it illegal turns it into a horrid and corrupt business (think of the alcohol prohibition in the 20s) and Mexico is to blame for the 5 million active cocaine consumers across the border (Mexico has a tenth of that). Is making cocaine legal that terrible? I dont know the answer but the current handling is not working.
More:
http://www.unodc.org/wdr2014/
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-analysis/WDR-2010.html
http://qz.com/5058/brazil-now-consumes-18-of-worlds-cocaine/
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/drug-trafficking/
NoctisVsStar
Member
Mexico is too crazy, zero disregard for human life.
Edit: I meant the cartels not the wonderful people of that country viva Mexico carajo!
Edit: I meant the cartels not the wonderful people of that country viva Mexico carajo!
Is a initiative aimed at "combating" Colombian drug cartels but mostly left-wing insurgent groups in Colombian territory. They provide aid and training from the U.S., were involved in supporting or tolerating abuses by right-wing paramilitary forces against left-wing guerrilla organizations and their sympathizers. Also includes the fumigation with chemicals indiscreetly which damage and destroy legal crops and and has adverse health effects.
The point is, Colombia is still producing LARGE quantities of cocaine with all that "help" to erradicate drugs, while the Colombian government is mostly a puppet regime of the USA. Really makes you wonder if the coca business is tolerated by both and using the war on drugs just as a pretext, there's a shit load of money involved to being ignored. Which really makes you think why this drug in particular is so prevalent in high places like Holywood and Wall Street.
i don't really want my country to be like Colombia.
For me is more crazy that your neighbor can shot you just for triying to give his mail that got missplaced in your house, or by being black/brown.
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