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Gay people adopting - NeoGafs thoughts on the issue?
- Thread starter Dunpeal
- Start date
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Pretty weak stuff; no child ever gets to choose their parents. Biological parents raising their own offspring inflict all kinds of bullshit on them, and it's totally legal. And I know the children bear the scars - I've dated what turned out to be some of the crazy ****ing results.
Only in the case of adoption does society have the chance to impose a value system before the parent gets to expose a child to such things. It's pretty dicey and only marginally effective in preventing harm to require certain lifestyle choices be in place before an adoption, but not impose any kind of restrictions for creating another human being in the first place. In the end, as many people point out, the more you tie such requirements to subjective ideas about sin, fetishes, et al, the more likely it is that you aren't narrowing the field effectively. Objective measures are far better: a certain income situation and a good housing situation being the most paramount. The most offensive scenario to my value system is a child going without care because of an illogical, subjective value system being imposed upon the adoption process. There is no sexual behavior - including furries, excluding pedophilia - that would cause me to think twice about allowing an adoption.
Just because I don't think that furries generally have the psychological stability/maturity to be parents doesn't mean I would support taking away their rights. The details of implementing such a restriction would be ludicrous in the first place. I am only interested in root issues here; the furry issue is a red herring. Potential adopters fitting a healthy psychological profile is such a good idea that they actually already do that. Potential adopters having to answer "have you ever thought you were a "naughty otter who likes adventure?"" is probably not as effective.Fenrir said:
terrene said:
Yes but you are against it. If you could you would prevent them from being able to adopt.
As you see my opinion is the same, therefore my argument is only as weak as yours. Obviously i can't do anything to prevent it if the society deems it legal, if its legal it becomes a right, like free speech.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
How is having homosexual parents less acceptable than living in a family with a single parent as a result of adultery on the part of one of the parents? Adultery would be FAR FAR more scarring.
Just because they weren't put into this family after the fact, it remains acceptable, as terrene said.
Just because they weren't put into this family after the fact, it remains acceptable, as terrene said.
Dangerous Porno Pipeline said:
But how does such an argument hold up?
For it to happen, a child leaving with a single parent as a result of adultery and therefore separation, one thing must be true. It's their son/daughter, it's theirs, they put that life out here, so they have the right to claim it. Let's disregard the fact that people fall in love again, new marriages happen, and the child does not have to be kept away from either of the parents permanently. And other factors like, in the case of adultery, the blame is on one of the parents not both, etc
It's completely unfeasible to compare those two scenarios and create an argument that one is not any worse than the other, when in one of them no one has the right to claim the child.
terrene said:
Well you contradict yourself, as in the last page you have a picture where you say exactly that. So you now changed ideas, that's good, means that you reckon you can be wrong as do i, and that universal truth is very tricky.
I think as cool as it sounds to say "Let's get these kids a home, let's disregard Society morals, as long as the child will be loved and taken good care of", it's more easier said than done and very trick.
By disregarding society morals we disregard the foundation and beliefs in which any given society was built upon. Each society may have a different culture, praise a different God, and thereby having different morals. Yet we are not afraid to say our society is better than his, our morals are more just, our laws more human, yet what brought us such were our ancestors that believed in what they believed. It was them believing in this god and not that god that allowed use to live in such a good society, yet now we are not afraid to say that certain aspects of our society is wrong, we defy the morals that just yesterday we were defending, and argue what makes a sin a sin, and question the law of God, and when what we love and want to defend is not supported by this Society God we stop recognizing him as our God.
We will always do what we can do to defend our rights, our battle to win the rights that we want to have. It's human nature.
How can you be Gay and believe in this society's God, and then question the opinion of others, when your own defies the opinion of many more. Simply you put yourself in a higher ground than the rest of us, that's the only way to do it, to believe others are wrong so that you are right.
It's equal for all things.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Unless you die and have no one left to take care of them, I don't think gays specifically want to adopt your children.Dunpeal said:
Criminals aren't in jail for acting immoral, they're in jail for acting illegal.Dunpeal said:
Whoa, now you're treading on Punky Brewster.Dunpeal said:
Mercury Fred said:
Good lord.
As someone said in another thread...you are either 100% cool with, there's nothing wrong with, I celebrate with you in your difference towards homosexuality...or else you are a genocidal, nazi-concentration-camp, jack-booted bigot.
Grow up, and get over yourself kid. No one is interested in your OMG I WILL CALL OUT ALL INJUSTICE AND BIGOTRY WHEREVER IT EXISTS schtick. You remind me of religious wackos wandering around and praying demons out of bushes. Guess what, IT AINT THERE. I could care less if you are gay. Or black. Or Mexican. Or Asian. Or straight. Or whatever.
titiklabingapat
Member
Anyone mention that alot of gay couples also adopt alot of the "undesireables" - HIV positive kids, older kids, kids of a certain color(it depends on what is fashionable that season - anything other than white is popular these days), retarded kids, etc? Would you rather them rot in the system than get adopted by a bunch of ***s?
also, since gay epople are more well off than the average, the kids actually do better because of all that resources.
also, since gay epople are more well off than the average, the kids actually do better because of all that resources.
Lemming_JRS
Member
Dunpeal said:
:lol
Dude, you're entitled to your opinion and all, but you realize that you just contradicted yourself, right?
Like it's sung in the Jarvis Cocker song "Running the World":
In theory, I respect your right to exist;
I'll kill ya if you move in next to me.
Outcast2004
Banned
worldrunover said:
...there is no such thing.
Lemming_JRS said:
Really? It's either 8 or 80? You are either Fully tolerant or not tolerant at all?
Wow. That's a kind of limited perspective on the word tolerant. You can be more tolerant and less tolerant. I'm tolerant towards homosexuals, just not 100% tolerant. I tolerate certain aspects, certain rights, but not others.
There's a difference. It's not by trying to rundown an argument to an extreme or to the other that you will be able to prove it is wrong when the argument was not meant to sit on one extreme of the situation.
titiklabingapat
Member
Dunpeal said:
Basically, yes. Anything short of equal treatment is intolerance in my book. You are specifically being intolerant of those certain things because of the fact that homosexuals are doing it, or at the very least, are associated with homosexuals for the most part.
Drinky Crow
Banned
when did we start taking furries seriously?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Drinky Crow said:
When people started equating them to being as legitimate a group as homosexuals...so uh, never?
I can't believe we're trying to say that furries and homosexuals are equal. This is ****ing sad.
Not allowing couples to adopt based on sexual orientation is ridiculous. What we should be doing is finding a way to restrict people from having children until they can pass a series of competency tests, not unlike acquiring a driver's license, only make it much stricter. IMO that would solve a lot of problems. Of course people would never go for it for obvious religious and philosophical reasons...
Drinky Crow
Banned
homosexuality is almost indisputably genetic, and has existed since man (well, seriously, mammals in general) first discovered that any hole will do, really, and it's double-plus nice if the receiving end is warm and responsive. bonus points if it dresses smart, to boot.
furrydom has only existed since the disney afternoon gave a bunch of lonely latchkey kids their first erections, and they decided that their sublimated feelings of alienation and exclusion were best buried beneath an overt expression of extreme individuality and sexual identity, of which only an arbitrarily anthropomorphized animal avatar would truly suffice. bonus points if the other, er, "fursona" on the receiving end will let you mario party with him/her afterwards.
furrydom has only existed since the disney afternoon gave a bunch of lonely latchkey kids their first erections, and they decided that their sublimated feelings of alienation and exclusion were best buried beneath an overt expression of extreme individuality and sexual identity, of which only an arbitrarily anthropomorphized animal avatar would truly suffice. bonus points if the other, er, "fursona" on the receiving end will let you mario party with him/her afterwards.
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
I'm admittedly a bit leery on homosexuals parenting a child, but I think that's just remnants of a close-minded past where I assumed being gay was a choice and that it was all icky and stuff. (We're talking junior high stuff, here).
However...what's the alternative? I'd much rather a child be raised by two loving men/women that would treat the child well than a lesser, straight family who's just using the kid as a tax break or whatever.
Gay, straight or whatever...a good parent is a good parent. As long as they don't try to force their sexual orientation onto them (just like a straight parent shouldn't force a gay child into thinking they're inferior because of their sexual preference) I don't see a problem.
A loving family gets a child. A child gets a home. Everyone wins.
Then again...all else being equal, I can't help but admit I'd rather a child be raised by a loving straight family than a loving homosexual one. Call me a bigot or whatever...I can't help but lean this way.
However...what's the alternative? I'd much rather a child be raised by two loving men/women that would treat the child well than a lesser, straight family who's just using the kid as a tax break or whatever.
Gay, straight or whatever...a good parent is a good parent. As long as they don't try to force their sexual orientation onto them (just like a straight parent shouldn't force a gay child into thinking they're inferior because of their sexual preference) I don't see a problem.
A loving family gets a child. A child gets a home. Everyone wins.
Then again...all else being equal, I can't help but admit I'd rather a child be raised by a loving straight family than a loving homosexual one. Call me a bigot or whatever...I can't help but lean this way.
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
Drinky Crow said:
:lol :lol :lol
sublime085
Member
and Star Fox of courseY2Kevbug11 said:
Drinky Crow
Banned
i should point out that despite my fursecuting words i have no real problem with furries adopting kids. their ability to parent is completely separate from their ****ed up and pathetic sex hobby.
It's called a joke, smart guy. I was being intentionally rude because of your intolerant attitude. Trolling a bit, because I look down on people with furry characters for avatars who say things like "dudes taking it up the ass is unnatural." I dropped that when it whooshed over your head. I wasn't addressing you with the pic of the fur parade; forgive me for confusing you once again.Dunpeal said:
Er, I'm not really saying this, so you might as well shut u... oh, god, you wrote more...
Gee, I think I've discovered your mental blockage here. You think our society has decided on a "God," and you don't want society's laws to "question the law of God," or cause us to "stop recognizing him as our God," etc. Let's just... leave that, and take a step back.
All that we can truly ask of these adoption agencies is that they put forth a good faith effort to perform individual evaluations of applicants to make a case-by-case decision. This should include a review of, again, their credit, income and living situation, their psychological profile, their criminal history, and just a personal impression. In my opinion it is shameless demagogy to attempt to further ostracize and divide people on highly subjective impressions of a group of people, and unspeakably immoral and offensive to curtail their rights based on those subjective impressions. Enshrining prejudice in law is regressive and indefensable in modern society.
I would suspect the real reason you have a problem with homosexuals adopting is that you don't want them to "pass on their gayness" because you find it icky. I think that because there are no qualitative statements you can make that would take their parental suitability away from them en masse. Statistically, gay people are more well-educated and have higher incomes than the mean, which goes a loooong way with my comfort level.
See page 17-18 in this PDF, published in March 2007: http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/publications/FinalAdoptionReport.pdf
Yeah, sounds "****ed up," as you so eloquently put it in the OP.
Drinky Crow
Banned
given that masturbation -- onanism for you red state scholars -- is a perversion in the eyes of the old testament god, can we start stoning gaffers to death now
Drinky Crow said:
Grains of truth, and I've been a furry for longer than I would care to admit. But the sexualization of animal forms has been around for a pretty long time too, just read any Greek myth and you'll find tales of gods turning into swans and getting laid by hot Earth babes.
Drinky Crow
Banned
yeah, but the greek stuff et al was largely rape and bestiality fanfic -- it almost always involved a human female and a god-turned-animal.
hey, really, i ain't arguing that people aren't or shouldn't be (consenting) perverts -- just call a spade a spade. being a "furry" isn't an enlightened condition, nor is it a special expression of individuality first and foremost. no, it's a sublimation and manifestation of sexual desire and identity tied to a specific psychological need or issue, like bdsm or getting pooped on. thanks to the internet and the furry community, though, many furries have taken it beyond a merely disturbing sexual fetish and have also tried to pretend it is a lifestyle, since that jives with their fantasy life even more. **** that!
homosexuals did not ask your cruel christian god to make them like folks of the same gender. furrydom remains a wholly psychological issue, and one that in some cases, if the root causes go unanalyzed or incorrectly scrutinized, could manifest in ways that ARE harmful to others. not sayin' that a fursuit leads a man into dangerous waters necessarily, but if you're a furry, you better know DAMN well why you chose to be one, and "man baloo on talespin sure was hot" doesn't count.
hey, really, i ain't arguing that people aren't or shouldn't be (consenting) perverts -- just call a spade a spade. being a "furry" isn't an enlightened condition, nor is it a special expression of individuality first and foremost. no, it's a sublimation and manifestation of sexual desire and identity tied to a specific psychological need or issue, like bdsm or getting pooped on. thanks to the internet and the furry community, though, many furries have taken it beyond a merely disturbing sexual fetish and have also tried to pretend it is a lifestyle, since that jives with their fantasy life even more. **** that!
homosexuals did not ask your cruel christian god to make them like folks of the same gender. furrydom remains a wholly psychological issue, and one that in some cases, if the root causes go unanalyzed or incorrectly scrutinized, could manifest in ways that ARE harmful to others. not sayin' that a fursuit leads a man into dangerous waters necessarily, but if you're a furry, you better know DAMN well why you chose to be one, and "man baloo on talespin sure was hot" doesn't count.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
While some (most?) homosexuality is probably genetic (or at least from birth), I'm sure there are forms of gay that are just as much "meme twisting" as with furries.
Basically there are nature gays, and there are nurture gays....
Basically there are nature gays, and there are nurture gays....
Drinky Crow
Banned
oh, i know plenty of "nurture homosexuals" -- guys who found intimacy with women unfulfilling or frustrating, but actually had largely hetero tendencies (and vice versa among "nurture heterosexuals") -- and i'll likewise never argue that human beings are 100% hetero -or- homo. it's a broad spectrum of desire, but chances are, you have an innate sexual preference that leads you in your mating dance.
i don't typically make other folks' sexual peccadilloes a point of contest, just 'cuz i don't care WHAT you **** as long as said WHAT is cool on the whole thang, but furries really are a special case thanks to their rampant internet advocacy and demand for special treatment. at least the crowd who likes to get tied up with a riding crop crammed up their bumbum has a sense of shame about them, although i think that's kinda their whole, er, business in the first place. that's a joke, you humorless furry ****s.
i don't typically make other folks' sexual peccadilloes a point of contest, just 'cuz i don't care WHAT you **** as long as said WHAT is cool on the whole thang, but furries really are a special case thanks to their rampant internet advocacy and demand for special treatment. at least the crowd who likes to get tied up with a riding crop crammed up their bumbum has a sense of shame about them, although i think that's kinda their whole, er, business in the first place. that's a joke, you humorless furry ****s.
you know, I always wondered why this has become a critical issue in natinoal politics.
there are so few gay people to begin with. There even fewer who are in a stable long term relationship. Only some of those couples are actually interested in adopting.
I just don't see why anyone cares enough to actually have a law against it. The number of adoptions by gay couples is still going to be extremely small.
It shouldn't be ignored by any means, but I would rather have there be stronger focus on reducing costs of education and healthcare than teh gays. Perhaps it's just that our time to be ground through the media machine has come, which is good I guess.
I actually feel this with a lot of gay people.
there are so few gay people to begin with. There even fewer who are in a stable long term relationship. Only some of those couples are actually interested in adopting.
I just don't see why anyone cares enough to actually have a law against it. The number of adoptions by gay couples is still going to be extremely small.
It shouldn't be ignored by any means, but I would rather have there be stronger focus on reducing costs of education and healthcare than teh gays. Perhaps it's just that our time to be ground through the media machine has come, which is good I guess.
I actually feel this with a lot of gay people.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
yea true. There's a difference between the "experimented in college crew" and "the boy who never wanted to see tits at all"Drinky Crow said:
Drinky Crow
Banned
sonarrat: the furry's dexter!
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Drinky Crow said:
:lol
brilliant.
dunpeal, you're an idiot.
sublime085
Member
I think he called you a serial killer, but not in a bad waysonarrat said:
You have some serious issues, Drinky Crow. So just because furries go around having fun on the internet, claiming to be furs, you automatically have the right to spew your shit all over them? What's worse? You, or people who get off by pooping on eachother? I'd say drunken raging idiots who spew their shit all over forums just because they don't have anything else they can do all day long. **** YOU, Drinky. Rott in ****ing hell with your hateful ways.Drinky Crow said:
Is this shit so bad? :lol
sublime085
Member
lol furries!
onegoodlogan
Member
WELL THAT'S NOT WHAT I EXPECTED WHEN I CLICKED ON THIS THREAD.
EDIT: Thank you White Man, praise White Jesus.
I guess that's what I get for coming in here to make a snide comment about how I think all adoption is wrong and kids should be forced to fend for themselves in the wild.
EDIT: Thank you White Man, praise White Jesus.
I guess that's what I get for coming in here to make a snide comment about how I think all adoption is wrong and kids should be forced to fend for themselves in the wild.
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