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Gaza clashes: Dozens killed ahead of US embassy opening in Jerusalem
- Thread starter llien
- Start date
1/10
Spheyr
Banned
Yet another spam post, good job
Children are one thing, but to say there are innocent adults "caught" in the middle seems like a stretch unless you can show they were injured in their homes, yards, places of business, etc. Short of that, it seems to me that any adult who ends up in the middle actually put themselves there, will full knowledge that they were standing side by side with people intending to inflict violence and who they knew would be on the receiving end of more powerful return fire. I can understand being sympathetic to their general plight because no one asked to be born there, but to suggest they thought they were going to a peaceful protest and ended up inadvertently in a battle zone does not come across as a legitimate argument to me.
TTOOLL
Member
Israel is a developed country in the middle of nothing. Congrats to them. Palestine people should worry about improving their lives and move on instead of insisting in this war that they can't win, also, Hamas is a terrorist organization, you wanna negotiate with them?
Stop blaming other people for your failure.
Stop blaming other people for your failure.
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Yes it most certainly is based on how things are going in NK. Enough with the bull crap - none of this blood is on US hands. The US opening an embassy does not logically require peaceful people to storm a different country's defense force.
cryptoadam
Banned
There have been probably close to 100000 people who have taken part in these riots over the last weeks, probably more. approx 100 have been killed, which in due time we will find out 70-80% had links to terrorist groups. We already know about 80% of the previous killed were linked to terrorist.
So the overwhelming majority of people who stayed away from the fence and weren't violent didn't get injured or killed. Its not hard for me to believe that the percentage that did were rioting or in proximity of the riots. I don't want anyone to get hurt but if you send women and children to a violent riot where smokescreens (burning tires) are specifically set up to obscure the view of the IDF things will happen. If anyone in the IDF broke the rules of engagement they should be censured by the IDF.
But Gazan's could of done the same "protests" in Gaza city away from the IDF and border and suffered nothings. Instead they chose to attack the border and put themselves in harms way.
Unknown Quantity
Member
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Some really warped perspectives in this thread. Israeli snipers have been killing and crippling protesters (targeting knees and pelvis to cause permanent disabilities) near the barrier for weeks and some of you are talking like it's the israeli army that are the victims. How many israeli soldiers have been wounded or killed? It was none the last I heard.
And then there is shit like this.
HAMAS are using these people as shields they do not fucking care about them. ALso thsi was NEVER a peaceful protest
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cryptoadam
Banned
Morphed, stole, reappropriated, whatever fits your narrative bruh.
What does this BS map have to do with anything? We are talking about Gaza unless you are trying to imply Gaza was all of Palestine?
Notice how your map leaves out Jordan which was part of "Palestine" until it was chopped off by the British in 1922.
Here is a map from 1937 that the Arabs could of accepted to create a state.
Here is a map of UN partition plan.
a map of Jordan between 49 and 67.
These are all maps of what could of been Palestine that the Arabs rejected. If Arabs weren't rejected every and any offer of peace they would have their own much LARGER state. But each rejection and act of aggression comes with consequences.
I am still waiting for Jordan to be held responsible for rendering WB Arabs stateless when it stripped them of their citizenship in 1988.
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Air Zombie Meat
Member
What is that footage supposed to prove to me? Fact is one side has been being killed and crippled for weeks and the other hasn't taken any casualties at all and you're expecting me to shed tears for the soldiers safely sniping people approaching a fence. HAMAS might not care about them but why don't you? Try to think about who has all the power and control in this situation.
No I am telling you that many people who got shot also could be total propaganda. Like when the IS tells that the airstirke hit an hospital etc.
This was never a peaceful protest and if you join this violence you are not as innocent as some people make you believe. Are there innocent casulties? Yeah probably but it was not the massacre people want other people make believe. How about we agree that both sides did shitty things but the Hamas started the vilence and are responsible for many of these casulties.
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cryptoadam
Banned
So I guess you would be happy if some Israelis died? If the bombs, rockes, molotovs, arson kite bombs killed people?
The power and control is in the hands of Gazan's to stay away from the fence. Whats the point of attacking the fence over and over again? Why can't they "protest" in Gaza city away from the IDF and the fence?
Over 100 000 people have protested and the overwhelming majority aren't dead or injured. Should Israel just let them storm and destroy the fence and walk over to the communties less than a mile away? So as they can in Hamas words rip out the heart of the Jews?
Air Zombie Meat
Member
What I am saying is the level of force used is disproportionate and excessive and the casualty figures prove it. They're using live ammo on unarmed people approaching a fence. Sometimes the people shot aren't even close to the fence. Press have been shot, children have been shot. Just because they said they were going to do it beforehand doesn't make it acceptable.
But it is acceptable that the hamas are using these people? The Hamas knew exactly what will go down and they calculated this as well. They do not care about anything being shot or dying.. They are using this to justify their terrorism and jewish genocide.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Hamas are able to do what they do because of the legitimate grievances palestinians have. Why should I be expected to give a free pass to everything israeli soldiers do because of Hamas? There are israelis that want to see the palestinians completely wiped out too. The difference is that they vote for Netanyahu instead of Hamas.
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TheShadowLord
Member
I agree with you that both sides are shitty and that this doesn't help the situation and as Hamas are using them as pawns rather the Palensteins like them or not. But I do have to agree with air zombie that the IDF could have used non lethal stuff, like flash bangs, tear gas and smoke grenades. On the other hand, it might not be possible at this state.
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On the topic of caring for the Palestinian people, IMO the most compassionate and humane thing the world could do for them, would be simply telling the Palestinians that they are not getting their land back, and the current borders / control over Jerusalem are what they are. Accept it and the world continues providing aide while negotiations resume on the remaining issues. Refuse to accept it and they are on their own. Anything short of "this is how it is", and we continue giving them false hope while they continue to live under awful conditions and get no where. It's not about picking sides. Its about accepting reality and moving on 70 or 51 years later depending on your reference point. All these prior talks, all these prior negotiations, and what have they gotten? Absolutely nothing if they are willing to bring their children to a militarized area where they know violence will bring out.
Perhaps its a better topic for a different thread, but what exactly do all the so called experts and allegedly unbiased UN people hope to realistically achieve when they criticize Trump's recognition of Israel's claim to Jerusalem? 70 more years of talks while several generations live entire lives in abject poverty with no hope of a normal life (by Western standards)?
cryptoadam
Banned
Pallywood and Hamas propaganda. Don't believe what Hamas/Pals say.
Ask yourself how many of the images you see are real and how many are staged for the cameras.
Kadayi
Banned
Jez Dunki are you so locked into your forum crusade against Muslims that you're incapable of delineating between ISIS and Hamas? They aren't all one and the same.
I'm not a big fan of religion as a whole, least of all those that advocate mutilating the genitals of their children, but I'm at least capable of parsing between different entities and factions within.
Get your fucking facts right in future.
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Air Zombie Meat
Member
Still failing to see how that video proves anything. I've seen plenty of footage of people being shot far away from the fence while doing nothing to provoke it. Anyway for people so concerned with propaganda you guys seem to hit a lot of the hasbara talking points: https://mailchi.mp/act-il/support-il Perhaps you should cast a critical eye over your own claims as well?
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Vicetrailia
Member
Or could be a propagandist staging it. I wouldn't base my perceptions off that video.
The “F”???
I guess someone better phone the NKs and tell them get comfortable with a crappy dictator of Syrians to enjoy a few more years of civil war. I’m all against intervention unless necessary but the answer to recognized injustices that not even the international community agrees with isn’t just to say “deal with it”.
I mean shouldn’t America just get use to idea of letting illegal immigrants stay since the status queue would be the most human and compassionate thing to do?
cryptoadam
Banned
Share the footage please.
Again Gaza Minstry of Health = Hamas.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12178/hamas-press-office
Hamas is informing its journalists in Gaza to present only one sided propaganda.
- srael has the right and the duty to defend itself and its citizens! Hamas organized the riots with public announcement that the goal is to kidnap Israeli soldiers, and to march into and burn Israeli villages. Imagine that picture. Imagine what would be the results for both sides waking up to this reality.
- The way Hamas gets the masses to the fence is not by popularity, but by paying $100 to poor families, instead of providing them with work.
- The youth is used by Hamas to cover up armed terrorist units that tried to infiltrate the fence into Israeli villages. The Hamas terror organization is using its civilians as human shields. Hamas is willing to sacrifice the lives and security of its own innocent civilians for propaganda purposes.
- Israel fully disengaged from the Gaza strip in 2005. The riots conducted are taking place on an international border of Israel. What would your country do if an enemy entity would send terrorists and fire towards your borders and your civilians?
TTOOLL
Member
"hey guys, let's work, concentrate on developing our land and while we are at it let's start talking to our neighbors and find a solution that is good enough for us since we are the weak side"
How hard is it? How come living in poverty and be at war at the same time wins over what I stated above??
I'm pretty sure Palestinians and Hamas leaders are rich as fuck btw.
How hard is it? How come living in poverty and be at war at the same time wins over what I stated above??
I'm pretty sure Palestinians and Hamas leaders are rich as fuck btw.
cryptoadam
Banned
https://forward.com/opinion/400384/the-left-only-cares-about-palestinians-when-it-can-blame-israel/
Interesting article.
While thousands have died at Assads (and Iranians and other Palestinians) hands. 100 000 ethnically cleansed from their homes not a peep from the world. I haven't seen any "Pro-Palestinians" mention or talk about it at all. No words from Hamas or Abbas.
I guess when you don't have Hamas packaging easy to digest propaganda for you, and to get the story you need to go to a dangerous warzone its not newsworthy.
The reactions are very contrasting. Israel defending its border from violent rioters for 4 weeks straight gets lots of F Israel and UN condemnations. But Assad killing thousands of Palestinians doesn't even get a mention.
Just like with Jordan. It can render WB Arabs stateless, create an apartheid regime between East Bankers and West Bankers, kill 10 000 in Black September but the left never seems to mention Jordan.
Interesting article.
While thousands have died at Assads (and Iranians and other Palestinians) hands. 100 000 ethnically cleansed from their homes not a peep from the world. I haven't seen any "Pro-Palestinians" mention or talk about it at all. No words from Hamas or Abbas.
I guess when you don't have Hamas packaging easy to digest propaganda for you, and to get the story you need to go to a dangerous warzone its not newsworthy.
The reactions are very contrasting. Israel defending its border from violent rioters for 4 weeks straight gets lots of F Israel and UN condemnations. But Assad killing thousands of Palestinians doesn't even get a mention.
Just like with Jordan. It can render WB Arabs stateless, create an apartheid regime between East Bankers and West Bankers, kill 10 000 in Black September but the left never seems to mention Jordan.
First one is about IS and the propaganda video is about the Hamas which shows 3-5 year olds with rifles as well. Also let us not be so naive to believe the Hamas is different than any other terror organisation.
A lot of questionable posts in this thread.
This was entirely avoidable. U.S do not need an embassy there, its symbolic and only resulted in the loss of lives. No matter the actions of the protesters, the blood is on the hands of Trump and his ilk that decided this move. No country that I can think of recommended this as a good idea, in fact many warned it was a bad idea. If regular people can see this causing bloodshed, then it makes you question where are the leader's brains.
Spheyr
Banned
How is it on Trump? He simply followed the law passed in 1995 that'd been kicked down the road for 23 years, and he didn't force anyone to become violent, they did it on their own.
Because it was unnecessary and as I said earlier... very predictable. U.S has riots too, and it would be big time news if U.S soldiers/police started sniping unarmed people. No matter how you slice this, this is almost equivalent to Assad's crackdown on protesters in Syria. The only difference so far is the number of dead and that Palestinians have no hope of fighting back.
I am for Israel and the 2 state solution, but it is clear under the current leadership, Israel has no intention of trying to make it better there. Also with U.S blocking any and all condemnations (except certain resolutions under Obama) of Israel and moving it's embassy despite knowing the consequences (and for literally NO reason), it shows U.S has no desire to make peace there either.
Mohonky
Member
Some of you seem to have a special kind of cognitive dissonance to not see the obvious in this situation.
Kadayi
Banned
Again ISIS and Hamas are polar opposites, so why post the ISIS article? It's completely irrelevant. It's like someone asking you to post evidence of atrocities in Sudan and linking to an article about atrocities in the Congo. As for Hamas training kids how to use guns, where is the actual evidence of these Kindergarten ninjas in action in Palestine?
llien
Member
It's called "ethnic cleansing". You don't morph "territory", but demographic.
Territories marked red were grabbed by Israel from Palestinians (this doesn't include Golan Heights, grabbed from Syria):
Hamas was founded in 1987.
Yeah, merely announced:
NETANYAHU ANNOUNCES PLANS FOR FIRST NEW WEST BANK SETTLEMENT IN 25 YEARS
And not to have illusions about "new settlements":
The announcement came less than 24 hours after Israel announced the advancement and/or authorization of 3,000 homes in other settlements.
So, while "new settlements" weren't created in the past, existing ones kept expanding.
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HagglesworthMD
Member
It's called "ethnic cleansing". You don't morph "territory", but demographic.
Territories marked red were grabbed by Israel from Palestinians (this doesn't include Golan Heights, grabbed from Syria):
Hamas was founded in 1987.
Yeah, merely announced:
NETANYAHU ANNOUNCES PLANS FOR FIRST NEW WEST BANK SETTLEMENT IN 25 YEARS
And not to have illusions about "new settlements":
The announcement came less than 24 hours after Israel announced the advancement and/or authorization of 3,000 homes in other settlements.
So, while "new settlements" weren't created in the past, existing ones kept expanding.
Great news, hopefully Israel keeps on expanding.
Kadayi
Banned
What's great about Ethnic Cleansing exactly?
HagglesworthMD
Member
I said expanding, not cleansing.
Both are terror organisations and one is NOT better than the other. And have you even watched the video? In this you can clearly see it. You can even hear a children song in which a little 5 year old girl watches her Mother putting on explosives instead of holding her. In the end the mother dies during a suicide attack and the girl sings that she will follow her mothers footsteps.
llien
Member
Hamas is certainly better than ISIS, to a point that EU was hesitant to call it a "terrorist" organization as it has a strong social service wing which can't be blamed for misdoings.
Mind boggling argument.
What % of the local population of "chopped Palestine, now Jordan" had to leave homes?
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The EU is also not calling the Iran a terror state so what the weak EU says does not really matter IMO. But have you seen the video? How is this better? They have TV statations which spread this stuff to families....
llien
Member
No, as it would prove nothing anyhow.
MisterFalcon
Member
Grabbed when the Palestians and all the other Arab armies started a war with the intent of grabbing everything. Did Poland and Russia grab East Prussia from Germany and should terror attacks to reclaim these territories be considered legitimate ?
HagglesworthMD
Member
Hamas indoctrinate young children to kill as many Jews as they can, if that's not a terrorist organisation I don't know what is.
HagglesworthMD
Member
It's almost as if Israel is surrounded by countries hell bent on exterminating them off the face of the planet.
Maybe the solution is that the Jews just accept that killing Jews is just part of Muslim culture and accept them with open arms!
llien
Member
No, actually, not at all. Israel has started that war, claiming arab countries "planned to attack".
I'm still not quite following, even if that were the case, and even if arabs started the war, how does it justify ethnic cleansing/land grabbing which is going on even today?
Why does East Jerusalem belong to Israel?
MisterFalcon
Member
The 1948 war was started by the Arab nations. For the 1967 one there was a clear threat from Egypt who ordered the UN out, massed their army on the border and closed the sea access from the Red Sea, an act of war. And while Israel opened hostilities in the Sinai it was Jordan who attacked Israel from the West Bank in 1967. Nasser lied to King Hussein that Egypt was winning the war and he should attack before Egypt had taken all of Israel. Of course this was complete bullshit (much like Hamas saying to Gazans just this week the border fence was breached and they were streaming into Israel) and led to the West Bank being taken by Israel, something they had not planned to do.
East Jerusalem was supposed to be part of the Palestinian state in the 1948 plan but Jordan annexed it immediately which was accepted by the PLO in 1964. With Jordan renouncing their claim in their peace treaty with Israel only Israel's claim remains.
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