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GDC '08: LucasArts prioritizing PS3, Unleashing Force
- Thread starter ZeroTolerance
- Start date
Agent Icebeezy
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Ynos Yrros said:
Sony's developers, on the whole, are better technically than Microsoft's There are 3rd party games on the 360 that are clearly better looking than Microsoft first party, that should never happen. It happens when people try to take their tools from yesteryear and bring them to this generation.
Look at Too Human. I wouldn't consider Silicon Knights to be a technical powerhouse, but they have a lot of bells and whistles due to having to do their own engine, while making use of the 360. I don't see Sony has better, I see Microsoft underachieving on the visuals front in most respects. However, Rare will show why they are the best in due time.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
That might be it. I would rather put my faith into Epic or Lionhead instead of Rare thoughAgent Icebeezy said:
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oldergamer
Member
RavenFox said:
Actually the PS3 is not an order of a magnitude more powerful. That was simply marketing speak. The CPU is more powerful then 360's CPU, however it's much harder to reach that peak potential. The 360 CPU is easier to code for, but it has better real world performance.
The GPU in the PS3 how a lower overall fill rate and polygon throughput rate compared to the 360 GPU. An easy argument could be made that the wash in the CPU power (on paper vrs real world) and the difference in GPU performance ( on paper vrs real world) that the 360 has a slight advantage. (in real world performance)
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Ynos Yrros said:That might be it. I would rather put my faith into Epic or Lionhead instead of Rare though
Maybe Epic, I'm not going with Lionhead. The guy from Rare that was at GDC is supposed to be really good and a major proponent of their new engine there. Banjo is supposed to be running on it. Rare should be fine.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
I'm just hoping that they learned how to properly use shaders by now. It seems that they went crazy after discovering parallax mapping.Agent Icebeezy said:
Lionhead seems to really join tech and art style extremely well. If Fable 2 on X360 will look as good as Fable on XBox, I think that it will be a contender for best graphics on the system.
Doc Evils said:
No. Specially not HS, unless you play cut scenes.
But i won't debate this, Ps3 fans and their exclusives, even going as far as comparing uncharted to crysis so i'm not gonna spend the next couple of hours here trying to argue something that isn't worthy, in the end, whatever makes you sleep at night says i.
Death Dealer
Member
oldergamer said:
Death Dealer said:
...
Doc Evils said:
Ok, sucky framerate, low poly enemies, kinda crappy texturing, some of the special effects suck (like water, specially when that female boss was trowing waves at you, omg, what a shitty effect that was).
Obviously, everything suddenly looks much better in cut scenes, but you don't play them, and they are pre rendered.
WrikaWrek said:
Low frame rate ok.
Low poly enemies wtf? I can name you a big well known game that has far worse looking human enemies and that doesn't pump out a few hundred enemies HS does on screen.
Kinda crappy textures? Some of the cutscenes are real time, which can be seen before the wave battle thing you mentioned and they look amazing.
If you want, you can ask some of the NT devs that post here, but I'm sure you know more than them.
WoWcraft said:
When all else fails make shit up.
Doc Evils said:
I finished the game. And standard enemies look like lowly detailed. And dude, it's very impressing to put a thousand enemies on screen when they are dumb as shit, and are low detail, yes very impressive...
Look it's easy, HS wasn't nominated by either DICE awards or GDC, it's normally only in lists of Ps3 fans.
Look i remember Ps3 fans trying to convince everybody that Resistance looked better than gears of war, i was never big on graphics talk as i had to put with alot of shit from Xbox fanboys on how Xbox graphics were so superior to Ps2, but you know what? Fact is they were, so little could i say.
This gen? All i see is people seeing what they want to see. I don't like these kind of discussions, to me Assassins Creed and Uncharted are the best looking games so far, though we are already seeing games that push it further imo, and in all honestly? Debating graphics tech is so useless, it was last gen and it's even more this gen.
I just really found Raven's comment really funny, and then i made the mistake of adding another comment. I'm sorry, consider this a hit and run if you will, but truth is, there's no end to this discussion.
nelsonroyale
Member
WrikaWrek said:
you haven't played the game......
Ive played lots of games on ps3 and 360... and it is easily one of the most impressive games on either system...the last battle alone is flat out incredible graphically...
You seem to go on about ps3 fans, but isnt that a little ironic given you clearly have your own bias...?
Also, 3rd party games haven't been the most impressive this gen....in the top games, AC is the only one that comes to mind.... DMC4 is around as well, but there are quite a few above it
SolidSnakex
Member
scoobs said:
It's not funny when they screw up skate as bad as they did. Hopefully skate 2 is a huge improvement.
SolidSnakex said:
What was wrong with Skate?
(Ps. I also find it funny that if a version has a lower framerate or anything other thing slightly worse on the Ps3, then the port is garbage, but if those "issues" are on the 360 then suddenly it's a port well done...)
JB1981 said:
Kate Beckinsale.
nelsonroyale said:
Ok, i guess developers don't know shit, neither at GDC nor at DICE. Ok, let's just leave it at that.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Why are people still arguing with wrikawrek?
SolidSnakex
Member
WrikaWrek said:
It has really bad framerate issues, the image quality is horrible, the textures are washed out ect.
Ynos Yrros said:
Yeah i don't understand, i just don't bring this
Ynos Yrros said:
quality of opinion to GAF.
JB1981 said:
I'll get you a FIx, check p.m in a couple of minutes.
SolidSnakex said:
That sucks, but E.A is doing the same thing, changing to PS3 first right? I thought i had read something like that.
Not really. More resources were spent on COD4 for PS3, yet ended up looking up slightly better on the 360. VF5 and BurnoutRavenFox said:
were ported from the PS3 yet looked almost exactly the same as the PS3 versions. This wouldn't have been possible if the PS3 was an order more powerful. If anything, the games themselves showed far greater evidence of the 360 being the moer powerful system. Optimization or not, so many of the multiplatform games are so much poorer on the PS3 that there's no way that it has significantly more power than the 360.SolidSnakex
Member
WrikaWrek said:
I'm not sure, they might be though. You should really try the skate demo on the PS3 and 360 (assuming you haven't played the full game yet), the difference between the 2 is pretty shocking.
SolidSnakex
Member
Z3F said:Not really. More resources were spent on COD4 for PS3, yet ended up looking up slightly better on the 360. VF5 and Burnout
If you listen to pretty much any developer this gen developing multiplatform games their goal is for them to both look the same. SO even if one system is much stronger than the other you wouldn't be able to tell by those games because the developers aren't trying to tap either system for their full potential.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
You're the one to be giving the advice.Z3F said:
I never claimed that I'm not biased, so you didn't burn me much.
SolidSnakex said:
Yeah, but the fact that they completely fail to do so with 360 to PS3 but almost always suceed with PS3 to 360 isn't exactly a strong argument for the PS3 being a significantly more powerful argument. I mean, the gaps in quality between many PS3 and 360 multiplatform games are bigger than they were, when the Xbox was the obviously more powerful system.
Imo, I think that both systems are basically equal in power, with the 360 having the advantage of being easier to program for. I just don't get how someone can conclude that the PS3 is an order more powerful from the evidence that is presented. The argument always go back to exclusives but it's hard to learn anything when you don't have the same people working on the same games.
Ynos Yrros said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. Why did you bring it up if you admit to being biased? No one is going to listen to the pot calling the kettle black.
Mikewarrior
Banned
BigBoss said:
There is more to a game than graphics alone (Think size & scope/A.I./fps/# of characters on screen/special effects/physics, etc.)
Ignorance is one who doesn't see past the pretty graphics alone that is set on a very linier path in a short single playing only game.
Lion Heart
Banned
BigBoss said:
Did they seriously do that?? LOL *shakes head*
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Things like polycount or texture res, or amount of dynamic shadows are accountable.Z3F said:
BigBoss said:
At Dice, Uncharted was one of the nominees for Outstanding Achievement in Visual Engineering. At GDC, Uncharted was nominated for Best Visual Art. Uncharted wasn't nominated for Best Technology but that categoy doesn't seem to be just for tech achievement in graphics, since Portal was also nominated in that category.
Z3F said:Not really. More resources were spent on COD4 for PS3, yet ended up looking up slightly better on the 360. VF5 and Burnout
Comparing third party games on two systems when trying to show what each console is capable of is just not smart, IMO.
First party games have clearly shown that the PS3 can crank out those graphics.
Ynos Yrros said:
We don't really know things like those either though. Polycount is especially deceptive. Poor modeling can make a higher poly model look far worse. PC games, for example, used to suffer from that in the past.
Also, one reason why people have been so impressed by Uncharted's tech is that their deveopers have been very open about discussing things like that with fans. Would people have been just as impressed by Bioshock if their devs have done the same thing? I think it's likely. Wrika makes a good point that industry people don't seem to be as impressed by Uncharted technically as people at GAF.
kbear
Banned
When I look at exclusive games like Killzone 2, Uncharted and Gran Turismo 5, I can't help but think that. Maybe not an "order more powerful", but absolutely more power under the hood than the 360 -- it's just more difficult to get to, as has been stated so many times by devs across the industry.Z3F said:
Z3F, you're commenting on multi-platform games, which is not a wise comparison. Take a look at PS3's exclusives instead.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Again, this is because the development on these games focused on a single platform. For a multiplatform project, several PS3-specific methods aren't optimal at all because they don't work well on the other consoles, and multiplatform development isn't really a concern for Sony first party devs obviously. I've heard this echoed by several engineers who sat in on PS3 GDC talks this past week.TheBranca18 said:
Ynos Yrros
Banned
I was thinking about GT5 actually.Z3F said:
I don't agree that it's the developers that hyped up Uncharted's graphics. People were being sceptic about it's graphics up till the very end of development.
SolidSnakex
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
But that's exactly the point people are making when they say the true judge of what the PS3 is capable of is what you see in exclusives. That doesn't mean multiplatform titles can't look great, because many do, but exclusives have the benefit of the developers only having to worry about how well it'll run on 1 platform.
Mikewarrior
Banned
BigBoss said:
Now I may be mistaken, but I don't believe Gears is a single playing only game & at the time of GDC in 2007, what other games could compete with Gears?
kbear said:
But based on what I've seen, I don't think that Uncharted or GT5 is impossible on the 360. Killzone2, maybe but we've yet to see Gears yet. In every gen so far, the more powerful system like the Snes or Xbox, has always had the best multiplatform ports and all of a sudden, we're supposed to believe that's not how things work. The PS3 is most powerful argument just doesn't make sense based on the years of knowledge that we have. It makes more sense that the PS3 simply isn't as powerful as people think it its. After all, despite the one year later advantage, the PS3 doesn't have more ram or a more advanced GPU than the 360. The only clear advantage is a Blu-ray drive, which doesn't do anything for graphics. I still think the PS3 should waited for the BD prices to drop so that they could have included a Geforce 8 and some extra ram for the same price, or they could have just left out BD.