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[Feichaw]

Shoot 'em up and beat 'em up are certainly dying. If wasn't for Dragon's Crown, the latter would be a thing of the past right now.

 

[Hyperzephyrian]

That's the point. Are you agreeing with me or what?

I was disagreeing with you. You called them stealth games (as opposed to "the genre," but I'm not sure what you meant by that). They aren't.

So you are saying, you would rather the game just end, and say 'game over' or what?

No. Instant failure states aren't good design for stealth games. Good stealth games are designed so that, when you're caught, there's a small window of opportunity where you can defeat a small number of enemies or run away. It's an "improvisational state," which is sort of like a partial failure state, in that it's punishing but won't always result in a game over.

Actually that's not the same thing because it isn't happening to the shooter genre. It IS happening as we speak to the RPG and stealth genres though -- which is what this thread is about: genres that are dying.

I was taking exception to your claim that we "don't need the stealth genre anymore." Action games with optional sneaking do not fill the same niche as stealth games. They aren't designed in the same way. (For the record, I do like both types of game, but for different reasons.) I was using shooting and conversation mechanics as an analogy, to show you how ridiculous it is to treat the watered-down inclusion of optional mechanics as some kind of replacement for the genres in which those mechanics originated.

 

[Tain]

.

This... doesn't look nearly as dope as the genre's greats.

 

[Irishmantis]

In some way isn't Moba an evolution of RTS?

Don't know much about Moba's but they seem to strike a lot of similarities from an outside eye

 

[The Incarnation]

Tennis games. Completely and utterly dead.

 

[Ogimachi]

Sandbox MMORPGs have been dying a slow death.

 

[Vex_]

I was disagreeing with you. You called them stealth games (as opposed to "the genre," but I'm not sure what you meant by that). They aren't.

No. Instant failure states aren't good design for stealth games. Good stealth games are designed so that, when you're caught, there's a small window of opportunity where you can defeat a small number of enemies or run away. It's an "improvisational state," which is sort of like a partial failure state, in that it's punishing but won't always result in a game over.

I was taking exception to your claim that we "don't need the stealth genre anymore." Action games with optional sneaking do not fill the same niche as stealth games. They aren't designed in the same way. (For the record, I do like both types of game, but for different reasons.) I was using shooting and conversation mechanics as an analogy, to show you how ridiculous it is to treat the watered-down inclusion of optional mechanics as some kind of replacement for the genres in which those mechanics originated.

Then you misunderstood. I never said they were stealth games. Now you're confusing ME.

The point was that they weren't stealth games, but "absorbed" the stealth genre's core elements. I was saying there is no need for a genre strictly dedicated to stealth games only since those games I've listed do them well enough. They also punish you well enough with heightened enemy alertness, or overwhelming enemy numbers.

I then listed thief as a stealth only game that was awful.


Anyways...

The rest of your post I agree with:

-Instant failure states suck
-And maybe we do need the stealth genre to make a return.


I just don't see it happening is all.

 

[SamusPrime]

I wish some indie would revive Final Fight style beat 'em ups. I always wanted one that took it to the next level with destructive environments, more in-depths moves and so on. Vendetta was so cool in that respect but I'm sure it cohld be taken even further now.

 

[SonyToo!™]

I wish some indie would revive Final Fight style beat 'em ups. I always wanted one that took it to the next level with destructive environments, more in-depths moves and so on. Vendetta was so cool in that respect but I'm sure it cohld be taken even further now.

It's not so much the next level of the genre but Open BOR (Open Beats Of Rage) is the beat em up equivalent of MUGEN where ppl take the animated sprites of arcade brawlers and fighters and create their own games.

 

[Valnen]

I wish some indie would revive Final Fight style beat 'em ups. I always wanted one that took it to the next level with destructive environments, more in-depths moves and so on. Vendetta was so cool in that respect but I'm sure it cohld be taken even further now.

I actually feel like the gameplay in beat em ups should stay relatively simple. It's a part of their fun, IMO.

 

[Z..]

+1

I'm so damn happy; SE is single-handedly saving that entire genre.

Wa?

 

[The Lone Courier]

Thanks to licensing deals sports games lost lots of momentum.

 

[Theognosis]

Thanks to licensing deals sports games lost lots of momentum.

Yes, sports games are on life support. All we have now are just repackaged programs of the past years. The original retail builds for X360/PS3/PC of NBA 2K, FIFA, Madden and NHL could have easily been patched on a yearly basis and we'll have updated rosters and animations without purchasing essentially the same games over and over again.

But hey, people are still buying and we love our favorite teams so it doesn't matter. I can't wait for NBA 2K16 with MJ on the cover! (After the hype, buyer's remorse will sink in yet again.)

Lightgun games are also going extinct because of the lag inherent in today's LCD displays that makes moving the aiming reticle and pulling the gun trigger feel sluggish and frustrating. It can't compare with the feeling of lightgun games on a CRT which is instantaneous. It's so fast and intuitive that I could hit 5 small moving targets in 1 second at Saturn Virtua Cop's shooting practice mode.

Other dead genres are tactical 3D fighting, LAN-based FPS, combat flight simulator and 2D RTS.

 

[davepoobond]

Not a one. Indies' got you covered.

yeah, all those indie RTS games those one-man studios are scrambling to build

 

[duckroll]

In some way isn't Moba an evolution of RTS?

Don't know much about Moba's but they seem to strike a lot of similarities from an outside eye

That's like saying fighting games are an evolution of beat em ups. It's not really comparable. They share similarities in gameplay roots, but provide totally different experiences for players.

 

[Rad-]

Higher budget JRPGs are still on the decline when comparing to SNES/PS1/PS2 era.

 

[fedexpeon]

Volleyball?
If we don't count DOA, I haven't see one in ages.
Heck, they aren't even on TV anymore.

 

[Theognosis]

In some way isn't Moba an evolution of RTS?

Don't know much about Moba's but they seem to strike a lot of similarities from an outside eye

MOBA is the devolution or dumbing-down of the RTS genre.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Real-time Strategy.
Starcraft 2 is the only competitive one left and it's on it's way out eventually.

Good one! I would kil for a new rise of nations type game.

 

[SparkTR]

Space sims. When Star Citizen proves to be a failure on its promises, the genre is finito.

When there's two other big space sims in the market as well, Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky, there's a whole lot more chance for growth than for decline I'd say.

 

[Jotamide]

Sadly, 2 of my favorite genres: shmups and rhythm games are not what they used to be.

 

[SparkTR]

This thread always goes the same way. PC gamers go deep for some obscure games list and they "disprove" they aren't dying. Sorry I ain't using my PC for anything but work.

That a sign of a healthy platform with a diverse library of games, friend. Your loss.

 

[void_if_removed]

Futuristic high speed hover car racing games.

RIP Wipeout :'(

 

[roytheone]

All those RTS answers make me sad. PC gaming has greatly increased in popularity the last couple of years, you would think this would help with a RTS renaissance of some kind.

 

[Lord Panda]

I also think the RTS being dead claims are being way overstated, probably by lots of console only people who only pay attention to the biggest AAA stuff and are unaware of the thriving mid-tier that allows smaller productions and more niche communities to exist and thrive on PC.

For the big tier stuff, SC2 Legacy of the Void coming out in the next few months, which is a huge budget production game and rounds out that area of RTS with Company of Heroes 2, which is still active and popular and receives expansions on the regular. Going down a tier you have stuff like Grey Goo, Homeworld Remastered, Planetary Annhilation, Ultimate General: Gettysburg, Ancient Space and the like that are recent releases and sustain themselves with their own small communities. Then you have the older games that have been rereleased like Age of Empires 2 HD (which is also getting a brand new expansion soon), Rise of Nations Extended Edition and Age of Mythology, all of which have dedicated communities. AOE2 has a bunch of active players currently.

Then you have Relic teasing a new Dawn of War and Creative Assembly working on Total Warhammer and Halo Wars 2.

Ashes of the Singularity, Servo, Tooth and Tail, Act of Aggression, Cossacks 3, and Shipbreakers on the horizon.

MOBA is the devolution or dumbing-down of the RTS genre.

Pretty much.

 

[SparkTR]

All those RTS answers make me sad. PC gaming has greatly increased in popularity the last couple of years, you would think this would help with a RTS renaissance of some kind.

Moba's took a whole lot of the RTS audience, but like other people have said the genre is still alive and well:

• Company of Heroes 2
• Warhammer Total War
• Act of Aggression
• Grey Goo
• Planetary Annihilation
• Dawn of War 3 (rumored)
• Blitzkrieg 3
• Cossacks 3
• Spellforce 3
• Halo Wars 2
• Age of Empires 4 (rumored)
• Starcraft 2

If you're a fan of the genre there's lots of options out there.

 

[BillGaitas]

Arcadey fighter combat aka Ace Combat and imposters.

aerial combat games and car combat games

i used to play ace combat and twisted metal ... but i havent see them in a long time ago

Arcade flight sims are basically extinct

This game, Vector Thrust, just came out on Steam and it seems to be an Ace Combat style aerial combat game. Reviews seem to be positive, maybe give that a shot?

 

[HellBlazer]

For me:

True point and click adventures like Star Trek 25th. Not these steamping piles of ultra shit/crap Telltale puts out (seriously, what a misserable horrible POS company, fuck them, I hate them for what they've done.... I hate them

I miss both very badly.

What? That's crazy. On the contrary, we're in the middle of a big point-and-click revival. Join us in the PnC thread sometime. And play the Blackwell series.

 

[SparkTR]

What? That's crazy. On the contrary, we're in the middle of a big point-and-click revival. Join us in the PnC thread sometime. And play the Blackwell series.

Also The Book of Unwritten Tales games are some of the best PnC Adventure game ever, even compared to classics like Grim Fandango and Day of the Tentacle.

 

[Chainsawkitten]

yeah, all those indie RTS games those one-man studios are scrambling to build

2 released on Steam so far this month and 9 in July. Haven't played any of them so just going by descriptions on Steam. Seems to be doing fine. Don't know if any of those are good (some looked shit and some looked promising) but there are still enough releases.

 

[SparkTR]

Disgaea's far from dead, as well. It's getting pretty regular releases. You've also got Summon Night 5 being localized this year, the Devil survivor remakes released on 3ds, and a few other indies. If we're being more general with TRPGs, you can look at Shadowrun Returns, dragonfall, and the new one in development among many other games.

Also Legends of Eisenwald just released, and by many accounts it's fantastic.

 

[autoduelist]

Vehicular combat gets my vote. Maybe, just maybe, Mad Max will scratch the itch - or, better yet, spark a revival.


I'm rather happy because many of my favorite niche genres are in revival right now (dual stick shooters, first person dungeon crawls, etc).

Exactly.

What makes stealth fun is ghosting a level, being able to out-maneuver and out-think enemies without the safety net of heavy firepower to fall back. It's the anti-thesis of your typical game; the satisfaction comes from avoiding conflict for as long as possible

Wait a second, I thought what made stealth fun was snapping the neck of everyone you came across and hiding their body in a trash can. Unfortunately, what made it unfun is accidentally getting spotted right before the mission was over and insta-restarting because if it's not perfectly stealthed, it's not good enough.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Survival Horror.

Everytime a dev claims it, it isn't, and is just some other genre with a horror theme.


3D platforming games (non cartoony).

Prince of Persia is dead it seems and Tomb Raider abandoned everything it was wit the reboot.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Arcade racing games are pretty much dead.

Ridge Racer

Ridge Racer
Burnout
Motorstorm
Split/Second
Blur

We had a good last hurrah...

But now, it's over

 

[Hyperzephyrian]

Wait a second, I thought what made stealth fun was snapping the neck of everyone you came across and hiding their body in a trash can.

I like playing that way, too, like a silent, invisible predator. Part of what makes stealth games fun is that they're inherently very systems-driven and thus usually give you a lot of freedom to play how you want.

Unfortunately, what made it unfun is accidentally getting spotted right before the mission was over and insta-restarting because if it's not perfectly stealthed, it's not good enough.

Instant failure is bad stealth design; this was somewhat common in early stealth games, but it's a much more common offender in action games trying to do one-off stealth levels. It never works right there because the game (being action-based) doesn't have any other way of punishing you for being caught.

 

[djtiesto]

Extreme Sports games were absolutely massive in the late 90's, early 2000's... you had extreme BMX, surfing, snowboarding, motocross, etc... every other magazine ad seemed to be of an extreme sports title. Nowadays it's virtually dead, apart from that new Tony Hawk coming out. I wouldn't mind playing a good biking game tbh.

 

[Alebrije]

Games like Myst. Due to the way real time graphics have advanced compared to CGI, rendered images.

 

[Strangelove77]

Beat em ups. Dragons Crown is alright, but Scott Pilgrim was great. Dont know about anything else.

I also havent really looked hard, but I dont know if there is even a single arcade racer on PS4. Outside of kart racers, arcade racers are the only ones I can play. I tried to play Driveclub and immediately deleted it before I could finish the first race. Its just not for me.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

Flight sims.

 

[Syf]

MOBA is the devolution or dumbing-down of the RTS genre.

Yeah, this. Calling MOBA an evolution of RTS is kinda gross.

 

[Timeaisis]

Uh...

I guess I should be more specific. I mean "arcade puzzlers". I don't mean games with puzzles in them. The distinction is hard because there's no specific term for either.

I'm talking the likes of Tetris, not the likes of Machinarium, if that makes sense.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Japanese adventure games. They're still getting made, just not being brought over here aside from the visual novel/adventure game hybrids that Japan makes more of nowadays.

I also miss beat 'em ups (they all just rip off Batman Arkham games now). The 2D side scrolling ones are especially dead (but I'm truthfully not that broken up about it, considering how many I've still not played yet). Glad to see Cuphead keeping Run 'n Gun games alive by itself since all of the other recent examples have been shit or forgettable so run 'n gun might as well be dead.. Rail shooters are also a dying breed, which is one of my favourite sub genres; Star Fox Zero is basically going to be the last one for a looooong time, I'm betting. Lightgun games are still plentiful, just head to the local arcade, they're just not porting them to consoles, sadly.

EDIT: Handheld SRPGs/TRPGs are dying and we're getting nowhere near as many this generation as we did last on DS and PSP, no matter how you slice it. Remakes and ports especially don't cut it, sorry. Lost Dimension is the first one that I've played in months. These Japanese localization companies have probably realised just how niche they are and seen the sales figures and figured "nah, we can't keep doing this". The only ones we seem to get now are ones with awful art styles and chibi-fied. The devs don't seem to realise that a large part of the fanbase tend to be a little older than kids...they probably are all just aiming for a part of that Fire Emblem pie, hoping to get a slice of that.

 

[Nikodemos]

Innovative RTS that actually bring something new to the genre instead of the same old left-click select right-click move, capture more strat points/build more factories.

The last game to innovate the RTS genre was Achron.

 

[Sheytan]

Im so glad console jrpgs arnt on this list now
ლ(ٱ٥ٱ&#4314

But then again the majority of jrpgs seems be low budget and aimed at otakus now days

 

[More_Badass]

Innovative RTS that actually bring something new to the genre instead of the same old left-click select right-click move, capture more strat points/build more factories.

The last game to innovate the RTS genre was Achron.

Sounds really interesting but the reviews seem kind of mild. Worth playing?

 

[MiguelItUp]

Beat-em-ups are another. I REALLY don't want them to be either. Personally I've always wanted a 4-player beat-em-up utilizing physics. Maybe running off of UE4 or something. Destructible environments and stuff would be so awesome. I remember thinking that aspect was great in the Minority Report game (that was it of course). I was so excited when Castle Crashers came out and did really well. I was hoping it was going to stir up beat-em-up popularity and they'd be all over the place! But it never happened. Sure, one pops up here and there, but it's not what I was hoping for. I want a new Streets of Rage, (proper) Golden Axe, and then some. Someone hold me.

 

[Nikodemos]

Sounds really interesting but the reviews seem kind of mild. Worth playing?

Very interesting mechanic, but the team was too small and the budget too thin to fully and properly flesh it out.

Still worth trying, if only to see it work in practice.

I'm frankly hoping for a sequel with a much larger budget and more hires for the devs.

 

[redcrayon]

Japanese adventure games. They're still getting made, just not being brought over here aside from the visual novel/adventure game hybrids that Japan makes more of nowadays.

I also miss beat 'em ups (they all just rip off Batman Arkham games now). The 2D side scrolling ones are especially dead (but I'm truthfully not that broken up about it, considering how many I've still not played yet). Glad to see Cuphead keeping Run 'n Gun games alive by itself since all of the other recent examples have been shit or forgettable so run 'n gun might as well be dead.. Rail shooters are also a dying breed, which is one of my favourite sub genres; Star Fox Zero is basically going to be the last one for a looooong time, I'm betting. Lightgun games are still plentiful, just head to the local arcade, they're just not porting them to consoles, sadly.

EDIT: Handheld SRPGs/TRPGs are dying and we're getting nowhere near as many this generation as we did last on DS and PSP, no matter how you slice it. Remakes and ports especially don't cut it, sorry. Lost Dimension is the first one that I've played in months. These Japanese localization companies have probably realised just how niche they are and seen the sales figures and figured "nah, we can't keep doing this". The only ones we seem to get now are ones with awful art styles and chibi-fied. The devs don't seem to realise that a large part of the fanbase tend to be a little older than kids...they probably are all just aiming for a part of that Fire Emblem pie, hoping to get a slice of that.

Try Mercenaries Saga 2 on 3DS. It's like a £4 take on FFT. Well worth a punt. Visuals aren't fantastic but the mechanics are nicely balanced between classes and attacks/spells/skills, with facing, height and formation all factoring in.

I'm going to wait and see what Regalia, Project Phoenix and Liege look like on the Vita before ruling it dead. None of them have chibified art styles.

 

[Daheza]

I see a lot of people mentioning RTS. I agree the genre seems dead now but I can really see a comeback with the Oculus. I played Meltdown on the DK2 and it has the top down perspective and it felt great to play like that.

 

[RealityCheque]

Arcade racers. I'd give my left nut for a new burnout.