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George RR Martin's latest blog post has broken me.

Dural

Member
Its true, bran was always the best to lead, dude is basically build for it.
The dragon lady was going down in flames anyway, for the simple fact it was foreshadowed already multiple times. She can't rule for shit and everybody hates her at the end.
John snow being the assassin was kinda shit, dude had to die already ages ago but they kept him alive for the simple fact he was populaire. That little assassin god mode chick should have stabbed her at the end pretending to be her brother/father or whatever.
Ice king dying by the assassin chick was also solid, only the way the fight was done and it ended so rapidly instead of dragging it forwards for a season was just stupid. Most of the last seasons was like doing nothing, then fast forwards ultra speed mode, just badly directed and made.

Honestly the end is solid and exactly what u would want it to be. The execution was just garbage.

Yeah, Danerys was always kind of a bitch. Her turn didn't surprise me like a lot of people. Agreed on the Jon Snow being the assassin as well, Arya would have been the better choice then Jon could have fought the Night King.

There is a something called a “Great Other” (or something like that, because damn how long has it been since I read these books?) which I thought was sorta supposed to be what the Night King was in the show. But who knows at this point. I’ll probably need to be content to know essentially how everything ends, regardless of how poorly the showrunners rushed the job.

I did see a rumor that Rothfuss was maybe getting close to finishing the final Kingkiller Chronicle but we’ll all probably be dead by then too.

God, I read The Name of the Wind in 2010 and then A Wise Man's Fear was released in 2011. It was great! Now I've been waiting 11 years for the story to finish. :rolleyes: It seems some authors just can't come up with satisfying endings and sit on it until they think they get it right. That's something I give Brandon Sanderson a lot of credit for, he has no issue getting his books out.
 
There is a something called a “Great Other” (or something like that, because damn how long has it been since I read these books?) which I thought was sorta supposed to be what the Night King was in the show. But who knows at this point. I’ll probably need to be content to know essentially how everything ends, regardless of how poorly the showrunners rushed the job.

I did see a rumor that Rothfuss was maybe getting close to finishing the final Kingkiller Chronicle but we’ll all probably be dead by then too.
I always thought the great other was actually a different god. Not the night king
 
Yeah, Danerys was always kind of a bitch. Her turn didn't surprise me like a lot of people. Agreed on the Jon Snow being the assassin as well, Arya would have been the better choice then Jon could have fought the Night King.



God, I read The Name of the Wind in 2010 and then A Wise Man's Fear was released in 2011. It was great! Now I've been waiting 11 years for the story to finish. :rolleyes: It seems some authors just can't come up with satisfying endings and sit on it until they think they get it right. That's something I give Brandon Sanderson a lot of credit for, he has no issue getting his books out.
Brandon Sanderson is a machine. He has pumped the stormlight archives out with astonishing speed and regularity. Great books

He also works on other stuff too!
 

Bragr

Member
This is and always was the most likely explanation:

I wouldn't say it's the case of fans "didn't like it", imagine the shitstorm that will happen if he publishes the book which is EXACTLY like the TV show that ended years ago. It's not that the show was bad (it was), but rather all will see him as a liar telling for years how his books were going to end differently.


The TV series ended exactly as he wanted to end the books, his mistake was that he probably shared it with the writers a few years back thinking he will have the books out first, and not understanding TV series production is a really efficient and fast operation.
Well, what he said recently was that his meeting with the showrunners was only a few days, where she splurged on what he expected to happen. But now, when he is actually writing it, he finds that his stories are going in different directions than what he told the showrunners, it was never some "set in iron" story. The story happens as he is writing it.
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
Well, what he said recently was that his meeting with the showrunners was only a few days, where she splurged on what he expected to happen. But now, when he is actually writing it, he finds that his stories are going in different directions than what he told the showrunners, it was never some "set in iron" story. The story happens as he is writing it.
He's been writing it for years now, I call BS on that. Regardless, a lot of people will not care anymore, GoT is a closed chapter for them.
 

winjer

Member
He got into a huge mess of characters and plots and has no willpower to fix it.

Truth is, a dance of dragons is barely readable, as is.

You just need to surrender yourself to the truth: 3 amazing books, two so-so books and the rest was written by the HBO staff.

He can fix that with a handful of murders.

Personally, there are several characters that I find very boring to read about.
Some are POV for several chapters.
 

Bragr

Member
being really honest here, the latest book was actually pretty bad.
It's true. It's sad but true. Everything overseas is just dull. I remember the Dornish prince coming to wed Daenerys, Shavepate, and tons of other half-ass characters that I never cared about. He never built that world, he built Westeros.

Martin loved the Starks, and that's where all his ideas and characters thrived. Over time, as people's endless hype for A Song of Ice and Fire dies out, it will likely be established that his first 3 books were brilliant, and then it fell off. He got a serious task ahead of him if Winds of Winter is gonna fix that. And it starts with telling the story from characters we actually care about, not fuckface mcfuck from hobla kobla in some random desert nation that Daenerys is visiting.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
The last book wasn’t bad at all IMO, but I prefer to read it as a giant tome combined with AFFC than either one on their own. Somewhere I’ve got a PDF someone put together where the chapters are all combined in the appropriate chronological order. I enjoyed that much more than reading them split up
 

Lady Jane

Banned
GRRM does go overboard on the number of POV's. He should have written it better and kept the characters in less groups to avoid too many story routes. He doesn't have to go on a killing spree but the cast needs to start grouping up asap.
 

Bragr

Member
Get out of here with that nonsense. You don't know the full extent of his medical conditions, so I don't think it appropriate to be giving him a time limit. Now that Game of Thrones has concluded I'm sure he'll worry about these books people are so fond about.
You ain't wrong, it's rude to talk about it, but it's a weird position we are in, he needs to reach around 85-90 to finish this story, and how many seriously obese people have you seen that are 85-90? it's very unlikely.

Considering how much he struggles to write this, it seems more and more likely that he already struggles to write.

At this point, the best case scenario would be that he accepts help from some other great fantasy writer to write this.
 

Doom85

Member
Yeah, Danerys was always kind of a bitch. Her turn didn't surprise me like a lot of people.

Yeeeeaaaaaah, when she flat out locks up her dragons for killing a child a few seasons back, you do kind of need to offer a better transition to her killing countless children than just “she’s kind of a bitch”. Your aunt Helen might be kind of a bitch, but are you expecting her to just suddenly burn down an orphanage?



Seriously, if she was supposed to become the villain, then we should have gotten a proper Walter White development over the seasons. Instead, we got Anakin “I’m gung ho about killing children despite being hesitant to kill Mace literally minutes ago!” Skywalker. Yes, she lost a few people she cares about, but obviously Cersei is the one to blame for a good deal of it, yet she prioritizes burning a ton of bystanders down rather than going after an actual bitch who caused her emotional loss?

Seth Meyers Question GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers


The only reason her “turn” in the show isn’t the worst is because Jaime was also present for Season 8. I’ve not seen ANY fan defend that one, and if one did I would legitimately wonder if they were a screenwriter on the show in disguise trying to defend their own bullshit.
 
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Lady Jane

Banned
It's clear where Dany is going after the end of A Dance of Dragons and GRRM was going to build that up in the next two books. The show decided to do all of that in half an episode.
 

Dural

Member
Yeeeeaaaaaah, when she flat out locks up her dragons for killing a child a few seasons back, you do kind of need to offer a better transition to her killing countless children than just “she’s kind of a bitch”. Your aunt Helen might be kind of a bitch, but are you expecting her to just suddenly burn down an orphanage?



Seriously, if she was supposed to become the villain, then we should have gotten a proper Walter White development over the seasons. Instead, we got Anakin “I’m gung ho about killing children despite being hesitant to kill Mace literally minutes ago!” Skywalker. Yes, she lost a few people she cares about, but obviously Cersei is the one to blame for a good deal of it, yet she prioritizes burning a ton of bystanders down rather than going after an actual bitch who caused her emotional loss?

Seth Meyers Question GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers


The only reason her “turn” in the show isn’t the worse is because Jaime was also present for Season 8. I’ve not seen ANY fan defend that one, and if one did I would legitimately wonder if they were a screenwriter on the show in disguise trying to defend their own bullshit.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it needed more development. I was just never a big fan of her and her talking as if she just deserves to be Queen throughout the series kinda pissed me off. My wife was a big fan of hers, so when she turned I got a kick out of it.
 

Madflavor

Member
I always wanted Mad Queen Dany because I thought it'd be cool and it was very obvious that bitch had a God complex about her. So I was cemented in the Mad Queen camp throughout the whole show. And well, I got what I wanted. It was just mishandled at every turn. I know people have mentioned this before, but you really could've had a whole season focused on Dany's decent into madness. Both the Long Night and Mad Queen Dany both needed their own seasons of television. Instead they took both storylines, crunched them both into 1 season, and the season was almost half the length of a normal season. It's actually pretty insane when you look at it that way. But that's what happened.

I wonder if DnD haven't gotten any big projects since then because of how mishandled GoT Season 8 was. The writing was bad for sure, but look at it this way. You're a big studio, and you're watching these two guys who are the showrunners for the biggest television show in history. Every night is like the Superbowl, people around the world gather around their television to watch Game of Thrones. It was Event TV. Everyone who worked on the show gave it 110% effort, they had an enormous budget, the most talented film and production crew, and they were on the final season. The big epic conclusion.

And they winged it. They rushed it. They half assed it. Their hearts weren't in it.

So if you're a big studio and you see that, you have to wonder just how reliable these guys are to properly manage a show. If they can't be bothered to give the final season of the biggest show everything they got, what guarantee do you have that they'll do it for your project? On top of that it became very obvious that these guys were terrible storytellers without GRRMs work.
 
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The story is dead, he knows it and just doesn't have the heart to announce it. He's moved on to other projects and will be working on those the rest of his life.

In my head, the Night King breached The Wall and killed everyone. Winter finally came and conquered - a fitting end.
 

Madflavor

Member
The story is dead, he knows it and just doesn't have the heart to announce it. He's moved on to other projects and will be working on those the rest of his life.

In my head, the Night King breached The Wall and killed everyone. Winter finally came and conquered - a fitting end.

I'd be fine with that honestly. The setting of ASOIAF has made it pretty clear that while there are a tiny portion of people who are good hearted, the vast majority of humanity are irredeemable and don't deserve the life and earth they were given. So fuck em.
 

Blade2.0

Member
The average male life expectancy, in the USA is 74.5 years. He is 73 years old.
And he is not a particularly fit person. Probabilities are not on his side.
true, but unlike most Americans (because of our shitty healthcare system) he has the funds for the best doctors money can buy. that helps alleviate some of the issues.
 

Soodanim

Member
Yeeeeaaaaaah, when she flat out locks up her dragons for killing a child a few seasons back, you do kind of need to offer a better transition to her killing countless children than just “she’s kind of a bitch”. Your aunt Helen might be kind of a bitch, but are you expecting her to just suddenly burn down an orphanage?



Seriously, if she was supposed to become the villain, then we should have gotten a proper Walter White development over the seasons. Instead, we got Anakin “I’m gung ho about killing children despite being hesitant to kill Mace literally minutes ago!” Skywalker. Yes, she lost a few people she cares about, but obviously Cersei is the one to blame for a good deal of it, yet she prioritizes burning a ton of bystanders down rather than going after an actual bitch who caused her emotional loss?

Seth Meyers Question GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers


The only reason her “turn” in the show isn’t the worst is because Jaime was also present for Season 8. I’ve not seen ANY fan defend that one, and if one did I would legitimately wonder if they were a screenwriter on the show in disguise trying to defend their own bullshit.
I'm with you. I never agree with the "It was foreshadowed" line of thought, because her story the entire time was that she didn't want to be the cruel lunatic and took steps to avoid that. She went out of her way to be better so she could be an effective leader even if it meant making some tough decisions she'd rather not make, then all of a sudden she's loony. Everyone agrees it was because the last couple seasons were among the most rushed TV of all time, but that doesn't excuse it. As it stands, I can't accept that we had any reason to accept that she was going to go crazy.

I honestly don't know why D&D didn't say "We don't want to do this, so we will help find someone who will taker over and do it properly". How deluded do you have to be to think you can finish the story well enough with how many episodes they decided to finish it in? It's the biggest troll in Hollywood. To go from the biggest show on TV to essentially forgotten overnight is nothing short of incredible.
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
true, but unlike most Americans (because of our shitty healthcare system) he has the funds for the best doctors money can buy. that helps alleviate some of the issues.
No money in the world can combat years if not decades of neglect that he has given his body. His heart must be in terrible state.
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
Joe Abercrombie is where it's at, superior in every single way.

Meh. His early stuff, sure. But his recent stuff hasn't been that great. Half a King could be one of, if not the worst books I've ever had the displeasure of reading. However, the First Law Trilogy is absolutely fantastic.

Actually, if George needed anybody to finish the series, I'd put Joe Abercrombie forward to do it. I reckon he'd be the best fit and do decent job. He'd certainly finish it anyway.
 
It's been so long that I don't even care anymore, and I started reading the books one year before the HBO show came out. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for the people who are following ASOIAF since the 90's.

The fantasy genre is kind of cursed. I'm also waiting ages for Patrick Rothfuss' The Doors of Stone and I really doubt it'll be the last book in the Kingkiller Chronicles series...
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
I mean you say that but then go on to explain it was both rushed and badly executed. I know you’re saying some of the ideas were good, but they weren’t just badly executed. They were really really really badly executed. Characters behaved monumentally stupid to the point of character assassination, just to rush and move the plot forward.

I disagree about Arya killing the NK. Bad idea and DnD admitted they did it just because it’d be a surprise. As a result Jon Snow, the character who’s been the biggest driving force for the White Walker plot, the one who’s had multiple stare downs with the NK, did basically nothing the entire Battle of Winterfell. That should’ve been Jon’s episode. His whole path had led him to that battle.

Instead the episode focuses so damn much on Arya, and she gets the kill. She also gets the kill in a ridiculous fashion. It was such a disappointment.

Subverting expectations should never take precedence over the natural conclusion to a character’s arc. Because when it does you get Game of Thrones Season Fucking 8.

Writer:
"“We’ve all read this story a million times when a bunch of heroes set out on adventure and it’s the hero and his best friend and his girlfriend and they go through amazing hair-raising adventures and none of them die. The only ones who die are extras,” said Martin. “That’s such a cheat. It doesn’t happen that way. They go into battle and their best friend dies or they get horribly wounded. They lose their leg or death comes at them unexpectedly.”

John Snow should have died.

Ukraine thread is a good example of this where this russian soldier ( hero of his family ) calls up his girlfriend and she suddently realizes its rip, because real world works funny like that.

Honestly, the main reason why the whole series went complete dog shit at the end was that everybody stayed alife no matter what, it was exactly what the series wasn't about.
 
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The story is dead, he knows it and just doesn't have the heart to announce it. He's moved on to other projects and will be working on those the rest of his life.

In my head, the Night King breached The Wall and killed everyone. Winter finally came and conquered - a fitting end.
That's the worst part, there's not even a night king in the books. The showrunners were the night king all along, and they did indeed breach that wall and murder the show.
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
Hey! George has given update on Winds of Winter in his latest blog post!

But right now, Ryan Condal’s focus is on HOT D season two, and mine is on THE WINDS OF WINTER.

Anybody else think that this is a hint that the book is near completion? 2023 perhaps? 2024? Empty words?

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/
 
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jason10mm

Member
Please, what's different now versus that other TEN+ YEARS????

Allllthouuuugghghhhhhh, I gotta say the quality of HotD has gotten me more excited for WoW. After GoT s8 I'm not sure you could have PAID me to read more Westeros, but now I've gotten a palate cleanser and am ready to be whipped again :p

So if he made a tactical decision to delay WoW till HotD came out it was probably a wise move.
 
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IDKFA

Gold Member
Please, what's different now versus that other TEN+ YEARS????

Allllthouuuugghghhhhhh, I gotta say the quality of HotD has gotten me more excited for WoW. After GoT s8 I'm not sure you could have PAID me to read more Westeros, but now I've gotten a palate cleanser and am ready to be whipped again :p

So if he made a tactical decision to delay WoW till HotD came out it was probably a wise move.

I doubt he'd delay it on purpose due to a gamble on the success of HotD.

I admit, HotD has got me excited for Winds, but if ADOS is never going to be released then what's the point? He already said he won't let anybody else finish the series, and if he takes longer with ADOS then the series will never be completed.

At which point, I'd question why this series is even still allowed to be sold.
 

jason10mm

Member
I doubt he'd delay it on purpose due to a gamble on the success of HotD.

I admit, HotD has got me excited for Winds, but if ADOS is never going to be released then what's the point? He already said he won't let anybody else finish the series, and if he takes longer with ADOS then the series will never be completed.

At which point, I'd question why this series is even still allowed to be sold.
Does GRRM even have kids? Who gets his estate? I've little doubt that Westeros will live on LONG after GRRM is gone as he must have left a wealth of material. He will just need a Chris Tolkien type curator of things to churn out books for decades and he has that with the couple that does those prequel history books.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I haven't bothered to watch any House of the Dragon yet, but it's very telling how vocal he is in his praise for the show, in contrast to GoT, where all he usually said was, "Well, it's different lol".
 

Paltheos

Member
Hey! George has given update on Winds of Winter in his latest blog post!

But right now, Ryan Condal’s focus is on HOT D season two, and mine is on THE WINDS OF WINTER.

Anybody else think that this is a hint that the book is near completion? 2023 perhaps? 2024? Empty words?

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/

It's been said already, but I'll expound upon it. This means nothing. It's been 12 years. At this point anything short of a firm release date is just words in the wind. He has too much shit on the plate for me to think that he cares anything substantial whatsoever about this book until he can prove otherwise.
 

Lunarorbit

Member
Grrm is hyper focused on the giants. Wait I mean winds of winter.

Wait, did he order the pizza yet?

Weiner weiner weiner. Nice and soft. Not threatening. Weiner weiner weiner
 

Ionian

Member
He will never ever finish them.

He's too stuck up his own arse.

He doesn't care anymore.

why? no idea but the last two books were shit.
 

Yoboman

Member
I think the main thing is that George was always a TV writer, he started writing books after his TV projects weren't picked up. Getting on HBO was probably always his ultimate goal and finishing the books simply became secondary after that

He is especially demotivated now aS they will likely never do anything with the two remaining books in terms of converting them to TV
 

Pidull

Member
I think the main thing is that George was always a TV writer, he started writing books after his TV projects weren't picked up. Getting on HBO was probably always his ultimate goal and finishing the books simply became secondary after that

He is especially demotivated now aS they will likely never do anything with the two remaining books in terms of converting them to TV
Just as other franchises have tried over again, I think there's opportunity for ASOIAF if he finishes the books and they're excellent.

Maybe they'll do the opposite of The Hobbit and LotR and go from live action to animated.

Edit- silly me, he'd have to finish the books for that to happen
 
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