This is a good thing.
A ruling that "used" digital games could be resold would completely destroy the market. you'd get people just selling 1 copy around for pennies. It would have meant that publishers would completely abandon selling you full games and moved to subscription/microtransaction models only.
If you like being able to buy a complete game and own it, this is the ruling you wanted to see.
Yeah comparing digital purchases to rentals is dumb..
Its not going away and you are not going to owe a huge late fee someday.. lol
Now if Playstation Now takes off that could be a whole different matter. Streaming games is where shits gona get freakin stupid.
Lump sum license.
I think its more like a lease. You pay the amount and the game goes to you, until valve goes bankrupt. You can't sell the game though. Anybody got a nicer term for it?
Exactly. The only differences between this and physical goods would be that you don't need to post/carry to a store to trade-in, and there is no degradation of quality - so no scratched discs etc. otherwise you are doing he same - giving up your ability to play that game and handing that ability to someone else.
Yeah comparing digital purchases to rentals is dumb..
Its not going away and you are not going to owe a huge late fee someday.. lol
Being able to resell keys would allow JaseC and I to complete our Steam collections.
I NEED WOLFENSTEIN 2009 AND I CAN'T AFFORD THE $150 OR SO IT COSTS, MANG, NOT IF I WANT A ROOF OVER MY HEAD
I'm on it.Title is littlebit missleading apparently for some people. This is not EU ruling, its ruling of lower German court in europe. They will probaly just complain it to EU-court now, depending on what the actual ruling will be
Earlier case was about right to sell software you had bought and installed updates on. It does not affect valve or other gamecompanies mostly because it does not say they have to make it possible for you to sell the game, the ruling says you can sell software with its updates, if you remove it from your self. It probaly makes it legal to sell youre steam account, as theres no other way given to sell the software, that removes it from you.
Youre national courts in europe can take sides in cases that are "against the law", you can complain to Eu-court and get a ruling, like in the previous case. Some countries courts rule against Laws on purpose, for example Finland has been in EU Courts for wrongful taxation of used car importing from within EU for 13 years. Now the cases finally seem to be at end and Finland has to pay the damages.
Only real way to quarantee right for software ownership in EU is not to rely on EU-courts is to get EU-comission to set new Directive that makes the case in law clearer so its harder to go agains the earlier rulings, or to get these rights included in some EU-Agreement.
Exactly. The only differences between this and physical goods would be that you don't need to post/carry to a store to trade-in, and there is no degradation of quality - so no scratched discs etc. otherwise you are doing he same - giving up your ability to play that game and handing that ability to someone else.
If this individual game reselling actually occurs some day, it would definitely cause the death of the current business model and force developers and publishers to make F2P or subscription based games.
Same goes for discs.The thing is though, that by buying a digital version of a game is that you don't own the game all you have is a license to play the game & that license can be revoked at anytime.
Won't somebody please think of the corporations?
I think I missed something. Wasn't valve preparing to launch game resale via steam?
Either way that's too bad. Valve and editors could certainly have made profit out of this. ( by taking margins on resales )
Also the physical part of a game on DVD is irrelevant, nobody care about the actual disc. So actually, digital is just like retail in this field, imo.
"Anything" that gives you more rights against multi-million dollar companies is something we should be clamouring for, regardless of whether or not it's Valve.
Removing our right to own property, digital or otherwise, is bad.
Did not expect that at all , how depressing
How did this even happen, how did they get away with waving consumer rights on digital goods in the EU
I always assumed this would be fixed eventually...
If you buy Borderlands 2 on Steam, you don't own a physical copy of Borderlands 2. You own a license to play Borderlands 2 on Steam. It's pretty simple. Traditional ownership rights do not apply, and should not apply. The 'end of life' for these systems is a trickier question.
It really makes no odds if it undermines their business mate. At the end of the day, Valve is a huge company, loaded with cash and resources. We should be going for anything that gives us more rights on the goods we purchase from that company.
Problem is same applies if I buy a boxed version of a Steamworks game. The problem is that you don't own the game or license on steam you're allowed to use it and they can cut you off at any time, which is problematic (this was in wording already in place for all licenses but for non Online only games not really enforceable without a DRM client. Also you didn't buy a CD on boxed games it's just the delivery method you bought the License as you do now......
Completely agree. One could consider the fact that reselling a digital license is not much different from reselling a physical object: in both cases you don't have access to what you sold anymore.Your "rights" in this instance would fundamentally undermine the business model that has made Steam so lucrative for everyone involved, including the gamer. When you buy a game on Steam, you are buying a steam key. That steam key is essentially a license and not an actual, physical thing. It says that you own the game indefinitely so long as Steam is around. In the event Steam goes away, Valve has said they will unshackle the games.
You accept this in exchange for the lowest and most flexible pricing of any platform. Devs accept this because it provides a reliable revenue stream that can be easily tweaked and fiddled with. If I push 1 million copies into traditional retail channels, I have no idea how much revenue I can get in the future or how much I may even end up making a month from now. If I push 1 million steam keys, I've made 1 million times whatever that game has been selling for.
Reselling Steam games should never, ever be a thing. Refunds within a reasonable period should be, and Valve is sort of getting there.
I don't get why so many people are so keen to kill the PC golden goose. Just look at the shit console gamers have to put up with and the prices they pay. Do you really want to head back towards that?
If you buy Borderlands 2 on Steam, you don't own a physical copy of Borderlands 2. You own a license to play Borderlands 2 on Steam. It's pretty simple. Traditional ownership rights do not apply, and should not apply. The 'end of life' for these systems is a trickier question.
Just how would it work?
Your entire argument is essentially: individual good, corporation bad. It's a wonderful millennial theory that doesn't work in the real world.It really makes no odds if it undermines their business mate. At the end of the day, Valve is a huge company, loaded with cash and resources. We should be going for anything that gives us more rights on the goods we purchase from that company.
Valve can easily afford to take that financial hit. The consumer can not.
This also sets a future precedent. Next time EA or Microsoft try something daft when it comes to pre-owned or digital purchases, they can cite this case and shrug their shoulders.
Your "rights" in this instance would fundamentally undermine the business model that has made Steam so lucrative for everyone involved, including the gamer.
It says that you own the game indefinitely so long as Steam is around.
In the event Steam goes away, Valve has said they will unshackle the games.
Yea, it completely ignores how we, as consumers, actually do need businesses to do well if we want to have any product/service to buy in the first place. There has to be compromises.Your entire argument is essentially: individual good, corporation bad. It's a wonderful millennial theory that doesn't work in the real world.
Valve isn't going to take the hit. Gamers will. Prices and sales will be adjusted to accommodate the fact that the market is now flooded with 'used' copies that can be bought instantaneously for less than suggest sver the going rate is in the Steam store. The idealistic "well, because we deserve rights" sounds nice, but it has no relevance to a discussion about how digital economies actually work. .
Your entire argument is essentially: individual good, corporation bad. It's a wonderful millennial theory that doesn't work in the real world.
Anyways, I'm in agreement with the posters above that the reselling of 'used' digital games would undermine the entire market and should not be implemented.
Not the issue at hand.
These are issues that would need to be worked out, yes. I'm confident that it's very possible to do so. Having a delay such as you mention of say 3-6 months would probably cool the second hand market quite a bit but there are surely many other options, or combinations thereof, available.How would digital resale even work? I just can't wrap my head around it.
Wouldn't the digital marketplace be swamped with people listing the game for much cheaper price than the actual company is selling it, meaning the company wouldn't sell any more?
Would there be a delay before you'd be allowed to sell it?
Or would you only be allowed so many re-sell slots per year?
Just how would it work?
Welp, this has always been the end game for the digital-push. Getting rid of the idea of consumers actually owning anything. This is why I'll never buy a Microsoft gaming console after their Xbone fiasco, why I don't care for Steam at all, and why I'll always, always opt for physical games.
Yea, Valve could survive in some form.My argument is not that at all. My argument is more "Corporation is loaded and can take a hit" and "Individual doesn't have much in comparison".
Your "rights" in this instance would fundamentally undermine the business model that has made Steam so lucrative for everyone involved, including the gamer. When you buy a game on Steam, you are buying a steam key. That steam key is essentially a license and not an actual, physical thing. It says that you own the game indefinitely so long as Steam is around. In the event Steam goes away, Valve has said they will unshackle the games.
You accept this in exchange for the lowest and most flexible pricing of any platform. Devs accept this because it provides a reliable revenue stream that can be easily tweaked and fiddled with. If I push 1 million copies into traditional retail channels, I have no idea how much revenue I can get in the future or how much I may even end up making a month from now. If I push 1 million steam keys, I've made 1 million times whatever that game has been selling for.
Reselling Steam games should never, ever be a thing. Refunds within a reasonable period should be, and Valve is sort of getting there.
I don't get why so many people are so keen to kill the PC golden goose. Just look at the shit console gamers have to put up with and the prices they pay. Do you really want to head back towards that?
If you buy Borderlands 2 on Steam, you don't own a physical copy of Borderlands 2. You own a license to play Borderlands 2 on Steam. It's pretty simple. Traditional ownership rights do not apply, and should not apply. The 'end of life' for these systems is a trickier question.
If you buy Borderlands 2 on Steam, you don't own a physical copy of Borderlands 2. You own a license to play Borderlands 2 on Steam. It's pretty simple. Traditional ownership rights do not apply, and should not apply. The 'end of life' for these systems is a trickier question.
Yea, Valve could survive in some form.
But think less about the vendors and think about the developers and publishers. Are they really going to want to make a game for the PC when they know how nobody is going to want to buy a 'new' game anymore? There is no downside to buying a used digital product.
If you buy Borderlands 2 on Steam, you don't own a physical copy of Borderlands 2. You own a license to play Borderlands 2 on Steam. It's pretty simple. Traditional ownership rights do not apply, and should not apply. The 'end of life' for these systems is a trickier question.
Because they enjoy PC gaming and don't want it to die?how is that even an argument? what should the consumer/average member of society care how much money valve make?
Many people quite like Steam and don't want it to go anywhere.and defending this saying 'it's what makes steam so much money'
how is that even an argument? what should the consumer/average member of society care how much money valve make?