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[Demmi]

Except girl wasn't being used as an insult. Replace "girl" with the name of OP's ex-friend.

Yeah, I was about to say. It actually troubles me how easily people managed to glean that from the post. I mean, it was so clearly referring to the girl in the OP, and is a phrase that has been used so often, that I'm baffled that this is where it wound up.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This is such a stupid, bulllshit quote, and I cringe every time someone posted it as if it'd a poetic construction of meaningful words while in reality it's just mainly hogwash.

It makes sense in context of what he is responding to.

Too bad, like 90% of all Quote Memes, it is so far out of context that the new meaning it has taken is disgusting.

 

[gutter_trash]

This is such a stupid, bulllshit quote, and I cringe every time someone posted it as if it'd a poetic construction of meaningful words while in reality it's just mainly hogwash.

his nose curves with the rest of his face, rubber nose Fry

 

[DxGonzalo]

This is such a stupid, bulllshit quote, and I cringe every time someone posted it as if it'd a poetic construction of meaningful words while in reality it's just mainly hogwash.

I'm rather offended by that.

Spoiler

 

[Nealand Liquor]

People can come up with as many numerous multi paragraph posts to explain in great detail how what the OP said could somehow justify causing offense, but I don't and won't accept it.
Sure I accept that someone was offended, but it is in no way justifiable and is completely irrational.

 

[squidyj]

Please don't be disingenuous.

Are you this dense for real? Forgive me if English isn't your first language.

 

[Minamu]

Seems relevant

http://www.collegehumor.com/post/7011522/everything-is-offensive-to-everybody

 

[A Link to the Past]

Are you this dense for real? Forgive me if English isn't your first language.

It's always pretty meta when people get really aggressive and begin posturing in response to people criticizing offensive posts in a thread about someone upset that someone found his post offensive.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

No, but by using girl as an insult to some one you are saying that being a girl is a bad thing and you should be insulted by being compared to a girl.

Same reason why using gay as an insult is insulting to gay people.

He's referring to a specific person, not using girls in general as a pejorative.

 

[AlimNassor]

I'm going to take a stab at what they might be thinking here.

I think they are reading your guys joking as wearing a dress being embarassing so it's something to laugh about that you'd ever do (as if you'd ever do that hahahaha). Or being seen as doing something female like is being embarassing (it's ok for females cause they are the "lesser" being). I'm guessing they're taking it as when guys insult each other (even jokingly) by trying to equate the other with something feminine.

Put it this way. Female stuff is seen as "lesser". It's insulting to most guys to be equated wtih female stuff. You may say, "That's cause I'm not a female". But speaking as a tomboy, it's a lot less insulting to like guy stuff if you are a female. In fact, some people will outright see you as superior to a girly girl because you like the "good stuff". I remember my dad's friends being all congratulatory to me for not liking that stupid girly stuff and liking real stuff (like cars and planes). Try being a guy who likes dolls and girly stuff... you aren't going to get near as many people encouraging you or even writing you as characters that are "cool" (lots of cool tomboys in kids literature). That is kinda changing now (I've at least seen people calling out that attitude), but even when I was growing up, it was thought nothing to make fun of guys who like dolls. Though as a kid I met one kid who was such and I just thought it was amusing that I was a girl who liked boy stuff and he was a boy who liked girl stuff (I guess liking the kind of stuff you are stereotyped not to makes you more open to some one who also doesn't fit the mold? Especially if in some way he's similar to you in how he doesn't fit the mold). Hell, I remember reading a story of a mother whose kid liked some pink piece of clothing and how she ranted how many people came up to her and were horrified she'd let him wear that (where as most people thought nothing of me wearing jeans and never dresses or liking cars and didn't try to say I should be raised differently).

Female stuff is seen as inferior and it's ok for females cause they are inferior. But a guy shouldn't lower himself to doing female stuff.

That's probably what they are seeing when you are joking about wearing dresses in a way to say, "As if we'd do that!".

I think you're reading waaaay too much into this.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They sound like psychopaths.

 

[SystemBug]

This is such a stupid, bulllshit quote, and I cringe every time someone posted it as if it'd a poetic construction of meaningful words while in reality it's just mainly hogwash.

Yep. Redditors use it when they want to be racist or misogynistic

 

[Tigress]

I think you're reading waaaay too much into this.

And I think you are taking for granted cultural attitudes towards stuff. I'm not saying that op was trying to say this by that joke. I'm saying though the joke is funny cause people take for granted these attitudes. Op and others don't even realize they are even doing that when they make jokes like that (I don't think it's malicious but I do think it is an attitude that does pervade our culture). It's harder to see if you are in the "dominant" position in society but stop taking things for granted and think about it. This is what people mean when they say "check your privledge". It's not saying you are trying to be sexist or even don't try not to be. It's saying because you have privledge you are taking things for granted and are being blind to something.

I mean try thinking of why that joke works. Because it is absurd. Why is it absurd?

Plus I was just trying to explain what their perception of his comments might be.

 

[Fbh]

Just ignore them. I think if you are not friends you can block them, and if they are then unfriend them.

There are better things to do in life than trying to talk to people that can't take a joke that's not even aimed at them without somehow feeling offended

 

[grumble]

And I think you are taking for granted cultural attitudes towards stuff. I'm not saying that op was trying to say this by that joke. I'm saying though the joke is funny cause people take for granted these attitudes. Op and others don't even realize they are even doing that when they make jokes like that (I don't think it's malicious but I do think it is an attitude that does pervade our culture). It's harder to see if you are in the "dominant" position in society but stop taking things for granted and think about it. This is what people mean when they say "check your privledge". It's not saying you are trying to be sexist or even don't try not to be. It's saying because you have privledge you are taking things for granted and are being blind to something.

I mean try thinking of why that joke works. Because it is absurd. Why is it absurd?

Plus I was just trying to explain what their perception of his comments might be.

Sounds like you nailed it to me. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and everything changes.

 

[AlimNassor]

And I think you are taking for granted cultural attitudes towards stuff. I'm not saying that op was trying to say this by that joke. I'm saying though the joke is funny cause people take for granted these attitudes. Op and others don't even realize they are even doing that when they make jokes like that (I don't think it's malicious but I do think it is an attitude that does pervade our culture). It's harder to see if you are in the "dominant" position in society but stop taking things for granted and think about it. This is what people mean when they say "check your privledge". It's not saying you are trying to be sexist or even don't try not to be. It's saying because you have privledge you are taking things for granted and are being blind to something.

I mean try thinking of why that joke works. Because it is absurd. Why is it absurd?

Plus I was just trying to explain what their perception of his comments might be.

No, I appreciate your input but anything and everything can be misconstrued as offensive to someone. This wasn't obvious, nor was he purposely doing anything malicious it's a bunch of a fuss over a harmless joke. There isn't any way to live if I have to constantly watch what I say. AM I sure what I'm saying won't be misconstrued as racist or sexist? Privilege has nothing to do with it. At this point I should be careful with I say for fear of pissing someone off? Like I said I understand if he said something sexist and then defended that but, it wasn't a sexist joke.

Someone misunderstood it and made a fuss about it. What I'm saying is it does seem as though any joke now is and can be seen as offensive to some. I shouldn't have to check my privilege whenever I talk to a friend, I shouldn't have to be super selective with my words. look, I fully am aware that I am a super privilege and therefore should not have any right to say what is and what is offensive. I fully understand that I have no leg to stand on but, I do think people are purposely looking for things to be upset over. Shit man I'm a SJW, I fight for the underprivileged, I hate the fact I was born privileged while others suffer. I'm just not seeing why or how this could be sexist, and why people need to make a fuss.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Nearly every joke is offensive to someone, to try to avoid that would be the death of comedy.

 

[John Kowalski]

And I think you are taking for granted cultural attitudes towards stuff. I'm not saying that op was trying to say this by that joke. I'm saying though the joke is funny cause people take for granted these attitudes. Op and others don't even realize they are even doing that when they make jokes like that (I don't think it's malicious but I do think it is an attitude that does pervade our culture). It's harder to see if you are in the "dominant" position in society but stop taking things for granted and think about it. This is what people mean when they say "check your privledge". It's not saying you are trying to be sexist or even don't try not to be. It's saying because you have privledge you are taking things for granted and are being blind to something.

I mean try thinking of why that joke works. Because it is absurd. Why is it absurd?

Plus I was just trying to explain what their perception of his comments might be.

Pretty much.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

I mean try thinking of why that joke works. Because it is absurd. Why is it absurd?

Your assessment is foregoing the possibility that these people know each other, having an established rapport, and are making a joke based off individuals and their personal traits or identity. Not playing off their general conception of social norms or ignorance for the plight of marginalized groups.

If I make a joke about how it'd be silly that my friend Zach wear a dress or If he wears one as a joke at say a Halloween party amongst friends the joke isn't that it's inherently funny that any man is doing what's commonly considered feminine. The joke is that it's funny that Zach would, because it's an out of character roll reversal and repudiates his personal identification.

Now I wouldn't necessarily find this funny for other reasons, but the source of the joke isn't necessarily general perceptions. Especially when specifically regarding somewhat well known individuals.

This is a fb group for friends who go bike riding together, no?

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Nearly every joke is offensive to someone, to try to avoid that would be the death of comedy.

Seriously, no one can take a goddamn joke anymore. If you can't laugh at yourself, I don't want to be friends with you.

 

[Nerokis]

I have a few female friends who hate wearing dresses. Everyone interacts with these conceptions of femininity and masculinity in their own way, and it will always be fun to play around with those conceptions - especially if this is a topic you care about.

 

[Coolwhip]

If you think this event is worthy of a book, I'm afraid your book wont sell a lot.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I keep reading this title as massages and am getting more disappointed every time I open the thread

 

[cryptic]

Why does everyone have to understand and place everyone and why does everyone have to explain themselves?*deep*

 

[squidyj]

It's always pretty meta when people get really aggressive and begin posturing in response to people criticizing offensive posts in a thread about someone upset that someone found his post offensive.

Are you a joke character? I honestly can't tell.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Are you a joke character? I honestly can't tell.

A joke character? Just because he is intentionally misconstruing ?oe?oe's joke?

I think we found your girl, OP

I don't think he is joking. Craig Ferguson and Patton Oswalt talk about this very type of attitude and it seems to fit him and the girls in the op pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcoWjPTq3bc#t=05m28s

 

[Tigress]

Someone misunderstood it and made a fuss about it. What I'm saying is it does seem as though any joke now is and can be seen as offensive to some. I shouldn't have to check my privilege whenever I talk to a friend, I shouldn't have to be super selective with my words. look, I fully am aware that I am a super privilege and therefore should not have any right to say what is and what is offensive. I fully understand that I have no leg to stand on but, I do think people are purposely looking for things to be upset over. Shit man I'm a SJW, I fight for the underprivileged, I hate the fact I was born privileged while others suffer. I'm just not seeing why or how this could be sexist, and why people need to make a fuss.

I understand the frustration of wanting to be able to just make jokes and not worry about it. But maybe instead of worrying about it, just if some one brings it up, try to understand why maybe they saw it that way.

I just tried to explain why some one might percieve that joke as bad. And really it isn't the joke that's the problem, it's the underlying cultural attitude that is the problem that leads to jokes like that. The jokes are just obvious targets cause they play on that attitude and make it more easy to see. I think though some thing that by making people think about the jokes they'll make them think more about the underlying attitudes that make the joke funny. And open their eyes to those attitudes.

And it is an underlying attitude of this culture. One that is so prevalent I'm not claiming that only males subscribe to it (I was really bad about it as a kid. Wasn't until college when I took some course that it was pointed out and I thought about it and realized I was guilty. I looked down on "female" things as bad. Being a housewife was not something you should want to do.. that's a lower thing <- people pointing out that the point isn't that females should do male occupations but should be free to do what they want kinda opened my eyes on that).

Think about this... guys cannot like female things without being ridiculed. And yet you don't see near this much attitude about females liking guy things. Why is that? I can like My Little Pony and not be near as ridiculed as a guy liking the same show. For me it's, "why do you like kid's shows. Grow up". For a guy it's, "Wow, bronies are so creepy!" The fact that guys who like the show have to group together to try to justify their like of the show is pretty bad in itself (It's not a bad show... well at least originally anyways, I am not so sure about later seasons. It teaches all kids, guys and girls, pretty good values, it is well written and can be enjoyed even if you are an adult). And I will admit there is some female toys/stuff that is crap (*cough* Bratz... *cough* No kid of mine will ever be allowed to play with that crap. let's teach kids to be snobby/petty and nothing actually useful/good in life).

There are plenty of good "chic flicks" that are downgraded just cause they are considered "chick flicks". Females only (Fried Green Tomatoes for example). Look at sitcoms and whatnot, they're always telling you that it should be ridiculous for a guy to like chick flicks and they don't like them (tv and games really do reflect our culture). When the female doesn't like "guy flicks" it's considered silly on her part (it's more justified for the guy not to want to watch a chick flick).

My point is that anything related to being seen as feminine is seen as inferior. And guys are better than that. It's ok for females though, we're just females. We're in general elevated if we like guy stuff though. And I really do think the joke plays on that for its humor (the absurd idea of the guys wearing a dress). I mean how absurd is it to think a woman would like wearing pants (unless you are joking about the guy not wearing the pants in the family, he's less man than his female)? That joke would just have our heads scratching as to what the joke was.

Anyways, it's not a joke that would upset me much, people play around and it's not like they are intentionally trying to be sexist (I could easily see it being used by people who try not to be. As I said, it's very much built into our culture and that is a hard thing to change. It's hard to get people to see somethign they've taken for granted their whole life). But I can understand the reason why some one would be upset by it *shrug*. Especially if some one refused to even see why they might be upset. And I do think it's important at least to point out why. Not to make the person say sorry, but to make people think more about those underlying cultural attitudes we take for granted.

 

[Zombine]

I don't get it. Who is wearing the dress? How does it look?

 

[Shanlei91]

Are you a joke character? I honestly can't tell.

Ashton Kutcher is about to pop out and tell you that you've been Punk'D

 

[Bodacious]

Getting massages for being sexy!?! Due to a post you made?!?

I need to post more.

 

[Kinitari]

I think some people take feminism very seriously, and that's not bad, however I think that means they will confront anything they think could be perceived as sexist.

This could be perceived as sexist, I say this because it has been. That's not to say this is anything particularly worth causing a hooplah over, or that anything said is overtly offensive, just that there are people that see almost any gendered comment as sexist, and the association with dresses seems to be gendered enough for some people.

It can be difficult socializing with people like this, because so much of our speech is gendered. It might feel like walking on eggshells. Especially when you feel like you constantly have to be worried about this blowing up and besmirching you in a larger social sphere.

All that being said, I don't think it's the right approach to look at anyone in particular as being in the wrong here. In my opinion, your comment was not negative, and I don't think it's really constructive how you are being treated (I feel like this sort of stuff pushes people away from feminism).

My advice though, is be the bigger person here. If you want to talk to your friend, say something like "hey, I would really appreciate it if I could talk to you about this more. I hate the idea of offending you, and I really appreciate your friendship so I want to fix this. I'm afraid of people thinking poorly of me, and I think maybe that's maybe coming off as me being dismissive, and I'm not trying to be. If there is something in the way I talk that I don't realize is sexist or offensive to people like you, friends of mine I want to think of me positively, I really do want to make myself a better person and cut them out, and having a healthy conversation about that could do me a lot of good. But if you don't want to, I'm just sorry I upset you and you think less of me because of it, and I hope one day that can change".

Something along those lines. It may seem like groveling, but I think it's a healthy attitude. Be open about wanting to improve yourself and be critical of any potential shortcomings you might have, emphasize that healthy communication is important for this, and emphasize that offending your friends is something you want to avoid doing. Now if she's unreasonable or even a bad person, she might not react positively to this, and then good riddance. If she's a good person who is also able to be self critical and maybe improve the way she communicates as well, she'll take this as an opportunity to sit down and talk.

I think it's important to remember that no one is perfect, everyone has flaws and makes mistakes. But it's always better to approach these things in the healthiest way, where self growth is at the forefront, in my opinion.

 

[leadbelly]

This is such a stupid, bulllshit quote, and I cringe every time someone posted it as if it'd a poetic construction of meaningful words while in reality it's just mainly hogwash.

Not entirely no. I don't know for sure what context Stephen Fry said it, but I have an idea of what it was. The quote is very similar to something Christopher Hitchens used to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbwDbsKeyjc

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

My advice though, is be the bigger person here. If you want to talk to your friend, say something like "hey, I would really appreciate it if I could talk to you about this more. I hate the idea of offending you, and I really appreciate your friendship so I want to fix this. I'm afraid of people thinking poorly of me, and I think maybe that's maybe coming off as me being dismissive, and I'm not trying to be. If there is something in the way I talk that I don't realize is sexist or offensive to people like you, friends of mine I want to think of me positively, I really do want to make myself a better person and cut them out, and having a healthy conversation about that could do me a lot of good. But if you don't want to, I'm just sorry I upset you and you think less of me because of it, and I hope one day that can change".

Something along those lines. It may seem like groveling, but I think it's a healthy attitude. Be open about wanting to improve yourself and be critical of any potential shortcomings you might have, emphasize that healthy communication is important for this, and emphasize that offending your friends is something you want to avoid doing. Now if she's unreasonable or even a bad person, she might not react positively to this, and then good riddance. If she's a good person who is also able to be self critical and maybe improve the way she communicates as well, she'll take this as an opportunity to sit down and talk.

I think it's important to remember that no one is perfect, everyone has flaws and makes mistakes. But it's always better to approach these things in the healthiest way, where self growth is at the forefront, in my opinion.

Yeah, this. This is an uncommon attitude, and it's really nice when people I know are like this. I feel like this is what your friend wanted and didn't get from you. Most people just respond to things with cynicism and defensiveness, which we can see throughout this thread.

 

[leadbelly]

Not entirely no. I don't know for sure what context Stephen Fry said it, but I have an idea of what it was. The quote is very similar to something Christopher Hitchens used to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbwDbsKeyjc

Just to explain this, just in case it isn't clear. Being offended does not constitute an argument. So like a response might be to a particularly controversial opinion, "I am offended". Well, so what? You are not actually presenting an argument. It means nothing.

It is offensive maybe to certain religious groups, to which Christoper Hitchens would say...

As the Youtube video demonstrates...

 

[Rest]

Here a screencap of what said before I got messages from the women. Sorry about the shitty censoring, on my phone. Name and locations edited out.

Hell, now that I reread it it is even more baffling to me.

We has actually had conversations with members a while ego to go for a meet up,and even having people bring dates so the group can grow. I found that restaurant, and its name is similar to something in our group. So I thought it was a good location.

The person who said it fits very well is the friend that I commenced about, for whom I said I bought the dress.

Seeing this, I don't really know how someone could be offended. While it's not exactly in the best of taste, I'm not able to see how someone could construe it to be hateful, subjugative, dismissive, resentful, belittling or demeaning to women. It's pretty innocuous.

 

[leakey]

I keep reading this title as massages and am getting more disappointed every time I open the thread

Came in here to say this, but I'll just reiterate it now.

 

[dripdripsplash]

I hate this picture.

Actually I hate people who posts pictures as a point instead of actually writing their own argument themselves a little more than that picture.

 

[Tigress]

Seeing this, I don't really know how someone could be offended. While it's not exactly in the best of taste, I'm not able to see how someone could construe it to be hateful, subjugative, dismissive, resentful, belittling or demeaning to women. It's pretty innocuous.

yeah, looking at that it's better than what OP described (though I don't think what OP described was necessarily horrible. Just that with the way he worded it I thought I could see the reasoning behind it).

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Nearly every joke is offensive to someone, to try to avoid that would be the death of comedy.

A famous person should say this. Then we could all quote it often, sometimes even in .jpg or .gif form.

 

[?oe?oe]

I hate this picture.

Actually I hate people who posts pictures as a point instead of actually writing their own argument themselves a little more than that picture.

There is no argument, just overreaction.

 

[Yrael]

Not entirely no. I don't know for sure what context Stephen Fry said it, but I have an idea of what it was. The quote is very similar to something Christopher Hitchens used to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbwDbsKeyjc

The original context was a debate that he had with Christopher Hitchens about blasphemy back in 2006.

Unfortunately, regardless of its original context it's one of those quotes that has been widely used to give sexist, racist and homophobic people carte blanche to continue being sexist, racist and homophobic. I think Stephen Fry would actually be pretty horrified (and yes, offended) by this, given his activism against homophobia and anti-semitism (I'd like to know if he's ever directly addressed this quote of his being so widely used on the Internet).

 

[Booshka]

Nearly every joke is offensive to someone, to try to avoid that would be the death of comedy.

Yep, so instead of getting offended and in an uproar, simply don't laugh and/or comment and move on with your day.

There are better, more worthy fights to be fought over than relatively harmless, hacky attempts at comedy. Raising the outrage flag over a joke is wasted energy in most cases.

 

[Princess Carl]

I think you're reading waaaay too much into this.

I don't. I don't think you put enough thought into it honestly.

If it is not clear, I am talking about his post and the veracity of what he is saying, not whether or not OP was being offensive/people need to lighten up, etc, etc..

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

there's simply not enough setup to the joke or any sort of elaboration on what the dress thing was about for anyone to be offended about that. it's pure projection- even from your friend.

i can understand if this was a daniel tosh skit showing guys wearing dresses or something and feeling very uncomfortable and lasting 5 minutes, but that short quote that's hardly even a sentence.... come on. sorry, but you have nothing to be upset about.

you're fine dude. you're cool in my book just for reaching out to another woman and then a forum to confirm whether or not you said something hurtful/wrong/etc. a lot of people these days won't take a good look at themselves and analyze the way they treat others- intentionally or not.

Spoiler

my response would to be to wear a dress for a day and have your guy friend tag along and take pics. show them you're comfortable with your sexuality and that you don't find there to be anything wrong with dresses or guys wearing them.

 

[Ol No Bones]

How dare you!

 

[Dénouement]

I kinda get how someone could get offended by that (or rather ...irked? Offensive seems like too much), but it's not "HOly SHIT how fuckin DARE you, you piece of SHIT *unfriend*" offensive.