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Getting rid of NAT Type 3

S

Spinluck

Member
Dear NAT Type 3,

Fuck off.

Kind regards,

Spindasher

I am about to get online with my friends to play some Last of Us online, and since classes start on Monday for us we are trying to get as much time in as we can. I play on a wired connection with a long ass Ethernet cable because

A. Wifi for gaming is for heathens and criminals (unless you have a godly connection) and

B. The wifi sucks assbutt at my room (the router here is garbage and none of my roommates seem to care).

Anyway, no matter how many times I play, it always resets to NAT type 3 and I end up having issues party chatting with friends or accepting invitations. The router is a belkin, and I cannot disconnect it from the modem because my roommates need wifi. How do I find a permanent bypass for this in my current situation? Any quick fixes?
 
Static IP + DMZ should do the trick.

Set a static IP on your console. Access your router settings and under the DMZ option put that IP in.
 
Why does NAT even exist? Genuine question. Always seemed a bit odd to me

Does NAT matter with dedicated servers?
 
If your router has a UPnP setting in it's options, check that off. It should more or less correct any issues, current and future, with hooking any consoles up to it.

randomrosso said:
Why does NAT even exist? Genuine question. Always seemed a bit odd to me

Does NAT matter with dedicated servers?
Click to expand...

Consoles are real shit about actually explaining this, but I think it's just a simplified method of telling users that you need certain ports open to be able to play with as many people as possible.

You need certain ports open for anything from accessing Xbox/PSN/Steam/whatever as well as to actual dedicated servers. Sometimes a lot if not most of them are already open, sometimes they're not. It varies a lot and stuff like built-in router/Windows firewalls tend to throw a wrench into the whole thing and fuck with that even more.
 
Gamespawn said:
Upgrade the firmware on your router as well if available.
Click to expand...

That doesn't matter. It has to do with his ISP/modem having a firewall and dynamic IP's set up while his router has to set a static IP for the things he wants to "by-pass" the NAT for.

Anyway, NAT-3 shouldn't be a huge issue outside of like... certain functions. I've been able to play The Last Of Us just fine with NAT-3. Unless you're trying to direct connect to someone and you're host, you shouldn't run into issues.

randomrosso said:
Why does NAT even exist? Genuine question. Always seemed a bit odd to me
Click to expand...

Because it's basically needed for IPv4 (and since IPv6 is a can of worms in regards to backwards compatibility, IIRC...)
 
I get an error on PS4 when I try to connect.

I'm using the static IP method and DMZ method, no dice. I'll get successful for the first 3 then an error on NAT type.
 
Are you on Cable or DSL? If DSL you may need to "bridge mode" your modem, which is easy but technically not supported by your ISP so if anything comes up that they need to check their end for, they'll go "tough shit" and not do anything about it. Just FYI.

I dunno the Cable end, but it should be a similar process in forcing one firewall that the ISP does for the connection to be lessened/lowered to where it forces your router to be the one that is the firewall for the connections/network which then changes the NAT from Type-3 to Type-2 (or possibly 1 but that's generally if you're direct connecting to the modem/cable).
 
Activating the DMZ on your router is highly unrecommended. You open your network to a lot of attacks.

Buy a better router, such as the ones sold at flashrouters. They come built-in with DD-WRT.
 
randomrosso said:
Why does NAT even exist? Genuine question. Always seemed a bit odd to me

Does NAT matter with dedicated servers?
Click to expand...

In short, because your ISP only gives you one IP but you have multiple machines connected to your router. The router needs to untangle the data going to that single IP and properly route it to the various devices that are actually looking for the traffic, it can only do that automatically for data that is a reply to outgoing data. Of course this means that the router has no idea what to do with unannounced incoming connections which you get a lot when hosting a game match. UPNP lets a device say "give me all unannounced connections coming to the port X" and setting up a DMZ tells the router "if you don't know where it should go send it to this device", both of these give someone from the internet a way to contact your console from the outside.

The way the NAT blocks unexpected incoming connections also makes it act as a firewall (since a hacker would try to connect to you from the outside) so letting unannounced connections through is obviously a risk. "Hacker" sounds like a rare thing here but many viruses also try to automatically hack other systems so it's still possible for something to try hacking you even if a human hacker would never care about you.
 
Network Address Translation exists because there is a finite number of ipv4 addresses available. Using NAT allows a router to "bridge" the connection for numerous devices without issuing them real public and routeable addresses.

NAT type 3 suggests to me that you are probably double NAT'd so what you want to do is get your wireless router to act as an access point rather than a router.

To test if this is the case connect something directly to your ISP modem via Ethernet and look at what IP you are given. If it starts with 10, 192 or 176 then you want to let it handle all routing, DHCP and NAT duties.

Every wireless router I've ever used can be setup to behave like an access point. To do this see if you can access the admin four ISP modem and setup a static IP that the wireless router can use. Next, enter the admin for the wireless router and assign its network/LAN address to the one you created in your ISP modem. Last thing is to disable the DHCP server on the wireless router. Once that is done, connect the wireless router to your ISP modem via a LAN port and NOT the WAN/Internet port.

If done properly your wireless devices will attach to the wireless router but get all network info from the ISP modem.

Also, the advice to disable UPnP isn't good. UPnP is how devices tell routers what ports need to be mapped to them on the fly. Without UPnP your playstation will probably continue to show NAT type 3, strict or restricted.
 
Luckily on my router (which I got when I joined my ISP Plusnet) there was an option that when checked automatically opened ports for my consoles. "Game Mode" it was called, or something. It's a pretty crap router apart from that nice feature. I think it's a Technicolor 582n.
 
Trying to play fighting games online with a NAT 3 connection is the fucking worst. It's a coin flip on whether or not you can connect with other people.
 
TheAngryMonkey said:
Network Address Translation exists because there is a finite number of ipv4 addresses available. Using NAT allows a router to "bridge" the connection for numerous devices without issuing them real public and routeable addresses.

NAT type 3 suggests to me that you are probably double NAT'd so what you want to do is get your wireless router to act as an access point rather than a router.

To test if this is the case connect something directly to your ISP modem via Ethernet and look at what IP you are given. If it starts with 10, 192 or 176 then you want to let it handle all routing, DHCP and NAT duties.

Every wireless router I've ever used can be setup to behave like an access point. To do this see if you can access the admin four ISP modem and setup a static IP that the wireless router can use. Next, enter the admin for the wireless router and assign its network/LAN address to the one you created in your ISP modem. Last thing is to disable the DHCP server on the wireless router. Once that is done, connect the wireless router to your ISP modem via a LAN port and NOT the WAN/Internet port.

If done properly your wireless devices will attach to the wireless router but get all network info from the ISP modem.

Also, the advice to disable UPnP isn't good. UPnP is how devices tell routers what ports need to be mapped to them on the fly. Without UPnP your playstation will probably continue to show NAT type 3, strict or restricted.
Click to expand...
This. 95% of the time folks can't get rid of NAT 3 or moderate/strict, it's because they're double NAT'd from both the modem and router.

I had to call my ISP and request they enable bridge mode on my modem. After that modem died, they flashed the new one to expose the bridge settings so I could enable it myself.
 
TheAngryMonkey said:
Network Address Translation exists because there is a finite number of ipv4 addresses available. Using NAT allows a router to "bridge" the connection for numerous devices without issuing them real public and routeable addresses.

NAT type 3 suggests to me that you are probably double NAT'd so what you want to do is get your wireless router to act as an access point rather than a router.

To test if this is the case connect something directly to your ISP modem via Ethernet and look at what IP you are given. If it starts with 10, 192 or 176 then you want to let it handle all routing, DHCP and NAT duties.

Every wireless router I've ever used can be setup to behave like an access point. To do this see if you can access the admin four ISP modem and setup a static IP that the wireless router can use. Next, enter the admin for the wireless router and assign its network/LAN address to the one you created in your ISP modem. Last thing is to disable the DHCP server on the wireless router. Once that is done, connect the wireless router to your ISP modem via a LAN port and NOT the WAN/Internet port.

If done properly your wireless devices will attach to the wireless router but get all network info from the ISP modem.

Also, the advice to disable UPnP isn't good. UPnP is how devices tell routers what ports need to be mapped to them on the fly. Without UPnP your playstation will probably continue to show NAT type 3, strict or restricted.
Click to expand...
My xbone tells me my NAT is open, but in-game lobby of cod ghosts tells me I'm moderate, even if my xbox is set with static IP and DMZ mode on the router. I assume I've got the double NAT thing going on as well.

If I plug my PC directly into my modem like you mention, and run cmd > ipconfig, I get an IP that starts with 192 (LAN IP?). If I go to whatismyip.com, it tells me another IP address which starts with 50 (WAN IP?) So I'm good to let the modem handle all routing, DHCP and NAT duties, right?

Your probably familiar with DD-WRT. I'm running the custom (Kong 22000++) firmware on an Asus RT-N16 router. If I set this up as an access point, will I still be able to use any of the DD-WRT features of the router? There is a bandwidth limiting for specific MAC addresses feature in QoS that I really want to keep working, which is not in the modem's firmware.

I have an option to enable uPnP in both my router and modem. If I don't do the access point thing, should I enable it in just one or both? What about if the router is acting as the access point? I still do this if I'm port forwarding as well?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. I get really bad laggy connections in some games, so I'm hoping I can resolve them.
 
TheSeks said:
That doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

And you know this how? Magical powers?

Perhaps in his current firmware upnp is broken? Perhaps in his current firmware there is no DMZ, or broken port forwarding? Or any number of other things?

Its always good to be on current firmware.

Stantron said:
My xbone tells me my NAT is open, but in-game lobby of cod ghosts tells me I'm moderate, even if my xbox is set with static IP and DMZ mode on the router.
Click to expand...

Your xbox is wrong. If you are behind a router you are not going to get an OPEN connection type (unless you bought your own IP range and if you knew that much about networking you would not be asking the question). Even in a DMZ the NAT is still active, there still needs to be a way for your router to distinguish traffic to your console and other network devices.
 
Just need to assign all your devices to a static IP then port forward the ones you need an open NAT and finally DMZ the console you use the most.

Also some games require additional ports opened along with PSN/XBL.

I just did this yesterday at the new place I'm staying at and it worked perfect.

Also assign good DNS servers. I stuck with Googles. But there are programs which can determine the best DNS for your connection.

8.8.8.8
8.8.4.4
 
Having a good router seems to be very underrated. I paid a fair amount for my AirPort Extreme, but the combined speed, stability, and range on it are so good that the difference between using it and the shitty 'router' that came included inside the ISP's mandatory cable modem was really night and day.
 
People using DMZ...stop. DMZ is like the most insecure thing ever. There should never be a case where DMZ is necessary for a game to function online (unless its super smash bros brawl lol)
Just open a port for the game manually. Also as Ve3tro mentioned custom DNS servers are pretty cool. Also avoid belkin.
 
LumpOfCole said:
Having a good router seems to be very underrated. I paid a fair amount for my AirPort Extreme, but the combined speed, stability, and range on it are so good that the difference between using it and the shitty 'router' that came included inside the ISP's mandatory cable modem was really night and day.
Click to expand...

It is indeed. I upgraded my D-Link DIR-655 that I've had for years and years and the network/router feels a lot snappier with the D-Link DIR-868L. Finally I have gigabit internet and now I can actually get those speeds with the router plugged in. Before that it was bottlenecking me at around 150-300Mbit/s but now I get more or less the full speed I would get if I connected the computer directly to my wall outlet.

3707921800.png


TLDR Upgrade to a good quality router to make your network awesome.
 
LumpOfCole said:
Having a good router seems to be very underrated. I paid a fair amount for my AirPort Extreme, but the combined speed, stability, and range on it are so good that the difference between using it and the shitty 'router' that came included inside the ISP's mandatory cable modem was really night and day.
Click to expand...

This. I've had router troubles for a long, long time, until I bought an Apple Airport Extreme. Huge upgrade in performance, range, and stability. Looks amazing as well.
 
Having some experiences with NAT I must say that the best way to get it sorted permanently would to contact your ISP. There are just too many variables. They might have an extra firewall on their side, your router might not be up to snuff etc. I suggest you give them a call and say (or lie) that you've done something already. Also if you can, I'd avoid mentioning Playstation. That might prompt them to pass the buck to Sony.
 
John Caboose said:
It is indeed. I upgraded my D-Link DIR-655 that I've had for years and years and the network/router feels a lot snappier with the D-Link DIR-868L. Finally I have gigabit internet and now I can actually get those speeds with the router plugged in. Before that it was bottlenecking me at around 150-300Mbit/s but now I get more or less the full speed I would get if I connected the computer directly to my wall outlet.

3707921800.png


TLDR Upgrade to a good quality router to make your network awesome.
Click to expand...

Freakin US and our horrible ISP's
 
John Caboose said:
It is indeed. I upgraded my D-Link DIR-655 that I've had for years and years and the network/router feels a lot snappier with the D-Link DIR-868L. Finally I have gigabit internet and now I can actually get those speeds with the router plugged in. Before that it was bottlenecking me at around 150-300Mbit/s but now I get more or less the full speed I would get if I connected the computer directly to my wall outlet.

3707921800.png


TLDR Upgrade to a good quality router to make your network awesome.
Click to expand...

Holy fast.
 
Painguy said:
People using DMZ...stop. DMZ is like the most insecure thing ever. There should never be a case where DMZ is necessary for a game to function online (unless its super smash bros brawl lol)
Just open a port for the game manually. Also as Ve3tro mentioned custom DNS servers are pretty cool. Also avoid belkin.
Click to expand...

This is true for many devices, but not consoles. Even though it might be insecure for a PC, consoles really don't over expose by going through untrusted sources. And as can't change any of the security settings, all traffic is done through carefully planned ports.

And don't forget all your activity (except web browser) is done on a secure connection to PSN or Xbox Live.

The firewall itself puts himself in a DMZ so he can be the first bastion when an incoming attack takes place, and also to translate your private IP to the public IP set on the firewall
 
DeadlyVirus said:
This is true for many devices, but not consoles. Even though it might be insecure for a PC, consoles really don't over expose by going through untrusted sources. And as can't change any of the security settings, all traffic is done through carefully planned ports.

And don't forget all your activity (except web browser) is done on a secure connection to PSN or Xbox Live.

The firewall itself puts himself in a DMZ so he can be the first bastion when an incoming attack takes place, and also to translate your private IP to the public IP set on the firewall
Click to expand...

Hmm that's interesting. I guess it makes sense. I mean there is always a risk involved with DMZ no matter what right? I guess maybe there is a lowered risk in this specific scenario. I probably should do some more reading. :P
 
Problem with DMZ is that it only works for one device. It basically sets a local IP as a dumping ground for unsolicited traffic.

Keep UPNP switched on, aim for NAT type 2. The console should be able to request the router to configure the correct ports for the current game. Static IP and DMZ is a sledgehammer; manually configuring port forwarding is a maintenance headache.
 
Aslong as you get nat 2 it´s ok, having the console in DMZ should not pose any risk, now doing that with the PC would be insane tho.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but so long as you're behind a router then the best you can get is Type 2. Type 1 applies to direct connections.
 
wsoxfan1214 said:
Still sticks me at type 2.

Dunno why
Click to expand...

Type 2 is fine according to PS FAQ. As long you have NAT Type 1 or 2 you are ok.

How the PS4™ system is connected to the Internet
This information can be used to judge the ease or difficulty of connecting to other PS4™ systems, such as when using communication features of games.
Type 1: The system is connected directly to the Internet.
Type 2: The system is connected to the Internet with a router.
Type 3: The system is connected to the Internet with a router.
With Type 3, communication with other PS4™ systems might be impossible, or the PS4™ system's network features might be limited.
Click to expand...
 
randomrosso said:
Why does NAT even exist? Genuine question. Always seemed a bit odd to me

Does NAT matter with dedicated servers?
Click to expand...

NAT/PAT exists, because there is a shortage of global IP addresses.
You usually have one IP address for your home connection, but have multiple devices that are online.
NAT (Network Address Translation) is used to translate the private local IP addresss of you device to one global IP address.
And PAT (Port Address Translation) is required to make it work, because the basic internet protocols use ports, and 2 devices might want to use the same port.


When you set up a dedicated server you want it to be reachable, so you either want no NAT, or at least NAT1 or NAT2.



AuthenticM said:
Activating the DMZ on your router is highly unrecommended. You open your network to a lot of attacks.
Click to expand...

Which attacks would taht be?

DMZ, meaning an exposed host on most commercial routers,
does not really pose a security risk if you use it for your PS3 or PS4 or typical console.
It would only be a problem, if there is a security vulnerability in the console's software, that would be reachable via DMZ.
Better save than sorry, but it is not a huge risk.


wsoxfan1214 said:
Still sticks me at type 2.

Dunno why
Click to expand...

Ask your ISP if you have a global IP address for yourself, or if Carrier Grade NAT is used.
 
Pikma said:
What's your router's exact model?
Click to expand...

Eh it's an old piece of shit Belkin. It just feels like cheap plastic when you pick it up. The post that are saying we should upgrade our router are right.

John Caboose said:
It is indeed. I upgraded my D-Link DIR-655 that I've had for years and years and the network/router feels a lot snappier with the D-Link DIR-868L. Finally I have gigabit internet and now I can actually get those speeds with the router plugged in. Before that it was bottlenecking me at around 150-300Mbit/s but now I get more or less the full speed I would get if I connected the computer directly to my wall outlet.

3707921800.png


TLDR Upgrade to a good quality router to make your network awesome.
Click to expand...

Stahp

TerryWogan said:
Are homeplugs an option for you? Better connection than WiFi and Ethernet solved my NAT Type problems too.
Click to expand...
Homeplugs?
 
If you have assigned a static ip on the router.. Don't explicitly set it on the playstation.. Just have that set to auto
 
Port forward the correct ports for that IP.
As also mentioned, update router firmware incase there is a bug regarding open ports.

"Plastic belkin router" description isn't going to help. What's the model on the base sticker or plastic?
 
zFVZE.png


shows which can connect to which,

1 = open
2 = moderate
3 = strict

as said before, 1 or 2 is fine, turn off upnp as it is not needed to get 2

consoles should add a warning on the boxes ie: NAT Type 1 or 2 is required for an optimal online experience
 
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