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[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

They are making a new Star Wars RPG game, right?

 

[Yeul]

They are making a new Star Wars RPG game, right?

If you're thinking of the Amy Hennig one then no that's Visceral.

 

[A-V-B]

Not to reopen old wombs but I honestly have no idea how Bioware could act like Deer in Headlights over the backlash after spending years hyping up how choice matters and how the player would totally get a conclusive "Golden Ending."

Dude that's some Silent Hill-level shit right there

 

[Lime]

I wonder about what perspectives we will have later on about Andromeda's development. 5 years is a long time of development and the marketing of the game has been incredibly rocky, so I could imagine development has at least hit some snags here and there.

 

[Zolo]

I wonder about what perspectives we will have later on about Andromeda's development. 5 years is a long time of development and the marketing of the game has been incredibly rocky, so I could imagine development has at least hit some snags here and there.

Gonna take a wild guess that the two main ones will be:

Similar complaints about open world as Inquisition though will probably still be considered an improvement in comparison.

Safe, generic, and boring story.

 

[_machine]

Not to reopen old wombs but I honestly have no idea how Bioware could act like Deer in Headlights over the backlash after spending years hyping up how choice matters and how the player would totally get a conclusive "Golden Ending."

You tend to become pretty blind to your own product in development, especially closer to the end you get (which is why Naughty Dog for example thought tLoU might tank completely). There's a lot factors that make it a reality, but seeing a product transform completely, whilst never being able to view in any close form to how players would see it, to making millions of gut decisions during the project contribute to the effect dramatically.

 

[Lime]

Gonna take a wild guess that the two main ones will be:

Similar complaints about open world as Inquisition though will probably still be considered an improvement in comparison.

Safe, generic, and boring story.

I was more thinking about the development situation of Andromeda rather than how the game will turn out.

 

[michaelius]

They are making a new Star Wars RPG game, right?

Nope Old Republic is KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8.... according to them (and only them)

 

[Madness]

Never read that before, but I always just assumed it was "organic software", and it would always make me envision a cyborg.

This always really irked me. I never really understood the massive backlash and crying over the last few minutes of the game. Yeah, the outtro was pretty bad, but it's like I've said before: the ending didn't somehow negate the enjoyment someone had that led up to that point, and I also felt like there were multiple points in the game where it could have simply ended already. But it just kept going, for better or worse.

Why did this irk you? The best analogy for the ending ever was said by someone else and I still remember it. Imagine you have a bowl of cereal. It is the best tasting cereal. It brings back memories of the past, it is sugary and the milk tastes good and you are enjoying yourself. Then at the end, you see a giant turd just as the cereal is done. You've already eaten the cereal, you didn't see the turd nor taste it and yet, it is there, you can't not think about the turd, no longer is this the best cereal you've had, but a turd filled cereal that makes you ill and queasy etc.

This was someone else analogy but it made sense. The ending was complete garbage. It did negate everything you did. Years spent, multiple playthroughs of hours, all for some ham fisted cookie cutter ending that made little sense. Went against everything they made about the game. They acknowledge it above. A series made around choice and world building and whatnot and yet they remove it all at the end.

 

[patapuf]

Why did this irk you? The best analogy for the ending ever was said by someone else and I still remember it. Imagine you have a bowl of cereal. It is the best tasting cereal. It brings back memories of the past, it is sugary and the milk tastes good and you are enjoying yourself. Then at the end, you see a giant turd just as the cereal is done. You've already eaten the cereal, you didn't see the turd nor taste it and yet, it is there, you can't not think about the turd, no longer is this the best cereal you've had, but a turd filled cereal that makes you ill and queasy etc.

This was someone else analogy but it made sense. The ending was complete garbage. It did negate everything you did. Years spent, multiple playthroughs of hours, all for some ham fisted cookie cutter ending that made little sense. Went against everything they made about the game. They acknowledge it above. A series made around choice and world building and whatnot and yet they remove it all at the end.

and it wasn't "just" the ending. Tuchanka was cool, the quarian/geth was ok though way too convenient but a lot of the other stuff really wasn't well written story wise. The "superweapon" plot point, Earth and the kid, the ridiculous cyber ninja that had no introduction, the council and citadel, ect.

As an epic conclusion it fell kind of flat and they often ignored their own established lore. I liked ME3 overall but in terms of narrative it was pretty weak.

 

[Mozendo]

and it wasn't "just" the ending. Tuchanka was cool, the quarian/geth was ok though way too convenient but a lot of the other stuff really wasn't well written story wise. The "superweapon" plot point, Earth and the kid, the ridiculous cyber ninja that had no introduction, the council and citadel, ect.

As an epic conclusion it fell kind of flat and they often ignored their own established lore. I liked ME3 overall but in terms of narrative it was pretty weak.

Was there a reason for this? It seems that ME3 had completely different writers than ME1 & 2.

 

[Paganmoon]

Great read, probably the first article of GI I've read from start to finish since getting the digital sub back a few months back. Hope we see more like this.

 

[toddhunter]

Dragon Age II:
- Admit they tried to streamline it too far, in part to meet the tight production timeline. Failed to deliver on variety, a strong plot and premise. Over focus on action in the new combat system.

Dragon Age: Inquisition:
- Most successful game launch at BioWare.

Ladies and gentlemen, the AAA game industry. Where all the wrong lessons are learned and you succeed anyway.

 

[BossDarkseid]

Was there a reason for this? It seems that ME3 had completely different writers than ME1 & 2.

It did not. I mean probably some new staff but most people had been on the series since Day 1. Like Mac Walters wrote Garrus + Wrex specifically in ME1 and a variety of other bits....apparently once the plot got leaked...however many months before ME3 launched, EA were panicking about the reception and wanted BioWare to change it which is why you get some concepts that weren't really introduced throughout the series popping up right at the end. It's like if you've got a dark matter plot worked out then get told to change it you kinda end up going to the "easiest" option with a deus ex machina for the Reapers.

I think also BioWare were fairly open post release about how difficult they'd found making a trilogy to be, when tracking all your save states etc. There's a incredibly huge number of permutations and choices you can make throughout the trilogy but they didn't really have any technology to track it so your choices mattered in some broad sense rather than in details (like the Rachni Queen bit basically being the same), and I believe they've said that although Andromeda is not the start of a new trilogy they have improved their tech for checking player choices (with Dragon Age Keep acting as a prototype on their end) so they can better reflect things going forward.

The EA stuff seems to have largely changed under their "new(ish)" leadership, like BioWare having to cut Javik out of the main game for a pre order DLC even when he was in the game months before launch (you can see him in a Behind The Scenes video when they were whiteboxing levels).

 

[RocknRola]

Well, I enjoyed Inquisition..not sure what was so wrong with it, besides a weak 3rd act. The plot was fun for those already invested in the series (my case). Hopefully ME:A enjoys similar levels of success (likely more, being a more popular series and all) and is a good return to form too (though ME2 and ME3 were pretty damn good games already, all things considered).

 

[Bisnic]

Well, Andromeda is meant to have a story that largely concludes itself within one game (not to say it won't leave any room for sequels). So if it bombs then at least we won't be left hanging. That counts for something.

The chances that Andromeda bombs(despite the hate on ME3 ending and the weird marketing going on right now) is almost near zero, so I don't think we have to worry about this being the last ME game lol.

 

[Croatoan]

Superheroes (X-Men in particular) are such an obvious fit for Bioware. Really wish they would do a game in that area.

 

[Ridesh]

The chances that Andromeda bombs(despite the hate on ME3 ending and the weird marketing going on right now) is almost near zero, so I don't think we have to worry about this being the last ME game lol.

It is zero? are you sure?

The marketing has been AWFUL so far.

 

[xealo]

They are making a new Star Wars RPG game, right?

Unknown. Bioware has an unannounced project that's not dragon age at their main studios in Canada, but what that may turn out to be we won't know for years.

 

[Bisnic]

It is zero? are you sure?

The marketing has been AWFUL so far.

It is, but the game is still months away. If we're not flowed with TV & online ads, and more trailers/videos, one month before release, I guess we can start to worry about potential bomb, but until then... nah. Mass Effect isn't Deus Ex.

 

[Sub_Level]

Mass Effect isn't Deus Ex.

 

[Lanf]

Wow, great write up. Might buy the digital issue to read it all. FFVII influencing BG2? First I hear about that.

14 months on DA2... Such a shame, this game had so much potential. I'll join the few others in here that really like the game despite its faults. Just imagine if Kirkwall had looked and felt like Novigrad for example.

I don't really have it in me right now to forge another essay on why ME2 is the #5 of all time game for me but ME3 is #4, but needless to say I absolutely adore them both. That said, ME2 is considerably more cohesively designed and its deltas are far less noticeable. ME3's peaks, however, are higher than anything in 2. ME3 is also just plain more flawed overall; conversation options can be spartan, auto-dialogue is a plague, Shepard is more or less separate shades of the same person like never before.

And yet...? 3 still narrowly, narrowly tops 2 for me. It delivers on so much that I wanted. Its critical path is far more urgent and "epic" of scope. These are obviously just personal preference things and I've seen it said time and again that the smaller scale of 2 is one of its major reasons for success. And I get that, even. But building up to the war across the first two games and then scrambling to mount a historic alliance last-ditch defense against an ancient unyielding evil is just great.

Agree wholeheartedly. But I'm curious now, what does the rest of that top 5 look like?

 

[tomhan]

Fascinating write up, thanks for the cliff's notes. I love Mass Effect and I'm looking forward to Andromeda but I think I really would have preferred a new IP for this generation.

In this same vein the last thing I want from them is a new Star Wars based RPG, give us something new and unique.

 

[Rellik]

I actually played a modified Neverwinter Nights in my Computer Science classes during college. It was a modded education build of the game from one of our tutors, and had support from BioWare themselves. I remember having to answer Maths questions to get through locked doors, and things of that nature. They sent our college some free goodies including a huge Mass Effect promo cutout and that's how I discovered Mass Effect.

Really looking forward to Andromeda. I think I've finally burned myself out on the original trilogy after hundreds of hours on each game and I'm ready to move on to a new story in that wonderful universe they've managed to build.

Dragon Age has actually got worse for me. Origins was amazing and took many hours from my life, but II and Inquisition were huge disappointments. It's going to be interesting to see where Dragon Age goes next. Personally, I just want something similar to Origins but with modern graphics. The way Origins looked was dated even when it released.

 

[anthraxus]

Not a fan of Bioware's post Baldurs Gate games as they stopped caring about providing deeper RPG mechanics and started going the cinematic westernized dating sim route that they are well known for today.

(NWN toolkit was pretty cool though)

 

[Killzig]

It is zero? are you sure?

The marketing has been AWFUL so far.

When has Bioware's marketing ever been good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFSKkQRW8A

 

[EatChildren]

Wow, great write up. Might buy the digital issue to read it all. FFVII influencing BG2? First I hear about that.

They felt a lot of competitiveness, apparently, as FFVII was critically acclaimed for its strong cast of characters. Hence whey they really double downed on the companion dialogue, quests, and romances in Baldur's Gate II.

It's kinda funny to think that FFVII in turn impacted a lot of what BioWare heavily focuses on to this day.

 

[BrassDragon]

When has Bioware's marketing ever been good?

Sometimes, perhaps not often enough, they really nail it:

https://youtu.be/Y2O-0-fQOOs

https://youtu.be/uO2h4qUNJ60

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Why did this irk you? The best analogy for the ending ever was said by someone else and I still remember it. Imagine you have a bowl of cereal. It is the best tasting cereal. It brings back memories of the past, it is sugary and the milk tastes good and you are enjoying yourself. Then at the end, you see a giant turd just as the cereal is done. You've already eaten the cereal, you didn't see the turd nor taste it and yet, it is there, you can't not think about the turd, no longer is this the best cereal you've had, but a turd filled cereal that makes you ill and queasy etc.

This was someone else analogy but it made sense. The ending was complete garbage. It did negate everything you did. Years spent, multiple playthroughs of hours, all for some ham fisted cookie cutter ending that made little sense. Went against everything they made about the game. They acknowledge it above. A series made around choice and world building and whatnot and yet they remove it all at the end.

A lot of people like the ending how it is (albeit with Leviathan and EC it's much, much better), so to some the aforementioned turd is actually a chocolate bar in their cereal, a damn fine way to end your breakfast.

I'm one of these people, I feel blessed

Spoiler

I'm also an indoctrination theory head, so there's that.

I really like this interview too: Mr Flynn has a good head on his shoulders, the highlighting of the older ME1 un-used concepts with new enthusiasm from devs who grew up playing Mass Effect before becoming devs, it's a good symbiosis: should make for a better game than the Hinterlands.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Well, I enjoyed Inquisition..not sure what was so wrong with it, besides a weak 3rd act. The plot was fun for those already invested in the series (my case). Hopefully ME:A enjoys similar levels of success (likely more, being a more popular series and all) and is a good return to form too (though ME2 and ME3 were pretty damn good games already, all things considered).

People on GAF is not the game buying public at large. Inquisition was generally well received.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Dragon Age: Inquisition:
- Most successful game launch at BioWare.

this worries me. if this is what was successful and what EA feel people want, i'm seriously scared mass effect andromeda is just going to be inquisition with a sci-fi coat of paint. and given i absolutely hated inquisition that is not a good thing.

 

[djtiesto]

They felt a lot of competitiveness, apparently, as FFVII was critically acclaimed for its strong cast of characters. Hence whey they really double downed on the companion dialogue, quests, and romances in Baldur's Gate II.

It's kinda funny to think that FFVII in turn impacted a lot of what BioWare heavily focuses on to this day.

For the longest time I always thought western RPG devs were pretty snobbish toward Japanese/console RPGs but I'm glad to see that at least back in the day this wasn't the case.

 

[Ralemont]

It is zero? are you sure?

The marketing has been AWFUL so far.

It's not zero, but we haven't seen a lot from the game, what we've seen hasn't been great, and yet it still won the Golden Joystick for most anticipated game. I think it'll sell fine.

 

[Mozendo]

When has Bioware's marketing ever been good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFSKkQRW8A

I really loved The Old Republic marketing ;_;

 

[meerak]

lol "worked as doctors to make ends meet," that's the funniest thing I've read in weeks. I realize the context of that bullet point, but still, thanks for the laughs.

Anyways! Interesting points..

 

[Ridesh]

It's not zero, but we haven't seen a lot from the game, what we've seen hasn't been great, and yet it still won the Golden Joystick for most anticipated game. I think it'll sell fine.

It just seems to me that the game is riding the trilogy popularity, but general awareness is still low.

I don't know why it's so difficult for BioWare to release a proper trailer to get people excited, like for example The Witcher 3 'Sword of Destiny' trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtVdAasjOgU

 

[Lime]

I really loved The Old Republic marketing ;_;

That was by Blur Studios, not Bioware or EA.

 

[dr_rus]

The chances that Andromeda bombs(despite the hate on ME3 ending and the weird marketing going on right now) is almost near zero, so I don't think we have to worry about this being the last ME game lol.

Well, if MEA will end up being a synthesis (pun intended) of ME3 and DAI then I'd probably prefer that there would be no more Mass Effect games after that.

Seriously, how far can you fall from the highs of BG/KOTOR? I personally can't decide if I consider ME1 or DA1 the last truly great game Bioware produced. They need to rethink their approach to new games, and it's a good sign that they like TW3 at least, shows that they still have proper taste if anything.

 

[djtiesto]

Some fans get tribal about it, I guess, but I can't think of any key development figures who do. All those 90's/early 00's cRPGs were very heavily influenced by Square RPGs. Planescape: Torment overtly so.

Interviews with Black Isle/Bioware staff from those days and today often point this out.

I remember reading some interviews with Bioware people where they were pretty standoffish about things, but it was during that whole "Japanese games suck" era of last gen.

Anyways, do you have any interesting interviews from 90's CRPG devs?