Are you trying not to understand? I'll break it down to its core.
A man comes home from work for 20 years at the same time, everyday.
One day the man comes home one hour later. His wife asks him about it. The man doesn't answer.
I am Jeff's wife!
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Giant Bomb GOTY 2015 - Metal Gear Meets Its Mario Maker
- Thread starter daydream
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Are you trying not to understand? I'll break it down to its core.
A man comes home from work for 20 years at the same time, everyday.
One day the man comes home one hour later. His wife asks him about it. The man doesn't answer.
I am Jeff's wife!
It would be hilarious but I was looking forward to playing it.
Instead I got shat on. At least it was free I guess.
BlastProcessing
Member
Aaaaaand it just got creepy.
Except all of our Jeff knowledge comes from what we hear on Bombcasts, UPFs, and whatever scraps we can piece together. It's not like we know him intimately.
So you're more like Jeff's neighbor two doors down.
Where did Austin say this?
Austin said this in the GOTY casts? When? That doesn't seem like it would fly
Austin said this, but I'm 99% sure what he meant isn't what you're saying.
fierrotlepou
Member
Maybe in the Beastcast? I have no idea.
I remember him saying this, but I am 90% certain he wasn't talking about Jeff. I think he was talking about whatever game he was being forced to argue against. Going against that game was like going against Jesus.
Yep.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If they didn't want that to happen they shouldn't have been fighting so hard for a game they don't know the ending of to win Best Story.
It's ridiculous to expect Jeff or anyone else to tip toe around spoilers in a Best Story discussion. They straight up tell everyone listening that there will be spoilers when they start the podcast. There is no reason that shouldn't extend to the people in the room. Especially when those people are fighting for the game about to get spoiled to win an award that revolves around story.
drhankmccoyphd
Member
Does anyone have a time stamp for the goty talk on day 5?
WrenchNinja
Member
One hour six minutes I believe
ShockingAlberto
Member
Similarly, you can't argue against Best Story by reading a summary on a Wiki.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
You can when no one else knows the rest of the story.
Well, they all tiptoed around MGSV spoilers for Drew for almost the whole week. Even so, it's not so much the idea of spoiling LiS that bothered me. Jeff didn't spoil anything, he just looked at a plot summary for a few seconds and informed Vinny, Austin and Alex that they wouldn't like episodes 4 and 5. That was absurd. He hadn't played it. He hadn't played any of it. Had he played it and felt that spoiling it was important to the discussion, no one would have any objection.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The argument was that no one finished it. The only thing they had to go on was a wiki. Jeff wouldnt have even brought it out if someone already knew the ending.
It shouldn't even be in the running. Witcher III shouldn't have been either.
MGS wasn't getting fought for for Best Story. Drew wasnt sitting there during Best Story going "I know I haven't finished it but I really think it should get on this list." If he had I'm sure he would have something spoiled for him to explain why it's not worth being on the list.
You guys are acting like Jeff threw out these spoilers during Best Styyyle or something.
Haunted
Member
Giantbomb goty is not about finding the 10 best games of the year, it's about finding the 10 games the crew members liked the most. That's a completely different objective.
GB was specifically created to go away from the Gamespot paradigm of "we need to review every game, we need to quantify a game's quality using a mathematic formula, we need to make consumer recommendations".
They've consciously detached themselves from the "critic" label, so Jeeve's argument, while perfectly understandable when talking about any other game journalist website (IGN, Gamespot, Eurogamer etc) comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of what Giantbomb is and what Jeff doesn't want it to be.
You can like that or you can dislike it, but expressing disappointment at what they are at this point seems misguided and several years too late.
GB was specifically created to go away from the Gamespot paradigm of "we need to review every game, we need to quantify a game's quality using a mathematic formula, we need to make consumer recommendations".
They've consciously detached themselves from the "critic" label, so Jeeve's argument, while perfectly understandable when talking about any other game journalist website (IGN, Gamespot, Eurogamer etc) comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of what Giantbomb is and what Jeff doesn't want it to be.
You can like that or you can dislike it, but expressing disappointment at what they are at this point seems misguided and several years too late.
You shouldn't argue for best story when you're only halfway through
I agree that it shouldn't have been in the running, I just think that "you haven't seen 2/5 of the game, in a game that is basically all about story" should have been sufficient to shut it down.
The Dear Leader
Banned
Sure does, I've put 5 hours into in the last 2 days, it's a really fun game.
ReginaldXIV
Member
This post is 2 parts creepy and 1 part depressing. I think you just crossed a line between entertainer and fan than no one should ever cross.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Isn't that how the discussion started out? From what I remember it was GBeast essentially saying "Yeah we haven't finished it yet, but what's there is really good and I think that should put it in the running." That's when Jeff had to go look up the ending and go "Look, this might not end up as satisfying as you guys think it might."
I'm still shocked that
made its way onto the list, and the way it made its way onto the list.
Not saying that it's not a good game, or even a great game, or anything about the game, the process just felt kind of... unusual.
I'm definitely looking forward to trying it out after Austins passion about the game though.
invisible inc
Not saying that it's not a good game, or even a great game, or anything about the game, the process just felt kind of... unusual.
I'm definitely looking forward to trying it out after Austins passion about the game though.
PanicFreak
Member
I really want to try that game too. If only it was on the Xbox One...
RecRoulette
Member
He said that what happens in episode 4 and 5 doesn't build on what they said they loved about the first 3 episodes. He wasn't wrong about that.
Episode 4 and 5 are focused on Max and Chloe and solving all of the mysteries around town. All of that side stuff gets pushed aside.
I think that saying "Look, this might not end up as satisfying as you guys think it might" should, well, go without saying. A game, a movie, a book; anything can let you down at the end. He didn't need to look it up to make that point.
Besides, it's not a very strong way to argue that point, because the opposite could just as easily be true. They could end up loving the ending. Jeff was speaking without having any real context about the ending or how they might perceive it.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
It is literally the only way to argue the point when the people arguing against you don't just back down when trying to argue that something they don't know the ending of has the Best Story. You're right, it should go without saying, because the issue should have never been fought for that hard in the first place. But it didn't go without saying, so it had to be said.
He was taking what the GBeast guys liked about the first three episodes, reading what the remainder of the game had to offer and tried to contextualize it against what they liked of what they played. I don't know what else you want someone to do in that position. His only options were to put it on the list, have them spoil the game themselves by reading what happens, or read up on it himself and try to piece it all together.
Austin did a Brad/Destiny with that game.
It honestly didn't bother me at all. I've said this before, but I'd rather they include a game one person cares passionately about than something like The Witcher, that had like three people go "yeah, I guess so".
Zomba13
Member
True. But they did put The Witcher 3 on the list for best story when they hadn't finished and on average got as far comparatively through the game as the Beast did through LiS. People enjoyed the story of what they played of TW3 so put that on the list even though they didn't finish it and had no clue if things wrapped up well or if plot lines came together but LiS didn't because the Beast didn't finish the game and see if the plot wrapped up well or if plot lines came together.
It's just nobody spoiled themselves on TW3 and said "Eh.. it kinda goes to shit in the back end".
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Oh, I agree. I think it's dumb that Witcher III got on there as well. I think they should have done the same for Witcher III too.
Their treatment of W3 was weird all around. It really felt like it was the one game that made their list because it was "supposed to be there", rather than them wanting it there.
Oh man, this Hearts of Stone DLC is getting really good. For a hot minute I was wondering what all the unanimous fuss was about, but damn it's going in a really cool direction. I like this a lot.
Dammit, I wanted to post this in the main GB thread. I have to unsubscribe from this GOTY nonsense.
Dammit, I wanted to post this in the main GB thread. I have to unsubscribe from this GOTY nonsense.
BlastProcessing
Member
It's a pet peeve of mine when somebody tries to make the "There are only X options here" argument. There are actually more options than that. The idea that they have to see every single part of a game (or even the relevant element of a game) to make decisions on it is not part of their Game of the Year proceedings at all.
Everyone didn't see every frame of the Best Style winner or hear every song in Best Music. They sure as hell didn't have total knowledge of their Worst Game winner. A part, if it's strong enough, can absolutely be enough. Especially in an episodic game where they have played through multiple, semi contained, story beats. Jeff absolutely had the option of deferring to the direct experience of others which is something that happens quite often in their deliberations.
Haunted
Member
Brad got Destiny on the list through clever exploitation of the process and filibustering it against people who actively disliked it after playing it.
Austin made a passionate argument for a game everyone who played it was positive on and those who didn't (like Jeff) chose to trust the judgement of the person they just hired.
You could compare the two as one-man crusades to get a game on the list, but I know whose method I respect more.
I agree. Im a W3 fan and i expected them to shrug it aside on all categories going into the episodes.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Yeah, but in all of those situations at least some of them had experienced those things. Literally none of them know the ending of Life Is Strange. There was at least one person in all of those situations who could go "Yes, this definitely deserves this." Literally zero people on staff could say that about LiS.
And the majority of them weren't even on the side fighting for it in the first place. It was a minority opinion with not much to back it.
Brad got Destiny on the list through clever exploitation of the process and filibustering it against people who actively disliked it after playing it.
Austin made a passionate argument for a game everyone who played it was positive on and those who didn't (like Jeff) chose to trust the judgement of the person they just hired.
You could compare the two as one-man crusades to get a game on the list, but I know whose method I respect more.
Maybe I'm not remembering right, but didn't both Dan and Vinny who had played Invisible Inc. not really like it? Not that I disagree with it making the list, Austin clearly had one main goal going in and did a great job following through.
crisdecuba
Member
He was talking about going against Mario Maker.
Infinite Justice
Member
IIRC they liked it but it didn't stick due to the time they put in (which wasn't a lot)
Zomba13
Member
I definitely think you don't need the full picture for some categories. Like best style or graphics can be conveyed through video clips and pictures to those who didn't play and they can understand the appeal and you don't need to finish the game to appreciate the graphics or music or style. Same for Best Moment/Sequence, you just need that bit to stand out on its own.
For something like Best Story though I think you need the whole picture. It's not "Best third of a game we think holds the quality throughout". They have a category for the best little bit of a game which could be a cool sequence or an interesting story. I don't think TW3 or LiS should have been discussed for Best Story but I do think at least LiS has the advantage due to it being an episodic game and sold as individual episodes (or a season pass style thing) so you could argue that the story of Episode 2 or 3 is the best story rather than the entire thing if you've not experienced it. Same with The Witcher 3 DLC, that could stand up as best story separate from the full game.
With the overall GOTY discussion though I think all that matters is that someone there has beat the game to "vouch" for it. Like Austin and Invisible Inc. It was his number 1, he loved it, he gave a great defence and the list is the staffs favourite games of the year so it fits to let the number 1 of someone onto the list, even if it was low down on the overall list.
For something like Best Story though I think you need the whole picture. It's not "Best third of a game we think holds the quality throughout". They have a category for the best little bit of a game which could be a cool sequence or an interesting story. I don't think TW3 or LiS should have been discussed for Best Story but I do think at least LiS has the advantage due to it being an episodic game and sold as individual episodes (or a season pass style thing) so you could argue that the story of Episode 2 or 3 is the best story rather than the entire thing if you've not experienced it. Same with The Witcher 3 DLC, that could stand up as best story separate from the full game.
With the overall GOTY discussion though I think all that matters is that someone there has beat the game to "vouch" for it. Like Austin and Invisible Inc. It was his number 1, he loved it, he gave a great defence and the list is the staffs favourite games of the year so it fits to let the number 1 of someone onto the list, even if it was low down on the overall list.
The comparison to best music and style doesnt really work since the people arguing that those were the best had actually seen every frame and heard every song for those categories. They also referenced youtube and google to show off those elements to others who hadnt.
Recognizing parts of a story is what the best moments category is for and LiS got recognition there. It ends up not mattering much anyway since Jeff's comment isnt what got LiS cut, Austin even countered saying that hes heard that episode 4 is even better than 3. What got LiS cut was really Alex dumping on LiS' characters and persuading everyone to go with Witcher.
awesomegamername
Banned
I'm almost done listening to Day 5.
I just want to say, the Giant Bomb guys are so far ahead of literally every other gaming outlet today in terms of quality. You can just tell they have experience that goes back years with games. Good stuff.
Also, Jeff knows his crap. Not poop, but video games. I respect that guys knowledge.
I just want to say, the Giant Bomb guys are so far ahead of literally every other gaming outlet today in terms of quality. You can just tell they have experience that goes back years with games. Good stuff.
Also, Jeff knows his crap. Not poop, but video games. I respect that guys knowledge.
BlastProcessing
Member
Galak-Z won best style. That game has enough randomization that nobody has seen all of it. It is also an episodic game where the last episode has yet to be released. All of this is fine. That's my point.
The original point of discussion wasn't whether or not LiS should win. It not winning is fine. The only point was that Jeff citing a Wiki summary was an odd move.
Again, it's ok for it not to win. But Galak-Z is also a game where literally none of them have seen it all. To my knowledge, Season 5 still isn't released, yes? My point is that this is par for the course. Giving a vague prediction of how someone else would, hypothetically, react to a game element based on a bullet point summation of the end of a story on a Wiki is not par for the course.
That's it.
It's not a big deal. They were tired. But it's odd.
Finally wrapped up the podcast. I rarely listen to podcasts on the weekend, so I had to find some time here and there to wrap it up.
Was worried for a bit that Brad was going to whine MGSV to the top spot. While having not played MM, MGSV doesn't deserve a top spot on a GotY list because of the broken nature of the 2nd half of the game along with all the shit Konami has done post launch to suck the fanbase dry with it's online and microtransaction shenanigans.
All in all, good year and a damn good list. Now on to the last vid of the year.
Was worried for a bit that Brad was going to whine MGSV to the top spot. While having not played MM, MGSV doesn't deserve a top spot on a GotY list because of the broken nature of the 2nd half of the game along with all the shit Konami has done post launch to suck the fanbase dry with it's online and microtransaction shenanigans.
All in all, good year and a damn good list. Now on to the last vid of the year.
PuppetMaster
Member
Post launch MGS5 is even better.
FACT they have made the grind for GMP and resoures much easier post launch. People who play the game today will have MUCH less resource issues than at launch.
People got thier panties so twisted about the microtransaction that they ignore this.
And yet they talked about how Rorie had ended up going into the negative on GMP because of the limits placed offline. Whether the problem is exaggerated or not, they know someone personally who was negatively affected by the changes. I don't really care, I finished the game before these changes, but Konami were the ones that decided to add limits to what resources/gmp you could access while offline if you build a fob so it is fair to call them out on it.