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[Ventilaator]

I sort of wish these indie horror games would find something more creative to do than *SUDDEN JUMP SCARES WITH WEIRD/CREEPY IMAGE*

Totally. Why isn't there a game called "Indie horror game: the game" yet? Such an easy target for parody. I'm scared had the right idea with the install folder screwing. They need to do more than have you walk from point A to B, then turn around to see a monster.

 

[Incandenza]

Jump scares / screamers are the fart jokes of horror.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Watching Spookin' just after that section, glad Patrick calls it out appropriately.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Because Brock Lesnar isn't a good in-ring performer and is terrible on the mic and nobody likes Vicki Guerrero.

But Brock is an excellent in the ring performer, is the most intimidating looking guy on the roster, and has Heyman as a mouth piece so he doesn't need to speak.

 

[randomlyrossy]

I am confident this is the best piece of Giant Bomb fanart of all time

I'm at a loss as to who the dude on the far right is. I'm assuming second from right cleaning the glass is Rorie and at first I thought it was Drew but he's on the left with everyone else.

 

[chogidogs]

I'm at a loss as to who the dude on the far right is. I'm assuming second from right cleaning the glass is Rorie and at first I thought it was Drew but he's on the left with everyone else.

Yeah, doesn't really look like Rorie but dude has a puppy on his shoulder so...

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I'm at a loss as to who the dude on the far right is. I'm assuming second from right cleaning the glass is Rorie and at first I thought it was Drew but he's on the left with everyone else.

Duder behind Jeff & Ryan is Dave, not Drew.

 

[randomlyrossy]

Duder behind Jeff & Ryan is Dave, not Drew.

Ah, you're right. I'd assumed he wasn't in it, just the Hardcore Dave pic, since he's not around anymore. Mystery solved!

 

[LuchaShaq]

]



Drew is the best thing to happen to the podcast since ....ever

Yeah I love having him on it.

"Not everything can be Alpha Protocol."

Bwahahaha. Who the fuck says they don't like Mario, anyway?

I don't really either.

Hell I'd be more excited for Alpha Protocol to than basically any Mario game.

 

[f0rk]

Wish Jeff Green was there to do a Quick Look EX of PvZ2 just to see the F2P reactions with him there

 

[Antiwhippy]

"Not everything can be Alpha Protocol."

Bwahahaha. Who the fuck says they don't like Mario, anyway?

I'm not really that big of a fan. Mostly because I didn't grow up with him.

 

[rudds]

Vinny asked like halfway through the PvZ Quick Look to see what you have to do to gain stars. But of course, instead of showing how the F2P model of that game is completely fine, let's just yell at it for another 15 minutes.

The game slaps a big fat "BEST DEAL" label on transactions that are demonstrably not the best deal. That's your idea of "completely fine?" Okay.

 

[LuchaShaq]

RIP popcap.

Would have been glad to buy a fifteen dollar pvz sequel.

This horse shit? Not downloading it in a million years.

 

[Procarbine]

Yo guys, remember that GiantBomb Dota2 tournament NeoGAF had a team in? Grand Finals are FINALLY being played and I made a thread with the info, check it out: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76857279#post76857279

 

[Ventilaator]

The game slaps a big fat "BEST DEAL" label on transactions that are demonstrably not the best deal. That's your idea of "completely fine?" Okay.

It's completely fine in letting me play the game without forcing me to pay money. The BEST DEAL thing is funny, but I'm playing the game instead of scrolling through the store, so I couldn't care less about the odd calculations in there.

The keys dropped often enough that by the time I was done with an area, I had enough keys to open all the locks.

Allowing you to buy stars is also a non issue, because I prefer playing games instead of paying money for the ability to not play them. You are not playing through the same levels to earn stars, the levels get new twists to them. It's only a grind because the general PvZ gameplay doesn't hold up over long sessions.

...I'm not a Popcap employee, honest.

 

[Darklord]

The game slaps a big fat "BEST DEAL" label on transactions that are demonstrably not the best deal. That's your idea of "completely fine?" Okay.

Wait, I thought that was just an error. They're seriously doing that? LOL. Fucking EA.

 

[Zaph]

It's completely fine in letting me play the game without forcing me to pay money. The BEST DEAL thing is funny, but I'm playing the game instead of scrolling through the store, so I couldn't care less about the odd calculations in there.

The keys dropped often enough that by the time I was done with an area, I had enough keys to open all the locks.

Allowing you to buy stars is also a non issue, because I prefer playing games instead of paying money for the ability to not play them. You are not playing through the same levels to earn stars, the levels get new twists to them. It's only a grind because the general PvZ gameplay doesn't hold up over long sessions.

...I'm not a Popcap employee, honest.

This is terrible logic.

You're effectively saying: "The game's fine, apart from this one glaring bit where it lies to you to get your money, but it doesn't matter because I'm not paying attention to that bit."

Games are judged on their whole - and if you break it down, what is a games reviewer? They're someone who stands between your money and a game. If a reviewer was not be alarmed by a game lying to the customer to get more money, I would seriously question their judgement.

 

[panda21]

i'm surpsied Jeff doesnt like payday2, it seems similar to syndicate multiplayer, and syndicate singpleayer was a giant pile of shit and yet he loved it. when you can actually get into an MP game its pretty awesome

Yo guys, remember that GiantBomb Dota2 tournament NeoGAF had a team in? Grand Finals are FINALLY being played and I made a thread with the info, check it out: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76857279#post76857279

this should be livestreamed on gb with brad and hatwhale and that british guy commentattigng on it!

 

[Ventilaator]

This is terrible logic.

You're effectively saying: "The game's fine, apart from this one glaring bit where it lies to you to get your money, but it doesn't matter because I'm not paying attention to that bit."

Games are judged on their whole - and if you break it down, what is a games reviewer? They're someone who stands between your money and a game. If a reviewer was not be alarmed by a game lying to the customer to get more money, I would seriously question their judgement.

True, but the basis for judging F2P games seems to be "How crippled is the game if I don't want to pay a cent?"

And, without paying a cent, PvZ2 is a great sequel.

 

[Lunzio]

You can have plenty of fun in PvZ2 without paying for anything. I haven't had enough time to sink into it, but it seems like a completely valid way of playing the entire thing. That's not exactly a paywall.

 

[Zaph]

True, but the basis for judging F2P games seems to be "How crippled is the game if I don't want to pay a cent?"

And, without paying a cent, PvZ2 is a great sequel.

That would be the judgement, if the game didn't try to cash grab from people who 'trust' the maths put before them.

The "Best Deal" is a very common trope in video games - especially F2P ones. It usually implies that if you buy the biggest package, you'll save money over time. EA is effectively abusing the customer assumption behind that trope.

You can have plenty of fun in PvZ2 without paying for anything. I haven't had enough time to sink into it, but it seems like a completely valid way of playing the entire thing. That's not exactly a paywall.

That's not the point.

 

[LuchaShaq]

i'm surpsied Jeff doesnt like payday2, it seems similar to syndicate multiplayer, and syndicate singpleayer was a giant pile of shit and yet he loved it. when you can actually get into an MP game its pretty awesome


t!

Syndicate controlled better, had better objectives, way crazier art, better teammate healing buffing, better levels, better guns etc.


By your logic Battlefield 4 and the goldeneye are basically the same game.

 

[Lunzio]

That would be the judgement, if the game didn't try to cash grab from people who 'trust' the maths put before them.

The "Best Deal" is a very common trope in video games - especially F2P ones. It usually implies that if you buy the biggest package, you'll save money over time. EA is effectively abusing the customer assumption behind that trope.


That's not the point.

But that's my point. I've enjoyed my time with it. They gave me more PvZ for free.

 

[base shagohod]

The game slaps a big fat "BEST DEAL" label on transactions that are demonstrably not the best deal. That's your idea of "completely fine?" Okay.

lol, funny I read this right after watching that part in the Quick Look.

 

[OMG Aero]

I am confident this is the best piece of Giant Bomb fanart of all time

Wrong.
The framed portrait of Jeff is objectively the greatest piece of Giant Bomb fan art.

 

[reggie]

Not sure what the problem is going back on previous levels to get more stars. It's more than just replaying levels, they require you to do challenges which change how the levels play, they're almost like new levels.

PvZ1 was a way better game for numerous reasons, but I don't think PvZ2 is hurt by the micro transactions. The prices are dumb though, especially the 'best deal' not being the best deal.

 

[Lunzio]

Not sure what the problem is going back on previous levels to get more stars. It's more than just replaying levels, they require you to do challenges which change how the levels play, they're almost like new levels.

PvZ1 was a way better game for numerous reasons, but I don't think PvZ2 is hurt by the micro transactions. The prices are dumb though, especially the 'best deal' not being the best deal.

True on all accounts, in my opinion.

 

[Felix Lighter]

When that first image in Error 53 appeared quickly, I thought maybe you were playing as a madman, who is imagining this fanciful JRPG world around him, slaying the knights, but in reality you were slaughtering innocent people...or something like that. And the pictures were quick glimpses into the real world.

Nah, just screen grabs from some found footage movie for jump scares.

It's just a more elaborate version of that old 20 second maze game that gets the player to focus on the screen and then suddenly throws that a scarey image and blares a screaming voice. The easiest jump scare.

 

[D4Danger]

Vinny asked like halfway through the PvZ Quick Look to see what you have to do to gain stars. But of course, instead of showing how the F2P model of that game is completely fine, let's just yell at it for another 15 minutes.

 

[Goldmund]

They should coin a new name for tower defense games of the free-to-play ilk: wallet defense.

 

[funkystudent]

Wait. Is Jeff actually a regular character in VGCW now? Havent watched in months.

Wrong.
The framed portrait of Jeff is objectively the greatest piece of Giant Bomb fan art.

This is correct.

 

[Incandenza]

Save the Date from this week's Worth Playing is a super cool game. It really goes in some interesting directions if you keep playing it past where Patrick stopped. It'd be neat to see him play some more of it.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

How is that not the "best deal?" It's the highest coin-per-cent spent ratio.

 

[Megasoum]

How is that not the "best deal?" It's the highest coin-per-cent spent ratio.

Yeah, it's the other store that was a ripoff.

 

[D4Danger]

How is that not the "best deal?" It's the highest coin-per-cent spent ratio.

Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I was just pointing out they want you to spend $100 on a free game.

apparently that's "completely fine".

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I was just pointing out they want you to spend $100 on a free game.

apparently that's "completely fine".

Could be worse, I believe $99.99 is the top limit Apple sets for in-app purchases.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I was just pointing out they want you to spend $100 on a free game.

apparently that's "completely fine".

*shrug* there have been transactions for those amounts in countless F2P games for literally years. It certainly ain't anything unique to EA or Popcap or PvZ2. You can just, like, not buy it?

 

[reggie]

Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I was just pointing out they want you to spend $100 on a free game.

apparently that's "completely fine".

The prices are fucking duuuuuumb, but I'm not sure why it matters. Coins are pretty useless in the game. They only buy you easy outs (the one use powers) for when you are losing , if you're any good at the game you will never need them. The game gives out plenty of free plant food and keys. You also earn coins slowly anyway, so if comes the time you REALLY need to use one of those powers you will have more than enough coins to spend, all without spending a single IRL cent.

 

[Megasoum]

While I agree that PvZ2 is badly monetized and is a borderline ripoff...

People need to stop thinking of F2P games as "Free Games"... Sure the barrier of entry is free but they still expect you to pay something at some point and personnaly I'm fine with that.

If I start playing a F2P game and the game is great and I'm having a ton of fun, I will gladly pay some money to continue playing it.

In the end, it's not like suddenly those devs are making games for free and expect nobody to pay them...

 

[XiaNaphryz]

*shrug* there have been transactions for those amounts in countless F2P games for literally years. It certainly ain't anything unique to EA or Popcap or PvZ2. You can just, like, not buy it?

Pretty sure EA has that $99.99 option in Simpsons Tapped Out. Most of us ignore them.

 

[Ventilaator]

Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I was just pointing out they want you to spend $100 on a free game.

apparently that's "completely fine".

If you had continued reading the thread you would've seen my clarification. The prices and what you get for them are gross, as they are in literally every single F2P game ever.

The F2P model in PvZ2 is completely fine, because the main game isn't crippled in any way for someone who doesn't want to spend a cent. The Quick Look left the opposite impression, which is what bothered me.

 

[Goldmund]

$99.99 harpoons exist because whales exist. In any way, seeing how steep these prices are, the likelihood of a PC/console version ridden of the free-to-play model for $15 or so seems very low, as far as the immediate and near future is concerned.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The F2P model in PvZ2 is completely fine, because the main game isn't crippled in any way for someone who doesn't want to spend a cent. The Quick Look left the opposite impression, which is what bothered me.

Yeah, it all comes down to whether a game is truly "pay-to-win," "skill-to-win," or "wait-to-win." In the first one, there's no real way to be competitive or complete the game without purchasing something. The second one, you can complete all of the game without buying anything, though you can buy cheats if you don't want to spend the time to level up or whatever. The last one is where a lot of those building type games fall under - you can do a bunch of stuff, but it takes time to complete. Spending money would speed it all up, but for a lot of people who like these sorts of games they're only checking in on them once or twice a day (i.e. before work and then after) so there's no real need for them to speed things up. Pay-to-win is what most reasonable gamers hate and don't put up with.

The pricing model is there because Apple set a top limit and developers simply place a price tier all the way to that limit. For popular titles, the handful of whales they get to purchase stuff at the high end combined with the impatient types who compulsively buy stuff at the cheaper $0.99 end are enough to make it profitable for the developer. And for those who genuinely enjoy the game and want to chip something in, they often make a one time purchase in the 0.99 - $4.99 range.

But what makes a "good" F2P model is a game that is in the "skill-to-win" category. Plenty of games these days are going to have that $0.99 - $99.99 pricing tier model - the main question a lot of mobile gamers have is if they have to bother with it or not.

We're going to see this for a while until people start accepting premium pricing ($9.99 - 19.99 for full games with NO microtransactions, i.e. X-COM) or games with minimal purchases like Sid Meier's Ace Patrol.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Pay-to-win can mean a lot of different things to different people. I would consider any ability to spend real money on gameplay related items in game as pay-to-win. I would also consider the ability to spend real money on speeding up progression (and thus unlock gameplay related items) as pay-to-win.

Basically if when you first start playing a game, you can spend real money to speed up unlocking gameplay related stuff, that's pay-to-win. You can spend real money to make your character/profile/whatever better, thus pay-to-win. Even if you can eventually unlock stuff with in game currency.

Essentially you can look at it as a game being pay-to-win for the first 10 hours,100 hours, 1000 hours etc. however long it takes for a non paying player to unlock that stuff as well.

 

[Heel]

If Brad had clicked the star levels after they unlocked, he'd see they're all challenge levels with different stipulations (don't plant in the back two rows, collect a certain amount of sun power by stalling zombies, don't let zombies cross over a row of flowers on the map, use a specific group of plants, don't spend over a certain amount of sun power, etc.)

This is more than the first game ever offered in terms of varying the game (at least as I remember it), so you can easily view it as new, different levels to play. It's not making you "play all the old levels over again" at all.

I honestly feel like if you know how to play the game, you're getting PvZ 2 for free. Mostly done with the first map and haven't needed to recharge for coins, needed to buy keys to unlock all the doors, etc. So far I think IAPs are for people who are impatient or not good at the game, not something you'll be required to use to beat the game.

 

[Santar]

I really don't like free to play.
It's one of the worst trends in modern gaming to me.
The problem with most of these games is that they seem to be designed for maximum profit rather than being a fun game to play.

What free to play should be imo is pay for cheats.

Take a game like Doom. Don't change anything about it, but let people who don't want to hunt for that last red key pay to unlock it, if they want to move on to the next level faster.
Or if they want that shotgun right now instead of actually finding it, let them pay to unlock it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Pay-to-win can mean a lot of different things to different people. I would consider any ability to spend real money on gameplay related items in game as pay-to-win. I would also consider the ability to spend real money on speeding up progression (and thus unlock gameplay related items) as pay-to-win.

This has existed for full $60.00 retail releases as well as DLC. Yet people seem to harp on it more for F2P titles even if you can play the game perfectly fine without it, which I think is what people are trying to clarify.

The main issue with mobile F2P games that you can actually play fine without purchasing items or cheats are time blockers - i.e. you can play X amount of time or levels before needing to wait for something to recharge. For a game not built entirely around the concept of waiting for time to elapse like the town builders I referenced above where you could just set what you need and just come back to it later, it just screams "quick monetization slapped-on."

 

[Felix Lighter]

Good F2P is such a balancing act. Valve probably does it best but they have the benefit of having massively popular MP games and an incredibly popular storefront/platform to reach consumers. Singleplayer centric games have to be difficult to get right.

 

[PedroLumpy]

This has existed for full $60.00 retail releases as well as DLC. Yet people seem to harp on it more for F2P titles even if you can play the game perfectly fine without it, which I think is what people are trying to clarify.

You are quite right. It is especially reprehensible in those $60.00 titles. Just remember that doesn't necessarily excuse it in F2P titles.

 

[Jamie OD]

Looking forward to the PAX panel this year but I'm kind of worried about how awkward the Q&A session could get if it's going to be a mixture of condolences for Ryan along with the usual weird questions. I'm expecting every person to say something like "Hi guys, so sorry to hear about Ryan. When I heard the news it felt like I lost a close friend. Anyway, do you think CDs make good pizza cutters?"