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Gilad Shalit to be freed
- Thread starter Roi
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speculawyer
Member
Why the fuck did they desecrate a Rabin memorial? Rabin had nothing to do with this and the Labor party is not in control of Israel.Roi said:
I understand that guy is bitter but his target made little sense. Express your displeasure to Bibi and do it in a constructive manner.
Count Dookkake
Member
neoanarch said:
Thread is short. Read it.
speculawyer
Member
xbhaskarx said:
Well don't be surprised if some of them suddenly have some terrible 'accidents' while enjoying their new found freedom.
Count Dookkake said:
Ah my mistake I usually skip over usernames.
I don't know why anyone is surprised at the lopsided deal. This is how these prisoner swaps usually play out
I'm not optimistic about any of this moving the peace process along, besides deflecting from the Recognition movement in the UN it just buys both sides some popularity points. Israel will never budge on the 69 borders and 'right of return'.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Unreal.
theignoramus
Member
I bet Shalit was treated better in Hamas custody than Pals in Israeli custody, as in he wasnt given the camp 1391 treatment.
I look forward to the next prisoner release, which includes a heavy amount of "administrative detainees and political activists"
I look forward to the next prisoner release, which includes a heavy amount of "administrative detainees and political activists"
theignoramus
Member
I'm glad Shalit has been released.
xbhaskarx said:
To be fair, I'd imagine a huge chunk of those 1000 prisoners are innocent, so it's probably balanced out. Not like Israeli's don't get away with atrocities or anything. Hell, they do pretty much every day. Hope the people who genuinely are responsible for atrocities get their dues on both sides.
Anyone know how many Palestinian prisoners Israel holds altogether?
nib95 said:
To be fair, you like imagining that most of them are innocent and to be fair, you are pulling this out of your ass with like many of this board due, ambiguity.
Rather than criticizing the fact that there will be a mass celebration of murderers and collaborators who will be returned, in comes apologists and apathy of course.
D-Fens said:
Of course not. I agree with that whole heartedly. There is a weird imbalance at work though. One country commits acts of terror under the guise of military might which somehow makes it military intervention instead of terrorism, and the other does it with Guerilla tactics and suicide bombings which is the more obvious form of terrorism.
In these cases though, one mans freedom fighter is often another mans terrorist. Point is, they are as you mentioned both wrong. Just a shame only one side is taking any real heat for it.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Could we get this deleted?
BaronLundi
Member
Glad he is finally free.
Still sad that the French authorities didn't seem to do much to help his liberation. He didn't get but a fraction of the attention usually given to French hostages (granted his situation regarding both his nationality and prisoner status made this uneasy).
I'm on the fence about about the terrorists (among the 1027) being freed. Hard to swallow, especially seeing Ismaïl Haniyeh glowing with his newfound power.
I wish they'd released Bargouti.
Still sad that the French authorities didn't seem to do much to help his liberation. He didn't get but a fraction of the attention usually given to French hostages (granted his situation regarding both his nationality and prisoner status made this uneasy).
I'm on the fence about about the terrorists (among the 1027) being freed. Hard to swallow, especially seeing Ismaïl Haniyeh glowing with his newfound power.
I wish they'd released Bargouti.
People are looking at this the wrong way.
Forget the 1000 Vs 1 numerical imbalance. Forget the military imbalance. Forget the fact that both Israel and Palestine are probably never ever going to have a peace because neither side is willing to make serious movement to peace.
The simple thing is this:
There are now 1001 fewer reasons to be antagonistic towards each other. That is one minor flashpoint eliminated. I just hope that the 1001 freed people can go back to their respective families and maybe even attest to some of the nice qualities of the side that held them prisoner.
Forget the 1000 Vs 1 numerical imbalance. Forget the military imbalance. Forget the fact that both Israel and Palestine are probably never ever going to have a peace because neither side is willing to make serious movement to peace.
The simple thing is this:
There are now 1001 fewer reasons to be antagonistic towards each other. That is one minor flashpoint eliminated. I just hope that the 1001 freed people can go back to their respective families and maybe even attest to some of the nice qualities of the side that held them prisoner.
ManDudeChild
Member
RandomVince said:
You're aware this isn't the OWS thread right? I'm just trying to put your naive responses into some logical reason.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
Seems like a bad deal for the Israelis.
Maybe they'll keep tabs on the most dangerous terrorists and arrest or kill them when its convenient?
Surely Israel wouldnt just leave their citizens at the mercy of so many known terrorists.
Maybe they'll keep tabs on the most dangerous terrorists and arrest or kill them when its convenient?
Surely Israel wouldnt just leave their citizens at the mercy of so many known terrorists.
nib95 said:
Couldn't find the source I read a while ago, but fwiw wiki:
wiki said:
See more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Israel
ManDudeChild
Member
RandomVince said:
Nah, even I'll admit I was kinda being a dick. Seriously speaking though, I appreciate what you're hoping for and in an ideal world that might happen. However, when you a healthy mix of unjustly imprisoned and legitimately imprisoned, you're not likely to see much in the way of moderate voices.
(Edit: OWS = Occupy Wall Street)
That's a very unreasonable thing to say.nib95 said:
From wikipedia: "Among the 1,027 prisoners expected to be released there are about 280 murderers sentenced to life imprisonment, including .."
Even if you don't believe Israeli figures, that must still mean at least half of those are actual murders. Saying things "balance out" with 140 murderers is a bit difficult.
You just spouting things without even trying to back them up, because of some gut feeling you have.
I don't mean that you should attach references to every post but I'm sure that no situation is as black-and-white as you seemingly present it here so perhaps it'll help you to research some things in objective sources (wikipedia is great in that regard).
theignoramus
Member
Palestinians dont have the luxury of imprisoning the murderers from Operation Cast Lead and other Israeli operations. Some of the Palestinian killers were sentenced 30 years ago. God knows how many Israeli war criminals have had no punishment whatsoever in that time frame. Even overseeing a genocidal operation, as Ariel Sharon did, apparently isnt enough to warrant imprisonment in israel, so long as it's Arabs being killed.KimiSan said:
Netanyahu's claim that Israel doesnt celebrate murderers is laughably false.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
Israel kill thousands and thousands of people throwing rocks at them with tanks: THEY ARE FIGHTING TERRORISTS!
Palestine take one Israeli soldier hostage then free him after negotiations: WHAT TERRIBLE PEOPLE!
Palestine take one Israeli soldier hostage then free him after negotiations: WHAT TERRIBLE PEOPLE!
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
WrathOfOtaibah said:
uh... no.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Damn, pretty impossible decision to make. You win and lose no matter what choice you make. Glad he is home though.
Some of you try too hard, literally every israel related thread. Ah well.
Some of you try too hard, literally every israel related thread. Ah well.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
Why's that?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
WrathOfOtaibah said:
Well, first of all, your attempt at simplifying what happened is completely off. Second of all, you can't really simplify either situation really, because all this crap is pretty fucken complex, and can't be summarized as one side is evil the other side is not!
theignoramus
Member
Israel did precisely that in the first intifada in the late 80s and early 90s. nonviolent protests were broken up with brutal and overwhelming force on Yitzhak Rabin's orders. "Break their bones", Rabin said.quadriplegicjon said:
Then it got more violent on the Palestinian side, for justifiable reasons. Even Europe and America had trouble reconciling their support of Israel with the brutal retribution it dished out to rock throwing kids. The first intifada was a major Israeli PR disaster, coming just a few years after the genocidal operation overseen by Ariel Sharon at Sabra and Shatila.
None of the Israeli killers from the first intifada ever got multiple life sentences.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
While I agree that both sides have done some bad shit, which is putting it lightly, but are you seriously going to act like they're on equal footing when it comes to atrocities. Cause honey, Israel have killed and done much worse to Palestine than Palestine can ever hope to do to Israel. It isn't an opinion, it is pretty much fact.
I don't care for either sides religious beliefs or their political agendas(if you're wondering yes I'm well informed of both), but when it comes to human rights Israel is by far the biggest violator in what they do to Palestine. And being surprised that a country committing violence is being reacted upon with violent measures is funny.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
WrathOfOtaibah said:
Did I say they were on equal footing?
And atrocities from one side does not excuse atrocities from the other side, no matter which side has killed more. I really really hate the argument that Israel has killed more palestinians so it doesn't matter that palestinians have killed Israelis! It's absolutely ridiculous.
theignoramus
Member
Re: the first intifada.
Israel, the merciful:
"23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the (first) intifada", one third of whom were children under the age of ten years old"
(Save the Children)
can you imagine if Hamas or the PLO caused 23,000 casualties among Israeli children, one third of them under the age of 10? 30 years later, we'd still be hearing about it.
Israel, the merciful:
"23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the (first) intifada", one third of whom were children under the age of ten years old"
(Save the Children)
can you imagine if Hamas or the PLO caused 23,000 casualties among Israeli children, one third of them under the age of 10? 30 years later, we'd still be hearing about it.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
....That's not what I said.
What I did say was that it is utterly idiotic to think violent actions don't provoke violent reactions. And being shocked that Palestine did anything violent is pure ignorance to how the world works.
Do we all want this shit to end so we can't stop hearing about it or about the many poor people who get killed because of that bullshit? yes. Will it though? probably not. What you do need is for an actual effort to end this war that doesn't involve ceasing he other sides existence. And Israel having more power in the region doesn't want to and repeatedly broke peace negotiations, so even if both sides are at fault. Israel is most definitely more at fault.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
WrathOfOtaibah said:
What you said sounded like this:
So Hamas crossed the border, killed some soldiers, kidnapped a soldier, and basically instigated a war with Israel where many more palestinians were killed, but they freed that one prisoner many years later so it's all cool!
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
theignoramus said:
I never said it wasn't disgusting, but Palestinian leaders closed down all the schools and encouraged women and children to participate in the riots. Israels response was disgusting, but the Palestinian leaders use of those women and children was also disgusting (different level though).
That is what I mean. This shit is far from one sided.
theignoramus
Member
Yes, but who is the illegal occupier and who has been saying, since 1948 that "Arabs only understand the language of force"?quadriplegicjon said:
I mean, everyone condemns Hamas' looney toon charter and Elders of Zion nonsense, but it's not like the Israeli elite's contemptuous attitudes towards Arabs hasnt been well documented over and over and over and over again. Furthermore, they have acted on these attitudes, with great efficiency, for decades
speculawyer
Member
Got a victim complex?M.D said:
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