Yeah I was more talking about the mentality of the gaming community themselves rather than the developers. I mean if you take out the female protagonist part, Horizon's features basically read like a checklist of almost every successful AAA game in the past 6 or 7 years. The only real risk is that the protagonist has a vagina.
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Glixel: How the Risky 'Horizon Zero Dawn' Transformed the Studio Behind 'Killzone'
- Thread starter Jimmyfenix
- Start date
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
still want more Killzone now that they have their weaknesses covered a new better Killzone could outshine even their best one yet (KZ2)
and great read, read it all yesterday.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yep, I want to see a reworked Killzone now. I don't even like FPS but I want to see what they can do with the franchise after what they've done with Horizon.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
I've never been interested in the Killzone franchise but Horizon had my undivided attention from the first moment I saw that leaked concept art. I just beat the game this morning, Platinum trophy and all. It lived up to my every expectation and my mind is reeling to think of all the places they could take the IP from here. Bravo, Geurrilla, and thank you for going all-in on such an outlandish and ambitious concept.
Nightengale
Member
Putting aside the fact that ticking the boxes of popular features doesn't ascertain a new IP's success, the risk here is less so the concept of the game, but the risk the studio takes to be able to create this product.
Invest in new tech, invest in new tools, rethinking every single design conventions they're familiar with as a studio, etc.
Making AAA games itself is already hard, anytime a studio doubles up that challenge by needing to have the technology, idea and familiarity challenged, of course it's a major risk.
An open-world 3rd person RPG in the Killzone universe would be rad. The world they built is rife with possibilities but they never really executed on the story front despite having great building blocks in place. I think they should give it a shot.
Edit: As for enemy variety, the previous games had some cool machines in them (piloted by people of course) so they can expand on that so as not to just have humanoid enemies. Plus can expand on experimentation on soldiers to produce "monsters."
wapplew
Member
Back to guns vs human enemy? Errr.....
Well I did say this article was thread worthy in the OT when I posted it but I'm kinda paranoid about getting in trouble with mods here so I'm skittish about making threads lol.
Anyway, my biggest takeaways from the article is what the cosplayer said about Aloy, Gonzales saying he doesn't want to stop working for GG, that time travel game that could have been and the fact that they're keeping that other concept under wraps.
There's still more that I found really interesting in there (every killzone was profitable confirmed!?). Just a very very very good article about a studio that is staffed by a bunch of cool people who love what they do.
Anyway, my biggest takeaways from the article is what the cosplayer said about Aloy, Gonzales saying he doesn't want to stop working for GG, that time travel game that could have been and the fact that they're keeping that other concept under wraps.
There's still more that I found really interesting in there (every killzone was profitable confirmed!?). Just a very very very good article about a studio that is staffed by a bunch of cool people who love what they do.
Oh shit Aloy was played by Tiny Tina?
Dude, if you played KIllzone Shadowfall you'll understand what I mean, but imagine a game that plays the same way the last misson in SF did, with a lot of infiltration, bittersweet story, mature, well animated, gritty BUT with responsive, dynamic and compelling gameplay. I would dip in there so hard. I want a serious Killzone game, make it a TPS or an FPS, I don't want to kill waves and waves of enemies, I want to feel like I have an impact on the story within the game, I want to explore the lore.
Guerilla has 2 of the best lores in the industry. They did justice to Horizon's lore, now it's time to do justice to Killzone's lore.
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Killzone 2 is one of the very best FPS to ever exist (it got a 91 Metascore for a reason) with a really unique premise and art design, nothing to be ashamed of.
The problem was that KZ3 and Shadowfall absolutely didn't live up to it, playing it too save and sticking to tired genre standards/convictions rather than building on KZ2 being one of the main reasons for that. A Killzone with as much will to experiment and break convictions as they did with Horizon could be absolutely amazing, they just have to build on the game/gunplay from Killzone 2 and go from there.
Especially the narrative had a lot of potential (with the background lore not being as simple as the Helghast being evil space nazis being fought by good guy Space America, instead the Helghast had originally lived on Vecta (now ISA home planet) and then got deported to the death world of Helghan were most of them died, resulting in their hatred for the 'good guy ISA - heck, you even had a likeable Helghast double agent on your team in Killzone 1), they have to build on the moral greyness and the "there are no good and bad guys in this war" rather than falling back on literally inserting Space Stalin and Space Goebbels as bad guys. Playing as Helghast would go a long way for that. The gunplay in KZ3 and Shadowfall was good, the story and narrative was not, with too much of a scripted experience and levels being too linear and uninspiring (huge number of set-pieces rather than depth or good level design, similar to Call of Duty or Battlefield SP).
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
yup, personally i would like helghan vs new species trying to find a new home planet or some shit like that. or a rouge faction. case in point i just want another killzone but i want to play as a helghan lol
It's 3x as risky for Horizon than a game like Assassins Creed or Far Cry because those last two games release on at least 3 platforms. When you're a one platform exclusive company, stepping outside of your studio's comfort zone on a huge project is really risky. Driveclub wasn't even that different than Motorstorm (when compared to the difference between Horizon and Killzone) and they still ended up being a closed down studio.
TetraGenesis
Member
This is a monumental achievement. The amount of work required to go from making FPS linear games to fully fledged 3rd person open world action rpg is crazy...
Its like going from the 4th grade straight to University. It takes quite the balls to take that risk.
I am in love with their creation and it is clear as day that this was a labor of passion and love from the entire team.
Huge respect to GG and I hope they continue to be as brave in the future.
Its like going from the 4th grade straight to University. It takes quite the balls to take that risk.
I am in love with their creation and it is clear as day that this was a labor of passion and love from the entire team.
Huge respect to GG and I hope they continue to be as brave in the future.
How on earth is Horizon risky, outside of having a sizable budget?
It's not like they made a choose-your-own-adventure rhythm game about the nature of grief or a procedurally generated motion controlled dating sim starring seahorses.
I'm enjoying the game and find it very competent, but it's a very safe open world AAA action game. It looks and feels like a bunch of other games from Far Cry to Tomb Raider to Assassin's Creed.
This is more a critique of the article for using a silly straw man premise than of Guerilla.
It's not like they made a choose-your-own-adventure rhythm game about the nature of grief or a procedurally generated motion controlled dating sim starring seahorses.
I'm enjoying the game and find it very competent, but it's a very safe open world AAA action game. It looks and feels like a bunch of other games from Far Cry to Tomb Raider to Assassin's Creed.
This is more a critique of the article for using a silly straw man premise than of Guerilla.
I'm in! Where do I sign?
Like others have said, it's risky because you're adding another open-world game to the pile. It has a female lead. It's a brand new IP. First party studios don't make open-world RPGs. And the riskiest of all, the studio ONLY made linear first-person shooters. By your definition, a game is only risky if it's completely outlandish? What if Naughty Dog decided to make an RTS next? You wouldn't categorize that as a risky venture?
DriftingSpirit
Member
Its risky for Guerrilla to take on a such a Project which they never have done before.They have to Create new pipelines, tools and engine to facilitate these changes which could be just used to Create another killzone Game, which will eventually make them money too,as suggested by guerrilla that no killzone has ever be in loss.
Also there is no such thing a safe AAA open world action game,If the execution is not great they could be obliterate to hell for going open world like ubi games.But they took the risk and execute a pretty good Game.
Even now you can see what's happening with ME:A, This game has his own issues or we could say "concerns" prior to release, like Ubi Towers and "BROM".But In the end it did delivered and excels in open world gameplay and storytelling quiet marvelously, while being compare to All other games you have listed.
MegaSackman
Member
I mean, people know that other open world games have failed, right?
Look at Mad Max, and that game came out after a movie everyone loves.
And again, Horizon was a big risk for Guerrilla, not a risk in itself even if it has some risky or unproven ideas (female, robot dinosaurs).
Look at Mad Max, and that game came out after a movie everyone loves.
And again, Horizon was a big risk for Guerrilla, not a risk in itself even if it has some risky or unproven ideas (female, robot dinosaurs).
wapplew
Member
Last time an internal studio try something like that, game cancelled after 3 years of development, 50+ Devs layoff, studio still in recovery.
Even if we forget anything else and just focus on the player's perspective, ie 3rd person, you have to try and understand what that means to a studio that has never even bothered with a 3rd person game before.
Think of how many 3rd person games feel unresponsive slugish and downright poor. Even veteran 3rd person developers (ahem... Bioware) seem not to be able to produce proper animation movement after so many tries.
Now Guerilla on their first attempt created a beautifuly animated character, nailed down the shooting aspects and overall navigation controls. There is a ton of tech involved in accomplishing this. Changing the camera perspective from first to third person is not a simple thing. There are tons of stuff involved, you have to rethink the entire level design, the gameplay mechanics, even graphics.
And that is just the perspective. If you go on to apply what it means tech wise and design wise to move from a linear simple shooter game to a vast open world game featuring a whole economy and ecosystem, quest design, dialogue wheels and a ton of extra features (weather, wind, time of day, asset streaming, player interaction) and gameplay mechanics, then yes... its a huge task.
Because changing an entire studio over from the development cycle and mindset of a very linear FPS to an open world RPG like that is pretty big. Also, pulling all those elements together and sticking the landing it isn't really that safe either.
That and having female protagonist is still a bit risky.
Reboot Killzone to take place hundreds of years after Horizon. Humanity finally unlocks the secrets of the machines and through that have a technological explosion and then from there the events of the Killzone timeline play out somewhat similar.
The game is literally multiple games copy and pasted, then stitched together.
Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Hitman, multiple RPGs, etc. A number of the game play designs are directly from those games. I don't mean that as a negative either.
After you stitch all that together the world, characters, and combat make it quite fun.
Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Hitman, multiple RPGs, etc. A number of the game play designs are directly from those games. I don't mean that as a negative either.
After you stitch all that together the world, characters, and combat make it quite fun.
LastMinuteHero
Member
Haha this
How many games cannot be described as mechanics stitched together from other games?
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Yeah, there was a lot of naysaying here on GAF. Hell, as excited as I was for the game, I was preparing myself for a solid (but very pretty) 7. I don't think a lot of people would have bet on Geurrilla knocking it out of the park.
A writer for F:NV AND one of the minds behind the Nemesis system? Can we clone this person?
There's something to be said about pulling or being inspired by elements from different games each with their own unique identities and combining them into one synchronous package.
Appreciate Guerilla Games and Sony giving them the freedom to try something new. I thought they would fail. Either the narrative would be rubbish, or the open world would be bogged down by content bloat. They just nailed it for me. Streamlined gameplay over immersion:
*No stamina meter, infinite sprint, run everywhere makes me want to explore rather than fast travel.
*Unified merchants. Other games would split up weapons, armor, traps, potions, all over the place.
*Aloy is a mobile workshop; she can make anything, anytime herself. No NPC whose only purpose is to socket and unsocket enhancements (ENCHANTMENT? ENCHANMENT!)
GG had enough confidence in their content to bet a huge budget on a SP game without multiplayer, without online hooks, without a season pass or micro transaction strategy. No GAAS, game you play forever that's in fashion now. It's a complete package on its own while having a world interesting enough to expand on.
You can do this for any game.
CaptainofIndustry
Member
Any spoilers in the article? I'd like to read it but I just started playing.
ZettaiSeigi
Member
Wow, thank you for posting this interview. My media blackout prior to release has helped avoid accidental spoilers but it also made it easy to miss gems such as this. This was a really well-done interview and touched on a lot of things without spoiling the game's major draws.
I hope they keep John Gonzalez as the lead writer for all their future projects, especially the inevitable HZD sequel, because he's really got a very impressive resume.
It's spoiler-free so don't hesitate to read.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
You're downplaying the other factors as well. Guerilla Games is a studio known for making the Killzone franchise since their inception. A gritty space shooter series which has reviewed quite well but never hit the commercial highs of its contemporaries.
For that studio to then spend 7 years and millions of dollars creating an open world game with RPG-lite elements, a genre they have no experience in at all, that also has a non-sexualised female lead as well as the themes it does is incredibly risky. Regardless of what you or any one else thinks here on GAF, new AAA IP are a tight rope in today's climate, with many failures resulting in entire studio closures.
Staff restructure, entire development pipelines, technology and a brand new culture are all costly things to change when you're a studio as large as Guerilla, both time wise and financially. It's not easy and could have completely sunk them if it went well.
Horizon Zero Dawn is absolutely a massive risk for Sony and GG, and the fact you downplay it as safe aside from the fact it stars a character "with a vagina" shows a lack of understanding of this industry if I'm honest.
ZettaiSeigi
Member
This. I guess the fact that HZD was met with critical and commercial success just made it very easy for some people to dismiss the risks involved in developing the game. Pretty sure that wouldn't be the case if the game tanked in either/both aspects.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Well it's funny right? That a load of people on here thought it was primed to bomb critically and commercially, and now the narrative has changed to "well it copies every popular industry trend right now so of course it was a success". Gamers, man.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Heh, you can actually sort of tell when she yells out "going down fast!" when scrambling down a slope, but it's the only time where I recognized the VA, if I hadn't known prior to that I would have never guessed it was Tiny Tina/Millium, lol.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yep.
Guys, I'm not talking "they both have stealth", or you can "craft in them".
Gathering the sticks/items for crafting even looks like TR. The saving at fires all over the map, looks like TR. The stealth in tall grass feels just like Uncharted 4, down to getting enemies to come to you and taking them out (and letting others notice and come to you to take them out).
That's what I meant. It feels straight out of those games, not just a similar mechanic.
The open combat is where the game shines though. Fighting big machines, rolling all over the place, hiding and setting traps...that's what separates it.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Fortunately, it's the machine combat that is the main core mechanic of the game, not the idea of having bonfires as saves (which Tomb Raider didn't invent either) or basic stealth mechanics. Also, Uncharted didn't invent stealth in tall grass at all.
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