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GM Market Value now only $7 Billion

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user friendly said:
Don't know, they were mostly line workers and I think they get paid 30 odd dollars/hour. It's only in Oshawa, not sure if you're from around here or not but that's quite a few lost jobs. They'll save money in the long run, but it won't really make a difference right away.

Most of them will probably just go to the car plant but that'll still mean they'll be taking the younger peoples jobs. A lot of students rely on that as a summer job. It's going to have q big effect on this little city.
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$30/hr working on a line, that's too much for a company going into the shitter like GM. The only person who isn't suffering is the union leader and a few others. I'm sorry I don't empathize.

Not making $30/hr is going to bring people back to reality.

Are there other industries there or was it mainly based around the plant?
 
GM is pretty fucked, and I wouldn't be surprised to see further decline with the rest of the American automakers not far behind.

_leech_ said:
Don't even get me started. Nothing pisses me off more than when a company decides that the best way to save money is to lay off an entire town dependent on that work.
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How would you propose they deal with the situation, then? I'll use the example of the recent GM Oshawa plant closing, that user friendly mentioned above. The plant was one of the largest employers in the region, and it produced GM trucks. No one is buying trucks anymore. Should GM continue to operate this plant, losing money hand over fist, in order to maintain jobs that are no longer needed, at the risk of the entire company going bankrupt for failing to adapt to a changing marketplace?

Getting laid off is an incredibly debilitating experience, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. That being said, it is an (unfortunate) reality of the world and it's best to learn to adapt rather than cling to job security that no longer exists.
 
_leech_ said:
So companies that make bad financial and economical decisions should... what, get bailed out? I as much pro-union as the next guy (unless we're talking about the TTC), but I hope that's not what you're implying...
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Please, I'm the last guy to propose corporate welfare, but this should be treated at least half-way seriously.

People are going to be losing jobs big times. Hopefully someone comes in and fills that void

huh, hippies of GAF? Maybe shoot Al Gore an e-mail or something. Dissolve the green Party, becuase god knows that aren't doing shit and invest that money into something that will actually help people?
 
speculawyer said:
neogaf1.gif

2010-Chevy-Camaro-SS-Spy.jpg

:D
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Fixed for ya. :D

Agent Icebeezy said:
I used to work for Ford. No foreign cars on UAW property. They take tat shit seriously.
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I can back that up. I remember a long time ago, as a little lad, about going on a road trip with my mom's best friend and the whole family (of both of us), and we wanted to see a GM plant (I forget which one). They wouldn't let us park there because our road trip vehicle of choice was one of those '80s Toyota vans...
 
YYZ said:
$30/hr working on a line, that's too much for a company going into the shitter like GM. The only person who isn't suffering is the union leader and a few others. I'm sorry I don't empathize.

Not making $30/hr is going to bring people back to reality.

Are there other industries there or was it mainly based around the plant?
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It's pretty much all automobile industry.

Non sympathetic for who, GM or the hundreds of families?
 
sonarrat said:
Happened to Chrysler in the '70s.
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And the airlines just few years go. And Bear Sterns just got some backing.

Things ain't going so great . . . and I think things are gonna get worse before they get better.
 
user friendly said:
It's pretty much all automobile industry.

Non sympathetic for who, GM or the hundreds of families?
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Would they have taken a pay cut?

I don't really like the ideas of unions when they drive up the cost of employment for the company and then the company is in financial trouble in the future. Look at the TTC, they get paid ridiculous amounts for doing some menial work. Every year the price of the TTC has to go up for riders and for what reason? Pretty soon the whole thing is going to collapse or people are going to be fucked over if they absolutely must use the TTC.

I'm not saying that the employees are 100% at fault for the company being in trouble, but the very high wages compared to other jobs could not have helped.
 
YYZ said:
Would they have taken a pay cut?

I don't really like the ideas of unions when they drive up the cost of employment for the company and then the company is in financial trouble in the future. Look at the TTC, they get paid ridiculous amounts for doing some menial work. Every year the price of the TTC has to go up for riders and for what reason? Pretty soon the whole thing is going to collapse or people are going to be fucked over if they absolutely must use the TTC.

I'm not saying that the employees are 100% at fault for the company being in trouble, but the very high wages compared to other jobs could not have helped.
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You capitalist pig. Do you support starving children and private healthcare as well.

I doubt GM seriously tried to lower their pay. The public's gut reaction when a company clashes with a union always hurts the company, and GM has a bad enough image already. just look at the first page.
 
GM is only worth 7 billion, Chrysler was sold off for what, 5 billion....how is Ford looking? Are the vultures circling?
 
Fatghost said:
GM is only worth 7 billion, Chrysler was sold off for what, 5 billion....how is Ford looking? Are the vultures circling?
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I heard Lada (Russian car company) wants to enter the US market, they could partner with one of the US automakers?!?
 
Why am I the bad guy? If you keep demanding raises (or else strike) then it's not going to help the company if they are doing poorly.

I was simply asking if they would have taken a pay cut to keep the plant alive after being shown that there was no other way to keep the plant open through other means.

Few had sympathy for the TTC employees so I don't know where you what you meant with the company looking bad to the public. No one has sympathy for people getting overpaid and the public having to suffer for it.
 
YYZ said:
Why am I the bad guy? If you keep demanding raises (or else strike) then it's not going to help the company if they are doing poorly.

I was simply asking if they would have taken a pay cut to keep the plant alive after being shown that there was no other way to keep the plant open through other means.

Few had sympathy for the TTC employees so I don't know where you what you meant with the company looking bad to the public. No one has sympathy for people getting overpaid and the public having to suffer for it.
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I was being sarcastic.

A lot of Americans are part of unions. Granted the number has fallen and rose over time, but the union is ingrained in America's politics, clearly. Attacking a union always gets support for the union, becuase they are always seen as the only defense for the downtrodden worker. Look at the last strike that got national attention. Most people don't understand why the writers strike occured, but we all knew who the bad guys were, and even when it ended, we picked our winner, even though they "kinda" won.

Americans have an interesting idea on the word overpaid. No one is overpaid if you make the right story. Run a few stories on CNN, MSNBC, hell even FOX about the shrinking middle class, the rising poor, NAFTA and the $30 an hour american is being underpaid.

GM doesn't have the clout to oppose the union. They are backed by several other unions, and if what GM is going through is bad now, imagine a strike.
 
This whole thing is tragic. you know what this does to the economy of Michigan?

avatar299 said:
You capitalist pig. Do you support starving children and private healthcare as well.

I doubt GM seriously tried to lower their pay. The public's gut reaction when a company clashes with a union always hurts the company, and GM has a bad enough image already. just look at the first page.
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Eh, the last round of union talks the public was largely on the side of the big 3. The problem was that the reforms they pushed thru were too little, too late. Shoulda been done 15 years ago. I believe the new deal now got GM off the hook for health care, which is actually a HUGE cost saving measure.
 
YYZ said:
Would they have taken a pay cut?

I don't really like the ideas of unions when they drive up the cost of employment for the company and then the company is in financial trouble in the future. Look at the TTC, they get paid ridiculous amounts for doing some menial work. Every year the price of the TTC has to go up for riders and for what reason? Pretty soon the whole thing is going to collapse or people are going to be fucked over if they absolutely must use the TTC.

I'm not saying that the employees are 100% at fault for the company being in trouble, but the very high wages compared to other jobs could not have helped.
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Late response here.

They couldn't have lowered their pay. It was basically because nobody wanted to buy a truck anymore unless they absolutely needed one for work. Gas is way to high and trucks are guzzlers as it is.

GM knew it was coming probably by last summer.
 
Pelydr said:
I have no idea why anyone would buy a GM made car. They make absolute shit. They are a true American corporation who had their heads shoved far up their own asses. No surprise here!
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Ehhhh I dunno about that, I have a CTS and the car is flat out amazing. I guess there's exceptions to everyone's narrow mindedness? I agree a few cars from the other GM brands are shit, but c'mon now!

I know they were having some factory problems (the workers iirc), not sure if they still are? And when I bought my car there were about 17 Escalades sitting on the lot - dealer said they couldn't pay to get rid of them. With gas prices so high I'm sure it's only gotten worse.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
it really is. I imagine alot of people have lost jobs.
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Not really a problem.
After all, having a job doesn't actually do anybody any good. It's only when that job results in the creation of a useful product that a job is a good thing.

Besides, jobs rarely disappear. In this case, most of those jobs still exist... at competitors' factories.
 
GM made a lot of shitty decisions and seemed to care little about the future. They just cared about their quarterly or annual earnings and that was the furthest they looked at things.

The auto unions are ridiculous but they are not the sole reasons for collapse. I've read their terms and it is outrageous. The union does well until it doesn't. Then you have to lay off thousands of workers at a time because their union terms are too steep. Union leaders know this and basically don't give a fuck. Reducing their terms won't make them an exploited class. European and Japanese labor is a lot more reasonable here.

I have little sympathy for GM outside of its laboring workforce. It has been known for years that the cost of gas would keep rising. I heard this in 2001, months before 9/11. What did GM, Ford, and all those companies do? Keep making more gas guzzlers because after all, they make more money now than high efficiency vehicles. They cared about current profit margins too much and had no future vision. I'm sure all the executives who got paid millions of dollars a year thought they were so ingenious that they didn't think that gas might go higher than $1.30/gallon.
 
It really sucks for all those workers who have to lose their jobs due to incompetent management that bailed on efficient cars and rolled out the Hummer. The management will just walk away with golden parachutes worth millions of dollars.

There is something really wrong with our system wherein execs can fail spectacularly and walk away will multi-millions while employees lose their pensions & healthcare.
 
avatar299 said:
A lot of Americans are part of unions. Granted the number has fallen and rose over time, but the union is ingrained in America's politics, clearly. Attacking a union always gets support for the union, becuase they are always seen as the only defense for the downtrodden worker. Look at the last strike that got national attention. Most people don't understand why the writers strike occured, but we all knew who the bad guys were, and even when it ended, we picked our winner, even though they "kinda" won.
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yep, Americans love their unions alright.

I have little sympathy for GM outside of its laboring workforce. It has been known for years that the cost of gas would keep rising. I heard this in 2001, months before 9/11. What did GM, Ford, and all those companies do? Keep making more gas guzzlers because after all, they make more money now than high efficiency vehicles. They cared about current profit margins too much and had no future vision. I'm sure all the executives who got paid millions of dollars a year thought they were so ingenious that they didn't think that gas might go higher than $1.30/gallon.
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I doubt most executives cared. The reality is that executive pay in American corporatism is tied to meeting / beating current estimates on profitability / growth that are dictated by consultants and analysts at IBs and other wall street firms. Taking the "long term" view doesn't pay, so why bother? The guys running the auto companies made millions on performance bonuses / stock options while they were at the helm. Now that the companies are in the shitter they get shown the door with generous severance packages. I'm sure they're crying themselves to sleep over this.
 
whytemyke said:
This whole thing is tragic. you know what this does to the economy of Michigan?
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I'm in the market for a new job and there were a few metallurgy positions open in Michigan and for that reason, I'm wary of moving there.
that and it's fucking Michigan >_>
 
speculawyer said:
It really sucks for all those workers who have to lose their jobs due to incompetent management that bailed on efficient cars and rolled out the Hummer. The management will just walk away with golden parachutes worth millions of dollars.

There is something really wrong with our system wherein execs can fail spectacularly and walk away will multi-millions while employees lose their pensions & healthcare.
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Milton-Friedman.jpg


The free market at its finest!
 
Fatghost said:
GM is only worth 7 billion, Chrysler was sold off for what, 5 billion....how is Ford looking? Are the vultures circling?
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The vultures were circling when I left Ford in 2006.
 
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW SEBRING??

Jesus wtf were they thinking.

Thank god Cerebus is reworking that shitbox asap and trying to get a less assier looking car out there.
 
I think Ford is in very good standing. They make a fuck-ton of money overseas. The Mondeo has been one of the best selling cars for the past 15 years. The new Mustang in the US has been selling extremely well, too.

They still got their stake in Volvo as their luxury division.

Hell, until recently they owned Aston Martin, Land Rover, and Jaguar and made them extremely profitable ventures.
 
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