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[Zakalwe]

I bought Bloodbourne a few months ago, the version with the DLC.

I never played a souls game before (aside from a very brief stint with 1 on PC pre-durante). I got as far as the guy with the machine gun (?) on top of the tower, and just couldn't go on.

It was difficult, but not crushingly so. I enjoyed the challenge, but it seems I just don't have the patience for the tiral and error aspects, I just don't find it fun.

The purchase was digital, so I'm stuck with it. Do you think playing through with a guide and just experiencing the way it all unfolds will be enough? I'll still get the challenge of each individual enemy of course, but the exploration and surprise elements would be removed.

Currently finished all the games I have and waiting for the next batch to release, so this could get me through the next week or so potentially.

 

[Newtype-001]

they were cheap lategame yeah, but getting the money to buy them early on would also require farming, and choosing to buy those instead of levelling.
If you just wanted to keep trying a boss, you eventually run out, and have to fight random enemies for a while.

what no.
theyre cheap all the way through mostly late game is where the price increases either then or on ng+ i didnt have to grind.

Level Up>spend remaining echoes on blood vials
repeat

 

[Magic Mushroom]

The purchase was digital, so I'm stuck with it. Do you think playing through with a guide and just experiencing the way it all unfolds will be enough? I'll still get the challenge of each individual enemy of course, but the exploration and surprise elements would be removed.

If it works for you, why not? To me it would lose a lot of what makes the game so special in the first place, which is finding out things on your own. I don't think the game is trial and error though. The game is challenging, but not unfair and you can overcome any challenge if you stay focused. A bit like games used to be.

 

[Theslammer]

compared to estus where you can push forward without having to worry about that? yes its an annoyance.

You can run out of estus and have to refill it at a bonfire, especially with no bonfire nearby.

It's also a different game. But you're changing the subject: you have trouble maintaining vials, so it's a strike against the game. I don't have trouble, but that doesn't count because... reasons? Silliness.

 

[AALLx]

Initiating an attack on most bosses just gets you killed in one combo, so you seem to basically dodge or wait until they do something parryable or punishable. If theres a different way to play the game then show me a video or something.

Here's my lvl135 NG+ video on the hardest boss in the game

Spoiler

Bloody Crow of Cainhurst

. No viscerals, and I initiated most of the attacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQDnC3mlsFg

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

You can run out of estus and have to refill it at a bonfire, especially with no bonfire nearby.

It's also a different game. But you're changing the subject: you have trouble maintaining vials, so it's a strike against the game. I don't have trouble, but that doesn't count because... reasons? Silliness.

my point was i couldn't possibly care any less about how good you are at the game, so im not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Here's my lvl135 NG+ video on the hardest boss in the game

Spoiler

Bloody Crow of Cainhurst

. No viscerals, and I initiated most of the attacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQDnC3mlsFg

I don't remember this enemy, why is it the hardest boss? Looks like every other hunter I ran into

 

[Theslammer]

my point was i couldn't possibly care any less about how good you are at the game, so im not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Your argument against Bloodborne is you're running out of vials.

I don't. So that's not a problem with the game.

 

[groansey]

I do wonder if I'd prefer a Dark Souls title, with it offering some defensive tactics (and a shield, right?).

The principle of dropping the player into hellish environment without any direction and asking them to battle their way through it - I could understand how that could be amazing in a metroidvania sense. The passion with which folks have talked about the DS series does sell it, but the abstract reality of BB was just bewildering, not fun and the substitution of a tutorial and instructions with splurges of sick spitting out meta comments... I just didn't get on with it. Is it important to play these games on release for that communal aspect? Do DS2 or DS3 offer a decent starting point for those unfamilier with DeS/DS?

 

[Ducktail]

I was afraid of this. Is this the general sentiment among hardcore BB fans? (I consider BB to be the best game I have ever had the pleasure of playing). Was looking for something to tide me over on the PS4 till the new DS3 DLC comes out (just finished The Last Guardian last night).

Nioh shines in a few areas. Gameplay wise I think it's a better game. It's well worth the money, but I wouldn't try to compare it to Bloodborne too much.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Your argument against Bloodborne is you're running out of vials.

I don't. So that's not a problem with the game.

after a certain point i never ran out actually. Early on they seemed pretty rare.
not sure how thats "my argument against bloodborne" when ive made it pretty clear how much I loathe the load times and camera

 

[Thornton Reed]

can someone answer me this. I have a cloud save of the game where i'm at the last boss

Spoiler

moon presence

if i buy the old hunters can i access it from this point in the game or will i have to start a new game plus and do the first part of the game again?

 

[myco666]

I was afraid of this. Is this the general sentiment among hardcore BB fans? (I consider BB to be the best game I have ever had the pleasure of playing). Was looking for something to tide me over on the PS4 till the new DS3 DLC comes out (just finished The Last Guardian last night).

Combat is great and maybe even better due to how much more complex it is. It does really lack in atmosphere, music, art and spectacle though. None of the bosses so far don't have similiar style oppressiveness to them. They are harder but there is something missing.

 

[Gbraga]

I do think the Estus approach, specifically the one from the first Dark Souls, is the most balanced approach to healing items in their games.

But, that being said, I also believe that the limited Blood Vial system is an important part of encouraging a more aggressive playstyle, along with Rally. Both of these systems are fundamental to make the player more likely to attack in the face of danger, instead of playing defensively.

They also serve to put the player in the hunter's shoes. We go through the same journey so many Yharnam hunters have before, it's a nice little bit of storytelling through mechanics.

I wouldn't change anything about the vials, even if they're not perfect.

 

[Theslammer]

after a certain point i never ran out actually. Early on they seemed pretty rare.
not sure how thats "my argument against bloodborne" when ive made it pretty clear how much I loathe the load times and camera

Camera's pretty easy with the first boss. Other arguments with vials and waiting around are things that are problems with you as the game offers you many ways to prioritize echoes and fight bosses.

The only objective critique is the load time which... eh, game is awesome enough to overcome it. Wouldn't mind shorter load times.

 

[AALLx]

can someone answer me this. I have a cloud save of the game where i'm at the last boss

Spoiler

moon presence

if i buy the old hunters can i access it from this point in the game or will i have to start a new game plus and do the first part of the game again?

I think you can access the DLC. The hunter's dream was already burning for me in NG+ when the DLC came out and I was able to play it without starting over. You just need to touch Laurence's skull after buying the DLC.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I do wonder if I'd prefer a Dark Souls title, with it offering some defensive tactics (and a shield, right?).

The principle of dropping the player into hellish environment without any direction and asking them to battle their way through it - I could understand how that could be amazing in a metroidvania sense. The passion with which folks have talked about the DS series does sell it, but the abstract reality of BB was just bewildering, not fun and the substitution of a tutorial and instructions with splurges of sick spitting out meta comments... I just didn't get on with it. Is it important to play these games on release for that communal aspect? Do DS2 or DS3 offer a decent starting point for those unfamilier with DeS/DS?

They're all pretty much self contained. Obviously it helps to play DS1 before 2 and 3, but the story telling element is vague any way - they work just as self-contained action-RPGs.

The defensive element in Souls is meant to be replaced by the regain system in BB - You are dodging and attacking enemies to regain any lost HP, it's to encourage a more aggressive, active style of play and to differentiate from Souls where sneaking around corners slowly with your shield up or picking off enemies from afar with a bow is a valid style of play not really present in BB. So you may prefer Souls.

But the style of dropping you in the world and having you learn what to do for yourself with minimum instruction is a series staple and not unique to Bloodborne.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Camera's pretty easy with the first boss.

yeah no, half of the deaths in the game were because of the camera either getting lost in a wall or lost in a boss. I think I actually just turned the ps4 off in one of the challice dungeons where you cant go anywhere near the walls vs this boss or it would flip out.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

I don't remember this enemy, why is it the hardest boss?

Last part of Eileen the Crow's side quest and he really is a complete bastard.

I've followed you're complaints over the past few pages and they seem to amount to 'farming vials is annoying' and 'all weapons but the axe are 'rubbish'"

I've completed the game perhaps four times now and I can only remember a handful of farming runs, if that - none that stick out in my mind anyway. I far prefer it over Dark Souls Estos system and I couldn't tell you why, but I do.

And, the claim about all weapons being 'rubbish' apart from the axe is completely discreditable nonsense. Pound-for-pound, LHB, The Kirkhammer and the Whirligig Saw will put out more damage that the axe, but every one of them will eat Stamina for breakfast too. A smart build will put a decent Radiant Blood Gem in there to offset this, but you'll still have a big wind up on attacks.

I see Bloodborne constantly attacked for the lack of weapons, but if Dark Souls twenty-five-versions-of-basic-straight-sword approach is 'variety' then count me out. Bloodborne's weapons are all very indvidiual (even the Saw Cleaver and Spear play differently) and they all offer a range of combos and converted forms (The Kirkhammer is absurdly versatile in this respect). Combined with the range of effects you get from blood gems, there's a combat depth that manages to be both more refined and focused in it's approach, while offering a genuinely varied experience.

 

[Gbraga]

I do wonder if I'd prefer a Dark Souls title, with it offering some defensive tactics (and a shield, right?).

The principle of dropping the player into hellish environment without any direction and asking them to battle their way through it - I could understand how that could be amazing in a metroidvania sense. The passion with which folks have talked about the DS series does sell it, but the abstract reality of BB was just bewildering, not fun and the substitution of a tutorial and instructions with splurges of sick spitting out meta comments... I just didn't get on with it. Is it important to play these games on release for that communal aspect? Do DS2 or DS3 offer a decent starting point for those unfamilier with DeS/DS?

Is it not viable to you to play the first Dark Souls? I think that would be the best starting point.

 

[Greedings]

I also despise the camera in Bloodborne. It's pretty crappy.

 

[Gbraga]

I also despise the camera in Bloodborne. It's pretty crappy.

I always read that for every Souls game, but I never had a problem, personally.

You just need to treat lock-on as a mechanic like any other. Some times you'll want to use it, other times you won't. Just like jumping, or transformation attacks, or creating blood bullets. There are times where you should just remove lock-on and manually control the camera. Especially against larger enemies.

And the game definitely expects you to treat it that way, since your dodge completely changes to a roll if you don't have lock-on.

 

[Theslammer]

yeah no, half of the deaths in the game were because of the camera either getting lost in a wall or lost in a boss. I think I actually just turned the ps4 off in one of the challice dungeons where you cant go anywhere near the walls vs this boss or it would flip out.

Not at all. Deaths will come from the game being hard. Lock-on is also extremely helpful. Everything seems to revolve around the game being quite difficult for you.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Not at all. Deaths will come from the game being hard. Everything seems to revolve around the game being quite difficult for you.

do you really want me to congratulate your elite bloodborne skills or something? its not going to happen. The game was mostly easy, and the camera made it harder in a way that was the opposite of fun.

 

[AALLx]

I don't remember this enemy, why is it the hardest boss? Looks like every other hunter I ran into

Have you done NPC quests? Reached Cainhurst? Upper Cathedral Ward? Kidnapped by bag-dudes? Have you truly seen most of the game? Tried most of the weapons? I'm really starting to question whether you truly did understand the game.

 

[Zakalwe]

If it works for you, why not? To me it would lose a lot of what makes the game so special in the first place, which is finding out things on your own. I don't think the game is trial and error though. The game is challenging, but not unfair and you can overcome any challenge if you stay focused. A bit like games used to be.

It felt very much trial and error to me. Like, you have to die to specif enemies sometimes to understand their patterns, or sometimes something will surprise you and kill you outright and you'll know for next time. I don't really think this can be denied, it seems like quite a heavy aspect of the game.

I love challenging myself, but I found this a bit too tedious.

I love the design, the core of the combat, the art... so I think playing through with a guide might still be fun. I'll give it a go anyway I think.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Have you done NPC quests? Reached Cainhurst? Upper Cathedral Ward? Kidnapped by bag-dudes? Have you truly seen most of the game? Tried most of the weapons? I'm really starting to question whether you truly did understand the game.

did cainhurst, the bag thing happened but thats just an area you end up in later in the game. looks like you're just another person who instead of actually listening will just assume things and say "ur just not good".
Most of the side quests did not really add anything to the game for me, other than a piece of gibberish dialogue that I would probably have to read the wiki on to even get its relevance :/

 

[mickcenary]

It's funny how some of the criticisms levelled at this absolute gem of a game are nothing but positives for me.

"Boo! I only used one weapon the entire game!" = a slew of weapons so delightfully unique that you'd happily grow attached to each exclusively for upwards of 30 hours.

"Boo! Where's my fire area and varied colour palette like DS3!?" = one of the most aesthetically cohesive worlds with areas that feel lived-in and like a natural extension of everything that came before them, unlike the extremely gamey and shoehorned variation found in its siblings.

Like others have said, your first Souls game will be the one that has the most lasting effect on you; DS1 legitimately saved my interest in gaming with a design approach that I'd never encountered before. However, Bloodborne is simply the golden child of the family when it comes to design, gameplay and vision.

Glad you're in love, OP.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

It felt very much trial and error to me. Like, you have to die to specif enemies sometimes to understand their patterns, or sometimes something will surprise you and kill you outright and you'll know for next time. I don't really think this can be denied, it seems like quite a heavy aspect of the game.

I love challenging myself, but I found this a bit too tedious.

I love the design, the core of the combat, the art... so I think playing through with a guide might still be fun. I'll give it a go anyway I think.

Well, you don't have to die to understand their patterns, there are players who rarely died at all. Not that I am one of those...
All attacks are telegraphed, you need to play close attention. Like many Japanese games, their are visual and audio cues. And be aware of your surroundings, though traps are often signposted by other players leaving messages.

 

[Theslammer]

do you really want me to congratulate your elite bloodborne skills or something? its not going to happen. The game was mostly easy, and the camera made it harder in a way that was the opposite of fun.

You can't go after a game because you're dying a lot and running out of vials early and then hand wave others who didn't have that problem and claim their lack of issues don't count.

That means the problem is you. You clearly didn't get a handle on the mechanics despite as much as you'd like to claim the game wasn't hard. No biggie.

Have you done NPC quests? Reached Cainhurst? Upper Cathedral Ward? Kidnapped by bag-dudes? Have you truly seen most of the game? Tried most of the weapons? I'm really starting to question whether you truly did understand the game.

Same. Despite his objections, this continues to read as if he missed quite a bit and didn't actually grasp the mechanics as much as he thought. Perhaps he will conquer them in the future and see how good it is, though! It happened to me since I didn't even know how to equip a damn weapon at first, and then I ended up getting a plat. xD~~ Game is crazy rewarding.

 

[Zakalwe]

Well, you don't have to die to understand their patterns, there are players who rarely died at all. Not that I am one of those...
All attacks are telegraphed, you need to play close attention. Like many Japanese games, their are visual and audio cues. And be aware of your surroundings, though traps are often signposted by other players leaving messages.

Obviously some people are hyper good, Yes all attacks are telegraphed etc... but the vast majority will have to trial and error it.

At least every single time I've played, seen someone play in person, or watched a stream this has been the case.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

You can't go after a game because you're dying a lot and running out of vials early and then hand wave others who didn't have that problem and claim their lack of issues don't count.

That means the problem is you. You clearly didn't get a handle on the mechanics despite as much as you'd like to claim the game wasn't hard. No biggie.

if you never had to farm/grind then it most likely was not your first entry in the series.
"you're just not good enough" is not a valid excuse for punishing a new player by forcing them to have to repetitively farm for items so they can have another go at a boss. And ive already said multiple times, that was an early game issue before getting used to the game, but apparently you're stuck on this thing.

Same. Despite his objections, this continues to read as if he missed quite a bit and didn't actually grasp the mechanics as much as he thought. Perhaps he will conquer them in the future and see how good it is, though! It happened to me since I didn't even know how to equip a damn weapon at first, and then I ended up getting a plat. xD~~ Game is crazy rewarding.

you boys positive affirmation is cute

 

[Gbraga]

It felt very much trial and error to me. Like, you have to die to specif enemies sometimes to understand their patterns, or sometimes something will surprise you and kill you outright and you'll know for next time. I don't really think this can be denied, it seems like quite a heavy aspect of the game.

I love challenging myself, but I found this a bit too tedious.

I love the design, the core of the combat, the art... so I think playing through with a guide might still be fun. I'll give it a go anyway I think.

I disagree. Not that I didn't die to some enemies before learning their attacks, especially bosses, but it wouldn't work if it was necessary. And that's an important difference. Just like I beat boses that gave other people a lot of trouble on my first try.

The fact that you have so many i-frames on your dodges and can parry on reaction means that, even though you'll definitely die to enemies every now and then in order to learn, it'll still be your fault when you die. Save for a few bullshit hitboxes every game will have, but it's very much in the minority.

Not to mention the way they incoporate death as part of the gameplay loop and your progression. I die a lot more playing Souls than playing, say, Witcher 3. But it's still much more disappointing when I die in Witcher 3, because it basically means that everything that happened since my last save is meaningless. All of the bullshit slow walking and exploration I did to immerse myself in the world? None of these areas were explored. All of the NPCs I talked? Dialogue was reset. Items I got, things I sold, everything is reset, like it never happened. In Souls, however, you only lose your souls/blood echoes, and your progress stays with you. Upgrade materials, things you bought, shortcuts opened, side quests you advanced... The downside is that you don't get consumables back, but it's a very small price to pay.

The way Souls treats death as part of your progression, rather than a way of saying "this is where your journey ended, you can now load another save and try to rewrite your story!" is a major reason why I never got frustrated playing these games, no matter how much I got my ass kicked at times.

 

[Theslammer]

if you never had to farm/grind then it most likely was not your first entry in the series.
"you're just not good enough" is not a valid excuse for punishing a new player by forcing them to have to repetitively farm for items so they can have another go at a boss.

You must have hated the Final Fantasy series, to which many are classics that required farming!

But Bloodborne doesn't really require you to farm... if you're playing well. If you're running out of blood vials early on, particularly after playing the game, then the game is not as easy as you think it is.

 

[AALLx]

did cainhurst, the bag thing happened but thats just an area you end up in later in the game. looks like you're just another person who instead of actually listening will just assume things and say "ur just not good".
Most of the side quests did not really add anything to the game for me, other than a piece of gibberish dialogue that I would probably have to read the wiki on to even get its relevance :/

I'm not saying you're not good. I'm saying your criticisms ring hollow because your understanding of the game is at a surface level and can only therefore repeat internet memes like "long loading times", "weapon variety", and "blood vials".

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

You must have hated the Final Fantasy series, to which many are classics are required farming!

But Bloodborne doesn't really require you to farm... if you're playing well. If you're running out of blood vials early on, particularly after playing the game, then the game is not as easy as you think it is.

its difficult to new players, but easy once you understand it. Blood starved beast beat us more than any other boss in the entire game because its the first one that really required good use of parry, and kind of had to acquire more antidotes by, you guessed it, farming.

I'm not saying you're not good. I'm saying your criticisms ring hollow because your understanding of the game is at a surface level and can only therefore repeat internet memes like "long loading times", "weapon variety", and "blood vials".

you lost me at memes

 

[Zakalwe]

I disagree. Not that I didn't die to some enemies before learning their attacks, especially bosses, but it wouldn't work if it was necessary. And that's an important difference. Just like I beat boses that gave other people a lot of trouble on my first try.

The fact that you have so many i-frames on your dodges and can parry on reaction means that, even though you'll definitely die to enemies every now and then in order to learn, it'll still be your fault when you do it. Save for a few bullshit hitboxes every game will have, but it's very much in the minority.

Not to mention the way they incoporate death as part of the gameplay loop and your progression. I die a lot more playing Souls than playing, say, Witcher 3. But it's still much more disappointing when I die in Witcher 3, because it basically means that everything that happened since my last save is meaningless. All of the bullshit slow walking and exploration I did to immerse myself in the world? None of these areas were explored. All of the NPCs I talked? Dialogue was reset. Items I got, things I sold, everything is reset, like it never happened. In Souls, however, you only lose your souls/blood echoes, and your progress stays with you. Upgrade materials, things you bought, shortcuts opened, side quests you advanced... The downside is that you don't get consumables back, but it's a very small price to pay.

The way Souls treats death as part of your progression, rather than a way of saying "this is where your journey ended, you can now load another save and try to rewrite your story!" is a major reason why I never got frustrated playing these games, no matter how much I got my ass kicked at times.

That's the thing though, just because the game does allow you to win without trial and error if you're good enough, most players aren't that focused or able most of the time, therefore trial and error becomes a big part of the game.

In fact, most players I've seen play get their arses kicked constantly and their persistence is what makes progress as they learn via trial and error.

 

[Theslammer]

its difficult to new players, but easy once you understand it. Blood starved beast beat us more than any other boss in the entire game because its the first one that really required good use of parry, and kind of had to acquire more antidotes by, you guessed it, farming.

You can buy antidotes. But again, if farming = game isn't a classic, then get rid of many FF games, the Chrono series, and many RPGs from the classic column!

Difficult to new players... yes, the game is supposed to be difficult. For all players, tbh, but especially to new ones. It's an unforgiving world that doesn't want you there. That's not a slight against this game or any game. If you're doing too much farming, then you need to 'git gud' because the game gives you everything you need to do so.

 

[Greedings]

I always read that for every Souls game, but I never had a problem, personally.

You just need to treat lock-on as a mechanic like any other. Some times you'll want to use it, other times you won't. Just like jumping, or transformation attacks, or creating blood bullets. There are times where you should just remove lock-on and manually control the camera. Especially against larger enemies.

And the game definitely expects you to treat it that way, since your dodge completely changes to a roll if you don't have lock-on.

I played through Demon's, Dark and Dark 2 without any camera problems. Only Bloodborne. Maybe it's just the encounter locations, or how the camera aims down slightly to significantly when you lock on.

For me it has the worst camera (not played Ds3 yet though) of the bunch.

You can buy antidotes. But again, if farming = game isn't a classic, then get rid of many FF games, the Chrono series, and many RPGs from the classic column!

Sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[Gbraga]

That's the thing though, just because the game does allow you to win without trial and error if you're good enough, most players aren't that focused or able most of the time, therefore trial and error becomes a big part of the game.

In fact, most players I've seen play get their arses kicked constantly and their persistence is what makes progress as they learn via trial and error.

That's true, but I believe the difference between the game requiring trial and error and players just ending up learning through trial and error is a fundamental one, it's what separates challenging and unfair.

I beat Blood Starved Beast and Shadow of Yharnam on my first try, because I was able to quickly adapt, even though a lot of people got their ass handed to them. And I'm not a particularly good player, so don't take this as a brag post, on the contrary. This would just not be possible if there were bullshit attacks that just kill you out of nowhere and you had no way of anticipating them before dying once.

I played through Demon's, Dark and Dark 2 without any camera problems. Only Bloodborne. Maybe it's just the encounter locations, or how the camera aims down slightly to significantly when you lock on.

For me it has the worst camera (not played Ds3 yet though) of the bunch.

DS3 actually tried to help with that. There are some instances where the camera is pulled back a bit if you're locked-on to a big enemy.

There are still situations where playing unlockable is preferable, but rare are the ones where it's pretty much required.

 

[Jonnax]

I really love the game. But I bought the DLC and try as I might I can't beat the first boss of it.
Every once in a while I fire up the game and try a few times, level up a couple of times, fail again then put it away.

One day Ludwig will go down!

 

[Theslammer]

Sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Most of the side quests did not really add anything to the game for me, other than a piece of gibberish dialogue that I would probably have to read the wiki on to even get its relevance :/

• Eileen has weapons, Bold Hunter's Marks, gestures, two sets of (Henryk's and her own) garb and a Blood Rupture rune.
• Alfred has weapons, garb and a unique rune and arguably his quest even includes Cainhurst, which leads you to:
• Annalise, who has an additional set of armour, weapons and a unique rune.
• Patches the Spider gives you early access to the Lecture Theatre and Nightmare Frontier - he also gives you a very powerful rune and a gesture.
• Valtyr has a unique rune and armour.
• The Church Samaritan is carrying a pretty good rune if you kill him, but if you complete his quest first gives you:
• Adella, who gives you an infinite supply of Blood of Adella Healing vials.
• Arianna, who gives you a limited supply Blood of Arianna healing vials and a pair of shoes.
• The Old Woman, who is a pretty good source of Sedatives early in the game.
• Gascoigne's Daugter, who has an outifit for the Messengers, and whose side quest also includes a pretty good droplet blood gem early in the game.

But all they really add to the game is gibberish dialogue... sure thing.

 

[DieNgamers]

Bloodborne is hardcore, let's not ignore that. I strongly believe that has nothing to do with unfair or bad game design but with the player's understanding of the core mechanics.

For example once I killed Father Gascoigne I restarted the game and got to the same place in half an hour while still completing the area. At that point I had collected a good amount of spare blood vials and bullets, too.

I wouldn't hold being overwhelmed by the beginning against anybody because it is overwhelming in many ways. You have to be alert and observant all the time. It's not something games demand too often nowadays. There's no shame it failing a bit.

It helps asking for beginner tipps when attempting to start playing this one.

 

[Zakalwe]

That's true, but I believe the difference between the game requiring trial and error and players just ending up learning through trial and error is a fundamental one, it's what separates challenging and unfair.

Sure, I never stated I thought it was unfair. I just don't enjoy the trial and error I experienced /before/ I could get to the point where I was good enough to play without it.

Maybe I should try again at some point, I really do love these games and I'd love to get good enough to experience them all without feeling like they're a chore.

 

[Gbraga]

• Eileen has weapons, Bold Hunter's Marks, gestures, two sets of (Henryk's and her own) garb and a unique rune.
• Alfred has weapons, garb and a unique rune and arguably his quest even includes Cainhurst, which leads you to:
• Annalise, who has an additional set of armour, weapons and a unique rune.
• Patches the Spider gives you early access to the Lecture Theatre and Nightmare Frontier - he also gives you a very powerful rune and a gesture.
• Valtyr has a unique rune and armour.
• The Church Samaritan is carrying a pretty good rune if you kill him, but if you complete his quest first gives you:
• Adella, who gives you an infinite supply of Blood of Adella Healing vials.
• Arianna, who gives you a limited supply Blood of Arianna healing vials and a pair of shoes.
• The Old Woman, who is a pretty good source of Sedatives early in the game.
• Gascoigne's Daugter, who has an outifit for the Messengers, and who's side quest also includes a pretty good droplet blood gem early in the game.

But all they really add to the game is gibberish dialogue... sure thing.

Hahahaha, I love your username.

Sure, I never stated I thought it was unfair. I just don't enjoy the trial and error I experienced /before/ I could get to the point where I was good enough to play without it.

Maybe I should try again at some point, I really do love these games and I'd love to get good enough to experience them all without feeling like they're a chore.

Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not arguing against your idea of using guides or anything. If you feel like it would help you appreciate it more, then go for it.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Hahahaha, I love your username.

Got it stuck in my head after playing DSIII.

 

[Theslammer]

• Eileen has weapons, Bold Hunter's Marks, gestures, two sets of (Henryk's and her own) garb and a unique rune.
• Alfred has weapons, garb and a unique rune and arguably his quest even includes Cainhurst, which leads you to:
• Annalise, who has an additional set of armour, weapons and a unique rune.
• Patches the Spider gives you early access to the Lecture Theatre and Nightmare Frontier - he also gives you a very powerful rune and a gesture.
• Valtyr has a unique rune and armour.
• The Church Samaritan is carrying a pretty good rune if you kill him, but if you complete his quest first gives you:
• Adella, who gives you an infinite supply of Blood of Adella Healing vials.
• Arianna, who gives you a limited supply Blood of Arianna healing vials and a pair of shoes.
• The Old Woman, who is a pretty good source of Sedatives early in the game.
• Gascoigne's Daugter, who has an outifit for the Messengers, and who's side quest also includes a pretty good droplet blood gem early in the game.

But all they really add to the game is gibberish dialogue... sure thing.

Let's not forget all the optional areas, some of which will lead to some of these people. Upper Cathedral Ward is cool and has a great gesture that also allows you to get an item from the giant brain/eyeball (forget the name). Cainhurst Castle, which leads to the queen. The Nightmare area that Patches leads you to is completely optional and fun with an optional boss at the end. Old Yarhnam is an optional area with an optional boss and an optional character that you can fight who will give you a good item.

Etc. etc.

 

[Memento]

It is the game of the generation, no doubt.

Fantastic achievement in all fronts.

 

[Zakalwe]

Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not arguing against your idea of using guides or anything. If you feel like it would help you appreciate it more, then go for it.

I just want to experience them. My current mindset is that I won't enjoy myself, so it seems like a way I'd get to at least see the sights.

Maybe this way I'll get a feel for it and it'll open the doors to the Souls series too, and there's always new game+.

We'll see... downloading it now. Thanks for the replies!

PS - Overwatch is the game of the generation!

 

[DieNgamers]

I just want to experience them. My current mindset is that I won't enjoy myself, so it seems like a way I'd get to at least see the sights.

Maybe this way I'll get a feel for it and it'll open the doors to the Souls series too, and there's always new game+.

We'll see... downloading it now. Thanks for the replies!

PS - Overwatch is the game of the generation!

I think we can agree that this gen is fucking great, right? At least for me there are so much more straightup hits that in the 360/PS3/Wii generation. The technical potential is actually being used!