-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Good games with surprising bad design choices
- Thread starter ronito
- Start date
abstract alien
Member
Cant even replay the game because of it.DevilWillcry said:
I like the idea of tripping, but not fucking randomly. Has there been confirmation on what actually causes it, or is it in fact, random?Funchameleon said:
That was the best part of the game for me.Cant0na said:
Green Mamba
Member
When you tap the control stick to dash in Brawl, there's like a 1% chance that you'll trip.
And it's completely fucktarded. No game should randomly punish you for moving. It's not funny, it's just stupid.
And it's completely fucktarded. No game should randomly punish you for moving. It's not funny, it's just stupid.
Funchameleon
Banned
It's funny because it spits in the face of people who take that game way too seriously, on two fronts: they hate random elements and they take pride in dashing around like retards. If you can't laugh at losing to Pikachu because Solid Snake randomly tripped over, you might be one of them.
New Super Mario Bros. - I love the game, but I despise the save system. For the past few days, I've been stuck trying the get through the latter half of World Five. Every time I get to the second to last (or last?) level, I lose all my lives. This means that I have to go back and complete the three levels before that again in order to get back to the one I keep failing at. The bottom line is I should have the option to save after completing each level, at the very least.
I'll start with the obvious:
Halo 3 - Cortana and the last level. Bungle really phoned in the last levels, down to the painting backgrounds for the cutscenes. Not to mention the use of the Flood in every game of the trilogy. Fucking Ensemble comes in on their first game and makes the Flood much more interesting in Halo Wars than Bungle ever did in three Halo games, short of PERHAPS the opening segments in Halo: CE when the Flood first showed up.
Bionic Commando - The save system. I LOVE this game and consider it to be one of the top five best games I've played this year. But when I finally work my ass off and get a challenge completed like killing five or six grunts with one grenade, only to die five minutes later and have to do the challenge over, that really sucks. Other than that, awesome fucking game.
Prototype - The Elisabeth Greene and final boss fights. It took me two hours to beat Greene, and I didn't even die. It was just trying to fucking find out how to kill her. The final boss fight was just downright annoying with the constant barrage of tentacle attacks that literally lower 3/4 of your health.
Halo 3 - Cortana and the last level. Bungle really phoned in the last levels, down to the painting backgrounds for the cutscenes. Not to mention the use of the Flood in every game of the trilogy. Fucking Ensemble comes in on their first game and makes the Flood much more interesting in Halo Wars than Bungle ever did in three Halo games, short of PERHAPS the opening segments in Halo: CE when the Flood first showed up.
Bionic Commando - The save system. I LOVE this game and consider it to be one of the top five best games I've played this year. But when I finally work my ass off and get a challenge completed like killing five or six grunts with one grenade, only to die five minutes later and have to do the challenge over, that really sucks. Other than that, awesome fucking game.
Prototype - The Elisabeth Greene and final boss fights. It took me two hours to beat Greene, and I didn't even die. It was just trying to fucking find out how to kill her. The final boss fight was just downright annoying with the constant barrage of tentacle attacks that literally lower 3/4 of your health.
MvmntInGrn
Member
The MGS4 thing mentioned slipped my mind (and I have no clue how). Downright sloppy to have so many installs like that, I find it very hard to believe there was no other way. One of the reasons I don't put it in more often. Amazing game but that only makes such a decision stand out even more.
*shrugs* I guess I should just be happy I still really enjoyed it. I hope GG finds a happy medium with their next title if it is an FPS.
I don't understand how the controls bothered some people so much. I liked the way the game felt, yes it departed form typical console FPS feel but that hardly destroyed anything.Cant0na said:
*shrugs* I guess I should just be happy I still really enjoyed it. I hope GG finds a happy medium with their next title if it is an FPS.
Green Mamba
Member
Funchameleon said:
Wait, you like the game randomly forcing you to lose control? Can you even imagine trying to play Prince of Persia but every time you grab a ledge there's a 1% chance that the Prince will lose his grip and fall to his death? Or Super Mario Galaxy randomly having Mario fail to do a quick turn around backflip? Brawl shouldn't get a pass on an awful game design decision just because you hate how some people play the game. The nerve of those assholes, playing a very open ended game how they choose!
I really can't believe I have to argue this point. I like playing with items, I like the inherent randomness of Smash Bros. But I also like to feel I have control over my character. I suppose it would be perfectly fine to have a 1% chance of missing the ledge when you attempt to grab it too? That'd teach those tourney playing losers a thing or two, eh?
Xenogears - One of my favorite rpgs hampered by some of the worst and tedious dungeons in a rpg ever.
The annoying loading when you save in pretty much every DQ game, good thing saving loads much better in DQIX at least.
Final Fantasy Tactics - Characters permanently dying after 3 turns of being dead, is a really frustrating design for me
The annoying loading when you save in pretty much every DQ game, good thing saving loads much better in DQIX at least.
Final Fantasy Tactics - Characters permanently dying after 3 turns of being dead, is a really frustrating design for me
abstract alien
Member
Its pretty much the equivalent of having mario randomly not jump as high in galaxy, killing you randomly. Its a bad choice in game design, especially when you have other techniques, like samus's multi ball jump, that cant be done unless you take the game seriously. I dont really understand the logic...especially from a design standpoint. I love brawl, more than melee, but tripping is pretty stupid. Maybe if it only happened once every 500 matches it would actually be funny...but jokes arent really funny when they are repeated often.Funchameleon said:
Why stop there...maybe in the next zelda, there should be a 1% chance of your data being deleted when you press "Load".Green Mamba said:
Funchameleon
Banned
Both examples are of singleplayer games and aren't exactly relevant to the party atmosphere multiplayer Smash Bros encourages. It's more analogous to fighting for a pokeball only for a goldeen to emerge and flop around uselessly, except it's a deliberate middle finger to tournament players telling them to go find another game and can't be toggled off.
Green Mamba said:
Sarcasm. How original.
...um.
The tripping thing is funny. It's a pratfall, you know, physical comedy. That game hates me in all other random elements; I like having tripping in there to even the score just a bit.
No, an awful design element would be the controls in Phourglass. I understand the need to use the touch screen, but not for everything! Not for walking! Or, as in my case, running off the edge of the map several times. Seriously, guys. There's a d-pad right there. Please let me use it. Please?
azentium said:
Once you beat the game, you get the ability to save at any point on the overworld.
If all else fails, just go back and run through the first mini-castle real quick when you want to save.
Just be glad you're not playing the NES games. Getting a Game Over in those meant you had to restart the entire game. And they were harder and lives were far less plentiful.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
No kidding. That shit pisses me off. Same thing with any game that starts you out on "New Game" instead of "Continue".Aeris130 said:
abstract alien
Member
That still doesnt make any sense when they have advanced moves in there that must be taken seriously in order to do. Hell, even jigglypuff's counter is harder to do in brawl. Why have advanced techniques only to punish a player for...ummm...moving?Funchameleon said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
I thought the aiming in Morrowind was bad, too.Giolon said:
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Because no concievable control setup could possibly incorporate both? You have to think about... WAIT A MINUTE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A NINTENDO GAME YOU'RE NOT fortified_concept!jdogmoney said:
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Lost Magic- Making the game a wanna-be RTS instead of an ARPG like it should have been! Yes, I know the game wasn't really good, but if they had put the magic system in an aRPG (assuming they gave it a decent plot too), it would been a excellent game.
Pro tip: Save your coins for when you want to save your game. Spending them gives you the option to save quickly between levels.
Bubble Bobble Plus has no save system between levels of any kind. You have to play the whole game in one sitting or just leave your Wii on. Whose stupid idea was that? It's a perfect game to be played in small doses, but for that I have to stick to the original version. What a waste.
Bubble Bobble Plus has no save system between levels of any kind. You have to play the whole game in one sitting or just leave your Wii on. Whose stupid idea was that? It's a perfect game to be played in small doses, but for that I have to stick to the original version. What a waste.
viciouskillersquirrel said:Because no concievable control setup could possibly incorporate both? You have to think about... WAIT A MINUTE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A NINTENDO GAME YOU'RE NOT fortified_concept!
That's true, I'm not! Aah!
Also.
Movement->d-pad
Everything else->touchscreen, mic, what have you.
What's the problem?
Femmeworth
Banned
Resident Evil 5
-Sheva
-Inventory System
-The final boss and scenario
-Sheva
-Inventory System
-The final boss and scenario
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
Wha....?!viciouskillersquirrel said:Because no concievable control setup could possibly incorporate both? You have to think about... WAIT A MINUTE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A NINTENDO GAME YOU'RE NOT fortified_concept!
boiled goose
good with gravy
azentium said:
i take it you didnt play many NES or even SNES level games...
in those if you have a gameover, it is all the way the the beginning, no save spots at all.
by the way, NSMB is a freaking cake walk
the only design flaw in that game is having way too many powerups in the levels and not having a hard mode
abstract alien
Member
I never really had as issue in PH as far as movement is concerned, I found it very smooth and responsive. The dungeon design however, left a bit of a sour taste, although I did still enjoy them. The design was a bit too simple, and the blocky look of them wasnt exactly pleasing when the game itself was nice graphically and animation wise.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Foxtail said:
changing clothes was surprisingly retarded. enough to make it a huge pain and a deterrent from going to the shops
another problem was driving to the starts of missions again after failing, not a big deal for many 1 part missions, but for the races it was a fucking pain, especially cuz you might have to try them a few times. drive to the mission start, drive to get the car, drive to the beginning of the race. such a pain... :S
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Hand cramping. Ever play Metroid Prime Hunters? How about Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland? It's a sub-optimal arrangement, in my opinion.jdogmoney said:
He has stolen fortified_concept's avatar. I only realised that it wasn't him when I saw that jdogmoney was talking about liking a Nintendo game.Jive Turkey said:
Add me to the people who said the spike tower from God of War. The game went from "Amazing" to "Good" for me after that.
Also, the absolutely shitty decision in Jak 2 where you had to go place to place to get missions imitating GTA. Urban exploration in the game contributed nothing to gameplay except from going to one point to another, then to just get out of the city itself to the real fun. They could have just excluded the city and built the game around the levels and it would be the best platformer on the PS2.
Also, the absolutely shitty decision in Jak 2 where you had to go place to place to get missions imitating GTA. Urban exploration in the game contributed nothing to gameplay except from going to one point to another, then to just get out of the city itself to the real fun. They could have just excluded the city and built the game around the levels and it would be the best platformer on the PS2.
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Okay, in all fairness, I have never played Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.
That is how I played Diamond, though, for hours, with no cramping difficulties. (I guess that has a lot less, you know, actual gameplay, though.)
Stylus Zelda wasn't for me. Give me buttons any day.
EDIT: Dang, someone has NPH riding a unicorn? Sad. Away it goes.
Infinite Undiscovery.
A potentially good Tri-Ace game loaded with design flaws.
-You can't even open a door without manually putting your sword away... Come on.
-Dungeons are repetitive, boring, and maze-like (maze dungeons are the worst).
-INVISIBLE WALLS
-The world map is too big and empty.
-The battle system just feels...weird. It is the best part of the game though, unfortunately.
-During battle, party members feel out of control, and you constantly have to yell at them to heal you and your party. "SOMEBODY TREAT THE INJURED!!", You'll hear that a lot.
-Though you get some awesome special moves that consume AP, you have to be careful about using them because AP doesn't regenerate unless you use an item... And in an action RPG, I think it's more fun when AP constantly regenerates (or regenerates when you attack an enemy) so that you don't feel hesitant about using fun special moves.
-The story never hints at what to do next, and when you press the start button for a "tip" it just summarizes what you just did, not what you're supposed to do... Which really isn't helpful at all. Nor do your party members give you advice when you talk to them. They randomly will recite a line on what to do next BY CHANCE... One time I walked deep into a forest, figured out it wasn't where I was supposed to go, walked all the way back (it seriously took like 25 minutes because of the stupid maze dungeon design) then when I reached the exit my teammate randomly said "We have to head East!" ...Real helpful.
-Everyone hates the main character, even to the second disc... It gets old after a while, especially when you don't feel like a part of the "group"... Which is kind of important in many JRPGs.
-I know this is just nitpicking, but the achievements are horrendous, as many of them are situational (though, Blue Dragon did the same thing pretty much, and that's a great game).
-Dinner Dance (I don't know if it's the best or worst thing about the game, but it's definitely worth mentioning).
A potentially good Tri-Ace game loaded with design flaws.
-You can't even open a door without manually putting your sword away... Come on.
-Dungeons are repetitive, boring, and maze-like (maze dungeons are the worst).
-INVISIBLE WALLS
-The world map is too big and empty.
-The battle system just feels...weird. It is the best part of the game though, unfortunately.
-During battle, party members feel out of control, and you constantly have to yell at them to heal you and your party. "SOMEBODY TREAT THE INJURED!!", You'll hear that a lot.
-Though you get some awesome special moves that consume AP, you have to be careful about using them because AP doesn't regenerate unless you use an item... And in an action RPG, I think it's more fun when AP constantly regenerates (or regenerates when you attack an enemy) so that you don't feel hesitant about using fun special moves.
-The story never hints at what to do next, and when you press the start button for a "tip" it just summarizes what you just did, not what you're supposed to do... Which really isn't helpful at all. Nor do your party members give you advice when you talk to them. They randomly will recite a line on what to do next BY CHANCE... One time I walked deep into a forest, figured out it wasn't where I was supposed to go, walked all the way back (it seriously took like 25 minutes because of the stupid maze dungeon design) then when I reached the exit my teammate randomly said "We have to head East!" ...Real helpful.
-Everyone hates the main character, even to the second disc... It gets old after a while, especially when you don't feel like a part of the "group"... Which is kind of important in many JRPGs.
-I know this is just nitpicking, but the achievements are horrendous, as many of them are situational (though, Blue Dragon did the same thing pretty much, and that's a great game).
-Dinner Dance (I don't know if it's the best or worst thing about the game, but it's definitely worth mentioning).
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Diamond has very few (if any) touchscreen gameplay, even where it made sense, like in using Pokemon boxes. Phantom Hourglass was built around the touchscreen and a lot of the items and puzzles simply wouldn't have worked without touchscreen control. I mean, I know it's not everyone's cup of tea or whatever, but button controls would have resulted in a broken control system.jdogmoney said:
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Lies! There's no reason you couldn't have kept all of the items and whatnot touch-based, and still have movement mapped to the d-pad. This might be bitterness at dieing in a Zelda game for the first time since Link's Awakening, but I wasn't able to play the darn thing. Ah well.
Speaking of Pokeymans, freaking HMs. I don't like losing a spot or two in my party for HM slaves. Why not give me a lantern instead of Flash?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
the best entry in the thread.Foxtail said:
ZeroRay said:
The spike tower wasn't so much poor design as poor execution. It seemed like a bit where they had to get the game out the door so they didn't have a chance to go back and polish it up like the rest of the game. And that goes with the whole Hades area in general. It's just most noticeable with the spinning towers because of the iffy collision detection.
The really poorly designed part of God of War, to me, was the bit where you have to push the dude in the cage up the slope while fighting infinitely respawning enemies. Then there's a similar bit in GoW2 where you're pushing a box down a room that's blowing fire back at you, pushing the box backwards, and damaging you if you step out of the small safe area behind the box, while fighting infinitely respawning enemies.
Halo
The flood in general. They are just unpleasant enemies that rush you the whole time. Compared to the covenant enemies, which have quite advanced AI, they seem like a detriment to the series. I realize that the flood have too major a role in the halo storyline and universe to simply cut out AND that they give variety to the gameplay because they generally behave differently, but I wish they had thought of something better than "parasite that rushes you". Infact, I'm really disappointed by the lack of new enemies during the progression of the series in general. The only new enemy is the brutes, and even then we lose the Elites in the process.
Repetitive enviroments in the first game, but that quickly changed in the sequels. However, we seem to have lost the open world feeling in Halo. Halo is still very open ended, but the way Halo 1 was. And I have no clue what bungie was thinking when they made cortana. (Yes, MagniHarvard, I know you enjoyed Cortana, but not all of us are masochists)
While I don't feel that the arbitor was a bad concept, I think they handled the way they presented the Covenant story line was pretty amateurish. This is mostly in Halo 2, as I don't believe that Halo 3 had too many stupid moments storywise, but the entire arbitor storyline was just very badly done.
Bungie HATES continuity. When I set down to play Halo 1, 2, and 3, side by side, I am amazed how different these games are when directly compared to each other. Just look up how the Brutes looked in Halo 2 in comparison to 3. Also, I feel a berserk Brute in Halo 2 is 20 times as deadly as in Halo 3. And the elites are much more agile in 1 than they are in 2, and they're much lankier too. Some changes are good though, like weapon balance seems to be the best in Halo 3. And taking down scarabs is MUCH more fun in Halo 3 than 2 (which, btw, is what probably had the greatest makeover from Halo 2 than anything else)
Finally, the Matchmaking. Oh god. I love Halo's multiplayer, but I hate how it doesn't allow me to play what I want to play. I never understood this design choice. And why does it load maps, and THEN have the players decide whether they want to veto it or not? Why can't there be a system that has you choose what gametype and maps to exclude so the game will search only the ones you want?
Overall, I still feel that Halo is one of the best FPS's on the market
The flood in general. They are just unpleasant enemies that rush you the whole time. Compared to the covenant enemies, which have quite advanced AI, they seem like a detriment to the series. I realize that the flood have too major a role in the halo storyline and universe to simply cut out AND that they give variety to the gameplay because they generally behave differently, but I wish they had thought of something better than "parasite that rushes you". Infact, I'm really disappointed by the lack of new enemies during the progression of the series in general. The only new enemy is the brutes, and even then we lose the Elites in the process.
Repetitive enviroments in the first game, but that quickly changed in the sequels. However, we seem to have lost the open world feeling in Halo. Halo is still very open ended, but the way Halo 1 was. And I have no clue what bungie was thinking when they made cortana. (Yes, MagniHarvard, I know you enjoyed Cortana, but not all of us are masochists)
While I don't feel that the arbitor was a bad concept, I think they handled the way they presented the Covenant story line was pretty amateurish. This is mostly in Halo 2, as I don't believe that Halo 3 had too many stupid moments storywise, but the entire arbitor storyline was just very badly done.
Bungie HATES continuity. When I set down to play Halo 1, 2, and 3, side by side, I am amazed how different these games are when directly compared to each other. Just look up how the Brutes looked in Halo 2 in comparison to 3. Also, I feel a berserk Brute in Halo 2 is 20 times as deadly as in Halo 3. And the elites are much more agile in 1 than they are in 2, and they're much lankier too. Some changes are good though, like weapon balance seems to be the best in Halo 3. And taking down scarabs is MUCH more fun in Halo 3 than 2 (which, btw, is what probably had the greatest makeover from Halo 2 than anything else)
Finally, the Matchmaking. Oh god. I love Halo's multiplayer, but I hate how it doesn't allow me to play what I want to play. I never understood this design choice. And why does it load maps, and THEN have the players decide whether they want to veto it or not? Why can't there be a system that has you choose what gametype and maps to exclude so the game will search only the ones you want?
Overall, I still feel that Halo is one of the best FPS's on the market
disappeared
Banned
I think many games (good and bad) have forgotten their own credits screens. They're there for us to see what is under the hood, and this bullshit of logos and copyrights and disclaimers before the game even starts needs to fucking stop. We're all just mashing buttons trying to skip them anyway.