• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Gran Turismo 7 to only support Ray tracing in Replays

Celcius

°Temp. member
Mar 11, 2009
8,319
2,725
1,455
Give me 1080p 30fps if you have to, but I want to trace the rays!

In all seriousness though, I kinda feel like I've been lied to. I hope the game is at least fun at this point...
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: Dunky
Oct 26, 2018
22,573
31,738
885
Unless a game can handle RT well and the rest of the game is already slick (res and frames and textures), then go for it.

But if the game gets crippled, or it's like some of those RT shots weve seen in some next gen games where the RT reflection is super jaggy and low res, then forget it.

Dont jam it in a game unless it's done well.
 

Snake29

Member
Jul 30, 2013
2,536
4,132
725
The Netherlands
Forza 7 was better than GT Sport.
Inglorious Basterds Idk GIF


No one is talking about Forza 8 because we won't see it until next year.

Forza 7 better? That game didn't exist anymore in peoples their mind. No it even was the least popular Motorsports game of all, and it was never better then GT Sports, hell GT Sports has still a lot of new content and is a big eSports title.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Dec 26, 2008
12,640
7,719
1,560
Spain
Forza has been kicking gt’s ass since xbox 360.

I don’t have a horse in the race and don’t even have a new xbox but i’ll laugh so hard if forza 8 has RT.

Oh yeah.

Let's be honest, the last great GT was 4. Since then, the premier connsole racer has been Forza.
 

truth411

Member
May 19, 2014
2,312
1,359
630
No 120fps mode make sense, since its a cross gen game with cross gen online. (Ps4 and Ps5 play together). But no Ray Tracing in game is a disappointment, just drop resolution to 1440p, Native 4k at 60fps is a waste of resources.
 

Snake29

Member
Jul 30, 2013
2,536
4,132
725
The Netherlands
Oh yeah.

Let's be honest, the last great GT was 4. Since then, the premier connsole racer has been Forza.

So premier that the devs dumbed the series for a “reboot”.

ManaByte ManaByte You can downplay what you want, but its a fact that Forza 7 was the worst and least popular version in the series. The devs didn’t really bother much about this game post-launch. And since you guys like to compare Horizon with almost every game (i mean wtf even with Rift Apart??) Horizon itself destroyed the popularity of Motorsports.
 
Last edited:

Ozriel

Member
Aug 25, 2021
345
716
265
So premier that the devs dumbed the series for a “reboot”.

ManaByte ManaByte You can downplay what you want, but its a fact that Forza 7 was the worst and least popular version in the series. The devs didn’t really bother much about this game post-launch. And since you guys like to compare Horizon with almost every game (i mean wtf even with Rift Apart??) Horizon itself destroyed the popularity of Motorsports.

‘Worst’ FM Still did way better than GT Sport in reviews, though.
 

StateofMajora

Member
Aug 7, 2020
1,955
2,538
380
Oh yeah.

Let's be honest, the last great GT was 4. Since then, the premier connsole racer has been Forza.
Best overall would be Project gotham 3 and 4 for xbox 360 and driveclub for last gen.

But those are 30fps, forza was definitely the best 60fps and less arcade than those 2. I remember the micro transaction bs of forza 5 and since haven’t paid much attention to it, but I probably will play 8 on PC.
 

Demon2blades

Member
Jun 14, 2017
493
527
395
United Kingdom
If your aiming for 4k 60fps your not getting raytracing in GT or the next Forza it'll be even worse come the end of the gen for these consoles the way games tend to get graphically more intensive , I say lose the 4k buzzword and go for 1440p 60 with raytracing or at least give us the option !.
 

BusierDonkey

Gold Member
Sep 21, 2018
4,006
10,980
665
So if the gameplay is 4K/60without RT, will the replays be stuck at 30fps to have RT enabled?

Maybe they should hold off on the RT altogether until they can release a non cross-gen game. Mind you that would probably be 2030.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
12,286
19,008
995
GT7 is at 4k/60 with 24 hour night -day cycle and realtime weather ,you think they can add ray-tracing on top,deluded or what.
J Jonah Jameson Laughing GIF
Yamauchi did note, however, that these dynamic environmental features will not be available on all tracks in the game.


 
  • Like
Reactions: reksveks

Hugare

Member
Sep 8, 2019
1,466
3,335
480
Polyphony is not the same that it used to be in terms of tech.

They havent made a trully great GT game in ages. GT Sport was good, but it took many updates to get there, tons of last gen cars, horrible environments (that are also present in GT 7) and etc.

Some japanese studios are stuck in the past, and I'm affraid that Polyphony is one of them

Aiming for 4k/60 is fucking laughable. Put a 1440p ray traced option, ffs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SlimySnake

Woodchipper

Member
May 8, 2014
1,186
716
615
Sweden


... the fun people had, listing every bug, issue on the forza reddit. The game was "special".
LMAO, and people think GT Sport sounds bad, when in fact it sounds great for the most part. Rumors has it that the sound engineer from Forza actually moved to PD for GT Sport. Well, seems like the sound engineer for Forza 7 is the dude that PD fired.
 
Last edited:

Type_Raver

Member
Oct 13, 2006
735
255
1,480
Any mention about wheel support?

I was bummed that the older wheel like the Logitech G27 werent supported in GT Sport,
 

Chankoras

Member
Apr 3, 2020
255
296
305
If I understand correctly is going to have over 400 cars
 

LMJ

Member
Feb 7, 2019
1,348
2,407
580
Sony, One of the strengths of your company as a whole is the collaboration your studios do with each other, sharing techniques etc

I know it was more common for Japanese developers to be more tight lipped with their engines etc in the past, but get the PD devs in touch with some Insomniac devs and have them chat.

Clearly Insomniac has people that know the work arounds with Ray tracing and maybe they can help
 
Last edited:

Bernkastel

Member
Mar 8, 2018
8,080
17,397
960
or the next Forza
With the new Forza Motorsport, ray tracing is coming to ForzaTech, you will see a dynamic world in 4K, 60fps, that is connected and dynamic – from surfaces of cars reflecting off each other, to brilliant red paint bouncing off intensely detailed track surfaces, and the interplay of light and shadow throughout the world.
 

Woodchipper

Member
May 8, 2014
1,186
716
615
Sweden
Sony, One of the strengths of your company as a whole is the collaboration your studios do with each other, sharing techniques etc

I know it was more common for Japanese developers to be more tight lipped with their engines etc in the past, but get the PD devs in touch with some Insomniac devs and have them chat.

Clearly Insomniac has people that know the work arounds with Ray tracing and maybe they can help
So, by that logic Insomniac should get in touch with some PD devs as well, to sort the dynamic time and weather change which is absent in Miles Morales.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FritzJ92

LMJ

Member
Feb 7, 2019
1,348
2,407
580
So, by that logic Insomniac should get in touch with some PD devs as well, to sort the dynamic time and weather change which is absent in Miles Morales.

Sure why not...

Did you SERIOUSLY see that as an attack on PD?

So serious
it's games folks lol

Serious Real Life GIF by Britannia on EPIX
 
Last edited:

MrFunSocks

Member
Jul 9, 2020
4,609
8,297
665
Idk man I just want to see full car to car reflections in a racer one day. Now our next hopes are on the Forza reboot... I don't care if the reflections are 720p or whatever concession they think off, this is open world on a last gen engine and it brought so much out visually

I feel like people don't understand how you can actually tell if something is raytraced or not on this forum.

In that screenshot nothing looks ray traced at all, because it's all simply reflections of what is on the screen. Nowhere can we see the back or side of spider man reflecting anywhere, or the back of the cars that are in front reflecting on the front of the rear cars. Those could be, and most likely are, screen space reflections. When you are seeing reflections of things that are NOT currently on screen, that's when you know it's ray traced.

edit: looking closer *maybe* the reflection of spidey on the right is slightly showing more than is visibile on the model? Could indicate ray tracing. This is a "bullshot" marketing release though, so it shouldn't be used anyway.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Woodchipper

BlackTron

Member
Jun 30, 2016
2,168
2,551
510
GT7 is at 4k/60 with 24 hour night -day cycle and realtime weather ,you think they can add ray-tracing on top,deluded or what.
J Jonah Jameson Laughing GIF

I doubt they could add RT on top of all that.

Maybe someone with the brains of an average Joe could step in and lower the res slider, problem solved.
 

supernova8

Member
Jun 2, 2020
2,453
3,494
430
Full translation of the tech-related bits of the interview (by me, you may have your own interpretation, also I skipped the Dual Sense stuff because IDGAF):

Q) It could be said one of GT7's biggest features is that it is optimized for PS5, but could you tell us more about what you're going for in terms of graphics?

The PS5 is a very easy console to develop for, which has allowed us to focus on expressing ourselves. Ray tracing, which is one of the graphical features available with PS5, is a technology that actually works best with cars. Cars are shiny and glossy. There's also other stuff like the glass, the paintwork, the radiator grille, and chrome. There aren't many products that have all of these things together. Other than window panes or a calm water surface, there aren't many shiny surfaces, which is why cars are so good for ray tracing.

Q) We're excited about GT7's ray tracing implementation, but one area fans may be curious about is where ray tracing can be used, given the (graphics processing) load it puts on the system.

So you can turn on ray tracing during replays and stage demos. You can also view your photos of cars (in garage mode) with ray tracing applied.

Q) So does that mean ray tracing won't be turned on during gameplay?

That's right. It's difficult to implement ray tracing in-game (while driving).

Q) You were very particular about HDR in GT Sport, are there any changes in that regard?

To be honest, we did pretty much everything we could (related to implementing HDR) in GT Sport (laughs), but we will be bringing HDR across to GT7.

Q) We'd also like to talk about game performance - how far have you gone in terms of the framerate and other areas?

First of all , we're targeting full 4K 60fps.

Q) What about 120fps?

We're very much aware of it, but there are no plans to support 120fps at launch.

Q) Is that something that could change in the future?

That's hard to say. It really depends on how far we can get in terms of development and optimization.

Q) What are your own thoughts? Do you want to push for 120fps and keep it as is?

It's a tough question. We can see the game running at 120fps at our studio, and it's certainly a different experience to what we've had up to now (i.e. 60 fps). The thing is, hardly anybody has a TV that supports 120fps. It was the same with GT Sport, where hardly anyone had a HDR-capable TV when we released the game, so I'd like to wait and see how things progress.

Q) So GT7 is also coming to PS4, which we think will please a lot of PS4 users. How close will it be to the PS5 version?

It's essentially the same game in terms of the feature set. The difference is in the quality. Graphics and sound are, of course, the best on PS5. Also, by far the biggest difference in terms of the "experience" is the loading times.

Q) How big of a difference is there in terms of loading times?

When you're playing on PS5, you won't feel like there is any loading at all.

Q) Wow, and on PS4 can we expect roughly the same loading times as we get now in GT Sport?

Yes, that's right. Loading times on PS4 are about 1 minute.

Q) And on PS5, it's essentially zero?

Technically it's about 1 second, but that's short enough that nobody will think "Oh, the game is loading".

Q) Are you planning to release a demo for GT7?

We currently have no plans for demo.

Q) Can you share any information regarding VR-compatibility?

We cannot yet talk about things VR-related.

My takeaways:

Ray tracing
Funny that he goes on about ray tracing for so long and then says "yeah It's not actually in-game though". It sounds like something that will most likely not come (even with an update).

120 fps
He specifically says 120fps won't be available "at launch" and yet didn't use that wording for ray tracing, so I think it means they probably will release a 120fps patch at some point. Plus, he mentioned that they do have it up and running at 120fps, unlike with ray tracing where it sounds like a no-go.

Also, given that he says hardly anyone has a 120fps-compatible TV (which is true), it may be that they are refining the 120fps mode (ie perhaps now they have it running internally at 1080p120, but they want to see if they can squeeze it to 1440p120 before releasing it as a patch later on).

VR
His wording in Japanese (specifically, まだ) makes it sounds like VR will come to GT7 (at some point) but that he simply cannot talk about it yet because Sony hasn't officially unveiled the next PSVR yet.

Just wanted to do an actual translation (not DeepL or Google translate) to make sure we don't miss anything.
 
Last edited:

Type_Raver

Member
Oct 13, 2006
735
255
1,480
Full translation of the tech-related bits of the interview (by me, you may have your own interpretation, also I skipped the Dual Sense stuff because IDGAF):



My takeaways:

Ray tracing
Funny that he goes on about ray tracing for so long and then says "yeah It's not actually in-game though". It sounds like something that will most likely not come (even with an update).

120 fps
He specifically says 120fps won't be available "at launch" and yet didn't use that wording for ray tracing, so I think it means they probably will release a 120fps patch at some point. Plus, he mentioned that they do have it up and running at 120fps, unlike with ray tracing where it sounds like a no-go.

Also, given that he says hardly anyone has a 120fps-compatible TV (which is true), it may be that they are refining the 120fps mode (ie perhaps now they have it running internally at 1080p120, but they want to see if they can squeeze it to 1440p120 before releasing it as a patch later on).

VR
His wording in Japanese (specifically, まだ) makes it sounds like VR will come to GT7 (at some point) but that he simply cannot talk about it yet because Sony hasn't officially unveiled the next PSVR yet.

Just wanted to do an actual translation (not DeepL or Google translate) to make sure we don't miss anything.
Anything about Wheel support?
 

supernova8

Member
Jun 2, 2020
2,453
3,494
430
Anything about Wheel support?
He said they're working with Fanatec this time to make a wheel controller. Added that Fanatec has "direct-drive motors" that make it extremely responsive, and they're working together with Fanatec to tune that side of things. The interviewer asked about a release date/schedule for such wheel but Yamauchi seemed to ignore that part of the question.

Didn't mention anything about other wheels but hopefully other PS5-compatible wheels will just work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Type_Raver
Mar 13, 2017
2,343
3,379
620
i cant pretend like i care when I turn ray tracing off in Rachet n Clank to increase resolution and turn it off on CyperPunk PC to improve performance

reflective puddles dont make or break a game for me but to each their own
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hunnybun

Inviusx

Member
Jan 4, 2016
2,199
2,634
540
When you're driving, you won't see ray traced reflections because you'll be driving. When you switch to photomode or watch back your replay, you'll be seeing ray tracing and be able to appreciate it because you're not driving.

So basically ray tracing will be enabled in the modes where you can best appreciate it.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: octiny and Banjo64

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,358
1,655
520
Remember when some people were saying Forza didn't look next-gen because RT was only for the Forza Vista mode?

'Ya kids can't talk so soon xD. Anyway, this is a non-issue; you don't need RT to look "next-gen", games like Demon's Souls Remake and Flight Simulator prove this.

However, my bigger concern is how GT7, at least from what they showed recently, looks comparatively unimpressive next to Forza Horizon 5, and that's considering the latter's an open-world racer on top of it. Hopefully the graphics get better closer to launch.
That's because of the art direction. Forza has so much more going on than just being a racing simulator.
 

supernova8

Member
Jun 2, 2020
2,453
3,494
430
When you're driving, you won't see ray traced reflections because you'll be driving. When you switch to photomode or watch back your replay, you'll be seeing ray tracing and be able to appreciate it because you're not driving.

So basically ray tracing will be enabled in the modes where you can best appreciate it.

I'm not tech-savvy enough to know what I'm talking about but I suppose the question is whether the issue is PS5 not having enough "RT cores" (a-la Ampere and up GPUs) or whether the on-board GPU is more general purpose, and therefore resources could be diverted to doing ray tracing (albeit while running the overall game at a lower resolution and/or framerate).

I would definitely be up for a 1080p30 ray-tracing enabled mode, but I doubt we'll get one.
 

Type_Raver

Member
Oct 13, 2006
735
255
1,480
He said they're working with Fanatec this time to make a wheel controller. Added that Fanatec has "direct-drive motors" that make it extremely responsive, and they're working together with Fanatec to tune that side of things. The interviewer asked about a release date/schedule for such wheel but Yamauchi seemed to ignore that part of the question.

Didn't mention anything about other wheels but hopefully other PS5-compatible wheels will just work.
Thanks for the reply.

Im quietly hoping i wont have to upgrade my Logitech G27!

BTW, will time trials and online racing be cross-compatible between PS4-5? No unwanted advantage/disadvantage either way?
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
8,232
12,884
620
I wonder if it will still be the 1080cb resolution reflections of the first demo as well...