Support NeoGAF

[jim-jam bongs]

People always seem to forget these things between generational changes, but in reality nearly any game which relies heavily on visual impact will age rapidly. Games with depth of mechanics and narrative will continue to stand the test of time, just as the always have. I don't like Zelda (at all) but I can say with a fair amount of confidence that it's not the visuals of Ocarina of Time which have given it the longevity it has. Planescape and Baldur's Gate 2 aren't spoken of in reverent whispers because they had pretty sprites.

There are obvious exceptions; I'm playing The Thousand Year Door in Dolphin at the moment, and visually it's still a stunning game, but even in that case if the underlying mechanics and gameplay weren't so solid I'd tire of them almost immediately.

 

[Hatten]

Every Wii game

In the age of HD, SD+jaggies=death

 

[barugon]

When I look back on some of the older games that I remeber fondly:

-System Shock II
-Planescape Torment
-Grim Fandango
-Deus Ex

The thing that stands out is they all had memorable settings/characters. I think that's the key. Which is why I think games like the Portal series and Bioshock will hold up just fine while things like Gears of War or COD won't age quite as well.

I think you're half right, but there's a fine line between nostalgia value and a game standing the test of time, specifically regarding Grim Fandango. While I adore GF, I would say it's already very aged and harder to play for it. The graphics are rough and the controls are awful, making it fairly unplayable to anyone without any previous attachment to it.

I would say The Curse of Monkey Island (MI3) might be a better example- the graphics are simple and clean but still beautiful, the controls are also simple and easy, the characters and story are incredible- it's an easy game for anyone with a penchant for adventure games to play today (assuming they can get it running on modern equipment).

In short, I'm saying dated graphics can easily render an otherwise incredible game unplayable, and while it may be possible for a great game to overcome outdated graphics, it's damn hard. So when so many games today start pushing boundaries for graphics, adding more depth and detail, I think they'll age more for it. Games like Portal might stick around, but I think you and others are right about CoD, Gears, and Uncharted.

 

[revolverjgw]

I disagree. Gears cover and combat feel more natural and fun to play. I can't say the same about Uncharted, where the combat is the worst part of the series. Almost seems like an after thought

I feel like a moveable turret in Gears, at least in Uncharted I can move and jump around to escape/get better vantage points. And there's no need to go into a barely controllable "roadie run" to move quickly, your character is agile enough to move around more freely at all times. The maps are also designed with vertical movement in mind, not just having your feet cemented to the floor. "More natural" is the last thing I'd say Gears is compared to Uncharted.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

All of you guys arguing about whether Gears or Uncharted will stand the test of time better crack me up. Some day someone will dig your posts out for a thread about "lulzy forum posts of old".

Every Wii game

In the age of HD, SD+jaggies=death

Emulation will breathe new life into Wii games for years to come. The same can't be said for 360 and PS3 games, sadly.

 

[Threi]

Who here think SMB on NES is a good game today?

No, you can't use the following:

"its a classic"
"it gave birth to the modern video games"
"gameplay is superb" (it might be, but it has been redefined and enchaned past 30 years).

*flameshield on*

Never liked smb that much and thought it was one of the weaker mario platformers, even if what it was doing was mindblowing at the time.

3, World, and Yoshi's Island are very much good and very playable games today.

 

[StuBurns]

Bad joke...

It's not a joke. The 'classic' status is tied to how accessible the software will be in the future, and WiiSports won't be very accessible.

 

[Mr_eX]

Skyrim

 

[Luthos]

RDR won't age as bad until we get another awesome open western game. And even then, I'm not that sure.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

It's not a joke. The 'classic' status is tied to how accessible the software will be in the future, and WiiSports won't be very accessible.

Why is that?

 

[Satchel]

It's not a joke. The 'classic' status is tied to how accessible the software will be in the future, and WiiSports won't be very accessible.

Really? What makes you say that? Honest question. I'm referring to Wii Sports.

You're right on the other part. Classic status imo links to how well the game plays, and how accessible it is (combined with other factors of course). Which is why you thinking Wii Sports won't be is puzzling.

 

[finley83]

Playing Skyrim earlier I realised that I've become so accustomed to long loading times that I barely get too bored or irritated by them any more. So many things about that game are amazing and yet I have a feeling in years to come, when streaming technology is way better than it is now, long loading times are really going to put me off playing it a lot of current-gen games again.

 

[Derrick01]

Skyrim

That's already aging really badly for true RPG fans. I've already gotten to the point where I'm close to saying Oblivion was...well maybe not better in a pure sense of the word, but certainly more fun to play. Mostly due to the quality of the quests and faction quests, which Skyrim really really lacks. They made it so you get a billion more miscellaneous quests in Skyrim, but they're all extremely basic MMO style quests.

 

[Yoona]

Every game that requires motion controls

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Who here think SMB on NES is a good game today?

No, you can't use the following:

"its a classic"
"it gave birth to the modern video games"
"gameplay is superb" (it might be, but it has been redefined and enchaned past 30 years).

*flameshield on*

I spent like a week last summer trying to beat it without warps (AKA all levels), as I had never done that before. Yes, its still a good game.

Also Anth0ny I already debated with you about SM64, so we'll leave it at that.

I would also concur with those listing Skyward Sword. It took me about a full week of playing it to get used to the last-gen visuals, especially after coming off Skyrim.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Really? What makes you say that? Honest question. I'm referring to Wii Sports.

You're right on the other part. Classic status imo links to how well the game plays, and how accessible it is (combined with other factors of course). Which is why you thinking Wii Sports won't be is puzzling.

How accessible the software is, not the gameplay. He means that because it requires a Wii-mote and dongle, things which can't be easily translated to a generic controller, the ability to play the game going forward is diminished, and hence it's less accessible. I haven't been following the Wii-U so I don't know if that would be able to play the original Wii Sports straight out of the box, but the point is that anything which requires an unusual controller will be much harder to play once the manufacturer EOLs the console.

 

[Satchel]

How accessible the software is, not the gameplay. He means that because it requires a Wii-mote and dongle, things which can't be easily translated to a generic controller, the ability to play the game going forward is diminished, and hence it's less accessible. I haven't been following the Wii-U so I don't know if that would be able to play the original Wii Sports straight out of the box, but the point is that anything which requires an unusual controller will be much harder to play once the manufacturer EOLs the console.

But isn't that a bit limiting?

Sooooooo, Soulcalibur on Dreamcast isn't classic, or is classic by that definition?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

But isn't that a bit limiting?

Sooooooo, Soulcalibur on Dreamcast isn't classic, or is classic by that definition?

Well that depends, would you say that the Dreamcast controller was "unusual" in any way?

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Who here think SMB on NES is a good game today?

No, you can't use the following:

"its a classic"
"it gave birth to the modern video games"
"gameplay is superb" (it might be, but it has been redefined and enchaned past 30 years).

*flameshield on*

I think it's still one of the best games ever made. It's 'classic' status has nothing to do with it.

 

[Satchel]

Well that depends, would you say that the Dreamcast controller was "unusual" in any way?

But what does the controller have to do with a games status as a 'classic' being discussed?

I'm not saying Wii Sports will or won't be a classic, I'm talking about why won't the game be accessible because of it's controller? Isn't that the case for all discontinued consoles?

It just seems like a silly argument, unless I'm missing a key component here.

So no Wii games that utilise the Wii remote can be considered classics?

 

[WillyFive]

Games with screen tearing, pop-up textures, and pixelated shadows will definitely age the worst. It's those graphical glitches that simply stand out, you can't get used to them just like you can with low-poly models and low-res sprites.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

But what does the controller have to do with a games status as a 'classic' being discussed?

The key component which you're missing is that the ability to still play the game is required in order to assess how well or poorly it has aged. Stu is simply drawing a parallel between the term "classic" and the idea of a game aging well.

 

[Fantasy Final]

Every games who makes the game too good looking by making the frame rate shitty. Gears of War 1 is almost bad right now because of that. Every game with a 60FPS (or a constant 30FPS) thought the entire game will age well.

 

[Satchel]

The key component which you're missing is that the ability to still play the game is required in order to assess how well or poorly it has aged. Stu is simply drawing a parallel between the term "classic" and the idea of a game aging well.

That doesn't seem sound though.

The only way J6P would be able to play an old game, is to have that console (in most cases), so the assumption is, that you'd have a Wii or Wii U to play a Wii game considered a classic, or to judge whether you think it's a classic.

Surely Mario Galaxy is considered a classic.

But then, if we're arguing a distinction between classic and 'aging well', well you've got me there.

I, for the sake of simplicity, consider them one and the same. A game can't really be considered a true classic if it hasn't aged well. At least for me.

 

[Medalion]

Every game this generation

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Uncharted series, I'd say. Very, very pretty, but the gameplay, controls and super-restrictive set-pieces probably won't hold up over time.

Come to think of it, Skyward Sword will age bloody terribly when/if motion controls are done properly.

People will go back to it and wonder,'why didn't they just put this shit on a regular controller?!'

 

[jim-jam bongs]

That doesn't seem sound though.

The only way J6P would be able to play an old game, is to have that console (in most cases), so the assumption is, that you'd have a Wii or Wii U to play a Wii game considered a classic, or to judge whether you think it's a classic.

Surely Mario Galaxy is considered a classic.

But then, if we're arguing a distinction between classic and 'aging well', well you've got me there.

I, for the sake of simplicity, consider them one and the same. A game can't really be considered a true classic if it hasn't aged well. At least for me.

That's not the case at all, emulation is a substantially better way to play old games these days unless you're a super-purist, and even in that case the software is always improving. You're also discounting the possibility of ports to stronger hardware.

Look at it like this. In the future it would be possible to release a port of Galaxy on subsequent Nintendo hardware which simply removed the pointer controls for collecting stars, and the game would remain fundamentally unchanged. I'm pretty sure you can actually play both Galaxy games with a GC controller. So you don't need to have the original hardware in that scenario, and you can still assess how well the game holds up if it's a straight port.

Wii Sports is a different thing entirely. The game was designed to showcase the potential of the Wii-mote and dongle as an input method, so playing it using anything other than the original controller is not possible.

Lastly there are two different things happening in this thread; some people are speaking to their personal preferences as far as graphical fidelity, and others are speaking more generally. I think that's the main source of contention regarding the specific issue we're discussing here, because I agree that a game can still be a personal classic while not necessarily being recognised or canonised as a classic.

 

[Piercedveil]

I'm going to be general and say open world games. Oblivion, Skyrim, and GTA come to mind.

 

[crossfaded]

Honestly, to me, the Uncharted series are like movies. They are good the first time, but I probably wouldn't watch them again. I still play the multiplayer every now and then...

Spoiler

but even then

 

[Satchel]

That's not the case at all, emulation is a substantially better way to play old games these days unless you're a super-purist, and even in that case the software is always improving. You're also discounting the possibility of ports to stronger hardware.

Look at it like this. In the future it would be possible to release a port of Galaxy on subsequent Nintendo hardware which simply removed the pointer controls for collecting stars, and the game would remain fundamentally unchanged. I'm pretty sure you can actually play both Galaxy games with a GC controller. So you don't need to have the original hardware in that scenario, and you can still assess how well the game holds up if it's a straight port.

Wii Sports is a different thing entirely. The game was designed to showcase the potential of the Wii-mote and dongle as an input method, so playing it using anything other than the original controller is not possible.

Lastly there are two different things happening in this thread; some people are speaking to their personal preferences as far as graphical fidelity, and others are speaking more generally. I think that's the main source of contention regarding the specific issue we're discussing here, because I agree that a game can still be a personal classic while not necessarily being recognised or canonised as a classic.

No, you don't have to explain all that, I'm aware that's what you and StuBurns were referring to, but I still don't see how that stops a classic game being considered a classic.

I would have thought that the OPs question was simply referring to games that age badly.

Then I'm not sure at which point we started discussing the difference between a classic and aging well. Again, as I said ealirer, I kind of consider them one and the same.

So when someone asks, will Mario Galaxy age well? Then I assume, that in 10-15 years time, I'm playing Mario Gaalxy on a Wii console with a Wii remote, and yes, it has aged well.

 

[Parch]

I expect improvement with motion controls. Significant improvement in fact. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if every motion control game from this generation ages poorly because the control scheme has been trumped by significantly improved accuracy and playability.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Infamous 1 and 2. They both look pretty poor by today's standards and won't age well at all, especially the shooting mechanics.

uh infamous 2 is one of the best looking games this gen.

 

[GoofsterStud]

God Of War 3:

Graphics are already fussy and washed out even compared to Final Fantasy XII on a 65 plasma. Higher resolutions will make it look worse. When i was on a small cheap TV it looked fine, the better the TV the more noticeable the odd blurryness of the game becomes. No other games has this problem to such an extreme.

Game play will age horribly. Seriously hack and slash never ages will... The quick even system was overused in Shenmnue... ETC

We will be sitting there thinking to ourselves, why was this a good game?

 

[Frankenstrat]

Vanilla Oblivion and Skyrim. Although vanilla Oblivion has already aged terribly. You know what, let's just go with any and all vanilla Gamebryo games. Because seriously.

 

[TheCongressman1]

I'm going to be general and say open world games.

Why would that be? Being open world has nothing to do with the test of time. I would say Skyrim will age badly, but not because it's open world.

Come to think of it, Skyward Sword will age bloody terribly when/if motion controls are done properly.

People will go back to it and wonder,'why didn't they just put this shit on a regular controller?!'

The controls are not perfect, but they aren't as awful as some make it out to be. I'd say it was definitely a good time as any to try the motion+ tech out because it works well as it is, but it was the execution in other areas that brought the gameplay down. The controls were refreshing at first, but then they just became mundane. Not because of the nature of combat, but because of the lack of variety. The controls set up a perfect opportunity for really creative or challenging combat, but instead you are presented with wave after wave of the same enemy. What is going to make this game age badly is lack of substance rather than the control scheme.

 

[StuBurns]

Really? What makes you say that? Honest question. I'm referring to Wii Sports.

You're right on the other part. Classic status imo links to how well the game plays, and how accessible it is (combined with other factors of course). Which is why you thinking Wii Sports won't be is puzzling.

I meant accessible in the most literal sense, how easy it is to physically play. WiiSports requires a WiiMote, it's a very specific interface that is already not coming as standard with the next Nintendo system. In ten years time, unless you physically have a Wii set up by your TV at all times (most people will not), I don't believe you'll really be able to play WiiSports, in which case, I don't think it'll have that lasting place in gaming in the way SMBs did. That's not a slight on WiiSports, (although I do think it's crap), just the feasibility of it being playable in the future.

EDIT: I didn't read further up, jim-jam explained it much better.

 

[CrytothePrinceofPeace]

Metroid Other M

only it aged badly by a month since its release.

Beat me to it.

 

[Frankenstrat]

I'm going to be general and say open world games. Oblivion, Skyrim, and GTA come to mind.

Just Cause 2 will remain awesome for quite some time though.