SeeNoWeevil
Member
Has the 350Z been seen in any of the promo material?
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GT Sport E3 Build - Massive Upgrade
- Thread starter Loudninja
- Start date
thelastword
Banned
The improved detail in Willow Springs is spectacular, looks a clear gen ahead, notwithstanding it's at full HD compared to GT6's 1440x1080p. All they have to do is to work on that IQ and nail the framerate.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
Besides sound, I just hope they have a decent amount of production cars in the game.
sems4arsenal
Member
The weird thing is GT5's procedural system was scraped very very late, it was there in the playable demos in wallmart, etc.
It still looked weird since they didn't model the engine, etc so there was a weird looking void IIRC. there is a video with a white 458 if someone can find it.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
You are comparing an unfinished (at the time) released game to an unfinished game that is still 5 months away. Inconsistent graphics is a giving in unreleased games, so is the lack of some features which are promised. Do not compare GTS to GT5 because they are not in anyway alike.
GTS is a barebones GT game that is trying to address many of the issues of previous GT games. Now it is addressing some of those issues either partially or fully but much of what we have seen is encouraging. The Sounds are vastly improved, if they get the notes to pop and the gears to shift more naturally the game would sound rather good.
We finally for the first time have a livery editor in the game, dedicated servers (for one game mode unfortunately) is coming, while we have not seen any damage we know that GT5 had incredible procedural damage that was removed in the retail version, so PD can do damage if they stop fucking around.
The biggest issue that i think they wont accurately address are those visual inconsistencies, AA seems to be alien to PD, dithering has always been an issue since last gen and ofcourse frame rate and tearing has plagued the series since 5, i hope they have sorted that out, cause the tearing could really distract from the experience.
Gouda Jouji
Member
I think it was actually removed because of performance concerns. It had potential though.
http://www.virtualr.net/gran-turismo-5-new-damage-previews
pseudocaesar
Member
I know its probably been answered already, but is this game online multiplayer races only?
AstroNut325
Member
No. It has single player content. The SP content is focused on getting you to become a better driver and a better racer. Ultimately, the goal is to prep you for online races and even get a FIA license.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
That and the fact people kept moaning about how it looked like the car was melting, that really affected the decision to remove it.
pseudocaesar
Member
OK, do we have a rough idea how substantial the offline side is? How exactly does it compare to previous GT games?
endlessflood
Member
It's basically just the licences and driving missions from the previous games. It's not a GT SP mode in the traditional sense, it's just meant to get you up to speed for the online racing.
Kenshin001
Member
I'm comparing the conversations that were happening prior to the release of GT5 on the PlayStation boards. Believe me I was there and the GT fans kept saying wait until the game releases. Yes, inconsistent graphics are par for the course though I was disappointed how bad some of the tracks looked when I got GT5 so it's natural to be a little alarmed.
Bumper cars, poor engine sounds, annoying tire squeals and damage should not even be part of the conversation anymore though.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Bumper cars is directly linked to the availability of damage and we already know that its in, we just have to see how good it is.
The engine sound in GTS is by no means "poor", unfortunately its become sort of a cool meme to claim that GT sounds like a vaccum cleaner when anyone who actually cares to listen would immediately tell you that it sounds good. Now there is room for improvement, things to make the engine note more natural, what we are hoping is that PD is paying attention and would implement those changes.
There is zero excuse for the tire squeal, it needs to fucking go. Overall the improvements they have been made in such a short time is giving me hope that this might be a better experience than any previous GT game, we will have to see though.
endlessflood
Member
I don't mind the tyre squealing, but the in-car audio sounds are poor, by far the worst in the entire genre. Unfortunately it's a massive part of the experience.
Yeah, audio in GT is pretty much indefensible. I keep getting told there have been improvements but can't really detect much change so far. It still sounds synthesised, weak and insipid to me. I really can't understand how it continues to be so, so poor when other devs have been making such giant strides over the past decade or so.
I just can't believe they passed on Anthony Monteil to do the audio for them.
What were they thinking!!!
It's like hiring a water boy to teach your son football instead of a proper coach...
Anyway, as it stands, the only thing that can maybe enhance the experience short of a whole audio overhaul is to at least incorporate a better driveline/trans/shifting system.
The 'on-off' thing they have in place and have had since forever is simply amateurish at best...
I just want 10 minutes with Kaz so I can pick his brain. I need to know what's going on in there..
What were they thinking!!!
It's like hiring a water boy to teach your son football instead of a proper coach...
Anyway, as it stands, the only thing that can maybe enhance the experience short of a whole audio overhaul is to at least incorporate a better driveline/trans/shifting system.
The 'on-off' thing they have in place and have had since forever is simply amateurish at best...
I just want 10 minutes with Kaz so I can pick his brain. I need to know what's going on in there..
Seriously though, maybe Kaz is trying to simulate the weak muffled audio you get with earplugs and a racing helmet.
Actually... the man's a genius!
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Reprojection, well asynchronous time warp, is on even at 120 Hz by default though.
The offline consists of this apparently:
Campaign Mode:
Used to be called GT Mode.
This mode is split into 4 different sections ...
Beginners School
Circuit Experience
Mission Challenge
Racing Etiquette
Each section is self-explanatory and most of us would be familiar with them.
The newest one though, 'Racing Etiquette', has been introduced due to GT Sport now holding official online championships.
These 4 sections combined make a total of 117 events in Campaign Mode.
And then also Arcade mode including:
Single Race
Time Trial
Drift Trial
2P Split Screen
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Cacophony Digital, right?
Apex
Member
Precisely there was an update just for the people who moaned about the cockpit sounds:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/00_4571549.html?t=gt6update
- A new [Onboard Mic Position] setting has been added to the [Sound Volume] category of the [Sound] page within the [Options] screen in the [MENU] (accessible by pressing the START button). The same setting has also been added to the [Quick Options] menu during a race, accessible by pressing the START button.
That means that the external cam sound can be positioned to play in cockpit view, more akin to the dubbing in hollywood movies and what other games like to do.
The offline consists of this apparently:
Campaign Mode:
Used to be called GT Mode.
This mode is split into 4 different sections ...
Beginners School
Circuit Experience
Mission Challenge
Racing Etiquette
Each section is self-explanatory and most of us would be familiar with them.
The newest one though, 'Racing Etiquette', has been introduced due to GT Sport now holding official online championships.
These 4 sections combined make a total of 117 events in Campaign Mode.
And then also Arcade mode including:
Single Race
Time Trial
Drift Trial
2P Split Screen
That seems to be a healthy amount of single player content for a game made more for the online aspect. Makes me more optimistic.
endlessflood
Member
That's like trying to fix a decapitated body with a bandaid.
We all know what the cockpit of these cars are supposed to sound like, there's more in-cockpit videos of them these days than you can poke a stick at. Other games are able to deliver it beautifully and realistically, and plenty of videos have been posted proving that. GT should be one of those games, but it isn't, and given that the series seems to fall further behind the competition with each iteration, some of us worry that it never will be.
Apex
Member
Considering that many complainers and reviewers don't care about realism but just an engine sounding loud and powerfull that's not a bad patch for that group, in fact in the past some of them wished that could be allowed in the game given the differences. That's because that option is now there.
There are very few games delivering realistic cockpit sounds, specially in road cars, most of them take the hollywood route. Today, almost all road and sport cars are very well insulated from the exterior and are not noisy. Inside the car the wind sound takes away most of the engine notes, except at low speeds. What games does that to a realistic extent? Videos are not very good examples as often the cheap cameras used can't record the very low frequencies (wind) that does mute the rest of the engine notes. Also most games use a very compressed dynamic range so even a boring engine can sound loud and exciting, but that's another story...
TylerDurden4321
Member
yes, PD will deliver us from the unrealistic sound of real life television broadcasting onboard microphones and all this amateurish youtube sound posing that all these other sims fall for and finally give us real hardcore sim sound. It will be the dark souls of sound!
AstroNut325
Member
This is what I've been wondering lately. The gauge of sound accuracy are YouTube videos.
Having been on a track with my 636, I recall mostly nearing the wind noise like you mentioned. And the load engine/exhaust sounds were mostly from other motorcycles on the track in front of me at closer distance.
I've never been in a race car on a track so I can't really say much about that.
Edit:
Have any pro or amateur racers commented about sounds in AC, Forza, PCars?
Totally agree. I have to wonder if the people complaining ever pay attention to how the inside of their own car sounds.
This reminds me of when people were talking about how "great" the cockpit sounds were in Need for Speed Shift. Why? Because it sounds like the floor and firewall is made of thin sheet metal?
My main complain with the sounds in GT are they sometimes sound a little too "digital" and lack subtle variances you get in real life.
I wonder if the difference in feel from the one demo to the next was just down to the different cars. Even in GT6 some cars feel really great while a bunch feel really floaty. It's not consistent.
TheAdmiester
Member
I've been in average cars and heard plenty of supercars in real life. The interior sounds on GT are basically just the external sounds with a filter, which doesn't help when the external sounds are already the worst in the industry.
In the area I live in there's frequently a Ford Focus RS that accelerates hard. I can hear that car from almost a town away and that's just a 5 cylinder engine with the stock exhaust. I've had a V10 Audi R8 pass by that almost rattled my bones just from the sound it made accelerating. I've also heard a Ford truck (F150 or F350 or something) that I can hear from a mile away for its loud gravelly V8 sound. Cars can be very loud from the outside and GT doesn't even get that. The interior sounds are obviously going to be bad too when it's basically just crappy exterior sounds + a crappy filter. Even a tiny city car with a 3cyl engine makes more noise inside than even an aggressive race car in GT. There is not one good aspect about its sounds, seriously. The audio simulation is bad and so are the samples being fed into it.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
dayum. i was laughing my butt off at the reveal. Now I'm properly excited again.
They really hurt themselves with that reveal
They really hurt themselves with that reveal
TylerDurden4321
Member
Imagine buying a brand new corvette at list price, you find a nice straight and just floor the gas pedal. Your bones and guts scream "this is awsoooome!!" from the g-force ..and then you realize it sounds like Gran Turismo.
Real life sport exhausts are designed as musical instruments (like developing a bugle) to make them sound amazing. Some even have flaps so they can sound like boring silent cars(they also have less power that way so you won't find that in race cars). The few expensive sport cars which just can't be made sound awesome get some artificial sound mixing from the internal speakers like the BMW i8.
I'd return that corvette on the spot
Real life sport exhausts are designed as musical instruments (like developing a bugle) to make them sound amazing. Some even have flaps so they can sound like boring silent cars(they also have less power that way so you won't find that in race cars). The few expensive sport cars which just can't be made sound awesome get some artificial sound mixing from the internal speakers like the BMW i8.
AstroNut325
Member
Can you share your personal experience driving a Corvette on a long straight with WOT? Which game gets closest to your real life experience? I'm not defending GT on this. I'm curious.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I haven't driven one in real life, but I worked at Mercedes for 3 years and sat next to the small test track sometimes during lunch break, an SL 600 or whatever AMG 63 sounds like you know from Top Gear on tv. When people think that what they hear in GT sounds real, sounds just like their own car sounds, they think of 1.6 liter 4-cylinder with a giant exhaust muffler and sound proofed interior that they ever drive at maybe 4,000rpm.
About best sound in racing games in not race cars, just sport cars, Assetto Corsa (after version 1.5 and edit: I'm judging from cockpit and note that some cars sound far better than others, if you cherry pick, this game can sound bad) is probably the closest to reality. Project CARS and Forza don't sound bad but too many generic copy-paste elements. RaceRoom is the best, but only features race cars. iRacing I only know from youtube and it's close to reality but doesn't capture the excitement in the few street legal cars they have. I'd probably even prefer Real Racing 3 (which is a bloody mobile game) over the sound in GT6 and maybe even over GTS, but I'll withhold judgement until I get a handson.
Edit 2: Automibilista is great too, up there with AC and pCARS, maybe even better, but I think only the Camaro from that game is street legal.
Great comparison shots. Quite the jump from the last game.Comparison between the GT6 and GTS versions of the Ring and Willow Springs (credit to emula from GTplanet)
Jamesways
Member
I was not prepared for the sounds and feeling the first time I went to an American LeMans race weekend. Standing right next to pit lane as the cars exit, the Corvette GT1s made your eardrums want to burst. It legitimately hurt when they punched it. And when the Ferraris went by you could feel in your chest and heart. It was incredible. The Panoz had a great sound too.
I was really shocked at the Audis LMPs when they started using the new tech. They were so quiet it was just a small whistle going by and you could hear the sound of the tires more you could the engine.
I would love to get sounds like that in a game.
I was really shocked at the Audis LMPs when they started using the new tech. They were so quiet it was just a small whistle going by and you could hear the sound of the tires more you could the engine.
I would love to get sounds like that in a game.
Apex
Member
You only need to jump between the different views on a nascar car to understand that the cockpit sounds can't be just a "filter". These are some great examples of how complex can be the sound in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh1s3mrxywQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IMw-BbLfZY
This is what many games does:
https://youtu.be/jFroPYlmODk?t=99
This is what a real sealed cockpit should sound:
https://youtu.be/jcdM6yi47T0?t=4
The first vid has been recorded with an external mic (outside the car). The second with an internal mic capable of recording low frequencies without clipping (better played throught a sound system equiped with a subwoofer).
Take your sound realism with a pinch of salt, no matter how realistic do you think it is at the end of the day is still very unrealistic, altough is what the average player and even hardcores demands at the cockpit.
There's another sound inconsistency with the racing cars. The player does not hear the sounds as a race driver, the sound throught the helmet or earbuds is not simulated, but that's again another story...
You don't really need to be a professional driver to realise that GT's sounds are just absolute garbage. The sounds are digital and lack so many details, deepness, and mechanical feel... That some people still try to defend them... honestly: i don't get it.
There are millions of videos showing how cars sound: from inside the cockpit or from anywhere...
You can also jump in your own car and push the engine just a little to see that, already, your car sounds more powerful than a Veyron in GT.
You can listen to the sounds of powerful cars when you cross one... some of them are so "mechanical", unstable, that you could think they are not working properly...
You can also see that GT has no "chassis" sounds (like: no mechanical sounds from the car itself, just tyres and engine... no suspension compression, body touching ground, rocks flying under the car... nothing)... As a race driver; Kaz knows all that...but does not even try to replicate these...
But I know all i say doesn't matter as I am not a race driver... but I was happy enough to drive a Ferrari F430 on a track, with Audi R10, Porsche, Lamborghini Gallardo, etc... They sound like beasts... absolutly monsters. They are frightening. Much more than any game I ever experienced.
I am the -mostly-happy owner of a E55 AMG... the sound is terrifying. I mean: so frighning that it makes you think twice before pressing the gas.
I was at Le Mans last week for the 24h race... the sounds are unbelievable: if anything, youtube videos lose sounds deepness and complexity... they are much more impressive IRL. And some of these cars like the Vette make a sound where you could amost count the cylinders by hear. It's sublime, loud, very mechanical, alive and loud.
So, GT sounds are the worst of any AAA car game...by far. And even the best ones are still not ferocious enough compared to reality.
(of course some cars have a more civilised feel and sound... like the M5 for instance... but most of them are pretty ferocious... that's even a huge selling point)
Come on man...we all love the GT franchise but this is not even debattable.
serversurfer
Member
That looks pretty sweet.
Completing this should be required for entry in sanctioned events, and we should be able to filter for it in non-sanctioned events.
endlessflood
Member
That microphone is terrible, towards the end his phone rings and even the ringtone is distorted.
Here's a cockpit video from a couple of weeks ago with audio from both an M235i and M6 GT3 race car, recorded with proper equipment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1KBo8_rag#t=8m41s
If the timecode doesn't work for you then skip to 8:41 to cut to the chase.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Makes sense, let's hope it works.
AstroNut325
Member
This is good feedback. I'll definitely try AC and maybe I'll pickup PCars as well when it's on sale again.
Do you have a sound system that is capable of delivering that level of audio fidelity? Especially in terms of dynamics and bass response? You would need these kinds of speakers in your gaming room:
Or these:
