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GTA 5: Rapper Wants Game Recalled Over Track Inclusion

Tevious said:
So? Except for Franklin, rap / hip hop music doesn't suit the other characters in the game. It made sense in San Andreas, but even that game had a good selection of rock music.
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If GTA games only had music that "suited" the main characters, there'd be quite a poor selection of songs.
 
Daz had his fingers in everything back then. If they wanted a classic west coast station no way he wasn't getting paid one way or another. 4K is a pittance
 
Vodh said:
There are two entirely separate issues that are somehow getting mixed up and argued simultaneously and as one in this thread.

One is the alleged theft of the songs. If he was the only guy legally in power to give R* the go ahead and he refused, but R* released the songs anyway, then someone obviously fucked up, and quite badly too. I don't care about him one bit, never even heard of him, but he's been robbed and deserves every penny of the juicy settlement coming his way, along with some form of public apology to boot.

IF it wasn't even a fuck-up, but instead just plain hubris and insult by knowingly including the songs (which I find really hard to believe) then all of the above, but kicked up a notch.

If he just didn't get his facts straight and the songs were legally acquired, which in my opinion would be the most likely scenario (note: most likely doesn't mean it definitely happened in my opinion, obviously), then he's in trouble and I have absolutely no sympathy for him.

The other issue is how much the songs were worth to Rockstar and whether he received a fair or an insulting offer. I'd assume the royalties stream for those songs has pretty much dried up already. I've read the topic and nobody so far seems to have any idea about what's considered a normal rate for this kind of thing in the industry so it's a war between camp "That's a fucking insult, dude was a legend!" and camp "Never heard of him and the times when I could have heard of him have long since passed, the songs aren't worth $10". I'd be very interested to learn how much licensed music costs and what influences the prices to what degree. Until I know more I wouldn't make a judgement.
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It doesn't matter how much they were worth to Rockstar. It only matters how much he wanted for them.
 
Prince Vultan said:
I wasn't actually serious, I'm actually a fan of rap music believe it or not. I thought that might have been taken as more of a joke than it was, but I guess I should know better in threads where tensions are running a little high.

Sorry :(



:(
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As someone else mentioned, Poe's law in full effect!
 
Tevious said:
So? Except for Franklin, rap / hip hop music doesn't suit the other characters in the game. It made sense in San Andreas, but even that game had a good selection of rock music.
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Because no white people listen to hip hop, and all black people listen to nothing but hip hop, amirite? Maybe you should leave the thread before stupid generalizations turn into full blown racism.
 
To all those toeing the "HE SHOULD BE THANKFUL" line:

These are Daz's allegations:

Rockstar asks him to use his music.
He says their offer is too low, so they can't use it.
Rockstar uses it anyway.

NOW - This is not a situation in which "thanks" are warranted, because once he said "No," they are essentially using his shit without permission. They are stealing it. He has refused his work for their purposes, and they have used it anyway. He is credited, yes. The credits even show he has publishing rights. But they asked him, he said no, and yet his stuff is in the game.

Now, people have made two automatic assumptions in defending Rockstar's alleged actions here:

1) Rockstar just secured clearances without Daz.
2) Daz doesn't really own what he says he owns.

Maybe because of those two assumptions people are jumping to the conclusion that dude should feel lucky that this video game company used his work without permission or monetary compensation.

But if Rockstar didn't have to approach Daz at all - why did they? Why did they offer him a very specific amount of money? And if Daz doesn't own what he says he owns, how would the suit even have proceeded?

Thanks don't come into it if, as Daz alleges, Rockstar gave him an offer, he declined it, and they just went ahead and did it anyway. That'd be like me asking to borrow a blu-ray, you telling me no, and then just taking it when you're not looking. Would you thank me for doing that?
 
Vashetti said:
"offensively low offer of $4,271.00 for both songs."

Greedy fucker. I'd be honoured to be asked.
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"Honoured"... wtf. Posts like this make me angry :(

Edit. I thought this was a joke at first. This same post was in that Last of Us thread about Naughty Dog stealing a map someone made. It's absolutely terrible that people feel this way about artists. "Honoured".
 
Nightshade1765 said:
Dude should be fucking thankful he's getting that kind of exposure.
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Can we PLEASE stop with this bullshit already? This stupid ass thinking does nothing to settle the argument of whether or not rockstar stole his music. This is about theft.

On topic, whomever said Daz owns his masters, do you have a link? I really want to know just for academic purposes
 
He should put his songs Spotify. He'll only need to have 854,000 ad supported plays to make the same amount of cash Rockstar were offering him. Surely that won't take longer than a couple of weeks.
 
There's no way Rockstar/Take 2's lawyers pre-approved the songs inclusion without a contract being drawn up and signed. Daz is just drumming up controversy.
 
grandjedi6 said:
There's no way Rockstar/Take 2's lawyers pre-approved the songs inclusion without a contract being drawn up and signed. Daz is just drumming up controversy.
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Didn't RockBand and the Guitar Hero games also run into issues with songs not authorized and/or the likeness of artists used in game without their consent? It is plausible this happened but my first instinct is this is just sour grapes for signing a bad contract and is trying to expose his music more by causing controversy.
 
Paid for his work, is a sentence I am seeing a fair bit.

As if this is work that was done specifically for R*, or GTA V.

Not saying he should not be paid, but I think perhaps bare in mind that he has already been paid for his work, and that this was a royalty payment, for sitting on his ass.
 
It doesn't matter how you feel about whether it was a "good deal" or not. It's his decision to make. I feel the game would give his songs exposure to a new younger audience but our opinions don't mean shit.
 
Str0ngStyle said:
On topic, whomever said Daz owns his masters, do you have a link? I really want to know just for academic purposes
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Yeah, I'm searching for that too. Best I can find is an LA Times article from 2001 saying he's suing Death Row.

edit: Found this link, which states he won the suit against Death Row (for 25 mil) and then had to sue his lawyers for malpractice because they never actually got him his money (if I'm reading that right)

BibiMaghoo said:
Not saying he should not be paid, but I think perhaps bare in mind that he has already been paid for his work, and that this was a royalty payment, for sitting on his ass.
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It's "bear in mind," and it doesn't really matter the size of the royalty payment they initially offered beyond the fact that he turned that number down. The use of his music was contingent on his agreement, which was contingent on how much money they were willing to pay.

If, as he alleges, they did offer him that money, he turned it down, and they put the music in anyway - the fact it's a royalty payment doesn't matter. They've used his work without his permission and without monetary compensation.
 
BibiMaghoo said:
Paid for his work, is a sentence I am seeing a fair bit.

As if this is work that was done specifically for R*, or GTA V.

Not saying he should not be paid, but I think perhaps bare in mind that he has already been paid for his work, and that this was a royalty payment, for sitting on his ass.
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But he says that he didn't give them permission to even use them.
 
BibiMaghoo said:
Paid for his work, is a sentence I am seeing a fair bit.

As if this is work that was done specifically for R*, or GTA V.

Not saying he should not be paid, but I think perhaps bare in mind that he has already been paid for his work, and that this was a royalty payment, for sitting on his ass.
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This. We should absolutely be allowed to use other people's IP and pay whatever we feel like.

Go ahead and use Rockstar's IP in a commercial product and send them a check for 4k bucks. Let us know how it goes.
 
Ballad of Gay Tony was banned (well, episodes of LC) in Brazil because Rockstar included a song without permission, then went to court with a document with forged signatures lol. I think they settled later though.
 
Str0ngStyle said:
On topic, whomever said Daz owns his masters, do you have a link? I really want to know just for academic purposes
Click to expand...

I don't know that he owns all his masters but he definitely sued Death Row for money owed for Royalties (which, I believe would indicate either he had a special deal or that he does own his Masters for the songs he did for Death Row). Then there's the little bit of stuff I was able to dig up about the two songs in question. You can find that information in the second half of this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85710658&postcount=269
 
skybaby said:
Ballad of Gay Tony was banned (well, episodes of LC) in Brazil because Rockstar included a song without permission, then went to court with a document with forged signatures lol. I think they settled later though.
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The signatures were not forged. The issue is the song itself contained unauthorised samples.
 
Given the cost for R* of recalling a game as successful as GTAV is it would be much cheaper to just settle out of court.

...........and this rapper guy knows that
 
Also this story is kinda funny considering what happened between Daz and 2Pac's mom. The guy hasn't had the best understanding of copyright law over the years.
 
Hatten said:
Given the cost for R* of recalling a game as successful as GTAV is it would be much cheaper to just settle out of court.

...........and this rapper guy knows that
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I doubt they'd recall anyway, they'd patch it out of the game and new copies would have the patch on the disc. I assume the radio stations are stored as a single compressed audio file with markers, a little bit of programming would make it skip over the markers for his songs.
 
Enjay said:
You're not going to seriously say this game cost more than a billion dollars to make, print, and ship....
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ITT: people think all the revenue goes directly to the publisher/developer

BobbyRoberts said:
To all those toeing the "HE SHOULD BE THANKFUL" line:

These are Daz's allegations:

Rockstar asks him to use his music.
He says their offer is too low, so they can't use it.
Rockstar uses it anyway.

NOW - This is not a situation in which "thanks" are warranted, because once he said "No," they are essentially using his shit without permission. They are stealing it. He has refused his work for their purposes, and they have used it anyway. He is credited, yes. The credits even show he has publishing rights. But they asked him, he said no, and yet his stuff is in the game.

Now, people have made two automatic assumptions in defending Rockstar's alleged actions here:

1) Rockstar just secured clearances without Daz.
2) Daz doesn't really own what he says he owns.

Maybe because of those two assumptions people are jumping to the conclusion that dude should feel lucky that this video game company used his work without permission or monetary compensation.

But if Rockstar didn't have to approach Daz at all - why did they? Why did they offer him a very specific amount of money? And if Daz doesn't own what he says he owns, how would the suit even have proceeded?

Thanks don't come into it if, as Daz alleges, Rockstar gave him an offer, he declined it, and they just went ahead and did it anyway. That'd be like me asking to borrow a blu-ray, you telling me no, and then just taking it when you're not looking. Would you thank me for doing that?
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shh, nothing stops the GOP, er I mean, GTA crazy train
 
Don't get some of these responses, Daz is not some newcomer, dude is a legend on the West Coast.


Then again, even if it was ME asking for the money, if it's my property, it doesn't matter how big I am, you pay me.
 
BibiMaghoo said:
Not saying he should not be paid, but I think perhaps bare in mind that he has already been paid for his work, and that this was a royalty payment, for sitting on his ass.
Click to expand...

He has been paid?

I don't know much about the music business and this artist in particular, but isn't the basic modell that you invest, work for free or loses up front, and then hope for returns?
 
If I am understandind correctly...

R* wanted his songs in the game,

They offered 4K,

He said no,

They put his songs in anyway without paying.

Is this right?

EDIT:
theprodigy said:
I
shh, nothing stops the GOP, er I mean, GTA crazy train
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...I don't get it....The GOP would be more likely to say he should be thankful?
 
Nightshade1765 said:
Dude should be fucking thankful he's getting that kind of exposure.
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So basically we should just give major studios and corporations carte blanche to use people's work however they please without getting permission or paying for it, just because the artist is getting exposure? mmmkay. Maybe Coors should use Neil Young's "This Note's for You" in a Superbowl ad for light beer and he should STFU and be thankful for the exposure?
 
BobbyRoberts said:
To all those toeing the "HE SHOULD BE THANKFUL" line:

These are Daz's allegations:

Rockstar asks him to use his music.
He says their offer is too low, so they can't use it.
Rockstar uses it anyway.

NOW - This is not a situation in which "thanks" are warranted, because once he said "No," they are essentially using his shit without permission. They are stealing it. He has refused his work for their purposes, and they have used it anyway. He is credited, yes. The credits even show he has publishing rights. But they asked him, he said no, and yet his stuff is in the game.

Now, people have made two automatic assumptions in defending Rockstar's alleged actions here:

1) Rockstar just secured clearances without Daz.
2) Daz doesn't really own what he says he owns.

Maybe because of those two assumptions people are jumping to the conclusion that dude should feel lucky that this video game company used his work without permission or monetary compensation.

But if Rockstar didn't have to approach Daz at all - why did they? Why did they offer him a very specific amount of money? And if Daz doesn't own what he says he owns, how would the suit even have proceeded?

Thanks don't come into it if, as Daz alleges, Rockstar gave him an offer, he declined it, and they just went ahead and did it anyway. That'd be like me asking to borrow a blu-ray, you telling me no, and then just taking it when you're not looking. Would you thank me for doing that?
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I agree, people saying "he should be thankful" make no sense, but it seems really odd to me that R* would use his music without any sort of clearance. They've been doing fake radio in these games for over a decade now. It'd be quite strange to all of a sudden throw due process out the window for the biggest entry in the series. Has to be more to the story than this.

If there isn't then...damn. R* needs to fire whoever handles their music licensing these days.
 
Fjordson said:
I agree, people saying "he should be thankful" make no sense, but it seems really odd to me that R* would use his music without any sort of clearance. They've been doing fake radio in these games for over a decade now. It'd be quite strange to all of a sudden throw due process out the window for the biggest entry in the series. Has to be more to the story than this.
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Yeah, that's why I was careful to put in all the "ifs" and "allegedlys" :)

The main question for me is - if there was another avenue to clear the songs, why did Rockstar pursue Daz in the first place. Why not just go to Sony? Were they thinking they could get a deal or something? "Look, we know we can get it from Sony - but maybe Daz will give it to us for cheap. Send someone over there to pitch him," something like that?

Or is it simply a fuckup on someone's part, they told legal it was clear when it wasn't?
 
BobbyRoberts said:
Yeah, that's why I was careful to put in all the "ifs" and "allegedlys" :)

The main question for me is - if there was another avenue to clear the songs, why did Rockstar pursue Daz in the first place. Why not just go to Sony? Were they thinking they could get a deal or something? "Look, we know we can get it from Sony - but maybe Daz will give it to us for cheap. Send someone over there to pitch him," something like that?

Or is it simply a fuckup on someone's part, they told legal it was clear when it wasn't?
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Good question there.

If this really is on Rockstar then that's lame. Not just because Daz didn't get paid, but because the songs in the game are great additions to the radio :lol
 
I really can't believe that after going through this shit with TBOGT Rockstar would be stupid enough to make the same mistake again.
 
What was the TBOGT issue? I thought that was more surrounding issues with the original song, not the use of it by Rockstar.

Ninja Scooter said:
The credits also include Daz' name and company. Interesting that they'd put that in there if A) his permission weren't required and B) if they didn't get that permission.
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Yeah he is listed in the Publishers roles but it's marked as "Courtesy of Priority" and "By arrangement with Sony Music Entertainment", which I guess is where the misunderstanding with Daz lies.
 
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