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[Fusebox]

I'm aware of the different uses of the left-hand thumb. Thing is, I'm against it in any case.

Duly noted, good thing I also have a rule against taking rock guitar advice from classical players.

"You can't play that string with that finger!"

Edit - Also, LOL @ that blog's example of bassists using the thumb to justify the technique. Upright bass technique is a totally different bag.

Uh, LOL indeed. Ignore the fact he mentions Merle Travis, Chet Atkins, Eric Clapton, Les Paul, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix and John Mayer and by all means focus on the paassing reference to the upright bass if that makes you feel better.

 

[dvolovets]

Duly noted, good thing I also have a rule against taking rock guitar advice from classical players.

"You can't play that string with that finger!"

*shrug*

Whatever works for ya, dude. I'm just saying that it's both harmonically limiting and physically harmful.

Edit - As to the above, I've played countless pieces with walking bass lines. You do not need the thumb to play such pieces. You/the blog listed some guitar players...that's fine...but here's one of the greatest jazz guitarists playing a totally improvised piece with a bass line without using that technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFqiDcvRW2Y

 

[Fusebox]

Edit - As to the above, I've played countless pieces with walking bass lines.

I didn't say anything about walking bass lines.

 

[dvolovets]

I didn't say anything about walking bass lines.

The blog implied it by leading into the left-hand thumb's use in upright bass technique. The rest of the 'advantages' you listed can all be accomplished with proficient classical technique.

 

[SRG01]

*shrug*

Whatever works for ya, dude. I'm just saying that it's both harmonically limiting and physically harmful.

Edit - As to the above, I've played countless pieces with walking bass lines. You do not need the thumb to play such pieces. You listed some guitar players...that's fine...but here's one of the greatest jazz guitarists playing a totally improvised piece with a bass line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFqiDcvRW2Y

Thumb on top seriously limits a guitarists ability to move up (ie. towards E and A). It's great if you want to move to the high strings, which a lot of guitarists tend to do, but it's absolute crap for going the other direction. Proper fingering aside, the thumb is supposed to act as a pivot point for the rest of your fingers.

 

[Fusebox]

The blog implied it by leading into the left-hand thumb's use in upright bass technique.

Like I said...

Ignore the fact he mentions Merle Travis, Chet Atkins, Eric Clapton, Les Paul, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix and John Mayer and by all means focus on the passing reference to the upright bass if that makes you feel better.

 

[dvolovets]

What do any of those guitarists have to do with the fact that the technique is harmonically limiting and physically harmful? Notice that rockers very rarely go beyond major, minor, dominant, and diminished harmonies. In fact, all the guitarists you listed, while great, have a limited harmonic palette. If that's the bag that suits you, great. But there's also the debilitating pain thing to deal with...

 

[Fusebox]

Well, it isn't harmonically limiting, it's just one more option and depending on what it is exactly you're trying to play it can open up more harmonic possibilities.

And if I ever begin to feel even the slightest tension using that technique, let alone anything close to debilitating pain, I'll be sure to come back and tell you you were right.

 

[dvolovets]

Well if I ever begin to feel even the slightest tension using that technique, let alone anything close to debilitating pain, I'll be sure to come back and tell you you were right.

OK, sounds good. But keep in mind that I've seen countless people who experience pain and have been using that technique for years. I'm not the only one in this thread saying this, either...

 

[SRG01]

Like I said...

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but name dropping is by no means a good way to support a point. Many artists -- famous artists, may I add -- often use incorrect technique that may be harmful to most players. Just because they're renowned doesn't mean that their technique is great. They may have some physical trait that allows them to play the way they do.

To paraphrase Bruce Cockburn, he usually plays with his thumb on top (and acts as a fifth finger at times), but he frequently acknowledges that it's harmful for most players to do.

 

[lawlohwhat]

OP, you probably aren't holding the instrument properly. You should be putting counter-pressure on the body of the guitar with your right arm(assuming you're playing a right handed guitar) and leverage that pressure with your chord forming hand. You're probably holding the thing with a death grip, which is likely causing fingers to be touching strings that they shouldn't be, and resulting in a muddy, ugly chord. This is unnecessary! You barely need to put any pressure on the strings with your fingers.

Ideally, your thumb will barely touch the neck of the guitar and is primarily used for stabilization, although, this is very hard for a beginner to get down. Notice in this picture that my thumb doesn't even need to touch the neck at all, yet that F chord will ring perfectly because I'm holding the guitar against my body with my right arm.

You shouldn't see the tips and knuckles in your fingers go white from squeezing. Most people learn how to hold the guitar this way, and those habits are very hard to break later on. It tends to roll your thumb toward the top of the guitar, which is a very limiting posture.

It's kind of hard to explain on a forum post, but hopefully this helps. Good luck.

 

[SRG01]

OP, you probably aren't holding the instrument properly. You should be putting counter-pressure on the body of the guitar with your right arm(assuming you're playing a right handed guitar) and leverage that pressure with your chord forming hand. You're probably holding the thing with a death grip, which is likely causing fingers to be touching strings that they shouldn't be, and resulting in a muddy, ugly chord. This is unnecessary! You barely need to put any pressure on the strings with your fingers.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2ptpdon.jpg

Ideally, your thumb will barely touch the neck of the guitar and is primarily used for stabilization, although, this is very hard for a beginner to get down. Notice in this picture that my thumb doesn't even need to touch the neck at all, yet that F chord will ring perfectly because I'm holding the guitar against my body with my right arm.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2yzbmts.jpg

You shouldn't see the tips and knuckles in your fingers go white from squeezing. Most people learn how to hold the guitar this way, and those habits are very hard to break later on. It tends to roll your thumb toward the top of the guitar, which is a very limiting posture.
http://i54.tinypic.com/ngsuvp.jpg

It's kind of hard to explain on a forum post, but hopefully this helps. Good luck.

A+ post. It helps to sit properly as well.

 

[Fusebox]

To paraphrase Bruce Cockburn, he usually plays with his thumb on top (and acts as a fifth finger at times), but he frequently acknowledges that it's harmful for most players to do.

Thanks for the concern, but I must have similar hands to Bruce then. Back on page one I found out its uncomfortable for one GAFer because his thumb naturally went a fret past the tonic, but for me it is comfortable as my thumb naturally rests on the tonic. All I need to do it give it a slight downward flex and the note is fretted, no weird contortion or flexing needed.

I would certainly recommend if the position feels unnatural or forced to anyone not to do it for extended periods.

 

[SRG01]

Thanks for the concern, but I must have similar hands to Bruce then. Back on page one I found out its uncomfortable for one GAFer because his thumb naturally went a fret past the tonic, but for me it is comfortable as my thumb naturally rests on the tonic. All I need to do it give it a slight downward flex and the note is fretted, no weird contortion or flexing needed.

I would certainly recommend if the position feels unnatural or forced to anyone not to do it for extended periods.

Serious question: How are you holding your elbow?

 

[vas_a_morir]

My band plays nothing but barre chords. Because of that, it's really easy for us to do them... but I used to think the F was impossible when I first started.

And, I'm plus 1 on the mutant two-finger turtle chords for chords based on the A string. It's incorrect, but it's how I will always play them.

 

[Fusebox]

Serious question: How are you holding your elbow?

I don't hold my elbow, my hands are already full holding the guitar.

Serious answer: It depends whether I'm sitting or standing and what style I'm playing.

 

[mokeyjoe]

My band plays nothing but barre chords. Because of that, it's really easy for us to do them... but I used to think the F was impossible when I first started.

And, I'm plus 1 on the mutant two-finger turtle chords for chords based on the A string. It's incorrect, but it's how I will always play them.

It's only incorrect for classical guitar. Although I generally still do it when playing classical... to be honest it's a lot easier to do it with classical because you have the guitar in a much more upright position which makes the 'correct' way much easier - it's a bit more awkward when you're playing standing up or standard acoustic style.

 

[Fusebox]

it's a bit more awkward when you're playing standing up or standard acoustic style.

How much do you guys play standing up vs sitting down? I'm probably 75% standing up 25% sitting down these days.

 

[Raistlin]

Hey yeah, I'm double-jointed in my thumbs and pinkies, maybe that's why thumb-over-top is comfy for me.

One thing that sucks though is certain bar/power chords hurt my thumb after prolonged playing.

Not sure if this effects everyone that's double jointed, but you know how certain chords force you to apply pressure on the back of the neck with your thumb to get the proper leverage? After a while it starts hurting because so much pressure is being applied to the the joint due to the thumb being bent backwards.

 

[Fusebox]

Ideally you want most of that pressure to come from the fingers on the fretboard making the barre, not the thumb which is supporting the entire barre. Just keep doing it the way you're doing it though and eventually you'll notice that you're using less and less pressure to make the same chord shapes.

edit - just catching up on my backlog of Guitar Worlds "lick of the day". Dec 16th was their 'thumb over the top funk riff'. I'd like to see someone play that one without putting their thumb over the top, lol.

 

[White Man]

anyone try out one of those new fender pawn shop guitars?

 

[stOex]

anyone try out one of those new fender pawn shop guitars?

Yes. They sound and feel very nice actually.

 

[Raistlin]

Yes. They sound and feel very nice actually.

I'll have to check them out. I love the styling. The fit and finish looks great as well.

I have to wonder what brought this on? I wonder if it's the success of the Squier Classic Vibe series? Seems like this is the natural progression for a higher end offering from Fender proper.





I'm curious how these versions of the Fender 'Wide Range' Humbucker sound though. I have a Tele Deluxe '72 Reissue, and it really sounds nothing like the original. Actually at default, it sounds like a pile of mud. Had to adjust the height of the poles to get a decent tone. While it still sounds different than the original, it's pretty interesting after some hacking. Quite the dark tone.

Even if they still can't (or don't want to) mimic the original's tones, hopefully the new ones are better than the deluxe reissue out of the box.

 

[Xun]

anyone try out one of those new fender pawn shop guitars?

I've only just heard about them but the Mustang looks great.

Also I've barely played my Blacktop Tele I got last year since I'm constantly playing the acoustic (far better for learning I find).

I really must play it more since it's beautiful.