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[dog$]

And there is no rock without music being played, therefore I'd say the game's focus is to play music.

If Harmonix wanted to "get all goofy" with new ways to have the guitar make sounds (pressure-sensitive frets for true vibrato?), they've got my blessing for that. Any additions that aren't about playing music would be contrary to what makes GH work.

 

[xsarien]

I've used programs like ReCycle to splice a song into tiny parts based on tempo and have them triggered via MIDI. Might be a pain in the ass to include something like this in music games but that's besides the point, if they wanted to they could do it (see Codemasters DDR knock off) but devs/publishers also want to make money.

But you're not triggering song segments in Guitar Hero, you're actually triggering the guitar track. The reason Harmonix needed to record their own versions of the music was so they could get the kind of isolation necessary for their software to work with the individual tracks.

 

[sprsk]

And there is no rock without music being played, therefore I'd say the game's focus is to play music.

If Harmonix wanted to "get all goofy" with new ways to have the guitar make sounds (pressure-sensitive frets for true vibrato?), they've got my blessing for that. Any additions that aren't about playing music would be contrary to what makes GH work.

so do you want them to take out the part where you have to turn your guitar vertical to enable extra score multipliers?

the game is called GUITAR HERO, not GUITAR VIRTUOSO.

 

[Matlock]

<Common Sense> The Revolution controller would probably rock for Guitar Hero.
*GAF balks

 

[dog$]

so do you want them to take out the part where you have to turn your guitar vertical to enable extra score multipliers?

Usually when I play GF I hold the guitar vertically 100% of the time so that I don't have to think about the Wailing Bonuses. And in GH you can always hit the start button to toggle the meter.

I don't think I'd miss it.

 

[Beezy]

<Common Sense> The Revolution controller would probably rock for Guitar Hero.
*GAF balks

And also calls everyone who agrees an N-fan. You guys are retarded.

 

[blahness]

Usually when I play GF I hold the guitar vertically 100% of the time so that I don't have to think about the Wailing Bonuses. And in GH you can always hit the start button to toggle the meter.

I don't think I'd miss it.

i wouldnt miss it either... i never hold the guitar vertically. hitting the select button the bottom palm of my strum hand is a ton easier for me.

 

[Matlock]

Usually when I play GF I hold the guitar vertically 100% of the time so that I don't have to think about the Wailing Bonuses. And in GH you can always hit the start button to toggle the meter.

I don't think I'd miss it.

Holding the guitar vertically all the time in GH would not trigger the bonus, nor would hitting start activate it.

 

[Bloodwake]

And also calls everyone who agrees an N-fan. You guys are retarded.

Yeah really.

 

[Stink]

Revolution Guitar Hero will be called 'Mario: Guitar Hero' and will consist entirely of plinky-plonky Nintendo tunes.

Nintendo fans will love it, everyone else will simply tut knowingly.

 

[dog$]

Holding the guitar vertically all the time in GH would not trigger the bonus

which is why I said that's what I do for GF, not GH.

nor would hitting start activate it.

well whatever the circle button on the bottom of the controller is that you can hit to activate the meter. Start, select, whatever the fuck it is. That button.

the select button

ok, the fucking select button. There.

 

[Open Source]

<Common Sense> The Revolution controller would probably rock for Guitar Hero.
*GAF balks

Yes, Red Octane should re-engineer and redesign their guitar peripheral so that it uses the Revolution remote as a tilt sensor. That way, they can spend thousands on R&D and manufacturing costs, instead of simply replacing a few components and keeping the overall design intact. Never mind that the revmote's buttons couldn't be used because of button layout concerns and that the tilt sensor, which probably costs Red Octane about $2 to put in themselves, would be the only feature used.

It's common sense and you're a retard if you think otherwise.

 

[shuri]

And the gh controller already has a tilt censor of some sort.

 

[xsarien]

Yes, Red Octane should re-engineer and redesign their guitar peripheral so that it uses the Revolution remote as a tilt sensor.

Seeing that peripherial design is part of what they do, and the fact that the Revolution would actually take care of the tilt-sensing for them, it shouldn't be too huge of an issue. If anything, they'd get to remove a component.

That way, they can spend thousands on R&D and manufacturing costs, instead of simply replacing a few components and keeping the overall design intact. Never mind that the revmote's buttons couldn't be used because of button layout concerns and that the tilt sensor, which probably costs Red Octane about $2 to put in themselves, would be the only feature used.

Hi, have you been paying attention? The Rev's controller is designed to dock into shells. Nothing about the guitar's interface would have to be changed, and you wouldn't be using the remote's buttons at all.

And the gh controller already has a tilt censor of some sort.

A tilt sensor. The Revolution's remote can do full-on motion tracking within a 3D space. There is a difference.

 

[BuddyC]

I'm amazed by how you people have taken a speculatory piece of information regarding one console and turned it into a speculatory argument regarding another. I mean, the quote leaves it open for a Rev version, but c'mon people. Wirless guitars! Microtransactions! Online play! The potential!

 

[Flynn]

The Xbox versions of Dance Dance Revolution and Karaoke Revolution have additional song packs you can buy via Live.

No kidding. When Konami first did press for the games they made it seem like this was improbable.

 

[Open Source]

Seeing that peripherial design is part of what they do, and the fact that the Revolution would actually take care of the tilt-sensing for them, it shouldn't be too huge of an issue. If anything, they'd get to remove a component.



Hi, have you been paying attention? The Rev's controller is designed to dock into shells. Nothing about the guitar's interface would have to be changed, and you wouldn't be using the remote's buttons at all.

Yes, so you would have to redesign the shell so it could dock the remote (R&D cost plus changes to the physical manufacturing process), and you would have to redesign the electronics so that they could interface with the remote (same). All this to save $2 (or whatever the sensor costs, maybe even less)? Why not? EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH REVMOTE.

 

[Taker666]

Seeing that peripherial design is part of what they do, and the fact that the Revolution would actually take care of the tilt-sensing for them, it shouldn't be too huge of an issue. If anything, they'd get to remove a component.



Hi, have you been paying attention? The Rev's controller is designed to dock into shells. Nothing about the guitar's interface would have to be changed, and you wouldn't be using the remote's buttons at all.


A tilt sensor. The Revolution's remote can do full-on motion tracking within a 3D space. There is a difference.

At the very least they could use the depth perception on the revolution control to produce feedback if you get too close to the tv.

 

[Open Source]

At the very least they could use the depth perception on the revolution control to produce feedback if you get too close to the tv.

What if your TV is small or your vision is bad?

 

[Taker666]

What if your TV is small or your vision is bad?

Wuh?

 

[sprsk]

At the very least they could use the depth perception on the revolution control to produce feedback if you get too close to the tv.

now that would be fucking cool

 

[Open Source]

Wuh?

You have to stand close to the TV to see it, and then you get feedback...so you have to makeit an optional feature that adds only a tiny bit of immersion factor, when there are 100 other features that would make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

 

[xsarien]

Yes, so you would have to redesign the shell so it could dock the remote (R&D cost plus changes to the physical manufacturing process), and you would have to redesign the electronics so that they could interface with the remote (same). All this to save $2 (or whatever the sensor costs, maybe even less)? Why not? EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH REVMOTE.

Fun fact: The tilt sensor isn't exactly one of the cheaper portions of the controller.

 

[sprsk]

You have to stand close to the TV to see it, and then you get feedback...so you have to makeit an optional feature that adds only a tiny bit of immersion factor, when there are 100 other features that would make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

are you serious.

 

[Beezy]

EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH REVMOTE.

It seems that you hate people for simply stating an idea. Either that or you have some secret hatred for Nintendo or what they're trying to do with this new system.

 

[Open Source]

It seems that you hate people for simply stating an idea. Either that or you have some secret hatred for Nintendo or what they're trying to do with this new system.

No, I have no feelings at all about people or Nintendo or their new system. I'm simply explaining why it's not practical, and I am also wondering why people keep trying to shoehorn the nintendo controller into game ideas that it just doesn't fit with. If anything, it is people advocating the controller who are calling those who disagree "retarded" and implying that they lack common sense.

 

[Bloodwake]

It seems that you hate people for simply stating an idea. Either that or you have some secret hatred for Nintendo or what they're trying to do with this new system.

Exactly.

"Don't be hatin'!"

 

[sprsk]

No, I have no feelings at all about people or Nintendo or their new system. I'm simply explaining why it's not practical, and I am also wondering why people keep trying to shoehorn the nintendo controller into game ideas that it just doesn't fit with. If anything, it is people advocating the controller who are calling those who disagree "retarded" and implying that they lack common sense.

so its not practical because some people have bad tvs and have bad vision?


cant people with poor vision, i dunno WEAR GLASSES?

what are your 100 better ideas? I'd sure like to hear them. Cause the stuff ive heard (rock moves, feedback) sure sound like they would make fun and worthy additions to the gameplay.

 

[Speevy]

I still don't want to play a guitar, but it's nice to see the 360 get support.

 

[Beezy]

No, I have no feelings at all about people or Nintendo or their new system. I'm simply explaining why it's not practical, and I am also wondering why people keep trying to shoehorn the nintendo controller into game ideas that it just doesn't fit with. If anything, it is people advocating the controller who are calling those who disagree "retarded" and implying that they lack common sense.

Okay, but people are basing these ideas on wha they've heard about the revmote so far. No one said it's going to happen, just that it would be neat if it did. We don't expect it to really happen. I don't know about you, but most of us aren't game developers.

Not once in this thread have I seen someone being called retarded for disagreeing.

 

[xsarien]

No, I have no feelings at all about people or Nintendo or their new system. I'm simply explaining why it's not practical, and I am also wondering why people keep trying to shoehorn the nintendo controller into game ideas that it just doesn't fit with.

Except that it does fit rather well, and if you'd stop foaming at the mouth for two little seconds and think you'd realize that.

 

[timmy]

And also calls everyone who agrees an N-fan. You guys are retarded.

It's way easier to respond to a good point by name-calling than it is to explain why you disagree with it.

 

[Spike]

No, I have no feelings at all about people or Nintendo or their new system. I'm simply explaining why it's not practical, and I am also wondering why people keep trying to shoehorn the nintendo controller into game ideas that it just doesn't fit with. If anything, it is people advocating the controller who are calling those who disagree "retarded" and implying that they lack common sense.

Who says that the revmote doesn't fit this idea? You?

Good games should go to all systems. Period. I was happy when RE4 went to the PS2. Why isn't it on the Xbox or 360 yet? I want to see the best games everywhere, so they can gain sales from every platform available. More supported systems = more sales = more funds/freedom to develop the next "gem." Screw the fanboys.

 

[Open Source]

so its not practical because some people have bad tvs and have bad vision?


cant people with poor vision, i dunno WEAR GLASSES?

what are your 100 better ideas? I'd sure like to hear them. Cause the stuff ive heard (rock moves, feedback) sure sound like they would make fun and worthy additions to the gameplay.

I was talking about docking the remote inside the guitar peripheral, not necessarily the feedback idea.

Anyway, here are some ideas:
- Guitar pedal (has already been discussed), lets people customize their song playback, makes people feel like they are making music instead of just reproducing existing music

- Greater variety of mistake sounds, so that it sounds more like it does when you actually screw up on a real guitar (more pitches, more tones, instead of always the same canned effect). Maybe take the intended note and play it back at a higher or lower pitch.

- Have a jam mode where you can create your own stuff. Might have to limit it to single notes (no chords) but would still be pretty cool. Obviously, the interface is not optimal for this sort of thing, but a clever use of buttons could probably get you two full octaves. Then you could lay additional tracks on top to make chords if you needed to

- Increase the crowd involvement. Singing along, more intensity and volume in general. They only seem to make a decent amount of noise when you have star power going. More pre-show and post show flavor. Groupies yelling "I love you!" People throwing stuff at you when you suck. Or shouting "you suck!" In general, more interesting visual stuff happening during the show.

- More RPG/management elements. Maybe you only get one shot at a show, you have to hire a drummer, the bassist gets arrested, the guitarist and the keyboardist fight, the singer is too wasted to perform, etc. Earning money for unlockables seems like a throw in feature, and the different characters and guitars and stuff don't really seem like good rewards. If there was some gameplay reason to spend money (not necessarily the stuff I threw out), earning money (and thus, 5 star shows) would be a better reward for good performance.

I could go on, but I am getting paid to design different things right now.

 

[Wario64]

<Common Sense> The Revolution controller would probably rock for Guitar Hero.
*GAF balks

Games X would be perfect for the Revolution.

X = Time Crisis, Guitar Hero, Eyetoy games, Para Para Paradise, Police 911, that stick your finger in an anus game



tsctsc

 

[Open Source]

Who says that the revmote doesn't fit this idea? You?

Good games should go to all systems. Period. I was happy when RE4 went to the PS2. Why isn't it on the Xbox or 360 yet? I want to see the best games everywhere, so they can gain sales from every platform available. More supported systems = more sales = more funds/freedom to develop the next "gem." Screw the fanboys.

Yes, I say that it doesn't fit, and I explained why. Until someone who's done more industrial and electronic hardware design that I have wants to explain how Red Octane will save money by changing their design and manufactuing process to replace a perfectly functional, fairly cheap component, I will keep disagreeing with people who say it fits.

Now, bringing Guitar Hero to the Revolution is a fine idea. Where did I say otherwise? Swap out the controller interface in the guitar for Nintendo's controller interface, and you're golden. That's a very minimal expense compared to changing the physical shell and adding an electronic docking mechanism for the remote.

 

[Beezy]

Games X would be perfect for the Revolution.

X = that stick your finger in an anus game

Stick the revmote in an anus would be much better since it vibrates.

The actual games that you mentioned do seem like they would be great for the Revolution (except Eyetoy stuff, no camera), based on what we know about the controller. What's so wrong with saying that?

 

[sprsk]

I was talking about docking the remote inside the guitar peripheral, not necessarily the feedback idea.

Anyway, here are some ideas:
- Guitar pedal (has already been discussed), lets people customize their song playback, makes people feel like they are making music instead of just reproducing existing music

- Greater variety of mistake sounds, so that it sounds more like it does when you actually screw up on a real guitar (more pitches, more tones, instead of always the same canned effect). Maybe take the intended note and play it back at a higher or lower pitch.

- Have a jam mode where you can create your own stuff. Might have to limit it to single notes (no chords) but would still be pretty cool. Obviously, the interface is not optimal for this sort of thing, but a clever use of buttons could probably get you two full octaves. Then you could lay additional tracks on top to make chords if you needed to

- Increase the crowd involvement. Singing along, more intensity and volume in general. They only seem to make a decent amount of noise when you have star power going. More pre-show and post show flavor. Groupies yelling "I love you!" People throwing stuff at you when you suck. Or shouting "you suck!" In general, more interesting visual stuff happening during the show.

- More RPG/management elements. Maybe you only get one shot at a show, you have to hire a drummer, the bassist gets arrested, the guitarist and the keyboardist fight, the singer is too wasted to perform, etc. Earning money for unlockables seems like a throw in feature, and the different characters and guitars and stuff don't really seem like good rewards. If there was some gameplay reason to spend money (not necessarily the stuff I threw out), earning money (and thus, 5 star shows) would be a better reward for good performance.

I could go on, but I am getting paid to design different things right now.

okay so why couldnt we have any of this and then rev features? A pedal would most likely cost more than changing the controller input to fit a rev controller. mistake sounds have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. Jam mode would be fun but what do you think you can do with 5 keys? Crowd involvement, has nothing to do with playing guitar. Adding in some extra sound effects is not better than rock moves or feedback.

On the last one this isn't "band manager" its "guitar hero" all of these elements would take away from the core gameplay which is ROCKING OUT WITH YOUR FRIENDS.

 

[xsarien]

Yes, I say that it doesn't fit, and I explained why. Until someone who's done more industrial and electronic hardware design that I have wants to explain how Red Octane will save money by changing their design and manufactuing process to replace a perfectly functional, fairly cheap component, I will keep disagreeing with people who say it fits.

Harmonix is on record: they were told that the tilt sensor (and the whammy bar, for that matter) would "[significantly] raise the manufacturing cost" of the guitar (Game Developer, Feb. 2005). I'd imagine removing it and replacing it with a static connector would only bring the cost of the damned thing down, especially since they'd also be able to get rid of the cable and rely on the remote's communication with the Revolution for standard I/O.

A new peripheral for the sequel, designed to take advantage of the Revolution shouldn't tax Red Octane too much since most of the work is done by Nintendo anyway. It's hardly going to bankrupt them, you know.

 

[Matlock]

xsarien: not to mention, the decreased production costs could very well lead to a full-size guitar. One could only hope.

 

[Open Source]

Red Octane's on record: Harmonix was told that the tilt sensor (and the whammy bar, for that matter) would "[significantly] raise the manufacturing cost" of the guitar (Game Developer, Feb. 2005). I'd imagine removing it and replacing it with a static connector would only bring the cost of the damned thing down, especially since they'd also be able to get rid of the cable and rely on the remote's communication with the Revolution for standard I/O.

A new peripheral for the sequel, designed to take advantage of the Revolution shouldn't tax Red Octane too much since most of the work is done by Nintendo anyway. It's hardly going to bankrupt them, you know.

That was when they were planning to have more than single-axis tilt (shaking the guitar, turning it upside down behind your head, etc.). A single-axis electronic tilt sensor can be had for $5 off the shelf, probably about $2 wholesale in volume. It is probably cheaper to keep the cable and not have to send button inputs back and forth from the guitar's buttons to the remote.

On the last one this isn't "band manager" its "guitar hero" all of these elements would take away from the core gameplay which is ROCKING OUT WITH YOUR FRIENDS.

I agree with this, but as it is now, career mode is basically just a constrained version of quickplay, and doesn't really have enough there to justify its existence--as it is now, I'd rather just play songs in quickplay instead of slogging through songs I don't want to play in career mode for no real reward other than being able to play that song in quickplay. The way I would make it...if you want to rock out with your friends, which I agree is the best way to play, you play quickplay. If you want more RPG/management stuff, you do career.

As for your other comments...Guitar Hero's appeal is not based on interesting gameplay. Hitting the notes in time to reproduce a song has been done like this many times without inspiring purchases. What makes it cool and fun is that it makes you feel like you are a rock star playing music with adoring fans. The features I am talking about build on that.

 

[levious]

I was talking about docking the remote inside the guitar peripheral, not necessarily the feedback idea.

Anyway, here are some ideas:
- Guitar pedal (has already been discussed), lets people customize their song playback, makes people feel like they are making music instead of just reproducing existing music

- Greater variety of mistake sounds, so that it sounds more like it does when you actually screw up on a real guitar (more pitches, more tones, instead of always the same canned effect). Maybe take the intended note and play it back at a higher or lower pitch.

- Have a jam mode where you can create your own stuff. Might have to limit it to single notes (no chords) but would still be pretty cool. Obviously, the interface is not optimal for this sort of thing, but a clever use of buttons could probably get you two full octaves. Then you could lay additional tracks on top to make chords if you needed to

- Increase the crowd involvement. Singing along, more intensity and volume in general. They only seem to make a decent amount of noise when you have star power going. More pre-show and post show flavor. Groupies yelling "I love you!" People throwing stuff at you when you suck. Or shouting "you suck!" In general, more interesting visual stuff happening during the show.

- More RPG/management elements. Maybe you only get one shot at a show, you have to hire a drummer, the bassist gets arrested, the guitarist and the keyboardist fight, the singer is too wasted to perform, etc. Earning money for unlockables seems like a throw in feature, and the different characters and guitars and stuff don't really seem like good rewards. If there was some gameplay reason to spend money (not necessarily the stuff I threw out), earning money (and thus, 5 star shows) would be a better reward for good performance.

I could go on, but I am getting paid to design different things right now.

good thing you're not getting paid to design anything to do with Guitar Hero.

 

[Beezy]

good thing you're not getting paid to design anything to do with Guitar Hero.

His ideas don't sound bad, except for the management bit.

 

[RevenantKioku]

This would give me reason to buy a 360.

 

[Cranehand2ndComing]

Guitar Hero's appeal is not based on interesting gameplay.

Huh???

 

[miyuru]

They're all good ideas, all of them. It's just a matter of doing them *right*. People start fighting on GAF because when someone comes up with an idea, others assume that's the be-all-end-all. It's NOT, people.

I think a true career mode would be really interesting, if done *right*. I think we have the tendency to say such ideas suck because, they don't sound very feasable - there's a greater chance of that mode sucking than it being really fun.

Now don't get me started on the guy who wanted a remix mode :lol

 

[RevenantKioku]

Oh yeah, Amplitude's remix mode turned out a lot of winners.
*fart*

 

[vatstep]

Oh man, I PRAY that this happens. I sold my PS2 last summer for money toward my 360, and Guitar Hero is making me hate myself for doing so. I'm fighting the urge to go drop $200+ for another PS2 and a copy of the game.