Compared to the shooters coming out prior to Half Life? Are you freaking insane? Sure TEN YEARS LATER Half Life's storytelling may not seem all that spectacular. That's because it created the style of shooter that every other shooter developer on the planet has been trying to ape for a decade now.
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Half-Life 1 had immersive storytelling? (spoilers)
- Thread starter Afrocious
- Start date
BravoSuperStar
Member
Afrocious said:
Coming from your own posts in this thread I don't feel you have played, or know enough about the half life games to make a qualified judgment. Thanks for sharing though.
krzyspc said:
Bioshock = piece of shit? Wow. I found the story to be amazing, regardless of how it may be a clone of System Shock 2.
After this post, I have realized I'm comparing apples to oranges when talking about the immersiveness in Half Life 1 and Half Life 2. In one, you're a heroic revolutionary and the other you're a screwed dude.
You guys win, but I honestly believe that some of you went overboard when you brought the fact up that the game was innovative. That is true, but I didn't even talk about that.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Klone.K said:
:lol :lol :lol
That went right over your head. I can't believe you brought Metal Gear into this. I'm not even going to bite though, as others have already said what needed to be said.
Half-Life 1 is still very damned immersive and a tiny bit more than HL2. The series needs some more set-pieces like Opposing Forces, or better yet...crysis. They are going for the movie feel, and its supposed to be this epic journey, well...the set pieces could use some work. HL2 had some good ones but, the main ones I remember all come from Opp Forces, and that's for FPS in general. I hadn't played any that made my mind explode until CoD4 and crysis. The only one in CoD4 was the Air Force One set. Crysis had a ton.
I don't mind HL2's way of handling cutscenes though, heh.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
phez said:
I would say the beginning and the middle. After a certain scene it goes downhill.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Unless someone starts nailing down the definition of story in this case, this discussion can't go too much further. A progression of events, even if composed of the most mundane of actions, could still be considered a story even if it isn't entirely directed by the authors.
For example, I was nearly killed in an ambush by Xen aliens in an office area. Not having eliminated all those that had attacked me and having just expended the remaining shells for my 12-gauge shotgun, I had to resort to using my .357 Python revolver and hurriedly retreated back into a darkened and bullet-ridden cubicle with only the intermittent flashing of a lone fluorescent light above illuminating a small and angled slice of the outside hallway. Frantically reloading while quickly scanning the darkness ahead, I waited for signs of life. Then, all of a sudden, there was the sound of a Vortigaunt readying its deadly electrical discharge from the far end of the hallway. I backed away from the doorway and prepared to return fire. Etc., etc. /poorly-written fanfic
Moment to moment events can tell a story even if they aren't strictly bounded on all sides by pre-conceived design and writing via dialogue or other storytelling devices.
For 1998, Half-Life was a pretty awesome achievement. Hell, that game still beats the everliving shit out of a lot of the mediocre shooters we see get released today. Not liking it or not finding it as immersive as something that came down the pipe later on isn't a problem, but not giving it the correct perspective based on what came before and what came after in its wake doesn't help.
For example, I was nearly killed in an ambush by Xen aliens in an office area. Not having eliminated all those that had attacked me and having just expended the remaining shells for my 12-gauge shotgun, I had to resort to using my .357 Python revolver and hurriedly retreated back into a darkened and bullet-ridden cubicle with only the intermittent flashing of a lone fluorescent light above illuminating a small and angled slice of the outside hallway. Frantically reloading while quickly scanning the darkness ahead, I waited for signs of life. Then, all of a sudden, there was the sound of a Vortigaunt readying its deadly electrical discharge from the far end of the hallway. I backed away from the doorway and prepared to return fire. Etc., etc. /poorly-written fanfic
Moment to moment events can tell a story even if they aren't strictly bounded on all sides by pre-conceived design and writing via dialogue or other storytelling devices.
For 1998, Half-Life was a pretty awesome achievement. Hell, that game still beats the everliving shit out of a lot of the mediocre shooters we see get released today. Not liking it or not finding it as immersive as something that came down the pipe later on isn't a problem, but not giving it the correct perspective based on what came before and what came after in its wake doesn't help.
sixthsubset
Banned
half-life 1's storytelling is immersive because it feels natural. you never get plucked out of your biohazard suit to watch gordon kill aliens or monologue for awhile in a cutscene. you don't finish a level and end up somewhere else far far away in a new environment.
yeah, there really isn't alot to the story. but i like it that way. it makes everything that much more real because things don't happen that fast in real life.
yeah, there really isn't alot to the story. but i like it that way. it makes everything that much more real because things don't happen that fast in real life.
ElectricBlue187
Member
blame space said:
this.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
MightyHedgehog said:
A good comparison, I think, is to look at Quake 2 and then look at Half-Life.
Both games share some very similar tech features; mid-level loading points, for instance (though Q2's are spaced much, much farther apart than HL's). Quake 2 feels like it's on the edge of being something great, to me, but it's too entrenched in "the old ways". Half-Life came out that same year if I remember correctly, and took it all to a new level in terms of AI, and gameplay design, and all of that.
sixthsubset
Banned
Oldschoolgamer said:
where did they mention that they're going for the movie feel? it's like the polar opposite of that imo
i don't really know what you're talking about with the set pieces. i remember alot more from the half-life series than from cod4, though i never played crysis. like in hl1 the valley in surface tension and the giant monster in the circular room and xen in general. in hl2 the beach and the bridge and the city in general. cod4 was just non-descript middle eastern warzone through and through to me ?_?
fifasnipe2224
Member
HL1 > (insert any game here)
*my 1st post
*my 1st post
abstract alien
Member
The actual story in either half life is weak at best, and the only thing that makes it worth going through is the fact that events happen in real time and valve has no idea what a cutscene is...and thats a good thing.
speculawyer
Member
You need to judge H-L 1 compared to what was around at the time. Compared to the other FPS games at the time, HL-1 was a godsend.
I finished the 1st half life a couple of years ago and really wasn't impressed. Its like one of those old haunted house rides where you hit the trigger point and the animatronic seen starts up, finishes and your car moves on to the next trigger point. I also thought it was poorly paced, especially compared to HL2, which is so much more natural feeling. I was really looking forward to playing it since so many people point to it as great way to tell a story in game. Now I'm wondering what they were talking about. Maybe it was great in 98, but now...not so much. HL2, thats a different story.
What did it for me was the evolution of the character(s) involved. And since HL1 was the introduction of the characters it was pure magic. I mean think about the beginning -- you start off on the tram to work; business as usually. The player, like Gordon, only knows what he's been told and knows absolutely nothing of the impending doom. It's fucking genius.
HL2 furthered those characters beyond what I expected, which is exactly what a sequel should do, but it just couldn't have had as much of an impact as HL1 did.
HL2 furthered those characters beyond what I expected, which is exactly what a sequel should do, but it just couldn't have had as much of an impact as HL1 did.
Bringing up the arguement that it came out in 1998 doesn't justify the point of "good" storytelling either.
Xenogears came out in 1998 as well and guess what it had a MUCH deeper story than half life could ever dream of. To this day psychological analysis of its characters, connections to religion through its symbolism and philosophical implications are still being discussed.
Xenogears came out in 1998 as well and guess what it had a MUCH deeper story than half life could ever dream of. To this day psychological analysis of its characters, connections to religion through its symbolism and philosophical implications are still being discussed.
MightyHedgehog
Member
That's not a fair comparison. A JRPG coming from Square, who is known for their big epic stories and relatively well-defined characters leave the player little to no room to do anything in between pre-designed and written story bits. The focus in those games isn't on the visceral experience, as it is in FPS games.Klone.K said:
The story itself is inconsequential. The techniques used to tell the story are what make HL important to gaming, amongst the dozen other things HL did to revolutionize the medium.karasu said:
Bitches respect.
It is almost a mathematical certainty that HL is better than whatever game you consider the best. It's that good.
Red Scarlet
Member
I'm playing this right now! But the 'hud_fastswitch 1' thing isn't doing what Warcock said. 
I wanted it to be set so when I just hit the scroll wheel that it not only selects the next/previous weapon but also chooses it so I don't have to press fire to choose the next weapon, just roll the scroll wheel. Any help?
I wanted it to be set so when I just hit the scroll wheel that it not only selects the next/previous weapon but also chooses it so I don't have to press fire to choose the next weapon, just roll the scroll wheel. Any help?
Druz
Member
Red Scarlet said:I'm playing this right now! But the 'hud_fastswitch 1' thing isn't doing what Warcock said.
thats... what it does...
Red Scarlet
Member
Druz said:
It's not working when I set it; it goes to the next weapon but I still have to fire to bring it out. When I played Counter-Strike a long time ago, I had an option set that I just had to roll the scroll wheel up or down and it'd automatically go to the next/previous weapon AND bring it out without having to press the fire key/button first. Ever since 1.6 I wasn't able to get it to go how I used to have it.
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
IoCaster said:
I came here to post this.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
For people playing Half-life 1 for the first time now, there's no way you can really appreciate all that it did new and revolutionary for the FPS genre
Before Half-life came out this was the state of FPS games:
- There was a serious push from devs & consumers alike to the thought that FPS single player games were on the way out. That multiplayer was the only thing worthwhile for the genre.
- Single Player campaigns were still stuck in Doom-esque level designs. You had a random ass set of levels through together with the only real puzzles being "Find the Red Key"
- No attempt of any narrative in FPS. You mission = kick ass!!11! and kill things
- Enemy AI was still essentially enemy see's you then chases you until it dies
- Ammo & weapons just randomly floated in areas
- No Friendly AI characters existed. It was only you and enemies
What Half-life brought to the FPS genre when it came out was the following:
- Through the use of scripted events it immersed gamers in ways never done before. Just the intro alone set the tone for the rest of the game. You saw the complex through the track, got a feel for the place, interacted with the scientests & guards, and actually was there when the shit fell apart. On top of that the scripted events later on pieced together what was going on (crab killing scientist, black ops killing scientists, monsters wiping out guys, etc)
- It had amazing level design that not only made sense to a "real world" (no hidden strange doors, or passthrough walls,etc) but it all connected. It wasn't like quake, where at one point you're in a castle and the next level in some hell zone. It worked your way through the whole complex but it was seamless. It wasn't Area 2-3, etc.
- Black Op AI was something never seen before. Enemy ai that would work together, and if you tried the Doom "hide behind the corner and wait for them to mindlessly run into my bullets" tactic you got a grenade dropped in your lap instead.
- Boss fights that actually had more puzzle and strategy than "shoot the big gun at it"
- Amazing sound design for the times
- Co-op characters that would help you out throughout the game. Granted they didn't last long but it was a first.
- Enemy vs Enemy battle scenes. Finally there were times where you'd just wait for the aliens & soldiers duke it out first before entering the fray
- Weapons, ammo & health packs that were placed in areas that weren't as random and crazy. Sure it wasn't completely realistic. But you got health from the wall stations, or from crates. Same with weapons & ammo. It wasn't just rotating and floating in the corner of a hallway.
- Not action all the time. It wouldn't just have pure action all the time, it knew how to crank it up and then slow things down for a while. And the puzzles in the game actually made sense. And they'd use signs and visual queues to aid the gamer as to what to do w/o any tool tips or some abstract voice jumping in to tell you what to do next.
The problem is all these things are taken for granted now. For example Halo really started with the Half-life template and then put their own spin on it. Evolved it some, and did their own thing (although level design would never be topped).
Before Half-life came out this was the state of FPS games:
- There was a serious push from devs & consumers alike to the thought that FPS single player games were on the way out. That multiplayer was the only thing worthwhile for the genre.
- Single Player campaigns were still stuck in Doom-esque level designs. You had a random ass set of levels through together with the only real puzzles being "Find the Red Key"
- No attempt of any narrative in FPS. You mission = kick ass!!11! and kill things
- Enemy AI was still essentially enemy see's you then chases you until it dies
- Ammo & weapons just randomly floated in areas
- No Friendly AI characters existed. It was only you and enemies
What Half-life brought to the FPS genre when it came out was the following:
- Through the use of scripted events it immersed gamers in ways never done before. Just the intro alone set the tone for the rest of the game. You saw the complex through the track, got a feel for the place, interacted with the scientests & guards, and actually was there when the shit fell apart. On top of that the scripted events later on pieced together what was going on (crab killing scientist, black ops killing scientists, monsters wiping out guys, etc)
- It had amazing level design that not only made sense to a "real world" (no hidden strange doors, or passthrough walls,etc) but it all connected. It wasn't like quake, where at one point you're in a castle and the next level in some hell zone. It worked your way through the whole complex but it was seamless. It wasn't Area 2-3, etc.
- Black Op AI was something never seen before. Enemy ai that would work together, and if you tried the Doom "hide behind the corner and wait for them to mindlessly run into my bullets" tactic you got a grenade dropped in your lap instead.
- Boss fights that actually had more puzzle and strategy than "shoot the big gun at it"
- Amazing sound design for the times
- Co-op characters that would help you out throughout the game. Granted they didn't last long but it was a first.
- Enemy vs Enemy battle scenes. Finally there were times where you'd just wait for the aliens & soldiers duke it out first before entering the fray
- Weapons, ammo & health packs that were placed in areas that weren't as random and crazy. Sure it wasn't completely realistic. But you got health from the wall stations, or from crates. Same with weapons & ammo. It wasn't just rotating and floating in the corner of a hallway.
- Not action all the time. It wouldn't just have pure action all the time, it knew how to crank it up and then slow things down for a while. And the puzzles in the game actually made sense. And they'd use signs and visual queues to aid the gamer as to what to do w/o any tool tips or some abstract voice jumping in to tell you what to do next.
The problem is all these things are taken for granted now. For example Halo really started with the Half-life template and then put their own spin on it. Evolved it some, and did their own thing (although level design would never be topped).
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
sixthsubset said:
That's exactly why the cutscenes are the way they are, instead of you watching them. It's made to immerse you into the world. You don't have to sit with your controller in your hands and wait to play, you are living in the present as they talk to you. It feels like you are on this grand adventure and often times, seems like you are playing in a movie.
I never said CoD4 had more. Even though I didn't mention it, the nuke explosion is something really innovative. Been a while since Valve has done something that profound. Every series could grow if took some things from other games. Opp Force is like my golden standard, and I can remember every detail of some of the more prominent battles, instead of you know...I drove thirty miles to a safe house. :/
I'm not sure what the OP knows what a story is.
Half-Life 1 has quite an interesting story. It's just has no persistent characters besides the one you play. It also doesn't beat you over the head with it.
The story is so tightly integrated into the game, the OP didn't even notice it.
Half-Life 1 has quite an interesting story. It's just has no persistent characters besides the one you play. It also doesn't beat you over the head with it.
The story is so tightly integrated into the game, the OP didn't even notice it.
Admittedly true. Welcome to video game stories.karasu said:
abstract alien
Member
I played it when it was released and this was the main thing that really impressed me.gketter said:
gketter said:
When you saved every single Barney, they were a nice little army.
Sadly, there's a jumping puzzle just up that staircase, bye bye, my little army. I was impressed that you can gather this many in any one place..
If only AI had progressed since.abstract alien said:
I always felt that the Marines in HL1 felt more smart than the Combine in HL2.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Sciz said:
ah damn, i think you're right. I just replayed Half-life 1 over the weekend and i was so used to seeing that in modern FPS i didn't recall those instances in Doom. They mostly were all hunting you down.
Demigod Mac
Member
Half-Life's storytelling is the experience itself. Memorable locations. The player's actions are part of the story. It's different than games that go to cutscenes and voice-overs.
Druz
Member
gketter said:
I'm still impressed with Half Life 1 AI. I have never seen anything like it since... listening to radio chatter will tell you exactly what they're going to do, whats happening, how they're feeling. My favorite trick they do(Besides the black ops people that flip around like ninjas and are awesome) is the grenade a wounded soldier drops and quickly runs away. Clever shits.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Druz said:
Yeah, I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed with the Combine AI in HL2. Their radio chatter is much more unintelligible and for all of Source Engine's impressive path finding and advanced "danger assessment" AI, the Combine have a habit of being such easy targets that they've died before they can show off all their cool moves.
About the only place the Source Engine's AI impressed me is in the battle at the Bed & Breakfast in Episode 2, on your way up to White Forest Base, because you're trapped inside. You can't just run out and shred all the Combine, you have to stay inside, take cover, and shoot them at a distance. That, and the Hunters are a lot more aggressive when it comes to being tactical.
TheHeretic
Banned
Sega1991 said:
The combine basically stood there whilst you shot them to death. They didn't even react to the bullets, they just stood there until they reached that magical damage point and then they collapsed in a heap.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Sega1991 said:
My disappointment was nothing lived up to that one great HL2 AI tech demo they showed where it was set in ravenholm and the zombies were attempting to break into the building you were in. So you used a door to block them, and then found alternate paths and shit. That demo was awesome!