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half life 2: is it REALLY that good? (also, linearity in games)

J

jtb

Banned
I'm a big fan of valve. I love steam, portal is probably my game of the generation for all kinds of reasons, I am waiting with bated breath for HL3, etc.

anyways, I've been replaying a bunch of old source games (since it's the only shit that'll run on my MBA) and I booted up HL2 again, and... it's been pretty damn underwhelming. I'm not talkng about the graphics, since they look great (especially for a 9 year old game). but the gameplay just feels stale... the gunplay is pretty average, I'm not a big puzzle guy (though they're not bad either), and holy shit, it is SO linear.

maybe I'm just done with the whole scripted-narrative thing in games because it seems so... single-use. and where I used to be impressed by a lot of the various tricks Valve employed in it, now I see through all the smoke and mirrors and... again, the linearity. which wouldn't be so much of an issue if the gameplay was more interesting than it was, but really, even the gravity gun (by far the game's most interesting gimmick) is only put to good use with Ravenholm.

I get scripted moments—you need to move the player along in order to tell a coherent narrative and the HL2 narrative is strong, definitely. but when the whole game is literally herding you from room to room into a narrow corridor, where there are zero options at your disposal, zero alternate paths, etc. it feels like a chore, honestly. where does the "game" part come into the equation if the player's interactions with the world, with the game mechanics are so incredibly limited?

I'll have to replay ep2 some time since I remember there were some pretty great open levels but HL2... I guess Ravenholm is pretty awesome but beyond that... meh.

am I alone on this? has COD retroactively ruined HL2 for anyone else or is there just something wrong with me?
 
Half-Life 2 is pretty dated imo, I mean it's still fun to romp through, but the gunplay is very underwhelming.

Episode 1, 2, and Black Mesa: Source, however, is great.
 
I don't think that it is, but I also don't think it's because it's linear. Simply put, I don't think Valve really polished any of the systems/mechanics they put in the game to the point where they actually feel genuinely fun to toy with. There are also plenty of sections I just find plain bad (anything involving driving, the tower defense part with the ants..).

It's still pretty good though, and has an amazing atmosphere and art design.
 
While I agree that HL2 is from a different and aging era of games, I definitely think that what it did when it came out was pretty mind blowing.

Linear games aren't bad though. Bad linear games are bad.
 
I didn't think it was that good, but then again I don't think gravgun gimmickry is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Best element for me was the atmosphere.

I think some of the responses in this thread highlight exactly why Half-Life 3 has been such a long time coming---and who knows how much longer? That sort of linear shooter is dead. Rising from the ashes we have shooters that are either team-based competitive with little to no campaign, or open world singleplayer/co-op experiences with lots of RPG mechanics.
 
I tried playing it about three years ago and didn't like it much. The aesthetic was cool, though. The visuals, music, and tone were all great.
 
Yeah, for me HL2 was very overrated. Crappy AI, enemies respawn behind Your back and gunplay is mediocre. I was also felling asleep in driving sections. Fortunately i bought HL2 for CSS, so i didnt care :)
NOLF or Republic Commando were much better FPS.
 
I still don't understand why people say the narrative is strong. The story is very minimal and not interesting at all IMO.
 
I play through Half Life 2 and its episodes like every month or so and they still hold incredibly well in my eyes since the first time I've played them in the 360 version of The Orange Box like 5 years ago.

I disagree about the herding though. Sure, the games are very linear but I like how the level design flow in between sections and the progression almost always feels organic (As in, I figured this path is the most logical to take but in the end it's the only one). I love how Half-Life mixes combat, puzzle-solving, traversal and storytelling. It never feels boring or stale. The game is constantly switching up different gameplay mechanics and scenarios.
 
Ermac said:
I still don't understand why people say the narrative is strong. The story is very minimal and not interesting at all IMO.
Click to expand...

I think the narrative (how it tells the story) is effective and much stronger than the story itself.
 
As a piece of history, Half Life 2 is one of the greats when compared to many others of its time. Modern FPS games have taken the torch and ran with it but it's almost to a fault. Some have absolutely improved on various aspects of the game and on my most recent replay I found myself noticing way too many things that irked me (pandering via Alyx, complete linearity, etc) but it still can't stop me from loving it. There's still so much it does right compared to the games of today.

This was the king. It's no small wonder that Valve is really struggling to overcome all of the great things that have happened as a result of HL2's greatness from 9 years ago.
 
I replayed some of Half-Life 2 a few days ago and it still holds up incredibly well.

I've missed shooters with mobility. You don't spend 80% of the time sitting behind cover. Even in the most linear of portions, you still have some movement to flank or attempt a different route.

It has a bit of wonkyness that the Episodes fixed, but it's still a really great shooter.
 
The Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2 arc is still one of if not my favourite shooters. I can go back, play, and enjoy it effortlessly. For me, I do like the gunplay and encounter design, and the linearity does not bother me. Most importantly, and where I think Valve's shooter design has always excelled, to me every room, encounter, and progression through environments feels like one unique area after the other. I feel the game is almost completely devoid of monotonous stretches through truly samey environments and set pieces, and instead always seems to introduce some quirk to the level design (even if it's simply the navigation of a structure or spawn points of enemies) and interesting vista worth investigating and interacting with.

Where other shooters feel like stretch->awesome set piece->stretch->awesome set piece, Half-Life to me is one big long awesome set piece, numerous memorable scenarios, encounters, and levels chained together back-to-back with no slump in between.

I get that people won't share that opinion, but that's honestly why I love the series so much, and why I still think Half-Life 2 + Episodes remains one of the most brilliantly designed and executed single player first person shooters ever made.

*shrug*
 
EatChildren said:
The Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2 arc is still one of if not my favourite shooters. I can go back, play, and enjoy it effortlessly. For me, I do like the gunplay and encounter design, and the linearity does not bother me. Most importantly, and where I think Valve's shooter design has always excelled, to me every room, encounter, and progression through environments feels like one unique area after the other. I feel the game is almost completely devoid of monotonous stretches through truly samey environments and set pieces, and instead always seems to introduce some quirk to the level design (even if it's simply the navigation of a structure or spawn points of enemies) and interesting vista worth investigating and interacting with.

Where other shooters feel like stretch->awesome set piece->stretch->awesome set piece, Half-Life to me is one big long awesome set piece, numerous memorable scenarios, encounters, and levels chained together back-to-back with no slump in between.

I get that people won't share that opinion, but that's honestly why I love the series so much, and why I still think Half-Life 2 + Episodes remains one of the most brilliantly designed and executed single player first person shooters ever made.

*shrug*
Click to expand...

I was contemplating a big post but I was sleepy and this one says what I was thinking perfectly.
 
I found HL2 very boring. I got to the water level and had to quit for months because I couldn't force myself to play through it. Finally got the gravity gun recently, and it is sort of getting better. But I'm not terribly good at shooters so meh.
 
KKRT00 said:
Yeah, for me HL2 was very overrated. Crappy AI, enemies respawn behind Your back and gunplay is mediocre. I was also felling asleep in driving sections. Fortunately i bought HL2 for CSS, so i didnt care :)
NOLF or Republic Commando were much better FPS.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize HL2 had respawning enemies. The AI seemed ok to me.
 
jtb said:
I get scripted moments—you need to move the player along in order to tell a coherent narrative and the HL2 narrative is strong, definitely. but when the whole game is literally herding you from room to room into a narrow corridor, where there are zero options at your disposal, zero alternate paths, etc. it feels like a chore, honestly. where does the "game" part come into the equation if the player's interactions with the world, with the game mechanics are so incredibly limited?
Click to expand...

This sounds like a matter of scope. I don't mean to defend Half-Life 2 much, but it sounds like you're heavily associating player choice with mere stage geometry when there are so many brilliant games that have more linear stage layouts than Half-Life 2's. Having even the most basic of stage layouts can be a non-issue when the decisions you have to make in the stage are engaging enough. And this over-focus on stage layouts is something I see a lot of on enthusiast forums.

Not that the act of fighting Half-Life 2's enemies is particularly enjoyable.
 
jtb said:
where does the "game" part come into the equation if the player's interactions with the world, with the game mechanics are so incredibly limited?
has COD retroactively ruined HL2 for anyone else or is there just something wrong with me?
Click to expand...

Are we really at a point where people are struggling to consider titles that are on a set path and don't give the player full creative control over how they solve a problem as games? And how is Call of Duty, which took the linear set piece style of games to a more extreme level, able to retroactively ruin Half-Life 2? Did people really hate those campaigns so much that they can't find enjoyment in anything but the most choice-rife games?

I realize it's kind of lame to respond to a thread asking a question with a bunch of questions, but I'm having trouble with some of the points brought up here.
 
I never saw what was great about it.

Always felt highly over rated to me, figured it had to be due to the original that might have been better.
 
Yeah I mean sure, you are basically driving/boating along linear passages. But the exploration comes from having the freedom to stop, explore the locations on the way. You can drive past a lot of the most interesting content in Half Life.

I agree with the general sentiment about Half Life's tools in combat. They're very stale, even Episode 2 feels a bit drab despite the expertly realised hunters and strider creatures. They have to mix up basically everything in a future game except the crow bar to please me.
 
EatChildren said:
The Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2 arc is still one of if not my favourite shooters. I can go back, play, and enjoy it effortlessly. For me, I do like the gunplay and encounter design, and the linearity does not bother me. Most importantly, and where I think Valve's shooter design has always excelled, to me every room, encounter, and progression through environments feels like one unique area after the other. I feel the game is almost completely devoid of monotonous stretches through truly samey environments and set pieces, and instead always seems to introduce some quirk to the level design (even if it's simply the navigation of a structure or spawn points of enemies) and interesting vista worth investigating and interacting with.

Where other shooters feel like stretch->awesome set piece->stretch->awesome set piece, Half-Life to me is one big long awesome set piece, numerous memorable scenarios, encounters, and levels chained together back-to-back with no slump in between.

I get that people won't share that opinion, but that's honestly why I love the series so much, and why I still think Half-Life 2 + Episodes remains one of the most brilliantly designed and executed single player first person shooters ever made.

*shrug*
Click to expand...
Agreed. The moment-to-moment design of the campaign is still second-to-none as far as I'm concerned.
 
EatChildren said:
The Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2 arc is still one of if not my favourite shooters. I can go back, play, and enjoy it effortlessly. For me, I do like the gunplay and encounter design, and the linearity does not bother me.

..

Where other shooters feel like stretch->awesome set piece->stretch->awesome set piece, Half-Life to me is one big long awesome set piece, numerous memorable scenarios, encounters, and levels chained together back-to-back with no slump in between.

...

*shrug*
Click to expand...



Exactly this. It's one of the few series I can go back to repeatedly and never be bored of it. It's a masterpiece, imho.
 
I thought Half-Life 2 was an average game then and I think it's an average game now.

I hated Half-Life 1, though.
 
Ermac said:
I still don't understand why people say the narrative is strong. The story is very minimal and not interesting at all IMO.
Click to expand...

Valve games don't exactly rely on exposition as heavily as other titles. Valve's narrative-driven games make use of ambient storytelling, which essentially means that various indicators and clues are delivered via the environment rather than traditional cutscenes or, in the case of Half-Life in particular, closed-off moments where you throw crates around the place while somebody talks to you. You get out what you put in, in other words.
 
Tain said:
This sounds like a matter of scope. I don't mean to defend Half-Life 2 much, but it sounds like you're heavily associating player choice with mere stage geometry when there are so many brilliant games that have more linear stage layouts than Half-Life 2's. Having even the most basic of stage layouts can be a non-issue when the decisions you have to make in the stage are engaging enough. And this over-focus on stage layouts is something I see a lot of on enthusiast forums.

Not that the act of fighting Half-Life 2's enemies is particularly enjoyable.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think I worded that poorly. that's where the poor (imo) gunplay comes in. I'm fine with just sticking you vs. five enemies in a room and telling the player: solve this problem, but you have to give the player interesting tools to solve that problem. I don't think HL2 gives you enough compelling tools (boring guns, and picking up the occasional 2x4 w/ the gravity gun) to make up for the limited stage layout. If that makes any sense.
 
Nope, I recently replayed HL2, EP1 and slowly making my way through EP2 again, and I'm shocked at how well it still holds up. So many details that I missed in previous playthroughs. It is working on so many different levels. Sure the graphics are not anything by today's standards, and the gunplay wasn't the game's strong suit, but it's still fun. Who knows, maybe you are just not in the mood to play this particular type of game at this time. It has happened to me before where I find faults and complain about things, but then I let some time pass and come back to remember why I thought it was great in the first place.
 
as far as like super linear "experience" type shooters go, half life 2 is one of the very few that actually makes the formula worth a damn. the base shooting gameplay is kinda eh, but it's got plenty of variety and good pacing. like eatchildren said, each area feels unique and it flows pretty organically. plus the art design is fantastic. they actually know when to dial things back a bit and it creates a kind of living vignette where little details become more apparent the closer you look. there's all sorts of striking imagery in the opening moments if you check out the right spots, but it's not always immediately jumping out at you.

compare with bioshock infinite which is rather one note in it's art direction. all big statues and giant spotlights with a poster or two in the background reminding you not to trust the nigra so you don't forget columbia's racist. it's a pretty picture greeting you once you enter the room but once you start to look a little closer, there's nothing else to it. it's very artificial
 
Half-Life 2's minimal story is why the story is so good.

Aside from the opening, it doesn't get in the way very often but is well presented and gives context to the gameplay's subtle ebb and flow and overall difficulty curve.

It doesn't overpower the gameplay while still digging its hooks into you to keep you moving.
 
giapel said:
It's magnificent. The backlash and "dated" comments on seminal videogames is often ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Complaining that the game loses its impact once you're privy to where and when the scripted events will occur is like complaining that the Sixth Sense is stupid once you know the twist. In both cases the game was designed to be experienced fresh, to take you to a new and amazingly realized world where engrossing events were happening. Scripted events worked magnificently to create this. The fact that you now know how they'll play out is irrelevant. The "problem" is your memory, and I dare say that City 17 is among the most convincing and cohesive worlds in all of gaming. That definitely hasn't changed one bit.
 
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