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Halo 3: ODST and Halo: Reach

Quick question Halo question. Are Halo 1 and 2 ethat you can pick up on XBLA mulated well? I'm thinking that I'll revisit the trilogy before ODST. Trying to expand my horizons again.
 
Sir Fragula said:
We who are outside of games development tend to have a simplified view of how hard these technical issues are to solve. That said, I honestly can't begin to fathom what possible reason there is to *not* have a matchmaking system for campaign.
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Mind you, I'm extrapolating what Urk said earlier in the thread: "Firefight is built on top of campaign tech. There's no Matchmaking."

Some others from Bungie have made mention of this in interviews as well. I'm assuming the reason they point that out is because matchmaking and campaign tech are not compatible, and it would take a lot of effort to add matchmaking into the "campaign tech". You're right in that I have *zero* idea what this entails. I'm just taking Bungie's explanation at face value: doing so would be hard. Bungie doesn't shy from hard things - saved films and online four-player co-op are, from what I gather, incredibly hard to do (or they'd be more common). So I'm guessing it was both hard to do and something they didn't have time to do.

Yeah, I'm making assumptions. And I know what happens when you make assumptions. :(
 
GhaleonEB said:
Mind you, I'm extrapolating what Urk said earlier in the thread: "Firefight is built on top of campaign tech. There's no Matchmaking."

Some others from Bungie have made mention of this in interviews as well. I'm assuming the reason they point that out is because matchmaking and campaign tech are not compatible, and it would take a lot of effort to add matchmaking into the "campaign tech". You're right in that I have *zero* idea what this entails. I'm just taking Bungie's explanation at face value: doing so would be hard. Bungie doesn't shy from hard things - saved films and online four-player co-op are, from what I gather, incredibly hard to do (or they'd be more common). So I'm guessing it was both hard to do and something they didn't have time to do.

Yeah, I'm making assumptions. And I know what happens when you make assumptions. :(
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Yeah, but I have to assume there's a logical flow behind the current matchmaking system that is:
1) Find matches.
2) Make match.
3) Load map.
4) Start game.

Clearly campaign would currently just use the last two, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where the actual technical difficulty in assembling the same sort of system for campaign comes from. I mean, what does "campaign tech" even mean in this context? You're not going to be interacting with the campaign - you're interacting with the mechanism for populating the bucket of players who get launched into the campaign. Surely every aspect of the matchmaking system is handled in the lobby area?
 
IIRC, Halo 1 is mulated pretty perfectly, but mulated Halo 2 campaign might still have that visual glitch that looks like a flashbang went off. Gotta restart to get rid of it when it happens.
Nothing game-breaking, imo.

Edit: Er.. Yeah. What mrgone said. I remember split-screen Halo 1 suffering epic slowdown.
 
Of course the option would be good. Having the option to use a BR in the game would be nice to, doesn't mean it's a big deal. Anyone that's willing to put up with randoms in that kind of co-op needs to start sending folks friend requests.

What I am concerned about is the length of these sessions. This definitely does not seem like a mode where you can jump in, play a session or two during lunch and be done.

If these stats are to be believed, which I think they must be since some are blurred out and if they just wanted to craft a mock page they wouldn't have included such things, then it's going to take a long time to complete firefight games.

On that stat page it says he was only playing on heroic but he is also soloing or going in with only 2 players. He's also a Bungie employee so those that really play that mode extensively would probably survive much longer. If a hardcore group of 4 players can survive legendary for more than 30 minutes it'll be way too long. Chances are people will have things come up and have to leave or lose connection because there's not drop-in/out features.


Question: On that stat page I linked to above they have a variety of skulls enabled in each game. I was under the impression that one could only enable the silver skulls, which I believe there are 4 of, but that page has some games with 5-8 skulls. It also seems like the number of skulls isn't dependent on how long the game took, I assume the number of skulls increases over time, so what's up? Do you think there is more customization options than they led on or am I getting my hopes up?
 
emulated, I think. There was a bunch of slowdown when I tried them out on the 360 a couple of years ago. It wasn't horrible, but I ended up just playing them on a regular xbox.
 
mrgone said:
emulated, I think. There was a bunch of slowdown when I tried them out on the 360 a couple of years ago. It wasn't horrible, but I ended up just playing them on a regular xbox.
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I think Halo: CE runs pretty well on the Xbox 360 (from the disc, though, not sure about the download-able version). Halo 2 runs worse (texture problems).
 
Dax01 said:
I think Halo: CE runs pretty well on the Xbox 360 (from the disc, though, not sure about the download-able version). Halo 2 runs worse (texture problems).
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Halo 1 was pretty good, aside from the framerate dips in the warthog in firefights. I don't think I played far enough into Halo 2 to see any texture issues. Halo 1 could've been improved with a BC update between then and now, but I have the feeling this was right around the time MS abandoned the idea of backwards compatibility :(
 
So based on the Date of the Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta which was in May of 2007 (the 15th till the 6th of June) followed by the actual release date of Halo 3 in September of 2007, it isn't crazy to assume that Halo Reach will follow a similar pattern in which the Beta will probably occur around May, June-ish of 2010 with the game is scheduled to "Fall" in the Fall of 2010. Does that sound somewhat accurate?
 
mrgone said:
Halo 1 was pretty good, aside from the framerate dips in the warthog in firefights. I don't think I played far enough into Halo 2 to see any texture issues. Halo 1 could've been improved with a BC update between then and now, but I have the feeling this was right around the time MS abandoned the idea of backwards compatibility :(
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I put in Halo 1 on my 360 this week and it did download an update. The warthog sure slides around though.
 
Sir Fragula said:
Yeah, but I have to assume there's a logical flow behind the current matchmaking system that is:
1) Find matches.
2) Make match.
3) Load map.
4) Start game.

Clearly campaign would currently just use the last two, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where the actual technical difficulty in assembling the same sort of system for campaign comes from. I mean, what does "campaign tech" even mean in this context? You're not going to be interacting with the campaign - you're interacting with the mechanism for populating the bucket of players who get launched into the campaign. Surely every aspect of the matchmaking system is handled in the lobby area?
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One would think so. And my ideal, very simple solution to the situation is to have four very simple matchmaking lobbies: one for Easy, one for Normal, one for Heroic and one for Legendary difficulties.

Easy and Normal are available to everyone. You gain access to Heroic and Legendary hoppers by beating the campaign on those difficulties (Legendary unlocks both). That ensures only people with at least some skill are in the harder lobbies. No individual ranks - this a team game. Option to boot for team killing turned on. Evenly balance the maps in the mix. Match based on connection speed.

Bam.

But what do I know.
 
The Lamonster said:
Can I do Firefight alone?

If not, I'm calling shenanigans.
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This is what I want to know. This, and how many firefight maps will be available.

If its a good number of maps, and I can have a good experience in Firefight solo or with one other player than I'll bite at $60.

Otherwise its all about the single player and that can wait for bargain bin and/or rental status.
 
NullPointer said:
This is what I want to know. This, and how many firefight maps will be available.

If its a good number of maps, and I can have a good experience in Firefight solo or with one other player than I'll bite at $60.

Otherwise its all about the single player and that can wait for bargain bin and/or rental status.
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I'm sure you can play it by yourself, whether its fun or not remains to be seen. You can also play Horde by yourself. :lol

As for the maps, in the new IGN preview they stated that a total of 10 Firefight maps can be unlocked.
 
GhaleonEB said:
One would think so. And my ideal, very simple solution to the situation is to have four very simple matchmaking lobbies: one for Easy, one for Normal, one for Heroic and one for Legendary difficulties.

Easy and Normal are available to everyone. You gain access to Heroic and Legendary hoppers by beating the campaign on those difficulties (Legendary unlocks both). That ensures only people with at least some skill are in the harder lobbies. No individual ranks - this a team game. Option to boot for team killing turned on. Evenly balance the maps in the mix. Match based on connection speed.

Bam.

But what do I know.
Click to expand...

That'd be pretty good, too bad Bungie didn't(or couldn't since it really might've hurt the game in the end) make it so that Halo 3's multiplayer couldn't be played unless you beat the game once on at least Normal.

Oh, and because in my head it sounds funny(but will get failhorned)..

GhaleonEB
knows his self-worth.
(Today, 03:51 PM)

Oh, and I just now realized that we're pretty close to ODST's release. This year sure has gone by fast. Though, I can't complain, I think I'm hyped up more for ODST than I have been for Halo 2 or Halo 3. :lol
 
DancingJesus said:
I'm sure you can play it by yourself, whether its fun or not remains to be seen. You can also play Horde by yourself. :lol
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Yeah. That's the kind of limited experience I'm expecting actually. Which is why I'm hesitant to pick this up at full price til I know more. I only got the 50th level Horde achievement this last weekend, took this long for four of us to get together at the same time, with the same game. Was worth the wait though - Horde is fucking awesome.

DancingJesus said:
As for the maps, in the new IGN preview they stated that a total of 10 Firefight maps can be unlocked.
Click to expand...

Thanks - looks like a good selection.
 
Ok, I've read at least 5 pages (or so) and didn't see this brought up. So please excuse me if I missed it.

QUESTION(S): Will we be able to install the maps from the MP disc? Or do we need to have the disc in the tray?
 
LosDaddie said:
Ok, I've read at least 5 pages (or so) and didn't see this brought up. So please excuse me if I missed it.

QUESTION(S): Will we be able to install the maps from the MP disc? Or do we need to have the disc in the tray?
Click to expand...

You need the disc in the tray for any installed game. So yes you do need the disc inside the 360.

If you are asking if you can access the multiplayer maps from the first disc by installing the second, then no you can't.
 
LosDaddie said:
Ok, I've read at least 5 pages (or so) and didn't see this brought up. So please excuse me if I missed it.

QUESTION(S): Will we be able to install the maps from the MP disc? Or do we need to have the disc in the tray?
Click to expand...

Have to have the Halo 3: Mythic (Halo 3 MP disc from the ODST package) in the tray.
 
With Halo Reach multiplayer beta so close shouldn't we by now have more information about the game? Maybe even a screen or at least some info on what engine they'll be using. Unless of course I'm out of the loop and a reasonable amount has been revealed or a reveal has been dated already.
 
Kintaro said:
Quick question Halo question. Are Halo 1 and 2 ethat you can pick up on XBLA mulated well? I'm thinking that I'll revisit the trilogy before ODST. Trying to expand my horizons again.
Click to expand...

Halo 1 runs fine single-player, but when you start adding in more people on a single screen, the game slows down a bit.

Halo 2 runs the same way. I pretty much only use my 360 to play Halo 2 on XBL now and it's fine.
 
joey_z said:
With Halo Reach multiplayer beta so close shouldn't we by now have more information about the game? Maybe even a screen or at least some info on what engine they'll be using. Unless of course I'm out of the loop and a reasonable amount has been revealed or a reveal has been dated already.
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It's not that close though, we aren't touching the beta till 2010.
 
joey_z said:
With Halo Reach multiplayer beta so close shouldn't we by now have more information about the game? Maybe even a screen or at least some info on what engine they'll be using. Unless of course I'm out of the loop and a reasonable amount has been revealed or a reveal has been dated already.
Click to expand...

How the hell is it so close? We won't get it until Spring 2010 at the earliest and it's not like the game is in its Beta stages right now and they're just sitting on it for 6-8 months.
 
DancingJesus said:
You need the disc in the tray for any installed game. So yes you do need the disc inside the 360.

If you are asking if you can access the multiplayer maps from the first disc by installing the second, then no you can't.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't clear enough.

Basically, I'm wondering if you can install the MP maps from the ODST disc and then use my Halo3 disc to play online (in order to play on all the maps). I thought the ODST maps were just the DLC maps.

I'm probaby wrong :lol
 
Striker said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXrYSEOg3Ro

Forget that? That was well before a year from Halo 3's final release in Septmber in '07.
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That's because they were only hyping one game. They have to finish up with ODST hype before they start releasing info about Reach.

They also did a teaser for Reach much like that was a teaser for Halo 3.

LosDaddie said:
Yeah, I wasn't clear enough.

Basically, I'm wondering if you can install the MP maps from the ODST disc and then use my Halo3 disc to play online (in order to play on all the maps). I thought the ODST maps were just the DLC maps.

I'm probaby wrong :lol
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No you can't do that. I'm not sure why you would want to do that though since the second ODST disc has all 24 maps on it.
 
DancingJesus said:
That's because they were only hyping one game. They have to finish up with ODST hype before they start releasing info about Reach.

They also did a teaser for Reach much like that was a teaser for Halo 3.
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You didn't mention ODST in your initial post, and the Halo: Reach "teaser" was nothing close to the Halo 3 E3 2006 trailer.
 
dolemite said:
Question about the firefight mode, can I play with random people or do I need friend invites like in the campaign?
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No matchmaking, so the only way to play FireFight with other people is to invite your friends to the lobby and vise versa.
 
Striker said:
You didn't mention ODST in your initial post, and the Halo: Reach "teaser" was nothing close to the Halo 3 E3 2006 trailer.
Click to expand...

If Bungie started showing off a new graphics engine and new gameplay of Reach, more casual Halo players would just skip ODST and wait for that instead.

They have to be meticulous on how they release information with two Halo projects in the mix.

Regardless, we will not see anything Reach till post ODST.

Also, Ghaleon you may want to add a Frequently Asked Questions bit to the OP. That way people don't repeatedly ask the same things over and over.
 
DancingJesus said:
No you can't do that. I'm not sure why you would want to do that though since the second ODST disc has all 24 maps on it.
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Ok thanks!

I thought the ODST disc only had the DLC maps, not the maps that shipped with Halo3 too. Glad you cleared that up for me.



EDIT: Alright....so unless I want to play some Halo3 campaign again, there's no reason to keep Halo3 once I buy ODST, correct?
 
LosDaddie said:
Ok thanks!

I thought the ODST disc only had the DLC maps, not the maps that shipped with Halo3 too. Glad you cleared that up for me.



EDIT: Alright....so unless I want to play some Halo3 campaign again, there's no reason to keep Halo3 once I buy ODST, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes you are correct.
 
DancingJesus said:
If Bungie started showing off a new graphics engine and new gameplay of Reach, more casual Halo players would just skip ODST and wait for that instead.

They have to be meticulous on how they release information with two Halo projects in the mix.

Regardless, we will not see anything Reach till post ODST.

Also, Ghaleon you may want to add a Frequently Asked Questions bit to the OP. That way people don't repeatedly ask the same things over and over.
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That's exactly why they haven't revealed more, but you vaguely forgot to mention this to the poster above asking how come we haven't seen more about Reach.

With Reach dropping next Fall, I can't see any reason why we won't or cannot see something by November or December, at the latest. They've been working on this project for quite a while, and ODST's team have been done many months ago.
 
Striker said:
That's exactly why they haven't revealed more, but you vaguely forgot to mention this to the poster above asking how come we haven't seen more about Reach.

With Reach dropping next Fall, I can't see any reason why we won't or cannot see something by November or December, at the latest. They've been working on this project for quite a while, and ODST's team have been done many months ago.
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Yea maybe, it might be another selling point for ODST come the holiday rush. "Hey look at how cool Reach is" "You'll get to play this soon in the beta if you buy ODST!".

Or they could just wait till next year :P.


EDIT: Also, new Destructoid Preview is up for the new maps:

http://www.destructoid.com/preview-halo-3-s-mythic-map-pack-2-143990.phtml
 
Since we all know there will be unlockable characters in firefight; anyone else think Dare will be one of those unlockables in firefight?- Which means rocking a fresh suit of recon in firefight....mmm can't wait.
 
Dax01 said:
I thought ODST went gold already?
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Well I meant the start of manufacturing... I don't believe that has started yet? Usually for big games it's almost a month before the game's retail date. So during that time, beware of leaks.
Although, if a Reach Trailer is with ODST, I wouldn't mind that type of leaked vid =p
 
Kibbles said:
It's only a matter of a few weeks away from ODST going gold... :D
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Um, I'm pretty sure ODST finished development a while ago.

Ssparks said:
Since we all know there will be unlockable characters in firefight; anyone else think Dare will be one of those unlockables in firefight?- Which means rocking a fresh suit of recon in firefight....mmm can't wait.
Click to expand...

The achievements that leaked on YouTube a while ago confirmed Dare as unlockable.
 
Ssparks said:
Since we all know there will be unlockable characters in firefight; anyone else think Dare will be one of those unlockables in firefight?- Which means rocking a fresh suit of recon in firefight....mmm can't wait.
Click to expand...
That's almost a given if not already revealed. It's safe to say you'll be able to play as all the ODST in Firefight and we already know of Johnson. I'm really hoping they have a ton of extra people though, kinda like the SSB of Halo. ODST is a game made for existing Halo fans, they should go all out with the fan service. It's a real missed opportunity if they don't.

Kibbles said:
Well I meant the start of manufacturing... I don't believe that has started yet? Usually for big games it's almost a month before the game's retail date. So during that time, beware of leaks.
Although, if a Reach Trailer is with ODST, I wouldn't mind that type of leaked vid =p
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Seems to me the smartest thing to do would be to unlock the video much like they'll unlock the beta. Not have it on the disc at all. I would love to see more Reach footage though, the sooner the better.
 
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