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Halo head Bonnie Ross: Diversity attracts diversity.

And feminism attracts gaming trash. Which is why ever since 343 took the helm of Halo it has sunk. And you wonder why when there head studio is woke?
 
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Ixiah said:
Forced Diversity absolutely results in a loss of Quality.
They should rather hire on Impartiality and get whoever is the best for the Job they need, no matter what ethnic Group or Gender they are.
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Agreed. It's basically censorship. Because they can't say anything that could be interpreted as 'offensive' and thus it kills creativity. Also because they have to ensure there's a diversity quota. When creativity isn't at the forefront your game is most likely going to be crap.
 
Line manager: Hank and Bobby just made an amazing engine for Halo 6!

Ross: we're going with the one by the Hispanic cleaning ladies we promoted, push the release out to 2021.
 
People should recruited for their CV and habilitations and ideas, that's what makes good games. Off tópic, a great video from Mounty Phyton that reminds me all this sjw stuff...
 
ThatOneGrunt said:
What is wrong with some you? What is there to be offended about regarding this statement? Diversity doesn't subtract from the quality of the game. People aren't being fired or rejected just because they're white or non-ethnic. She's just talking about accepting all talent without race or gender being an equivalency. One of you said there needs to be another war or recession to get people to be more concerned about real things yet you're hear being angry over a simple statement. You guys are blowing this out of proportion and it reflects stupidity over anyone offended by this.
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Sorry for having a discussion, buddy.
We'll run it past you next time, yeah?

Nice mischaracterization of people being "offended" by the statement.
How is talking about things in a calm and, mostly, sensible manner "blowing this out of proportion".

Oh noes, one guy said something crazy about needing a war or recession! Whatever shall we do,
Fucksakes. Get over it.

Keep on attacking that strawman, I guess.
 
ThatOneGrunt said:
You're saying diversity results in bad or broken games? That is powerfully dumb.
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O oagboghi2 says:
"I don't care if some programmers are women or some animators are black"
"No one gives a shit if the team is diverse. I care if the game is good."
"Bethesda touts their diversity, and they released Fallout 76."
"Bioware couldn't shut up about Diversity, and they just a released a game that bricks consoles."

ThatOneGrunt ThatOneGrunt interpretation:
"So you're saying diversity results in bad or broken games"

Yes. Someone here is powerfully dumb.

How can your only contributions to the thread be willful twisting and misrepresenting and basically disingenuous bullshit and yet you honestly seem to think it's other posters who are in the wrong here?

You must surely know that you're doing it?
 
Arguments that start with "so you're saying" always fair well.

485A639E00000578-0-image-a-7_1516461498126.jpg
 
Honestly all this news does is make me scared for Halo infinite and the next 10 years that we have Halo.

I want to play a fantastic game, and not have it hindered because some feminist wants to infuse her vision of diversity in a franchise THAT HAS NEVER STRUGGLED WITH DIVERSITY OR GREAT CHARACTERS! But i will admit a Halo RPG like Mass effect would be pretty sweet but it has too be like Mass effect 1 and 2.

Come on man it's to early for me to be frustrated, no one cares about this virtue signaling just make a great game, Christ.
 
Her comments have nothing to do with what's being discussed in this thread. She's basically saying that they're an equal opportunity employer. With the way the world is, emphasizing that is important. Otherwise you run into mass hyperbolic hatred.

On the flipside, you have people that take something small and blow it out of proportion, as if she's some evil feminist trying to accomplish her agenda. I don't thinks this is the case. Be reasonable.
 
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angelic said:
Obviously it does, woke studios are repeatedly making crap games. Results prove it.
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Uncharted 4 wasn't a crap game. And Druckmann spent a lot of time talking about how he wanted to infuse the game with diversity.

Man it's scary how misguided how some of you guys are responding to this. Diversity doesn't factually result in negatives. And i doubt 343 is turning people away because they don't fit an image of diversity.
 
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ThatOneGrunt said:
Uncharted 4 wasn't a crap game. And Druckmann spent a lot of time talking about how he wanted to infuse the game with diversity.

Man it's scary how misguided how some of you guys are responding to this. Diversity doesn't factually result in negatives. And i doubt 343 is turning people away because they don't fit an image of diversity.
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I think you're misunderstanding. Forced Diversity is the argument.

Diversity on its own is a positive. Haven't seen anyone arguing against that. Go and reavaluate your comment.
 
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Shmunter said:
I think you're misunderstanding. Forced Diversity is the argument.

Diversity on its own is a positive. Haven't seen anyone arguing against that. Go and reavaluate your comment.
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I don't think you're paying close enough attention then to some of the comments here.
 
Sycomunkee said:
Her comments have nothing to do with what's being discussed in this thread. She's basically saying that they're an equal opportunity employer. With the way the world is, emphasizing that is important. Otherwise you run into mass hyperbolic hatred.
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Don't they though? Is she though? Is it though? Do you though?

On the flipside, you have people that take something small and blow it out of proportion, as if she's some evil feminist trying to accomplish her agenda. I don't thinks this is the case. Be reasonable.
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I feel like it is bringing up something irrelevant that nobody asked for. It's like suddenly blurting out, "I didn't murder a man and bury his body in the backyard under the rose bushes." Everybody is just sort of like, "uh, what? I'm just going to pop into the back for second and check the rose bushes. You stay here."
 
One of the things I found more interesting is she said people want to play as characters that look like themselves. I see this mentioned often with the whole push for diversity.

Does anyone really care if the character looks like them? This is never something I've looked for. Most of the things being done in video games can't be done in real life, so I've always liked following different characters through unique worlds. Race, gender, etc. have never really mattered as long as the characters are well written.
 
oh, look, another studio pandering to the SJWs.

by all means give people options but this spineless backing down to these ever offending upset people or using them to get some good PR is cheap.
 
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ThatOneGrunt said:
I don't think you're paying close enough attention then to some of the comments here.
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You sure you haven't? People are arguing against hiring candidates against a quota, not pure merit. And thus disputing the potential compromise to the team and final project.

If the best candidates are women or minorities, that's what we want.
 
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Sqorin Hammerfarf said:
Don't they though? Is she though? Is it though? Do you though


I feel like it is bringing up something irrelevant that nobody asked for. It's like suddenly blurting out, "I didn't murder a man and bury his body in the backyard under the rose bushes." Everybody is just sort of like, "uh, what? I'm just going to pop into the back for second and check the rose bushes. You stay here."
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What are you talking about bringing up something nobody asked for?! It's a quote from a 60 Minutes interview about women in tech!! They specifically asked her the question!
 
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JORMBO said:
One of the things I found more interesting is she said people want to play as characters that look like themselves. I see this mentioned often with the whole push for diversity.

Does anyone really care if the character looks like them? This is never something I've looked for. Most of the things being done in video games can't be done in real life, so I've always liked following different characters through unique worlds. Race, gender, etc. have never really mattered as long as the characters are well written.
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It's Wokenomics. An opportunity to sell outfits and hats, tie it together with progressive ideology to give it grounding. Wokes love it because it's "representation" and will defend the money grub, to blind by their devout belief in their ideology, not realising they are pawns of the corp.

It's highly transparent
 
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JORMBO said:
One of the things I found more interesting is she said people want to play as characters that look like themselves. I see this mentioned often with the whole push for diversity.

Does anyone really care if the character looks like them? This is never something I've looked for. Most of the things being done in video games can't be done in real life, so I've always liked following different characters through unique worlds. Race, gender, etc. have never really mattered as long as the characters are well written.
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EXACTLY

Now if she's hinting at an RPG halo where people can create the character they want , then i'm all for it.

But if she's saying that statement in a way where people will only be able to respond to a character that looks like them, it tells me how out of touch she and many other people are.

I don't need someone to look like me, in order to listen, or be in awe of how inspirational/motivational that person is. Especially with fictional characters , a good character will be one that well written, thats all there is too it. masterchief is a 7 foot demi-good who slaughters millions of aliens , i can't relate to him at all, but he's my favorite character in gaming.
 
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JORMBO said:
One of the things I found more interesting is she said people want to play as characters that look like themselves. I see this mentioned often with the whole push for diversity.

Does anyone really care if the character looks like them? This is never something I've looked for. Most of the things being done in video games can't be done in real life, so I've always liked following different characters through unique worlds. Race, gender, etc. have never really mattered as long as the characters are well written.
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It's a weird way to phrase it. "Characters who look like me".

Like if you said "my friend looks like David Beckham" then I wouldn't expect your friend to just be some random white dude.
Unless "looks like" just means "is the same race and gender as".

It seems like almost just like a lazy justification for something that doesn't actually need a justification.
Character customization options can be fundamentally fun and also allow the player to have some kind of unique or tailored experience even if it's just cosmetic.
When it's framed like "people want to play as characters that look like them" it just comes across as so needy and pathetic.

Like what kind of person looks at Uncharted 4 and goes "this guy doesn't look like me so I can't buy it"?

I think that's where I am comfortable describing something like this as "virtue signalling".
If you want to put full character customization in your game then crack on. It's been done many many times before.
Same for protagonists that are not Gruff White Male Protagonist™. If you want them in your game then please put them in. Again, it's been done many times.
Making it a big talking point comes across as a bit weird actually.
Trying to "justify" it by saying players just want characters that look like them doesn't really ring true.

If a game gives me character options then I will go with what looks cool to me. Not try to recreate myself in game.
It's actually funny even to think of people trying to get their avatar to look just like them and getting frustrated.
 
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ThatOneGrunt said:
What are you talking about bringing up something nobody asked for?! It's a quote from a 60 Minutes interview about women in tech!! They specifically asked her the question!
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She was asked, "How has the fact that you're now running the show there affected the game?"

She replied, "I think diversity does attract diversity. So I think we have a more diverse team than in the past, which I think the team actually really appreciates. And I also think that diverse teams do kind of create a more diverse output, diverse thinking, and innovation on where you're going."

She used some variation of the word "diverse" SIX times in three sentences (including three times in one sentence!)... and didn't mention THE GAME once, nor anything in particular the she does while "running the show".

So, the answer to "how has your leadership affected Halo" is "diversity!". Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some flower beds to check for bodies.
 
Diversity did hurt Halo 5. They tried to diversify media by spreading the story out through movies, web sites and an audio logs. They tried to diversify the cast by adding diverse team members, which itself wasn't the problem. Failing to develop them into anything close to being interesting was a huge issue. People just didn't want that out of a Halo game. They wanted the Chief and Cortona. Pushing the Chief to a smaller role and opening with Locke was simply dumb. Most players didnt even know who he was and didn't give a shit about him.

In the interview the one thing that really stood out is when Bonnie said that she was trying to evolve story telling in games. They tried and it fail miserably in H5. It's something that can be improved upon but I don't think she is the one to do it since she comes off very right brained to me. back on point, I think Halo 5 issues kind of parallel the current problems in the industry as a whole. It's forcing big changes for their own sake without taking into consideration it's effect. Anything that takes the focus away from the game itself will affect quality.
 
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Sqorin Hammerfarf said:
She was asked, "How has the fact that you're now running the show there affected the game?"

She replied, "I think diversity does attract diversity. So I think we have a more diverse team than in the past, which I think the team actually really appreciates. And I also think that diverse teams do kind of create a more diverse output, diverse thinking, and innovation on where you're going."

She used some variation of the word "diverse" SIX times in three sentences (including three times in one sentence!)... and didn't mention THE GAME once, nor anything in particular the she does while "running the show".

So, the answer to "how has your leadership affected Halo" is "diversity!". Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some flower beds to check for bodies.
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She was answering questions in a segment about "cracking the code for girls in tech". The story was never just about Halo. It was literally about diversity.
 
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JORMBO said:
Does anyone really care if the character looks like them? This is never something I've looked for. Most of the things being done in video games can't be done in real life, so I've always liked following different characters through unique worlds. Race, gender, etc. have never really mattered as long as the characters are well written.
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Yes. Its why I like 3rd person over first person. 3rd person games are like playing through a story or playing a character more than a first person game. First person games just aren't immersive because I'm probably just a white dude.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
It's funny how some jobs get pigeon-holed as "where's the diversity?", when other jobs (like any that has to do with getting your hands dirty like construction/contracting/mining/garbagemen etc....) nobody ever seems to give a shit almost all of the employees are guys, and probably mostly non-Asian. That's likely because people look down at these jobs as kind of slobby..... (even if they are perfectly fine jobs that can pay decent).

Also, despite probably 90% of surgeons being the typical middle aged or old white guy, nobody seems to care about diversity and messing around with high end medical needs....... I guess when your life is on the line people suddenly are OK with having the most experienced and qualified.

Talk about being greedy fucks for self-interest.
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Absolutely this, it's that statement I always think back to, "When you are in dire need of a good lawyer are you going to hire someone that's a minority/woman to promote diversity and their work being validated? Or are you just going to go find the best goddam lawyer you can? Regardless of race/sex?"

Like if someone is going to repair your roof, you aren't looking for the most diverse teams -- you are looking for the best team... "Please show me the race and sexes of those working on my house!"
 
Focus on talent instead of diversity and you might finally make a Halo game worthy of the series' former glory. If the best talent is diverse, great. If.
 
With her in charge, Halo has gone from being one of top franchises in the entire industry, right up there with Zelda and Mario, to second tier at best. All three of the main games she has overseen (4,5, and MCC) have had serious problems and did real damage to Halo. Halo is the only reason her studio, and her job, exists, and they are screwing it up. She rarely if ever gets called out for it, instead fielding softball questions about her woke credentials like this.
 
diffusionx said:
With her in charge, Halo has gone from being one of top franchises in the entire industry, right up there with Zelda and Mario, to second tier at best. All three of the main games she has overseen (4,5, and MCC) have had serious problems and did real damage to Halo. Halo is the only reason her studio, and her job, exists, and they are screwing it up. She rarely if ever gets called out for it, instead fielding softball questions about her woke credentials like this.
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Every single game launched with 343 at the helm has been absolute shit. Even Halo 1 remake.
 
Forced diversity does nothing good for anyone. First of all it sends the message that minorities can't get the job based on merit which i would think would be insulting. Secondly, there is a possibility you are taking jobs away from the more qualified candidate. How about we just go with best person for the job regardless of sex/race!
 
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JORMBO said:
One of the things I found more interesting is she said people want to play as characters that look like themselves. I see this mentioned often with the whole push for diversity.

Does anyone really care if the character looks like them? This is never something I've looked for. Most of the things being done in video games can't be done in real life, so I've always liked following different characters through unique worlds. Race, gender, etc. have never really mattered as long as the characters are well written.
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I never understood people that demand characters look like their real-life selves. The ones that "can't relate" to characters that don't match their gender, color, orientation, etc have a lot more problems than the diversity of the cast in video games.

I enjoy playing as Nathan Drake. I enjoy playing as Laura Croft. Or Ellie. Or Gerralt. Or Zelda. Or Donkey Kong.

But never Luigi with his stupid high jump.

When I have the option to create my own character, I tend to build something new. Why would I want to play myself in a game when it's a lifetime of playing as myself I'm trying to escape from? I'm typically a gender benderr. Chicks usually have better hair and clothing options. Men have cooler beards and mustaches. Now in the age of wokeness, games (like those from Ubi) have gotten rid of the "male/female" option and instead use a "body type" scale. So I can be a chick with nice hair, nice clothes, and a nice beard. Win/Win/Win :messenger_kissing_smiling:
 
I dunno seems like the games have never been worse.

Why not focus on making a good game with the best people instead of forcing a diverse team.
 
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