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Halo head Bonnie Ross: Diversity attracts diversity.

Bungie's Halo - focus on the military and create a badass, faceless killing machine to defend humanity.
Diversity/soy boy Halo - throw away that military core, explore the human side of our killing machine and make his emotional journey with an AI the core of our games.
 
Forces diversity does nothing good for anyone. First of all it sends the message that minorities can't get the job based on merit which i would think would be insulting. Secondly, there is a possibility you are taking jobs away from the more qualified candidate. How about we just go with best person for the job regardless of sex/race!
The two things aren't mutually exclusive. We can hire the best people, and select from as wide a pool as possible so that everyone is given a chance.
 
"Across Xbox, we are really deliberate in making sure that we have opportunities for people to play the way they want to play," Ross tells 60 Minutes correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi. "And that does impact diversity and gender, what you look like, what your skin color is, what size body you have. And we try and make sure that you can play how you want to play."

When your idea of diversity is shallow and only skin deep then obviously your examples of diversity will be only skin deep.

Congrats, you discovered character creation.
 
With her in charge, Halo has gone from being one of top franchises in the entire industry, right up there with Zelda and Mario, to second tier at best. All three of the main games she has overseen (4,5, and MCC) have had serious problems and did real damage to Halo. Halo is the only reason her studio, and her job, exists, and they are screwing it up. She rarely if ever gets called out for it, instead fielding softball questions about her woke credentials like this.

It's like moving into a building after it's been already built and the hard work is done and asking "why doesn't my office have a view"?
 
Imagine how different the world would be if we as a people decided to focus on the content of a person's character and the merits of their skills versus surface characteristics that are ultimately irrelevant and beneficial to no one.
 
If this emerging diverse audience is soooooo big and soooooo important why are they so hesitant to make new stuff for them?
Cuz capital consumerism isn't about taking risks it's about making money. It's easier to make money from shit people already know about. Why do you think we get a COD every year?
 
Imagine how different the world would be if we as a people decided to focus on the content of a person's character and the merits of their skills versus surface characteristics that are ultimately irrelevant and beneficial to no one.

It's the result of lack of interest in other people's depth. People in general don't care about the inner world of another person, nor do they develop a inner world themselves: everything revolves around the persona/the ego/our masks. If you have no inner life, you cannot find it in others. Empathy, creativity, patience, respect for another person's boundaries...all these human qualities are in decline because we've become far too cerebral and absorbed into this vacuum of mass culture. That's why mass culture has never been more prevalent, there is so much sameness and mediocrity, and why most people lose their individuality to become part of the herd. As long as you go along to get along, and "be nice" you're fine.
 
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Naturally. What eludes me is why, instead of just creating new franchises for the new audience, they are shoehorning it into existing franchises.

Because it's easier to shoe-horn in diversity picks and gimmicks into already established games that have a much wider audience. You snag the already established audience the games currently have who are loyal to the brand, even if some people disagree with the changes, the studios just pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on the easy diversity inclusion, even if the game's market demographic doesn't even widen. Hell, even Disney is trying it with a black Ariel in the new Little Mermaid film, and Marvel's recent failed attempts with it's "gender-bending" of various heroes. Why bother actually putting some effort into appealing to other people with new media and IP's if you can just be lazy and re-purpose stuff and get a small smattering of brownie points?
 
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https://www.gamesradar.com/halo-was-almost-over-343-boss-bonnie-ross-reinvigorated-it/
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So brave. Promoting diverse character choices for players in a game where you wear a helmet and full suit of armor.
And on top of that it's a first person shooter so for all that character's race, religion, sex, etc, the character is just a floating gun.
 
I'm still waiting on proof that diversity is inherently good and something to strive for. Until i see that, i'll maintain that meritocracy is the way to go
 
I'm still waiting on proof that diversity is inherently good and something to strive for. Until i see that, i'll maintain that meritocracy is the way to go
There is nothing wrong with diversity if happens naturally, for example for Bloodborne music they brought up western composers for their talents not just for sake of just having "diversity".
 
Halo ended with Reach and Bungie. 343i can make a decent looking game, I'll give them that, but once you play it, you realize it's just a hollow shell.
 
There is nothing wrong with diversity if happens naturally, for example for Bloodborne music they brought up western composers for their talents not just for sake of just having "diversity".
Oh i'm not saying diversity is wrong. I'm just saying that the notion that it's inherently good should at least have some supporting evidence. So far it seems we're just supposed to accept that it's something great that we should strive for. I'm skeptic, even more so when it seems they're trying to make meritocracy a bad word
 
I never understood people that demand characters look like their real-life selves. The ones that "can't relate" to characters that don't match their gender, color, orientation, etc have a lot more problems than the diversity of the cast in video games.

When I have the option to create my own character, I tend to build something new. Why would I want to play myself in a game when it's a lifetime of playing as myself I'm trying to escape from? I'm typically a gender benderr. Chicks usually have better hair and clothing options. Men have cooler beards and mustaches. Now in the age of wokeness, games (like those from Ubi) have gotten rid of the "male/female" option and instead use a "body type" scale. So I can be a chick with nice hair, nice clothes, and a nice beard. Win/Win/Win :messenger_kissing_smiling:

It's easy to show diversity with a skin colour though or a simple sex swap. They are easy visuals rather than drawing diversity paralells between more nuanced experiences.

I am currently playing FFXV and to be honest as a white male, I feel that I identify with all the male protags. I too, am part of the monachy. I have all the same hair problems as these guys and I just fucking hate it when all my black leather clothes dont get the respect I deserve. Fingerless gloves never went out of fashion and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. I also have a classic car in the back that I sometimes crack out and cruise round my country in with no obligations. Literally, I cannot image a more comprehensive character than I've been given. Except maybe Aiden Pearce or Michael from GTA V. But then I probably also realise Trevor also represents me as well.

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The issue of relation and representation has been weaponised by no lifers and very disturbed individuals on the internet. It's also been conflated with laz insertion and scattergun characters. See, as a child or person with real issues, it probably is nice to be able to see better treatment of characters with augments, certain disabilities etc. But there is a difference - you're not going to be expecting to build a Fifa pro player and then be able to give them Oscar Pistorius style blades, or a limp.
 
I'm still waiting on proof that diversity is inherently good and something to strive for. Until i see that, i'll maintain that meritocracy is the way to go
This
Why is it good to forecehire diverse staff, when hiring based on skill makes more sense?
 
This
Why is it good to forecehire diverse staff, when hiring based on skill makes more sense?

There's nothing wrong with a "diverse" anything.

A team however should be assembled based on merit and inherent talent to produce the best results.

It shouldn't matter who you are but communists are inherently racist and can only think like such.


Bonnie Ross and 343 are hacks.
 
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I'm still waiting on proof that diversity is inherently good and something to strive for. Until i see that, i'll maintain that meritocracy is the way to go

WE DON'T HAVE MERITOCRACY NOW! It's NEVER existed!!!
 
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As long as you understand that "Diversity" is a code word for chaotic mess then shes right. Its fascinating that almost every game company that has latched on to the cult of "diversity is our strength" has tarnished their brand and reputation. Mass effect, battlefield, now halo. Can anybody think of any other brands that have been ruined by this scourge?
 
As long as you understand that "Diversity" is a code word for chaotic mess then shes right. Its fascinating that almost every game company that has latched on to the cult of "diversity is our strength" has tarnished their brand and reputation. Mass effect, battlefield, now halo. Can anybody think of any other brands that have been ruined by this scourge?

So you are going to ignore the ones that said the word "diversity" and are still succeeding huh?
 
This
Why is it good to forecehire diverse staff, when hiring based on skill makes more sense?

Silicon Valley is largely white with second largest demographic being Asian/east Asian.

Homegrown non-white Latinos and blacks aren't hired very often, even with very good skills for the jobs they're applying for.

The information I'm going off of (from memory) is like 5 years old so I may not be up to date.

But like mckmas8808 mckmas8808 said... Merit, in this country, has almost never existed for so-called minorities... And that goes especially for Silicon Valley and many tech companies.
 
When I hear people praising diversity (we all know what it really means,) it makes me want to bash their fucking skulls in.
 
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Bungie's Halo - focus on the military and create a badass, faceless killing machine to defend humanity.
Diversity/soy boy Halo - throw away that military core, explore the human side of our killing machine and make his emotional journey with an AI the core of our games.
That's always been at the core of the games.
 
This topic made me watch Robin Gaming's video on diversity and after watching it, I 100% agree with him. If it's natural, it's great and works but when it's forced, it just fails and backfires.
 
That's always been at the core of the games.
Nope Cortana/Chief was a side plot at best in Bungie's games. In all the games they made there is literally only one mission focused on Cortana and not the war. I don't know how you can think the emphasis on their relationship is the core of Bungie's games.
 
Nope Cortana/Chief was a side plot at best in Bungie's games. In all the games they made there is literally only one mission focused on Cortana and not the war. I don't know how you can think the emphasis on their relationship is the core of Bungie's games.
It's core to Halo 3 at least, where the majority of the game is spent trying to rescue Cortana, and fulfil your promise to her made at the end of Halo 2 .

And the visions you see of her reinforce her precarious mental state and explore her relationship with The Chief.

Watch this scene, and tell me it has nothing to do with exploring "the human side of our killing machine".

 
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It's core to Halo 3 at least, where the majority of the game is spent trying to rescue Cortana, and fulfil your promise to her made at the end of Halo 2 .

And the visions you see of her reinforce her precarious mental state and explore her relationship with The Chief.

Watch this scene, and tell me it has nothing to do with exploring "the human side of our killing machine".


Halo 3 was all about finishing the war, Cortana was a side story like I said. The majority of the game isn't spent trying to rescue her you might need to replay the game and see what the actual objectives are in each mission, and those visions are the definition of side story material.
 
A smart company is open to people from all different backgrounds to maximize the probability of attracting the best developers to their team, common sense. That is however something completely different from hiring a diverse staff for the sake of diversity. Pushing to create diverse teams most likely leads to wrong people getting hired because they have the right attributes or background and not because they were the best candidate. Stupid as hell.
 
As someone who works in tech, I have to listen to this corporate PR speak day in and day out (usually it's nothing more than lip service). Assuming she's acting on this instead, it could explain why Halo is in its current state. That fact of the matter is 343 (studio she's in charge of) has taken Xbox's strongest exclusive and reduced its relevancy on each iteration; Bonnie Ross should be concerned w/hiring talented developers, not PR quota check boxes.
 
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And how do you explain the NBA and the NFL filled with blacks?.

It wasn't always filled with "blacks". But now that things have changed, I'd say the NBA for years didn't treat the international basketball player with the full respect that he deserved either.

- There was a terrible belief that European basketball players were soft.
- Many believed that tall (6'10" and above) Euro players needed to stop shooting 3s and put their tall butts in the paint and post up. So they didn't draft them as much.
- And for the NFL the white running backs and wide receivers aren't treated fairly at all. Too many coaches and front office managers don't think white guys are athletic enough for those positions, even though they are proven wrong by the New England Patriots.


Meriotrocity doesn't exist in sports either. It's okay to realize this.

As someone who works in tech, I have to listen to this corporate PR speak day in and day out (usually it's nothing more than lip service). Assuming she's acting on this instead, it could explain why Halo is in its current state. That fact of the matter is 343 (studio she's in charge of) has taken Xbox's strongest exclusive and reduced its relevancy on each iteration; Bonnie Ross should be concerned w/hiring talented developers, not PR quota check boxes.

So how do you guys explain Gears then?
 
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Halo 3 was all about finishing the war, Cortana was a side story like I said. The majority of the game isn't spent trying to rescue her you might need to replay the game and see what the actual objectives are in each mission, and those visions are the definition of side story material.
I would compare with a game like Gears of War 3. The objective is to end the war, like both previous games. But the only way you can do that is to rescue your father and fire the weapon he built. Just like the only way to end the war with the Flood and the Gravemind is to use Cortana's index. The majority of the objectives you actually complete have little to do with the overall goal (power this generator, find this spare part, locate more fuel, defend this lobby). But re-uniting with your father is one of the key emotional arcs of the game.

So, if for you, meeting your father is just a side story, then ok. But tonally, Halo 3 was already exploring the human side of Master Chief, even if it wasn't always the focus. Just like the Gears of War series has plenty of emotional moments, even if it is a bunch of jacked up dudebros chainsawing monsters in half.
 
Why does diversity always mean black? Every other race other than white are minorities also. Not to mention various cultural differences are not always skin deep.
 
gotta Say Microsoft is pretty smart, if they say hiring the best, no media outlets of forums will bother to post anything, if you say focus on diversity though, press will give them some free advertisements and forums will keep posting them to generate more heated debates.
It's impossible for me to deny the positives from doing this as you pointed out. I do think it carries the risk of turning off more existing customers than it attracts new ones though. For me personally, I find it odd and a bit worrisome that I know very little about the game after a lackluster reveal, yet the dev is promoting its diversity in making it already. It feels like a cheap pop in wrestling, when some low tier superstar gets the crowd to cheer for them by shouting out the name of the city.
 
Just make a good game.

It doesn't matter if the protagonist happens to be a teenage girl/black dude/goat/piece of bread, people will play it if it is a good game.
The political messaging and constant checking of diversity boxes is just tiring.
 
It wasn't always filled with "blacks". But now that things have changed, I'd say the NBA for years didn't treat the international basketball player with the full respect that he deserved either.

- There was a terrible belief that European basketball players were soft.
- Many believed that tall (6'10" and above) Euro players needed to stop shooting 3s and put their tall butts in the paint and post up. So they didn't draft them as much.
- And for the NFL the white running backs and wide receivers aren't treated fairly at all. Too many coaches and front office managers don't think white guys are athletic enough for those positions, even though they are proven wrong by the New England Patriots.


Meriotrocity doesn't exist in sports either. It's okay to realize this.



So how do you guys explain Gears then?


You are right! Professional sports wasn't always filled with "blacks" because people were racist and had a "white only quota" instead of a "talent quota". Once teams put talent first, diversity of skill set was superior to diversity of melanin in your skin or genitalia between your legs. International NBA and NFL players didn't deserve the same respect many years ago because they weren't as good, it really is that simple and "it's okay to realize this" (that mild condescension). Now international teams are better and producing better players hence the increase in foreign talent in the NBA, NFL etc.

The best diversity is diversity of skills, diversity of ideas, diversity of strengths etc. If those diversities come from various cultures or ethnic groups, then so be it! But to force it, is complete nonsense and quite frankly somewhat inherently prejudice against the groups you are trying to help. Love that soft bigotry of low expectations.

Think about how silly all the forced diversity is on the left today when you say it in the most basic terms. "We need diversity of breast tissue, diversity of penises and vaginas, diversity of melanin in skin. This is just as absurd as sexists/racists hating people for the same reasons.
 
I'd suggest the most important form of diversity is more diversity of ideas rather than of skin pigmentation, but I'm sure they would all gasp and clutch their pearls.
 
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This is a human brain.

Can anyone tell who it belongs to? No.

Brains look the same, but they are different.

If you have 12 white people or 12 people of every race under the sun, their ideas will be different anyway.

Stupid identity politics advocates claim that if you have a group of white men, they will all think the same.

In reality, you are probably going to get an atheist, a christian, a jew, an athlete, a fat slob, a metalhead, a socialist, a right-wing, a person who likes jazz,.

Individuals are different... so every group is diverse in terms of thought. Identity politics wants us to think that "if you belong to a certain color or demographics, you all think the same, you ain't diverse" and that's complete bullshit.

If you have an alien, a women, a gay person, a straight man, a black man, or whatever, you will still have a wide array of thoughts and feelings, just like you would have with a group of supposedly white men. Diversity is a fucking fallacy.
 
You are right! Professional sports wasn't always filled with "blacks" because people were racist and had a "white only quota" instead of a "talent quota". Once teams put talent first, diversity of skill set was superior to diversity of melanin in your skin or genitalia between your legs. International NBA and NFL players didn't deserve the same respect many years ago because they weren't as good, it really is that simple and "it's okay to realize this" (that mild condescension). Now international teams are better and producing better players hence the increase in foreign talent in the NBA, NFL etc.

The best diversity is diversity of skills, diversity of ideas, diversity of strengths etc. If those diversities come from various cultures or ethnic groups, then so be it! But to force it, is complete nonsense and quite frankly somewhat inherently prejudice against the groups you are trying to help. Love that soft bigotry of low expectations.

Think about how silly all the forced diversity is on the left today when you say it in the most basic terms. "We need diversity of breast tissue, diversity of penises and vaginas, diversity of melanin in skin. This is just as absurd as sexists/racists hating people for the same reasons.

I agree with the bolded. Sometimes the diversity in ideas and strengths show up in a diversity of race, religion, gender, etc. Sometimes those streams cross and it's primarily due to the person's background and/or culture than leads to the diversity of ideas. I agree to force it is stupid though. But it's also stupid to argue against diversity.

And no you are wrong about international NBA players and their history in the NBA. For many years their actual skills were dimisinished, because the league didn't "value" the skills that Euro players had. Many thought the America style of basketball was the "right" way to play. Not realizing that a blend of the international style was going to be the future. It's not that Euro players just got better.
 
It wasn't always filled with "blacks". But now that things have changed, I'd say the NBA for years didn't treat the international basketball player with the full respect that he deserved either.

- There was a terrible belief that European basketball players were soft.
- Many believed that tall (6'10" and above) Euro players needed to stop shooting 3s and put their tall butts in the paint and post up. So they didn't draft them as much.
- And for the NFL the white running backs and wide receivers aren't treated fairly at all. Too many coaches and front office managers don't think white guys are athletic enough for those positions, even though they are proven wrong by the New England Patriots.


Meriotrocity doesn't exist in sports either. It's okay to realize this.



So how do you guys explain Gears then?

You are not answering my question, is it reasonably to assume that the blacks in the NFL and NBA deserve their job or not?.
 
You are not answering my question, is it reasonably to assume that the blacks in the NFL and NBA deserve their job or not?.

Yes, they deserve their jobs. That's an obvious answer. But it's the not full picture. That specific point only tells part of the story.
 
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