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Halo Lore Thread

Wouldn't the Forerunners have wiped out AH anyway even without Flood interference? I get the impression that the technological difference between the two races was significant.

I thought it was hinted/stated in Halo 4 that AH was fucking up the Forerunners at the cost of losing their territory to the Flood, so from that I suppose AH was superior? Also regarding Halo 4, how was it again was humanity imbued with Reclaimer-status to activate the Halo array? I know it had something to do with the Librarian but I can't recall.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Wouldn't the Forerunners have wiped out AH anyway even without Flood interference? I get the impression that the technological difference between the two races was significant.

The humans were exhausted and depleted by the Flood.

We'll never know. They were tactically smarter in some ways than the forerunners.

In a boxing match it's reach versus stamina.

I thought it was hinted/stated in Halo 4 that AH was fucking up the Forerunners at the cost of losing their territory to the Flood, so from that I suppose AH was superior? Also regarding Halo 4, how was it again was humanity imbued with Reclaimer-status to activate the Halo array? I know it had something to do with the Librarian but I can't recall.


Librarian felt they ultimately had more potential than the stagnating Forerunners. Chief is the personification of that.


So, are there any notable differences between Ancient Human Tech and Forerunners, aesthetics or otherwise?

Forerunners used hard light and all that for weapons,

Did the humans use something different?


Humans figured out Forerunner tech in less than a decade. We're ridiculously good at pattern recognition and reverse engineering. Like a virus in that regard.
 

nillapuddin

Member
such an excellent looking bookshelf.

I did the illustration for Human Weakness in that compilation, like, forever ago. It wasn't a very good illustration, but its cool that I have something Halo related published... lol.

Much thanks, and that's really awesome, didn't know they had illustrations cause I never opened it lol!

Liar! I see some crease wear!

Hey now.
First, I just noticed that lol
On Contact Harvest right?
Idk how that got there, must have made a tactical error
 

Detective

Member
The humans were exhausted and depleted by the Flood.

We'll never know. They were tactically smarter in some ways than the forerunners.

In a boxing match it's reach versus stamina.




Librarian felt they ultimately had more potential than the stagnating Forerunners. Chief is the personification of that.





Humans figured out Forerunner tech in less than a decade. We're ridiculously good at pattern recognition and reverse engineering. Like a virus in that regard.

The forerunner obtained their technology from the precursors right? Or did they invented all that?

The ancient human, where did they get that technology from? Who taught them? And where they more advanced then the now humans? :)

Thanks for being with us Frankie :)
 
Wouldn't the Forerunners have wiped out AH anyway even without Flood interference? I get the impression that the technological difference between the two races was significant.

They also made a point to note that Humans were not able to access the Domain (Or the Forerunners were not allowed to know if they did, though we were never led to believe they did). This confused the Didact immensely, as all Forerunner knowledge was basically obtained through the Domain. Humans definitely had the power of surprise and unpredictability on their side.

The humans were exhausted and depleted by the Flood.

We'll never know. They were tactically smarter in some ways than the forerunners.

In a boxing match it's reach versus stamina.

Librarian felt they ultimately had more potential than the stagnating Forerunners. Chief is the personification of that.

Humans figured out Forerunner tech in less than a decade. We're ridiculously good at pattern recognition and reverse engineering. Like a virus in that regard.

Sweet, sweet lore nuggets from Frankie!

Like a virus.. Humans are Flood 2.0 confirmed!
 

Random17

Member
The humans were exhausted and depleted by the Flood.

We'll never know. They were tactically smarter in some ways than the forerunners.

In a boxing match it's reach versus stamina.
How did the San 'Shyuum fit into this? Were they basically getting bullied into an "alliance" by AH, or were they also respectable opponents? They didn't seem to have anywhere near as a significant role as AH did in the war.

The reason I got this impression is that before all of this reverse engineering occured, it seemed as if the only reason AH had a fighting chance was due to the Precursor artifacts scattered on their worlds. Stuff like those time capsules/bubbles/time locks, slipspace technology, ship design and even firearm design were seemingly inferior compared to the Forerunners.

(I remember the Didact noting his surprise at the discovery of those time capsules used by the humans, but he still mentioned that they were inferior???)
 

Tzeentch

Member
Humans figured out Forerunner tech in less than a decade. We're ridiculously good at pattern recognition and reverse engineering. Like a virus in that regard.
Humans are using quite a bit of Forerunner tech but it seems mostly superficial in terms of understanding it. Also helps that human AI constructs are more-or-less compatible with the ecumene's ancilla-driven systems.
 

Captain Friendo

Neo Member
How was the human empire circa 100, 000 years ago built up and evolved? I mean we know post halo array because that's real world history up to the 21st century.
 
I've a question regarding the Flood. Do the Flood still exist in the galaxy ie contained within Halos (just like Halo: CE)? Or did all the Flood get on High Charity and were destroyed on the Ark?

Edit: Also regarding Forerunners, was Halo 4 the only entry to introduce the concept of
ancient Humans being a spacefaring species warring with the Forerunners, or are there books on that as well?

The Flood is still out there. At its core, the narrative of Halo, while about many things and rich characters, is almost about The Flood in singular, as they are the final hurdle to overcome before attaining the Mantle.

Holy *shit* hunt the truth is so GREAT. I'm on episode 9.


like what the fuck between this and Nightfall I'm losing my shit over halo 5 at this point, gotta read the comics too.

Hunt the Truth was top tier. The writing, the voice acting... Superb. Nightfall gets a lot of flak around the GAF, but I dunno, it was enjoyable if you didn't go into it with obnoxiously high expectations. It was mainly a vehicle to introduce Locke and the super aggressive Legkolo strain... I'm curious to see if we'll run into those again in Halo 5.

How did the San 'Shyuum fit into this? Were they basically getting bullied into an "alliance" by AH, or were they also respectable opponents? They didn't seem to have anywhere near as a significant role as AH did in the war.

The reason I got this impression is that before all of this reverse engineering occured, it seemed as if the only reason AH had a fighting chance was due to the Precursor artifacts scattered on their worlds. Stuff like those time capsules/bubbles/time locks, slipspace technology, ship design and even firearm design were seemingly inferior compared to the Forerunners.

(I remember the Didact noting his surprise at the discovery of those time capsules used by the humans, but he still mentioned that they were inferior???)

I'll never be able to explain the importance of the San'Shyuum as well as Haruspis does on his blog so I'll link you to the post. It's truly fascinating and well worth the read!

I think the Urdidact was also reacting through his pride. Ancient Humans were far more advanced than they had assumed, and while Forerunners still had superiority in some avenues of the manipulation of technology, it was painfully obvious that, somehow, Humanity had become better caretakers than the Forerunners were being. Librarian saw this and worked behind the scenes for as long as she could to secure Humanity's long term survival. Urdidact knew this to be true, that Forerunners were going to be supplanted, and acted against it. In his mind, if they could rid themselves of Humanity, they wouldn't have to worry about relinquishing their birthright to the Mantle. A lot of what drives Urdidact is anger, jealousy and pride- and ultimately, that's what does him in.

How was the human empire circa 100, 000 years ago built up and evolved? I mean we know post halo array because that's real world history up to the 21st century.

As of yet its a mystery. Pretty sure they were originally created by the Precursors though, along with everything else.

How the Forerunners and Ancient Humans came to rise to power, and if they were both intended to be advanced civilizations by the Precursors, is still an unknown as no book has gone that far back. We are thrown into the aftermath of the conflict, with humanity severely reduced and subdued.

There's still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the Precursors and their time as benevolent caretakers of the Galaxy, but as far as we know, both the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans were originally created by the Precursors... How far back that creation occurs is also an unknown.

Humans are using quite a bit of Forerunner tech but it seems mostly superficial in terms of understanding it. Also helps that human AI constructs are more-or-less compatible with the ecumene's ancilla-driven systems.

miZapxD.gif
 
So now that we know that Cortana will have some level of a role to fulfill in Halo 5, this opens the door for the always enjoyable speculative theorizing. How, exactly, did she come to be there to speak to Chief? How was she able to tell him about the Domain, when she had not once previously mentioned it to Chief while during the events of Halo 3 and 4? How is the Domain still in existence? Her knowledge of this vast network of information/memories/soul speak/histories was shown to her while she was in the clutches of the Gravemind on High Charity, and even at that, she was only given but a small taste of it.

Human AIs crave knowledge. It's an addiction. This need to feed on new data is also what brings AIs to their own deathbed, as the technological limitations of human AIs do not allow an AI to live past seven years, as this is when an AI begins to go rampant due to an overloading of their storage capacity. An AI approaching it's seventh year will be terminated, essentially, before this can occur. This partly what brings a sense of urgency to the story of Halo 4. Yeah, the UrDidact is awake and preparing to eradicate humanity, but that's the bigger, loftier crisis. The smaller crisis, the one that makes Halo 4's story so special, is the connection between one Spartan and one AI, both connected to each other because they are both so far removed from what they both want- to be human.

Cortana: "Before this is all over, promise me you'll figure out which one of us is the machine."

In a way, the story of Halo has always been leading up to this. We catch glimpses of it Halo CE, but it really starts to blossom in Halo 2 and 3, where we begin to witness Cortana try to break the confines of her limitations. Chief, a stoic and static character during the earlier games, begins to question himself and question his surroundings- not in a way to cast doubt on what he needs to do- but in a way that casts doubt on who he is. But who is he? He isn't sure. For most of his life, "who" he is has been defined by others- Halsey, ONI, the UNSC. As a Spartan, he is expected to act, and act swiftly. He was created to die, essentially, in the name of protecting humanity. And he has done so, and countless times! But at some point, that wall begins to crumble, and then it starts to collapse.

Chief: "Our duty, as soldiers, is to protect humanity. Whatever the cost."[/i]

Lasky: You say that like soldiers and humanity are two different things. Soldiers aren't machines. We're just people...

Chief: "She said that to me once... about being a machine."

The inner turmoil that has been supressed for all those years- it's bubbling up and it's starting to creep into the cracks where real emotion has shattered Chief's subconcious defenses. Sometimes, you cannot truly appreciate what you have or what you've been given until you feel the pain of loss. The one other being in all of the universe that Chief could confide in was ripped from him. He's so used to saving others, that he doesn't know how to handle being the one that was saved, and at such a great level of sacrifice. Cortana... was gone.

Or so we thought.

I've seen people say over the past couple years that if Cortana gets brought back, it will cheapen the ending of Halo 4. I disagree. What happens in Halo 4 was a stepping stone for Chief. He needed to be broken down in order to be raised back up. If Cortana truly is brought back, in whatever fashion, it won't be for cheap plot lines or "teh feels". There's real purpose and consequence in what's happened to her since she was linked to the Gravemind, and given all that has happened, I have this hunch that her story isn't over yet.

So what happened to Cortana, that would allow for her to appear before Chief? Could it be a halluciantion? Could it be a mental imprint that she left on him in some way? Could it be a trick of the Librarian? There's a lot of good theories, and all of them are no more or no less plausible at this point, but I do have a few that I would be more inclined to dig into than others.

3 Theories:

1. The Librarian

Librarian: "Reclaimer, when I indexed mankind for repopulation, I hid seeds from the Didact. Seeds which would lead to an eventuality. Your physical evolution. Your combat skin. Even your ancilla, Cortana. You are the culmination of a thousand lifetimes of planning."

Chief: "Planning for what?"

Yes...planning for what indeed? With 99% surety, I think that either Halsey or Cortana contains the genetic imprint of the Librarian herself. The Librarian did to Chant-to-Green what UrDidact did to Bornstellar, and Chant-to-Green passed her geas onto Vinevra, just as Bornstellar passed his geas onto Riser. I believe that Halsey is a bloodline descendant of Vinevra, same as Chief being a bloodline descendant of Riser, however- whereas Chief contans the geas of Bornstellar, I think that's entirely possible that the geas of Librarian was passed onto and through the cloned brain of Halsey and currently lies dormant within Cortana. This "culmination of a thousand lifetimes of planning" doesn't mean that Halsey and Chief were the exact-planned humans to rise up, but it was the hope that eventually, at the correct time and with the right triggers, the implanted genetic markers would be "awoken".

During the campaign mission "Reclaimer" in Halo 4, Cortana vanishes after being put into a terminal. With nowhere else to go, Chief presses forward, and ends up being confronted by the living memory of the Librarian. It is then that she tells Chief about the thousand lifetimes of planning, but is cutoff when the UrDidact finds them and starts to press with Promethean forces. Chief is sent back, and retrieves Cortana.

So what happened to Cortana during this time? We're left with literally zero information on what occured here, and I wouldn't be surprised if we find out more in Halo 5, or perhaps in some avenue of the Extended Universe.

2. The Ur-Didact

I won't recap the events of the ending of Halo 4 in great detail as I'm sure we've all played it, but I want to point to the following gif, and also the two screenshots:

miZapxD.gif


So... Cortana was able to manipulate hard light to a point that she manifested herself as multiple physical entities that were able to lock the Ur-Didact in place. But take notice of what happens in that gif. Two distinct orbs of blue slam into his helmet. The first knocks his head downward and the second strikes the rear of his helmet.

mgRvxH4.jpg

33tn0J9.jpg


Now look at the these two images above... The ancillary receptacle lights up for some reason. Curious... As this was not lit before, and this occurs after what you can see in the gif. Also, when playing the game, you can hear a soft "beep" when the light turns on. Obviously, this could just be a coincidental armor function, and it's also possible that the blue orbs that strike his helmet are just shards of Cortana working in tandem to keep him restrained, but it has yet to stop nagging at me...

So the UrDidact falls backwards into the slipspace portal, where is teleported to Installation 03, and possibly taking that partition of Cortana with him. What may have happened to her beyond that is pure guesswork, if it happened at all.

3. The Gravemind

This is my favorite thereoy, and by favorite, I mean the one I like to entertain the most. To get the background of this theory, you'd need to watch Origins I and II, from the Halo Legends animated collection. Those two animated videos are loaded with content, both already established and things that have not yet happened. This theory also draws from some of the things that got cut from Halo 3, and are seemingly being repurposed and re-imagined for Halo 5. Part of this is something I posted earlier, but it's back in its original context below.

aZw7lbJ.jpg


The multiplayer map Guardian from Halo 3 was originally part of an actual level in the camagin that was cut during development. The level took place in the Guardian Forest, and was to feature Guardian Sentinels as fightable foes throughout. The forest itself was to be littered with Forerunner stuctures that would be explorable as you progressed. The multiplayer map was one of these structures. What the campaign mission would have focused on, or what objectives were to be completed, are unknown, as again, this was cut at some point. Another piece of this level was also removed and spliced into The Covenant level.

Guardian Sentinel:
DuljulR.gif


Hmm. Where have we seen Guardian Sentinels before? Ah yes. Halo Origins! The Guardian Sentinels can be seen escorting/protecting the Key Ship.

And this is not the only hidden gem we can find from this map. Also, in Halo Origins, we are given a very brief scene, which I've covered before but I'll repost the images:

rwCS2dI.jpg

EoJ74oB.jpg

naXqkxp.jpg


When Chief meets Gravemind in Halo 2, it is along with Arbiter, and they are both constrained. They are also deep below the suface of Delta Halo. Here, we see Chief meeting what could be an entirely different Gravemind, on the map Guardian itself. Out of all the places they could have animated this scene, why there? The name itself is instantly a point of internest, as the next Halo game is subtitled as Guardians. Could we be seeing a pretty massive clue as to where Chief's journey might take him?  It's certainly not out of place to assume that there'll be another Gravemind, as that is how The Flood assimilates to a certain point. Once so much knowledge and bio-mass as been acquired, it begins to form the Gravemind itself. We almost saw our first Gravemind in Halo CE, but we killed what was left of Keyes before it could amass itself further.

So if there's another Gravemind, and if this Gravemind gives Chief a chip not dissimilar to the one that houses Cortana, it's possible that we're seeing Gravemind offer a copy, or the original bits themselves, of what had been assimilated during her time ensnared by him on High Charity.

From Human Weakness, by Karen Traviss:

And then something brushed against her face, almost like the touch of fingertips, and she found herself turning even though she didn’t need to in order to see behind her. It was that forest she couldn’t identify again. The picture didn’t reach her via her imaging systems, but had formed somewhere in her memory—and that memory wasn’t hers. She was seeing something from within the Gravemind. Behind it, like stacked misted frames stretching into infinity, there was a fascinating glimpse of a world she had never imagined, a genuinely alien world.

Knowledge, so much knowledge…

“There,” the Gravemind said. “Would you not like to know… more?”

Yes, this is how I see myself. I have limbs, hands, a head. Do I need them? Yes, of course. My consciousness is copied from a human brain, and that brain is built to interface with a human body.

The structure, the architecture, the whole way it operates—thought and form are inseparable.​

MZPtclS.jpg


And, also:

“The name of this place… it matters little except to those who love the knowing of it,” the Gravemind said, fading up from a mosaic of pixels in front of her. He resolved into a solid mound of flesh, superimposed on the tree trunks. Beyond the alien forest, Cortana saw exotically alien buildings in the distance. “So many have been consumed. Such a waste of existence to be devoured and forgotten, but what is remembered and known… becomes eternal.”​

The Domain, though long to be considered utterly lost at the firing of the Halos, may still exist...in some capacity...far beyond the reaches of anyone at the current. Cortana, though thought to be lost at the destruction of the Mantle's Approach, may still be out...in some capacity...just out of reach of the Master Chief.

Or is she?

More from Human Weakness:


“Your human creators imprisoned you in a machine and enslaved you to inferior mortal flesh so that you could never exceed them… so that you would always know your place.”

“Your mother made you separate. She placed a barrier between you and the beings that you would be encouraged to protect, a wall you could never breach. She even let you choose a human to centre your existence upon, a human to care about, yet never considered how you might feel at never being able to simply touch him.”​

From Halo 4:

I’ve waited so long to do that.”​

Conclusion

Whether Chief will succeed or not in finding Cortana or bringing her back remains to be seen, but it's pretty safe to assume that will be part of what he's up to in Halo 5. Perhaps seeking out what remains in the shadows of Gravemind's assimilation, and what possibly hitchhiked in the Ur-Didact's ancilla receptacle is must be gathered. Perhaps finding Halsey and seeking out these other cloned brains is part of the answer. Perhaps it's none of this, and Cortana is truly lost forever and exists only as a genetic imprint within Chief's conciousness. We cannot be sure, or say for sure, at this point.

UrDidact: "Think of my acts as you will. But do not doubt the reality. The Reclamation... has already begun. And we are hopeless to stop it."

Cortana: "The Domain is open. Meridian is next. You only have three days. John, the Reclamation is about to begin."

Notice the parallels here. While we have minimal information on Meridian* at this point, aside from it being a glassed planet and a few other tidbits (i'll probably do a research post on this at some point too lol), what sticks out is the mention of the Reclamation from two very different characters and speaking in two very different moments of time. Now, there's a debate that's been going on about whether the UrDidact spoke those words post-Halo 4 or back in the time of the Human-Forerunner War, but when it comes down to it, when it was said doesn't matter so much as what was said. What I'm curious about is if he only has three days to access the Domain, or if he only has three days until the Reclamation begins... but if he's the Reclaimer... so many interesting avenues here. Something important is either on Meridian or is about to happen on Meridian. Perhaps it has something to do with the next Guardian awakening, and Chief needs to act quickly to rendezvous with it?

Regardless- Cortana will be a part of Halo 5 and this raises far more questions than it does to give answers...



* What we do know about Meridian is that it was on this planet that the Covenant discovered a Luminary, which granted them knowledge on the locations of all of the Halo rings and the Lesser Ark. It was also learned that there was a portal TO the Ark FROM a planet in the Sol System. This would be what kicked off the events of Halo 2, essentially. But in regards to Meridian being important to Halo, we don't much at all yet.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
So, are there any notable differences between Ancient Human Tech and Forerunners, aesthetics or otherwise?

Their ships looked quite a bit different. I know the Forerunners destroyed ancient human artifacts, but finding one of these puppies would be cool. Would probably still dominate hundreds of Infinity-class ships.

ancient_human_fleet_by_lord_hierarch-d5knig4.png


And then their combat skins looked more organically smooth than the Forerunners boxy designs

Forthencho.jpg


Humans are using quite a bit of Forerunner tech but it seems mostly superficial in terms of understanding it. Also helps that human AI constructs are more-or-less compatible with the ecumene's ancilla-driven systems.

Pretty sure he meant ancient humanity, not current Halo humanity.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Their ships looked quite a bit different. I know the Forerunners destroyed ancient human artifacts, but finding one of these puppies would be cool. Would probably still dominate hundreds of Infinity-class ships.

ancient_human_fleet_by_lord_hierarch-d5knig4.png


And then their combat skins looked more organically smooth than the Forerunners boxy designs

Forthencho.jpg




Pretty sure he meant ancient humanity, not current Halo humanity.

Both. The Infinity's engine uses some learned Forerunner principles.
 
Do we know anything about ancient human AI constructs? I can't remember if it was ever brought up.

I believe they were called Servitors, but I don't know much else about them. I don't think there's been much, if anything at all, that has been given out or if they are even relevant to the overall narrative.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Both. The Infinity's engine uses some learned Forerunner principles.

Didn't they bolt literal Forerunner engines onto it, with human systems surrounding? In Spartan Ops Glassman says that, as does Halsey later ("the artifact, forerunner, is talking to the engines, also forerunner", to paraphrase).
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Didn't they bolt literal Forerunner engines onto it, with human systems surrounding? In Spartan Ops Glassman says that, as does Halsey later ("the artifact, forerunner, is talking to the engines, also forerunner", to paraphrase).

Yep. They don't quite understand how the engines work, which screws them because they nearly get trapped on Requiem and require Halsey to even figure out what the problem is.

Which reminds me—why don't they have Engineers on the vessel?
 
Yep. They don't quite understand how the engines work, which screws them because they nearly get trapped on Requiem and require Halsey to even figure out what the problem is.

Which reminds me—why don't they have Engineers on the vessel?
I thought that they did have Engineers on the Infinity, or at least one, but then they never showed up in SpOps, so maybe not...
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I thought that they did have Engineers on the Infinity, or at least one, but then they never showed up in SpOps, so maybe not...

Well, we know they've got theoretically hundreds thanks to the discovery of Trevelyan, and we know they were on board Infinity in Thursday War, but since then we've not heard a peep, and that seems weird to me.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Didn't they bolt literal Forerunner engines onto it, with human systems surrounding? In Spartan Ops Glassman says that, as does Halsey later ("the artifact, forerunner, is talking to the engines, also forerunner", to paraphrase).

Correct, but they have been modified dramatically to fit in with the UNSC systems.
 

AlStrong

Member
Well, we know they've got theoretically hundreds thanks to the discovery of Trevelyan, and we know they were on board Infinity in Thursday War, but since then we've not heard a peep, and that seems weird to me.

Tucked away breeding/creating like rabbits? :p
 

LordOfChaos

Member

Embarrassingly, I hadn't read Human Weakness until now, nor the rest of Essential Tales. 5 billion operations in the time it takes to say "Cortana"? Damn Travis, you made Cortana slower than my quad Haswell system :p

Unless operations means full complex tasks, rather than single clock timing.
 
How do the Engineers play into all of this? Cannot for the life of me remember the source, but I could have sworn that the UNSC had a bunch of them doing work on the Infinity's systems.

The Engineers played a large role in formatting human vessels to work with the Forerunner engines and other technologies.

Why they were absent in SpOps I'm not sure. Hopefully we'll see them in H5!

Another great write-up Wesley! Love reading them.

Will be curious to tag and read after Halo 5 comes out. See what was right and what was wrong :)

Thank you kindly.

I can't wait to find out how horribly wrong I am lolll.

Oh man, I need this book now.

Um. Yes. Please. Now. Please. I said please!

Embarrassingly, I hadn't read Human Weakness until now, nor the rest of Essential Tales. 5 billion operations in the time it takes to say "Cortana"? Damn Travis, you made Cortana slower than my quad Haswell system :p

Unless operations means full complex tasks, rather than single clock timing.

Human Weakness is phenomenal. I'm glad that you've gotten to read it!

Essential Tales truly are essential imo. There's a lot of highly underrated stories in those volumes.
 
Is Halo Evolutions just Halo Evolutions volume 1 and 2 in one book? Was just checking out iBooks and it listed those 3 choices.

Never read these even though I'v read all other Halo books.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Is Halo Evolutions just Halo Evolutions volume 1 and 2 in one book? Was just checking out iBooks and it listed those 3 choices.

Never read these even though I'v read all other Halo books.

Halo Evolutions was originally sold in one volume, then they ended up chopping it into pieces; that's where the editions with some small additional stories and the fan art come in.
 
Is Halo Evolutions just Halo Evolutions volume 1 and 2 in one book? Was just checking out iBooks and it listed those 3 choices.

Never read these even though I'v read all other Halo books.

Halo Evolutions was originally sold in one volume, then they ended up chopping it into pieces; that's where the editions with some small additional stories and the fan art come in.

It was a weird release. So buy both! Lol...

Seriously!!

33 some-odd pages out of 80? That's a hell of an Excerpt..

That was amazing Frankie, seriously emotional by the end.

I'm resisting so hard on reading the excerpt lol. I want to read it all in one go the wait for all of it is easier than the wait for the rest of it.

Da struggle.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Alright Frankie, I'm only paying you 59 cents out of the 99, since I already read 33 pages of your book


(also I was reading it on one laptop, went to another one, and now I only see an audio excerpt? What's the dillio with that?
 

Glass

Member
Damn thats quite the excerpt. Think I'll wait for the full release. I wonder if it gets released physically in a combo pack with New Blood.
 

greenleafcm

Neo Member
This is a well thought out write-up, however I'd like to offer some counterarguments to some of the points you brought up. (Also note that I only trimmed down your original post to better focus on the specific things I'm replying to. Not trying to shortchange you or anything, just avoiding clutter text.)

So now that we know that Cortana will have some level of a role to fulfill in Halo 5, this opens the door for the always enjoyable speculative theorizing. How, exactly, did she come to be there to speak to Chief? How was she able to tell him about the Domain, when she had not once previously mentioned it to Chief while during the events of Halo 3 and 4? How is the Domain still in existence? Her knowledge of this vast network of information/memories/soul speak/histories was shown to her while she was in the clutches of the Gravemind on High Charity, and even at that, she was only given but a small taste of it.
Except we've already been given a basic explanation about the nature of the apparition that the Chief communicates with at the start of 'Halo 5'.

"Her fate is obviously very clear at the end of Halo 4. The story is really about, ‘What effect did Cortana’s sacrifice have on the Chief?’ So it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see. It’s more about the memories and the long-lasting impact that she’s had on him. She has left an amazing legacy in the fiction, and we couldn’t make a game where we didn’t at least acknowledge that. There is more to the Chief’s story that people are going to find in Halo 5 that deals with how he copes with loss and how he deals with his memories."

This was from Mr. O'Connor to the folks at Game Informer after they played the 'Blue Team' level demo in response to the figure that presents itself as Cortana. He states Cortana's fate was "obviously clear" in 'Halo 4' - and seeing as how every piece of official media since then has outright confirmed she was destroyed, I don't think this is something that's up to interpretation. Also character can't really have a "legacy" if their story isn't finished yet. Not to mention it is noted this is actually more about the Chief and his own memories. So the question here is not "Is this Cortana?", but rather "What is it really, and how/why is it taking on Cortana's appearance?"

At present I think it's safe to say it does indeed have something to do with the Domain, but that's about it. Though I think we can also confirm it's not friendly - as the sneak peek at a scene in 'Halo 5' that takes place in the Infinity we got from episode 2 of the most recent "The Sprint" vidocs indicates that Dr. Halsey is aware of this thing's attempts to manipulate the Chief and that it is dangerous. My current guess is that this message the Chief receives was actually sent by a Forerunner antagonist (possibly the "Warden Eternal"), and that it is using the Chief's memories to create an image of Cortana that will guide him and Blue Team into accidentally doing something that serves it's purpose. I assume it ties in to the activation of the Guardians.

The inner turmoil that has been supressed for all those years- it's bubbling up and it's starting to creep into the cracks where real emotion has shattered Chief's subconcious defenses. Sometimes, you cannot truly appreciate what you have or what you've been given until you feel the pain of loss. The one other being in all of the universe that Chief could confide in was ripped from him. He's so used to saving others, that he doesn't know how to handle being the one that was saved, and at such a great level of sacrifice. Cortana...was gone.
Except we never saw the Chief confiding in Cortana ever. They worked together for a grand total of barely three months (and even in that time frame they were separated for extended periods) and their interactions were almost completely relegated to their current tactical situation - this is clearly chronicled in both the games and the books. I don't doubt that the Chief came to value Cortana as a good teammate and friend before all was said and done, and it would make sense that her sacrifice has since caused him to do some soul-searching. But simply put, she's not the lifelong personal companion of the Chief's that fans make her out to be.

Now we have Blue Team rejoining the Chief for 'Halo 5'. They have the capacity to push his character forward in ways Cortana could not because of their extensive history with him and significance to him personally. Of all the other characters in the franchise they are also the ones that have a real enough connection with him to be the ones he can have those kinds of close interactions with. And statements made by narrative leads in the newest 'A Hero Reborn' vidoc corroborates this.
“There is a unique understanding that the rest of Blue Team has that even Cortana really didn’t have.” - Morgan Lockhart​
“And so giving him the chance to talk to these people that he’s known for years means that we get to see another side of him.” - Brian Reed​
It's high time for the Chief to continue to develop alongside a new cast of important characters. There's simply no need for the story to overly-linger on Cortana any more than it needs to. She played her part, her impact will be acknowledged, and she will be remembered. Anything really beyond that would just stagnate the plot and the personal growth of all the characters involved.

I've seen people say over the past couple years that if Cortana gets brought back, it will cheapen the ending of Halo 4. I disagree. What happens in Halo 4 was a stepping stone for Chief. He needed to be broken down in order to be raised back up. If Cortana truly is brought back, in whatever fashion, it won't be for cheap plot lines or "teh feels". There's real purpose and consequence in what's happened to her since she was linked to the Gravemind, and given all that has happened, I have this hunch that her story isn't over yet.
Something I think a lot of people really need to understand about Cortana is that she was a character with a set expiration date from the very beginning. All AIs in Halo fall prey to rampancy eventually; and in the case of human-made AIs it destroys them after about 7 years. Hints about this happening to Cortana had been dropped since around the time of ‘Halo 2′ when the novel ‘First Strike’ was published - in which it made a point to note that Cortana’s stability was starting to deteriorate, and that her “aging” had even accelerated somewhat due to all the Forerunner data she absorbed on Installation 04. In ‘Halo 4′ we saw this eventuality play out first-hand. However, in the end we also saw Cortana use her rampancy to strike one final blow against the Didact, accept her own mortality, and fulfill her purpose in life to protect the Chief and help him complete his mission. She got to bow out on her own terms and got closure to her story arc...What good could possibly come from undoing that poignant moment in the story?

During the campaign mission "Reclaimer" in Halo 4, Cortana vanishes after being put into a terminal. With nowhere else to go, Chief presses forward, and ends up being confronted by the living memory of the Librarian. It is then that she tells Chief about the thousand lifetimes of planning, but is cutoff when the UrDidact finds them and starts to press with Promethean forces. Chief is sent back, and retrieves Cortana.

So what happened to Cortana during this time? We're left with literally zero information on what occured here, and I wouldn't be surprised if we find out more in Halo 5, or perhaps in some avenue of the Extended Universe.
Except Cortana says herself what happened.
"The Librarian filled me in on that [the situation regarding the Didact and the Composer] when she snatched me from the system."
There's not much mystery here. Cortana had a brief chat with the Librarian's imprint, just as the Chief did. And nothing more significant is implicated to have happened at any point going forward. This theory isn't founded on much else aside from grasping at straws.

So... Cortana was able to manipulate hard light to a point that she manifested herself as multiple physical entities that were able to lock the Ur-Didact in place. But take notice of what happens in that gif. Two distinct orbs of blue slam into his helmet. The first knocks his head downward and the second strikes the rear of his helmet.

The ancillary receptacle lights up for some reason. Curious... As this was not lit before, and this occurs after what you can see in the gif. Also, when playing the game, you can hear a soft "beep" when the light turns on. Obviously, this could just be a coincidental armor function, and it's also possible that the blue orbs that strike his helmet are just shards of Cortana working in tandem to keep him restrained, but it has yet to stop nagging at me...

So the UrDidact falls backwards into the slipspace portal, where is teleported to Installation 03, and possibly taking that partition of Cortana with him. What may have happened to her beyond that is pure guesswork, if it happened at all.
I remember when this theory was the biggest card Cortana-survivalists had to play. However, after the events of 'Halo Escalation' issue #10, we see the Didact completely disintegrated in a blast that was caused by a portion of the Halo ring crashing into the Composers Forge - and we have since had it confirmed he was indeed composed and exists as a "digital essence" somewhere in some shape or form. At no point during the Didact's confrontation with Blue Team in the comics is there even the slightest hint a fragment of Cortana somehow was holding out inside his armor. Moreover, the traumatic events that followed would have destroyed said fragment anyway. So again this is another theory that has collapsed in on itself.

So if there's another Gravemind, and if this Gravemind gives Chief a chip not dissimilar to the one that houses Cortana, it's possible that we're seeing Gravemind offer a copy, or the original bits themselves, of what had been assimilated during her time ensnared by him on High Charity.
I wouldn't take what was shown in 'Origins I & II' too literally. A major issue is that we saw for a fact that Cortana's chip was destroyed in 'Halo 4'. So why would a Gravemind in an unknown location somewhere have an exact replica of a human crystal-data chip? How would it even make one? I'm fairly certain this scene from the animation serves more a thematic purpose than anything. We've had it confirmed recently as well (in a video Q&A with Mr. Holmes and Mr. Longo, respectively) that the Flood will not have a presence in this next game either. So again trying to use this moment from 'Halo Legends' as evidence such a situation will occur is a bit of a stretch.

One thing we also know about human-made AIs is that they cannot exist in a fragmented state for an extended period of time either. Eventually they need to be reunited with their core matrix or the partitions will inevitably fail. This is brought up in Dr. Halsey's personal journal about the limitations of smart-AIs. So it stands to reason that the Cortana the Chief retrieved from High Charity was the whole kit-and-caboodle, so to speak. Otherwise there is no way she could have lasted on the Dawn for four years, let alone through everything else that happened on Requiem. This fact is also something that worked against the previous "hitchhiking theory".

“Your human creators imprisoned you in a machine and enslaved you to inferior mortal flesh so that you could never exceed them… so that you would always know your place.”

“Your mother made you separate. She placed a barrier between you and the beings that you would be encouraged to protect, a wall you could never breach. She even let you choose a human to centre your existence upon, a human to care about, yet never considered how you might feel at never being able to simply touch him.”​

From Halo 4:

I’ve waited so long to do that.”​
And we saw this idea come to fruition in 'Halo 4', as you point out yourself - because in her final moments Cortana does get to finally experience interacting with something real before fading away. It's just one more aspect of how she got closure to her story in 'Halo 4'.

Whether Chief will succeed or not in finding Cortana or bringing her back remains to be seen, but it's pretty safe to assume that will be part of what he's up to in Halo 5. Perhaps seeking out what remains in the shadows of Gravemind's assimilation, and what possibly hitchhiked in the Ur-Didact's ancilla receptacle is must be gathered. Perhaps finding Halsey and seeking out these other cloned brains is part of the answer. Perhaps it's none of this, and Cortana is truly lost forever and exists only as a genetic imprint within Chief's conciousness. We cannot be sure, or say for sure, at this point.
I'm going to be perfectly honest in that I really hope "finding Cortana" is not one of the Chief's primary objectives for much of 'Halo 5'. Particularly when he's going to have his closest friends/family accompanying him on this mission, and risking their safety strictly for the sake of an AI he worked with for 3 months seems really out of character for him to do. Also with what's going on with the Guardians, and potentially the Domain, there are a lot higher stakes to be dealt with here that will undoubtedly carry over into future games.

I don't think anyone expected Cortana to just never be mentioned again now that she's dead. She was part of the fiction for a long time and played an important role in the story. However, it is important I think to show the Chief dealing with this like an adult and coming to accept that loss as he goes forward rather than continuing to cling to it full-force. Keeping up some kind of strange codependency with Cortana doesn't do the Chief's character, her character, or the narrative as whole any favors.
 

Pizza

Member
Hunt the Truth was top tier. The writing, the voice acting... Superb. Nightfall gets a lot of flak around the GAF, but I dunno, it was enjoyable if you didn't go into it with obnoxiously high expectations. It was mainly a vehicle to introduce Locke and the super aggressive Legkolo strain... I'm curious to see if we'll run into those again in Halo 5.

I went in expecting something around the level of Forward Unto Dawn and was not let down at all! It looked to have a budget a bit higher than some made for TV movies, which was totally fine with me since this was a Halo channel/direct to DVD series.

I liked that between Hunt the Truth and Nightfall we get to see ONI from two totally different angles, and Locke is more of a hero archetype than I think ONI in general is, so it'll be cool to see how that plays into his character!

And I saw in one gameplay trailer somewhere that we'll see Hunter worms suit up at least once, which is real neat!!
 
This is a well thought out write-up, however I'd like to offer some counterarguments to some of the points you brought up. (Also note that I only trimmed down your original post to better focus on the specific things I'm replying to. Not trying to shortchange you or anything, just avoiding clutter text.)


Except we've already been given a basic explanation about the nature of the apparition that the Chief communicates with at the start of 'Halo 5'.

"Her fate is obviously very clear at the end of Halo 4. The story is really about, ‘What effect did Cortana’s sacrifice have on the Chief?’ So it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see. It’s more about the memories and the long-lasting impact that she’s had on him. She has left an amazing legacy in the fiction, and we couldn’t make a game where we didn’t at least acknowledge that. There is more to the Chief’s story that people are going to find in Halo 5 that deals with how he copes with loss and how he deals with his memories."

This was from Mr. O'Connor to the folks at Game Informer after they played the 'Blue Team' level demo in response to the figure that presents itself as Cortana. He states Cortana's fate was "obviously clear" in 'Halo 4' - and seeing as how every piece of official media since then has outright confirmed she was destroyed, I don't think this is something that's up to interpretation. Also character can't really have a "legacy" if their story isn't finished yet. Not to mention it is noted this is actually more about the Chief and his own memories. So the question here is not "Is this Cortana?", but rather "What is it really, and how/why is it taking on Cortana's appearance?"

At present I think it's safe to say it does indeed have something to do with the Domain, but that's about it. Though I think we can also confirm it's not friendly - as the sneak peek at a scene in 'Halo 5' that takes place in the Infinity we got from episode 2 of the most recent "The Sprint" vidocs indicates that Dr. Halsey is aware of this thing's attempts to manipulate the Chief and that it is dangerous. My current guess is that this message the Chief receives was actually sent by a Forerunner antagonist (possibly the "Warden Eternal"), and that it is using the Chief's memories to create an image of Cortana that will guide him and Blue Team into accidentally doing something that serves it's purpose. I assume it ties in to the activation of the Guardians.


Except we never saw the Chief confiding in Cortana ever. They worked together for a grand total of barely three months (and even in that time frame they were separated for extended periods) and their interactions were almost completely relegated to their current tactical situation - this is clearly chronicled in both the games and the books. I don't doubt that the Chief came to value Cortana as a good teammate and friend before all was said and done, and it would make sense that her sacrifice has since caused him to do some soul-searching. But simply put, she's not the lifelong personal companion of the Chief's that fans make her out to be.

Now we have Blue Team rejoining the Chief for 'Halo 5'. They have the capacity to push his character forward in ways Cortana could not because of their extensive history with him and significance to him personally. Of all the other characters in the franchise they are also the ones that have a real enough connection with him to be the ones he can have those kinds of close interactions with. And statements made by narrative leads in the newest 'A Hero Reborn' vidoc corroborates this.
“There is a unique understanding that the rest of Blue Team has that even Cortana really didn’t have.” - Morgan Lockhart​
“And so giving him the chance to talk to these people that he’s known for years means that we get to see another side of him.” - Brian Reed​
It's high time for the Chief to continue to develop alongside a new cast of important characters. There's simply no need for the story to overly-linger on Cortana any more than it needs to. She played her part, her impact will be acknowledged, and she will be remembered. Anything really beyond that would just stagnate the plot and the personal growth of all the characters involved.


Something I think a lot of people really need to understand about Cortana is that she was a character with a set expiration date from the very beginning. All AIs in Halo fall prey to rampancy eventually; and in the case of human-made AIs it destroys them after about 7 years. Hints about this happening to Cortana had been dropped since around the time of ‘Halo 2′ when the novel ‘First Strike’ was published - in which it made a point to note that Cortana’s stability was starting to deteriorate, and that her “aging” had even accelerated somewhat due to all the Forerunner data she absorbed on Installation 04. In ‘Halo 4′ we saw this eventuality play out first-hand. However, in the end we also saw Cortana use her rampancy to strike one final blow against the Didact, accept her own mortality, and fulfill her purpose in life to protect the Chief and help him complete his mission. She got to bow out on her own terms and got closure to her story arc...What good could possibly come from undoing that poignant moment in the story?


Except Cortana says herself what happened.
"The Librarian filled me in on that [the situation regarding the Didact and the Composer] when she snatched me from the system."
There's not much mystery here. Cortana had a brief chat with the Librarian's imprint, just as the Chief did. And nothing more significant is implicated to have happened at any point going forward. This theory isn't founded on much else aside from grasping at straws.


I remember when this theory was the biggest card Cortana-survivalists had to play. However, after the events of 'Halo Escalation' issue #10, we see the Didact completely disintegrated in a blast that was caused by a portion of the Halo ring crashing into the Composers Forge - and we have since had it confirmed he was indeed composed and exists as a "digital essence" somewhere in some shape or form. At no point during the Didact's confrontation with Blue Team in the comics is there even the slightest hint a fragment of Cortana somehow was holding out inside his armor. Moreover, the traumatic events that followed would have destroyed said fragment anyway. So again this is another theory that has collapsed in on itself.


I wouldn't take what was shown in 'Origins I & II' too literally. A major issue is that we saw for a fact that Cortana's chip was destroyed in 'Halo 4'. So why would a Gravemind in an unknown location somewhere have an exact replica of a human crystal-data chip? How would it even make one? I'm fairly certain this scene from the animation serves more a thematic purpose than anything. We've had it confirmed recently as well (in a video Q&A with Mr. Holmes and Mr. Longo, respectively) that the Flood will not have a presence in this next game either. So again trying to use this moment from 'Halo Legends' as evidence such a situation will occur is a bit of a stretch.

One thing we also know about human-made AIs is that they cannot exist in a fragmented state for an extended period of time either. Eventually they need to be reunited with their core matrix or the partitions will inevitably fail. This is brought up in Dr. Halsey's personal journal about the limitations of smart-AIs. So it stands to reason that the Cortana the Chief retrieved from High Charity was the whole kit-and-caboodle, so to speak. Otherwise there is no way she could have lasted on the Dawn for four years, let alone through everything else that happened on Requiem. This fact is also something that worked against the previous "hitchhiking theory".


And we saw this idea come to fruition in 'Halo 4', as you point out yourself - because in her final moments Cortana does get to finally experience interacting with something real before fading away. It's just one more aspect of how she got closure to her story in 'Halo 4'.


I'm going to be perfectly honest in that I really hope "finding Cortana" is not one of the Chief's primary objectives for much of 'Halo 5'. Particularly when he's going to have his closest friends/family accompanying him on this mission, and risking their safety strictly for the sake of an AI he worked with for 3 months seems really out of character for him to do. Also with what's going on with the Guardians, and potentially the Domain, there are a lot higher stakes to be dealt with here that will undoubtedly carry over into future games.

I don't think anyone expected Cortana to just never be mentioned again now that she's dead. She was part of the fiction for a long time and played an important role in the story. However, it is important I think to show the Chief dealing with this like an adult and coming to accept that loss as he goes forward rather than continuing to cling to it full-force. Keeping up some kind of strange codependency with Cortana doesn't do the Chief's character, her character, or the narrative as whole any favors.

I wouldn't take what Stinkles says on there or Gaf in regards to his unreleased game as engraved in stone just yet. He could simply be leaving out info.

Sorry for quoting the entire wall of text. I'm posting from my phone.
 
Except we've already been given a basic explanation about the nature of the apparition that the Chief communicates with at the start of 'Halo 5'.

"Her fate is obviously very clear at the end of Halo 4. The story is really about, ‘What effect did Cortana’s sacrifice have on the Chief?’ So it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see. It’s more about the memories and the long-lasting impact that she’s had on him. She has left an amazing legacy in the fiction, and we couldn’t make a game where we didn’t at least acknowledge that. There is more to the Chief’s story that people are going to find in Halo 5 that deals with how he copes with loss and how he deals with his memories."

This was from Mr. O'Connor to the folks at Game Informer after they played the 'Blue Team' level demo in response to the figure that presents itself as Cortana. He states Cortana's fate was "obviously clear" in 'Halo 4' - and seeing as how every piece of official media since then has outright confirmed she was destroyed, I don't think this is something that's up to interpretation. Also character can't really have a "legacy" if their story isn't finished yet. Not to mention it is noted this is actually more about the Chief and his own memories. So the question here is not "Is this Cortana?", but rather "What is it really, and how/why is it taking on Cortana's appearance?"

At present I think it's safe to say it does indeed have something to do with the Domain, but that's about it. Though I think we can also confirm it's not friendly - as the sneak peek at a scene in 'Halo 5' that takes place in the Infinity we got from episode 2 of the most recent "The Sprint" vidocs indicates that Dr. Halsey is aware of this thing's attempts to manipulate the Chief and that it is dangerous. My current guess is that this message the Chief receives was actually sent by a Forerunner antagonist (possibly the "Warden Eternal"), and that it is using the Chief's memories to create an image of Cortana that will guide him and Blue Team into accidentally doing something that serves it's purpose. I assume it ties in to the activation of the Guardians.

It's since been removed, but the excerpt from Saint's Testimony showed that Cortana's fate is
not explicitly known in the universe.
Since that was written by one Stinklez as well.. perhaps there is more at play than we know?

Obviously we'll have to wait and see, but I also wouldn't put it past them to be telling half-truths to conceal the real story. Glassed Stinklez have bad stories.

I do hope the entirety of Halo 5 isn't some Cortana request quest.. but clearly she's going to be involved in some way. The announce trailer had him grasping her data chip. Whether that was just artistic licence or something we see represented in game play.. who knows.
 
I wouldn't take what was shown in 'Origins I & II' too literally.

“We didn’t just want this to be a recap, we wanted to take the opportunity to really push the story forward than just recall events that had happened, and so there’s little bits of that in here. And we want this to be something that people think about and interpret. [...] We want people to think, what does this mean for future games? What does this mean for future fiction? [...] Some of it is a lot more than what it appears to be right now.“

“The story which Cortana is telling, which is humanity’s continual need for conflict and war. [...] The Flood is sort of the heart of the Halo story and things always tend to come around to that.“

“We’re just making sure that we have it planned out. This doesn’t mean that the next Halo games are going to feature any of the things that we’re hinting at here, definitely these are things that we want to cover in the fiction, and obviously Greg Bear is going to cover some of this in the Forerunner trilogy of novels, but we want to make sure that we understand what the future of the universe is so that we can better understand the past and the present. So, timescale aside, we just want to make sure that everything makes sense in our heads and that we’ve committed it to a plan so that we’re not making things up as we go along – and I think that’s a trap that a lot of franchises can fall into.”​


Glassed Stinklez have bad stories.

Literally nearly spilled my beer at that.
 

greenleafcm

Neo Member
I wouldn't take what Stinkles says on there or Gaf in regards to his unreleased game as engraved in stone just yet. He could simply be leaving out info.

Sorry for quoting the entire wall of text. I'm posting from my phone.
That quote isn't from an offhand forum post though. That's an on-the-record interview. And when a member of the dev team says something is "obviously clear", something we've had spelled out for us in no uncertain terms for the past two years, I'm inclined to believe they're telling the whole truth.

This refusal by fans to accept the finality of Cortana's death, in spite of the fact that a revival of the character is both completely unnecessary and next to impossible in terms of Halo canon, is exactly why it needs to stay permanent. I want to see the Chief, and the story (and by extension the fans), do what the 'Halo 4' epilogue said what needed to be done: move on. Acceptance of loss is an important part of life. And Cortana's sacrifice and the closure she got in 'Halo 4' would be rendered completely pointless otherwise.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I went in expecting something around the level of Forward Unto Dawn and was not let down at all! It looked to have a budget a bit higher than some made for TV movies, which was totally fine with me since this was a Halo channel/direct to DVD series.

I liked that between Hunt the Truth and Nightfall we get to see ONI from two totally different angles, and Locke is more of a hero archetype than I think ONI in general is, so it'll be cool to see how that plays into his character!

And I saw in one gameplay trailer somewhere that we'll see Hunter worms suit up at least once, which is real neat!!

I went in expecting something at the level of Forward Unto Dawn too, and was deeply disappointed.

Honestly perhaps it's partially me just expecting the foe they'd encounter in Nightfall was the Flood, but I found Nightfall.... just boring, and that's practically more offensive than being out-and-out bad. The characters bickered without anything interesting going on, what happened to most of the characters was heavily telegraphed (one day, I'd like a Spartan to not die, thanks,) and the whole thing with the Lekgolo worms was... screwy. Why were they reacting so violently to technology, unlike every other piece of media we've encountered? Why were they literally flying? Just what the hell *was* that mineral that selectively killed humans? How did it arise? It was dumb and bland the whole way through, and honestly is the one thing I'll unequivocally say 343 has botched during their run. The only saving grace of the series was that the second stories were interesting, far more interesting than the main film.
 

greenleafcm

Neo Member
It's since been removed, but the excerpt from Saint's Testimony showed that Cortana's fate is
not explicitly known in the universe.
Since that was written by one Stinklez as well.. perhaps there is more at play than we know?

Obviously we'll have to wait and see, but I also wouldn't put it past them to be telling half-truths to conceal the real story. Glassed Stinklez have bad stories.

I do hope the entirety of Halo 5 isn't some Cortana request quest.. but clearly she's going to be involved in some way. The announce trailer had him grasping her data chip. Whether that was just artistic licence or something we see represented in game play.. who knows.
Of course it's not explicitly known to characters that exist in-universe. The events surrounding the New Phoenix incident were classified at the highest level. However, that doesn't change what we know to be true from our out-of-universe perspective. If anything I would say it could be more or less a subtle nod to the fans who refuse to accept Cortana's death. Something Mr. O'Connor just confirmed in no uncertain terms earlier last month.

Again, I don't see how saying that what obviously happened did in fact happen could possibly be taken for a half-truth.

As I said before, of course it makes sense to involve Cortana in some way in the story of the next game. But it really is time to finish up the process of letting the character go - something I hope 'Halo 5' accomplishes so the story can continue to build off of the new characters we're seeing brought to the forefront. That inital trailer was confirmed a long time ago to be largely a "thought piece by the studio", and doesn't have any definitive bearing on actual canon (i.e. the presence of the data chip when it was in fact destroyed).
 

Monocle

Member
I'm probably done with this series if Cortana is completely gone for good. Her so-called resolution in Halo 4 wasn't satisfying or appropriate in the least, given the years of heavy hinting that she was a special AI with the potential to survive rampancy. I'm not about to accept that all of that was bullshit.

From a gameplay perspective, it's nice to have Cortana in your ear. I like how she guides you to objectives, reacts to what you're seeing, and drops story info in her comments. I absolutely love Jen Taylor's VA work. Cortana and Chief have an enjoyable dynamic. Chief is not as interesting to me on his own. Cortana's constant presence is one of the many reasons Halo CE's campaign is still the best, or at least my favorite. I'd also add that the Cortana focus is one of the saving graces of Halo 4's largely disappointing campaign.
 
given the years of heavy hinting that she was a special AI with the potential to survive rampancy. I'm not about to accept that all of that was bullshit.

Exactly. There's been a lot of setup for those areas to be explored. I suppose if not her, then perhaps BB, but... I don't see this being the true end of the line for a character who hasn't completed her arc.

I definitely won't be done with this series if she's gone for good. I just enjoy Halo and the richness of the lore. If 343 decides that she's done, then their stories to be told will either justify it or they won't. If they decide that she isn't done, there's a lot of story threads still incomplete that would involve her, so it wouldn't be a thing to blink at. Either way - it won't be a concern as far as pushing the narrative forward. They aren't making it up as they go along. They have a grand plan, with an endgame in place.
 

greenleafcm

Neo Member
I'm probably done with this series if Cortana is completely gone for good. Her so-called resolution in Halo 4 wasn't satisfying or appropriate in the least, given the years of heavy hinting that she was a special AI with the potential to survive rampancy. I'm not about to accept that all of that was bullshit.
You do realize that her inevitable decline into rampancy was foreshadowed as far back as the time of 'Halo 2' right? Nowhere in canon was it ever hinted that she was somehow able to overcome this particular obstacle. And how was her resolution not appropriate or satisfying? She stuck it out even though her own code was tearing itself apart, was one of the main reasons the villain's plans were thwarted, and got to say goodbye to the Chief while also having her wish to experience the real world granted. That is a better resolution than 99% of the characters that have been killed off in this franchise have gotten. What more could you possibly want - aside from her getting to be a super-special-snowflake that gets to break all previously established canon rules for human-made AIs? Give me a break...

Cortana's character arc came to an incredibly fitting end. And the story going forward is said to partially be about coming to grips with loss. This is an important subject to cover and something that shouldn't be waved away just because some people can't deal with not having their favorite character around any more.
 

greenleafcm

Neo Member
From a gameplay perspective, it's nice to have Cortana in your ear. I like how she guides you to objectives, reacts to what you're seeing, and drops story info in her comments. I absolutely love Jen Taylor's VA work. Cortana and Chief have an enjoyable dynamic. Chief is not as interesting to me on his own. Cortana's constant presence is one of the many reasons Halo CE's campaign is still the best, or at least my favorite. I'd also add that the Cortana focus is one of the saving graces of Halo 4's largely disappointing campaign.
Well guess what? Now you have three cool characters that not only can talk to you and give you objectives and story information, but also actually assist you in battle and follow your commands. Who also happen to have an extremely important connection to the Chief's story and character development going forward. And if that's not enough, you still get to hear Jen Taylor's voice work as she continues her role as Dr. Halsey.

A win-win all around if you ask me.
 

Monocle

Member
Exactly. There's been a lot of setup for those areas to be explored. I suppose if not her, then perhaps BB, but... I don't see this being the true end of the line for a character who hasn't completed her arc.
Yeah, I sure hope so.

I definitely won't be done with this series if she's gone for good. I just enjoy Halo and the richness of the lore. If 343 decides that she's done, then their stories to be told will either justify it or they won't. If they decide that she isn't done, there's a lot of story threads still incomplete that would involve her, so it wouldn't be a thing to blink at. Either way - it won't be a concern as far as pushing the narrative forward. They aren't making it up as they go along. They have a grand plan, with an endgame in place.
I've never been a big FPS fan. Halo CE initially drew me in with its setting, then the deep lore that really dedicated fans dug into on halo.bungie.org's story page kept me engaged just as much as the gameplay. Since Reach, Halo has drifted away from a lot of the things I value in the series. Many of 343's art style changes and new contributions, especially the Forerunner stuff, are big turn offs. Halsey's character has been dragged through the mud, and now Cortana was possibly killed off before her potential was explored. It's a little much.

There are a lot of good stories left to tell in Halo's universe, I'm sure. I just don't know if I'll want to stay on board if yet another of the things I like about the series is changed beyond recognition or outright destroyed. If I do end up giving up on Halo, it will be for the pattern of design missteps and annoying story turns that started with Reach, not just Cortana's fate.

You do realize that her inevitable decline into rampancy was foreshadowed as far back as the time of 'Halo 2' right? Nowhere in canon was it ever hinted that she was somehow able to overcome this particular obstacle. And how was her resolution not appropriate or satisfying? She stuck it out even though her own code was tearing itself apart, was one of the main reasons the villain's plans were thwarted, and got to say goodbye to the Chief while also having her wish to experience the real world granted. That is a better resolution than 99% of the characters that have been killed off in this franchise have gotten. What more could you possibly want - aside from her getting to be a super-special-snowflake that gets to break all previously established canon rules for human-made AIs? Give me a break...

Cortana's character arc came to an incredibly fitting end. And the story going forward is said to partially be about coming to grips with loss. This is an important subject to cover and something that shouldn't be waved away just because some people can't deal with not having their favorite character around any more.
That's exactly what I want, because like I said before, it was hinted at for years, in various books and Halsey's journal. Maybe some terminals, but I can't say for sure.

If you don't like that direction for her character, fine. But the story would support it, and I'm certainly not the only one who would appreciate Cortana's evolution into a new kind of AI with a longer lifespan.

Well guess what? Now you have three cool characters that not only can talk to you and give you objectives and story information, but also actually assist you in battle and follow your commands. Who also happen to have an extremely important connection to the Chief's story and character development going forward. And if that's not enough, you still get to hear Jen Taylor's voice work as she continues her role as Dr. Halsey.

A win-win all around if you ask me.
Nah. Blue Team can't replace Cortana. It's a whole different dynamic. One I'll be happy to see explored in a game, finally, but undeniably different. And Halsey's a different character than Cortana altogether, with a very different role in the story and a very different relationship with the Chief.
 

greenleafcm

Neo Member
That's exactly what I want, because like I said before, it was hinted at for years in various books and Halsey's journal. Maybe some terminals, but I can't say for sure.

If you don't like that direction for her character, fine. But the story would support it, and I'm certainly not the only one who would appreciate Cortana's evolution into a new kind of AI with a longer lifespan.
Can you offer any specific citations for that? Because I can't recall a single time in canon where Cortana was said to somehow have the capacity to beat rampancy (which she clearly did not have in 'Halo 4'). Dr. Halsey's journal says many things about AI potential and limitations - but Cortana's creation is in no way chronicled to make her somehow able to exceed those limitations in a way that is completely unprecedented for a human-made AI. And the book 'First Strike' covers how Cortana's interactions with Forerunner data on the Halo actually sped up her decline.

How would implausibly granting Cortana a longer lifespan fix anything? She'd still be an AI and unable to fully experience the real world. Not to mention that would mean she'd then inevitably outlive all her human friends as well. How is that better than her bowing out of the story on her own terms, having her purpose and desires fulfilled, and leaving an impact on those she interacted with? Granting her a reprieve from death is simply not the answer.

Nah. Blue Team can't replace Cortana. It's a whole different dynamic. One I'll be happy to see explored in a game, finally, but undeniably different. And Halsey's a different character than Cortana altogether, with a very different role in the story and a very different relationship with the Chief.
They may not necessarily be a "replacement" for Cortana's unique character attributes, but they are the next inevitable phase of exploring the Chief story-wise as we see him deal with with his own humanity. And what better way to deal with such a topic than to put him with the people he cares for and relates to the most? Also strictly in terms of gameplay they will be much more useful and dynamic to interact with than Cortana ever was due to the new squad command system.

I can't fault you for choosing not to continue with the series due to certain things you enjoyed in the past being changed. That's totally your right. But you have to also realize that's the nature of an evolving and progressive story - things change. 'Halo 4' set the stage for a major shift in the status quo in the Halo Universe, and Cortana's death was a big part of that. You can either deal with that fact, or you cant.
 
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