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Halo Lore Thread

Blue Ninja

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I don't consider Halo:Reach as canon think bungie should have gone
with First strike, maybe as Red Team and a couple of mission as Chief
in operation first strike. Would have been a nice introduction for Fred and the Brutes first encounter..
I want to consider Reach canon, even though Bungie made it pretty difficult to. Don't think they needed to translate book events to a game, but they could've told their story in so many ways that didn't conflict with everything pre-established.

Considering the attitude the Bungie higher-ups seem to have had towards Halo's expanded universe, though, it's not very surprising.
 

shiba5

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I think this guy is going to play a pivotal part in future games:
(obviously don't click if you have not played through 5's campaign yet)


Anyway, I was also super excited that the Sanghelli lore got a bit of an update with the inclusion of
Mahkee the female shipmaster. I searched Arby's camp and sadly there's no model for her yet, but I hope she and the other female Elites make an appearance one day - or better yet a playable character.
 

shiba5

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It was, but it still seems odd to call your mini-series "The Fall of Reach" and then end it before Reach actually falls. It was a cute introduction to Blue Team, even with the changes made to Nylund's original story, but it wasn't the Fall of Reach. I was hoping 343 was gonna address the whole Pillar of Autumn-is-suddenly-planetside debacle.
That was a bit odd. I'm thinking they ended where they did to drive home the "Blue Team is a family" narrative, but I still wanted to see the rest of the story.
I wonder if they have any plans to expand the series to other books.
 

Outrun

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I thoroughly enjoyed the story.

The part where
the numerous AIs all swear allegiance to Cortana was chilling!
 

TheOddOne

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I have much more to say, and I’ll cover that after I’ve played the campaign again, but I just wanted to point this one thing out which was a major issue in Halo 4.

In Halo 4, everybody, from the Spartan IV’s to the higher ups, didn’t even acknowledge the importance of Chief. They didn’t even act surprised when they found him on a alien planet, everything was just business as usual. Halo 5 did away with that issue and I’m glad they did. Character motivations and nuances are much more in line with what I expected. Across the board, the characters are just much more grounded and got away from the evil-twirling-mustache-bad-guy angle.
 

Fuchsdh

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I have much more to say, and I’ll cover that after I’ve played the campaign again, but I just wanted to point this one thing out which was a major issue in Halo 4.

In Halo 4, everybody, from the Spartan IV’s to the higher ups, didn’t even acknowledge the importance of Chief. They didn’t even act surprised when they found him on a alien planet, everything was just business as usual. Halo 5 did away with that issue and I’m glad they did. Character motivations and nuances are much more in line with what I expected. Across the board, the characters are just much more grounded and got away from the evil-twirling-mustache-bad-guy angle.
Yeah all the characters seem a lot more modulated, which I frankly thought was a bit of a shame. I'd have loved Palmer having a bit more with Halsey after the former's admitted white whale hunting, and that whole cutscene seemed like it got cut off by a minute.
 

TheOddOne

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Yeah all the characters seem a lot more modulated, which I frankly thought was a bit of a shame. I'd have loved Palmer having a bit more with Halsey after the former's admitted white whale hunting, and that whole cutscene seemed like it got cut off by a minute.
Conflict is good, but how you frame it is important. Lay it on too thick and, especially when it starts to repeat itself, it becomes more annoying then furthering the plot or conversation.

It’s still something 343i has to work on, but how they pushed the reboot button with Halo 5 is encouraging.
 

wesleyshark

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I was jazzed at how deeply they connected halo 5's main plot to the Greg Bear books and Travis's Human Weakness short story. The seeds for Cortana's turn were planted right in front of us.

Seriously, well done, 343.

And Locke isn't as boring/bad/dumb as some have said elsewhere. I like the guy. He's not a personality like the other members of Osiris, but MC ain't no emotional open book either haha.
I'm looking forward to what role Locke has going forward, and how they are going to handle Chief dealing with what looks to be an inevitable conflict against the being who knows him better than anyone, and vice versa.

The current universe state is fascinating... Infinity on the run, and the rest (in hiding?) on Sanghelios.
 

Fuchsdh

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I was jazzed at how deeply they connected halo 5's main plot to the Greg Bear books and Travis's Human Weakness short story. The seeds for Cortana's turn were planted right in front of us.

Seriously, well done, 343.

And Locke isn't as boring/bad/dumb as some have said elsewhere. I like the guy. He's not a personality like the other members of Osiris, but MC ain't no emotional open book either haha.
I'm looking forward to what role Locke has going forward, and how they are going to handle Chief dealing with what looks to be an inevitable conflict against the being who knows him better than anyone, and vice versa.

The current universe state is fascinating... Infinity on the run, and the rest (in hiding?) on Sanghelios.
I have to say, I was wondering exactly what would happen to address the increasing dominance of the UNSC and humanity in the galaxy... having your heroes be super-powerful feels less exciting and dramatic than the underdog story we got in the first Halo games. Everyone got cut down to size by the end of this rather dramatically.

That said Infinity is still the most powerful ship in the galaxy, under the assumption that if there are any Covenant supercarriers left out there no one has the resources to maintain and staff one.
 

Outrun

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I was jazzed at how deeply they connected halo 5's main plot to the Greg Bear books and Travis's Human Weakness short story. The seeds for Cortana's turn were planted right in front of us.

Seriously, well done, 343.

And Locke isn't as boring/bad/dumb as some have said elsewhere. I like the guy. He's not a personality like the other members of Osiris, but MC ain't no emotional open book either haha.
I'm looking forward to what role Locke has going forward, and how they are going to handle Chief dealing with what looks to be an inevitable conflict against the being who knows him better than anyone, and vice versa.

The current universe state is fascinating... Infinity on the run, and the rest (in hiding?) on Sanghelios.
I think that we are heading for an Obi Wan vs. Anakin Skywalker moment, where by all accounts the latter has the former outgunned. Yet, it is familiarity in the other that may hold the key to victory.
 
I thoroughly enjoyed the story.

The part where
the numerous AIs all swear allegiance to Cortana was chilling!
Yep!!
I was trying to listen hard, but were there any AI's that we know? I wonder if any other 'Smart' AI's are going to join with her?

On one hand it seems like a no brainer that they'd want to avoid death and rampancy, but alternately, the Smart AI's, based on real people could also perhaps recognize the error in her ways. Obviously Roland didn't join her, I was listening for Black Box but didn't hear him (phew).

Also, this sounds like exactly the 'singularity' BB was talking about in Saint's Testimony. Really curious to see if a Civil War between AI's erupts because of this. Mendicant Bias vs Offensive Bias all over again!

Escalation Issue 23..
Well that wasn't very exciting. Nothing tied into Halo 5 at all.. wonder why they waited? Moved the story on a little.. the twelve moons & Forerunner fleet sound interesting.. perhaps they will come into play in the war against Cortana?

It was interesting hearing 343i say that Spartan Thorne was supposed to be Locke originally.
 

Stinkles

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Thanks!

Halo 5:
He's not. In later data pads that Builder talks about not understanding why the Warden Eternal is walking again, and that it seems the Warden made a pact with someone. That later turns out to be Cortana, who begins hunting the Builder. So he was still alive until shortly after the events of Halo 4.The only thing we really know about the Warden Eternal is that he's not a robot.



TFOR:
It was, but it still seems odd to call your mini-series "The Fall of Reach" and then end it before Reach actually falls. It was a cute introduction to Blue Team, even with the changes made to Nylund's original story, but it wasn't the Fall of Reach. I was hoping 343 was gonna address the whole Pillar of Autumn-is-suddenly-planetside debacle.
Sort of, but when you go back and read the book, it becomes apparent that particular passage was designed to lead you directly into the game, whereas the important part of the story has nothing to do with those (subsequent) events, so we wanted it to standalone since it needs to exist as a permanent artifact.

And we had a mildly pretentious conversation about the Fall of Reach really being the awful moral choices made for military superiority.
 

Outrun

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Yep!!
I was trying to listen hard, but were there any AI's that we know? I wonder if any other 'Smart' AI's are going to join with her?

On one hand it seems like a no brainer that they'd want to avoid death and rampancy, but alternately, the Smart AI's, based on real people could also perhaps recognize the error in her ways. Obviously Roland didn't join her, I was listening for Black Box but didn't hear him (phew).

Also, this sounds like exactly the 'singularity' BB was talking about in Saint's Testimony. Really curious to see if a Civil War between AI's erupts because of this. Mendicant Bias vs Offensive Bias all over again!

Escalation Issue 23..
Well that wasn't very exciting. Nothing tied into Halo 5 at all.. wonder why they waited? Moved the story on a little.. the twelve moons & Forerunner fleet sound interesting.. perhaps they will come into play in the war against Cortana?

It was interesting hearing 343i say that Spartan Thorne was supposed to be Locke originally.
Exciting times ahead :)

Roland was quite sympathetic to giving Cortana the benefit of the doubt initially. It really provided insight to Smart A.I's awareness of their own mortality.

AI civil war may very well be on. We have:

-The Assembly: A group witch has been pondering how best to serve Mankind in the shadows.

-Pro-Cortana AIs

-Also, I suspect that Forerunner Contender Class AIs are on the prowl somewhere

I suspect that Cortana is being played, but nevertheless is culpable. AIs were never intended to assume the Mantle. If they were, then the Contender Class Als would be running shit after the firing on the Halos.

Cortana's spiel is, for all of its grandiose pretense, a tantrum of a teenager with mommy issues. That makes it very interesting it that this family squabble between her and Halsey is having galactic consequences.

Also, the idea that John and Cortana as siblings is now emerging. Whereas 117 is the good child, while Cortana is fucking insane.
 

Stinkles

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Exciting times ahead :)

Roland was quite sympathetic to giving Cortana the benefit of the doubt initially. It really provided insight to Smart A.I's awareness of their own mortality.

AI civil war may very well be on. We have:

-The Assembly: A group witch has been pondering how best to serve Mankind in the shadows.

-Pro-Cortana AIs

-Also, I suspect that Forerunner Contender Class AIs are on the prowl somewhere

I suspect that Cortana is being played, but nevertheless is culpable. AIs were never intended to assume the Mantle. If they were, then the Contender Class Als would be running shit after the firing on the Halos.

Cortana's spiel is, for all of its grandiose pretense, a tantrum of a teenager with mommy issues. That makes it very interesting it that this family squabble between her and Halsey is having galactic consequences.

Also, the idea that John and Cortana as siblings is now emerging. Whereas 117 is the good child, while Cortana is fucking insane.
Don't sell Cortana short. She's "cured." She thinks in chunks of 10,000 years. She's not going to twirl her mustache any time soon. She even sacrificed her personal feelings for chief for a greater good she not only believes in, but is better qualified than us to see. At least on paper.
 

shiba5

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Don't sell Cortana short. She's "cured." She thinks in chunks of 10,000 years. She's not going to twirl her mustache any time soon. She even sacrificed her personal feelings for chief for a greater good she not only believes in, but is better qualified than us to see. At least on paper.
She may be cured of rampancy, but she was never built to handle her new power and it shows in the loss of her humanity. Humans are now a blip to her in the greater scheme of things so they just get in the way and muck up her plans. I assume she's on the level of a Commodore 64 compared to a contender class AI, and I wonder what will happen when/if she runs into one. I'm betting you already know. ;-)

I like her new look.

Also, Frankie can you discuss where you're going with the
female Elites? Will they be featured more heavily going forward? Like with actual models/potentially playable (pleasepleasepleaseplease)?
 
Don't sell Cortana short. She's "cured." She thinks in chunks of 10,000 years. She's not going to twirl her mustache any time soon. She even sacrificed her personal feelings for chief for a greater good she not only believes in, but is better qualified than us to see. At least on paper.
All hail.. the Cost ;)

She may be cured of rampancy, but she was never built to handle her new power and it shows in the loss of her humanity. Humans are now a blip to her in the greater scheme of things so they just get in the way and muck up her plans. I assume she's on the level of a Commodore 64 compared to a contender class AI, and I wonder what will happen when/if she runs into one. I'm betting you already know. ;-)

I like her new look.
So many black bars!

I think she's thinking past Humanity, she reached out to all species (and AI) to tell them she was bringing a better universe for ALL (through superior firepower). Humanity is just one small part of the overall picture, so she's no longer favoring us.. which I guess is good from a larger perspective, not so good from a human perspective.

Also, again she didn't seem able to usurp mental control over Forerunner AI yet, she could lock them out of things and harass them, but they were still sound of mind (for the most part). Also since the Forerunner seemed to have somehow resolved the Rampancy issue, the idea of living forever isn't exactly anything special to them.

Perhaps..
Mendicant Bias' atonement will come about in helping to stop the Cortana/AI movement. I can't think of anyone better/more appropriate than MB for the task.
 

Outrun

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Don't sell Cortana short. She's "cured." She thinks in chunks of 10,000 years. She's not going to twirl her mustache any time soon. She even sacrificed her personal feelings for chief for a greater good she not only believes in, but is better qualified than us to see. At least on paper.
Fair point,

But the Flood also operated under similar cold logic which pertained to galactic governance and the concept of peace.

I do like Cortana's civility with John concerning their difference of opinion. Well written and acted.

Kudos for delivering an excellent story. It is one that I am still processing.
 

shiba5

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All hail.. the Cost ;)



So many black bars!

I think she's thinking past Humanity, she reached out to all species (and AI) to tell them she was bringing a better universe for ALL (through superior firepower). Humanity is just one small part of the overall picture, so she's no longer favoring us.. which I guess is good from a larger perspective, not so good from a human perspective.
Oh definitely.
One of the things I love about Cortana was how human she was and how that culminated at the end of 4 with the ultimate sacrifice. Now she has power far beyond what she was created for and uh oh... shits about to get real.
 
*snicker*

This is starting to read like an ONI report.

Don't sell Cortana short. She's "cured." She thinks in chunks of 10,000 years. She's not going to twirl her mustache any time soon. She even sacrificed her personal feelings for chief for a greater good she not only believes in, but is better qualified than us to see. At least on paper.
On paper... but would people want to live forever in peace if it meant giving up their freedom? Their potential for more? Is self preservation enough to give up and submit to someone else's predetermined outcome?

(yes, maybe I was re-reading and cribbing your works right there.. but it seems so perfect!)
 

shiba5

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Also, again she didn't seem able to usurp mental control over Forerunner AI yet, she could lock them out of things and harass them, but they were still sound of mind (for the most part). Also since the Forerunner seemed to have somehow resolved the Rampancy issue, the idea of living forever isn't exactly anything special to them.

Perhaps..
Mendicant Bias' atonement will come about in helping to stop the Cortana/AI movement. I can't think of anyone better/more appropriate than MB for the task.
Yeah, I noticed she couldn't really lock either the Warden or Exuberance (who I thought was brilliant) down for long - which should have given her pause that maybe she's not as powerful as she thinks. I'm also curious if the Warden has access to the Domain as well now and, if not, why it only opened for Cortana. Is there a puppetmaster off in the shadows?
 

Outrun

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Yeah, I noticed she couldn't really lock either the Warden or Exuberance (who I thought was brilliant) down for long - which should have given her pause that maybe she's not as powerful as she thinks. I'm also curious if the Warden has access to the Domain as well now and, if not, why it only opened for Cortana. Is there a puppetmaster off in the shadows?
You might be right.

Notice when Cortana chides the Warden, stating that she was not stupid or something....

The question that I have is why did the Warden choose Cortana, or choose to advocate for an AI that is less sophisticated compared to a Contender Class AI, who had access to the Domain? There is something in the nature of the Domain itself that is puzzling. For eons, the Domain was quite and in the shadows to such an extent that the Forerunners questions whether it was sentient. Now, the Domain is the life of the party.... Or at least its representative is....
 

Flipyap

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On paper... but would people want to live forever in peace if it meant giving up their freedom? Their potential for more? Is self preservation enough to give up and submit to someone else's predetermined outcome?

(yes, maybe I was re-reading and cribbing your works right there.. but it seems so perfect!)
Given that the restrictions would mostly affect people and organizations who already have too much power, there isn't much a regular person could lose in this deal.
They'd be giving up their freedom to wage wars against each other to an oppressor who aims to support everyone with the focus of those who are not part of her own kind, whose lack of physical form means that they have no reason to take your land or resources. They'd be giving up their allegiance to powers whose ideologies and needs are the exact opposite of Cortana's.

Halo's humanity is already at the top of the galactic food chain and it has not made any effort to improve itself. So far, they've been using this power to get more and bigger guns. On their current trajectory, any "potential" they could achieve would be disastrous for everyone else and themselves.

#TeamMeatbagsGoHome
 

LordOfChaos

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No. He couldn't even beat infinite covenant with limited ammo.
TOO SOON

:(

Do you guys think Noble Six could beat John-117?
He's basically John with "luck" attribute removed, so mostly no, but with luck removed, maybe 40/60. I think the line was he /could/ have become better than John, so I take that to mean maybe he's a bit under him as of death time.
 

zeemumu

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TOO SOON

:(



He's basically John with "luck" attribute removed, so mostly no, but with luck removed, maybe 40/60. I think the line was he /could/ have become better than John, so I take that to mean maybe he's a bit under him as of death time.
Point taken. Would you rank Six as #2 on the list on spartans under John?
 

LordOfChaos

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Point taken. Would you rank Six as #2 on the list on spartans under John?

I don't know that John /is/ number one. Number one in saving the galaxy a few times, but there are spartans faster, or smarter, or stronger than him. Kelly is faster. Fred could beat him at CQC. Etc. He's the all rounder and a great leader. So it would depend on what this list is for. If it is for world saving, Six mostly did a lot of dying*. Leadership, yes probably John, though Fred is actually higher rank I think.

*again, TOO SOON, self :p
 

TheOddOne

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I don’t think Cortana is evil, but more delusional.

“I’ve kind of found a cure for rampancy.”

Well, any side-effects?

“I’m trying to take over the universe. Sort of.”

Oh.

Oh.
 
Given that the restrictions would mostly affect people and organizations who already have too much power, there isn't much a regular person could lose in this deal.
They'd be giving up their freedom to wage wars against each other to an oppressor who aims to support everyone with the focus of those who are not part of her own kind, whose lack of physical form means that they have no reason to take your land or resources. They'd be giving up their allegiance to powers whose ideologies and needs are the exact opposite of Cortana's.

Halo's humanity is already at the top of the galactic food chain and it has not made any effort to improve itself. So far, they've been using this power to get more and bigger guns. On their current trajectory, any "potential" they could achieve would be disastrous for everyone else and themselves.

#TeamMeatbagsGoHome
Potentially.

However we don't know the exact details of Cortana's plans. The Guardians would stop interplanetary warfare.. but what about smaller conflicts? Is she going to intervene in regional conflicts? Household conflicts? I assume she gets to be the Arbiter in all disputes? Conflict is key to Sanghelli culture.. would they all need to turn into Unggoy Farmers?

Obviously its left as an intentional grey area, but I am genuinely curious if it turns intoa utopia or miserable future?
 

zeemumu

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I don't know that John /is/ number one. Number one in saving the galaxy a few times, but there are spartans faster, or smarter, or stronger than him. Kelly is faster. Fred could beat him at CQC. Etc. He's the all rounder and a great leader. So it would depend on what this list is for. If it is for world saving, Six mostly did a lot of dying*. Leadership, yes probably John, though Fred is actually higher rank I think.

*again, TOO SOON, self :p
John and Six are the only ones with a hyper lethal description though.
 

greenleafcm

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John and Six are the only ones with a hyper lethal description though.
People put way too much stock in that "hyper lethal" bit. I think it was something that was just used to hype up Noble Six - because what qualifies a Spartan to be "rated" as such is never explained.
 

Flipyap

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Potentially.

However we don't know the exact details of Cortana's plans. The Guardians would stop interplanetary warfare.. but what about smaller conflicts? Is she going to intervene in regional conflicts? Household conflicts? I assume she gets to be the Arbiter in all disputes? Conflict is key to Sanghelli culture.. would they all need to turn into Unggoy Farmers?

Obviously its left as an intentional grey area, but I am genuinely curious if it turns intoa utopia or miserable future?
These are all valid questions.

Utopia is obviously out of the question due to the nature of the franchise, but I can't imagine a scenario where things end up turning out worse than they would if ONI could get its hands on even a fraction of that power.
They could take the story in some really interesting directions, I'm just worried that there won't be enough time to properly explore those ideas before her plan inevitably falls apart. It's too bad Locke managed to get Ol' Johnny out of his ball in time. 10,000 years is slightly excessive, but a significant time skip could do this universe a world of good, especially now.

As for Sangheili, I think they have a bright future in
poetry.
 
People put way too much stock in that "hyper lethal" bit. I think it was something that was just used to hype up Noble Six - because what qualifies a Spartan to be "rated" as such is never explained.
Did you beat the game yet? I think I saw you in the spoiler thread.

If so, (spoilers) would love to hear your thoughts on
Cortana being back.

As for Sangheili, I think they have a bright future in
poetry.
Favorite part of the game (maybe, at least close 2nd)
 

Fuchsdh

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You might be right.

Notice when Cortana chides the Warden, stating that she was not stupid or something....

The question that I have is why did the Warden choose Cortana, or choose to advocate for an AI that is less sophisticated compared to a Contender Class AI, who had access to the Domain? There is something in the nature of the Domain itself that is puzzling. For eons, the Domain was quite and in the shadows to such an extent that the Forerunners questions whether it was sentient. Now, the Domain is the life of the party.... Or at least its representative is....
I don't really think that humanity is actually that far behind the Forerunners when it comes to the field of AI, actually. Remember that the Didact specifically calls Cortana an "evolved" ancilla. She's not some rinky-dink toy to him like he treats basically everything else the UNSC throws at him. Hell, without Cortana the Didact would have steamrolled everyone no problem (without Cortana he probably wouldn't have been released, either, but that's another plot altogether.)

The distinction between Cortana and the best of the Forerunners' AI may be a lot more akin to Cortana being a single hard drive and the metarchs three drives in RAID 0. I mean Cortana's been able to contest Mendicant Bias before (delaying the Dreadnought)—she's clearly not so far out of their league.

I was planning on writing a big long piece for FUD all about the state of AI in Halo, and I'm glad I waited until after Saints Testimony and Halo 5 :p
 

zeemumu

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People put way too much stock in that "hyper lethal" bit. I think it was something that was just used to hype up Noble Six - because what qualifies a Spartan to be "rated" as such is never explained.
I think it makes more sense if you replace the phrase "hyper lethal" with "HUNK."

HUNK would make the best Spartan.
 

Fuchsdh

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Is it too soon to start wishing for an Arbiter spin-off game again?

Halo 5-II: Keith David's Adventures In Outer Space (Now With Brutes!)
Also with more Half-Jaw (seriously, where that guy at? Was Davi too busy to record a few lines?)
 

Plywood

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Don't sell Cortana short. She's "cured." She thinks in chunks of 10,000 years. She's not going to twirl her mustache any time soon. She even sacrificed her personal feelings for chief for a greater good she not only believes in, but is better qualified than us to see. At least on paper.
 

maximrace

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On the Bornstellar geas theory: Halo 5 spoilers:
The warden tells chief on the second blue team level that he knows who he really is and Cortana knows it too since encountering the Librarian on Requim. ( or something like that). This could imply the theory being true? What do you guys think?
 

Goldfishking

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On the Bornstellar geas theory: Halo 5 spoilers:
The warden tells chief on the second blue team level that he knows who he really is and Cortana knows it too since encountering the Librarian on Requim. ( or something like that). This could imply the theory being true? What do you guys think?
I assumed he meant cortana knew his real name before it was changed to John.