Garrett 2U
Member
I think Bungie said they designed The Arena to eliminate boosting and cheating.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo |OT2| Hyper-Athletic Speed And Mass And Weight and Power
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I think Bungie said they designed The Arena to eliminate boosting and cheating.
Reach is using pure Trueskill, not Halo 3's modified Trueskill. The ranks wouldn't go in order even if they displayed them.
I really liked those. Too late to add something like that to Reach though.
Steelyuhas
Member
Visible number ranks in Halo 3 used trueskill, you say that works. Then you say trueskill doesn't work.
It's not about trueskill, it's about how much the matchmaking system emphasizes trueskill when matching players up. Halo 3 ranked and social both used truskill, but ranked put a lot of emphasis on trueskill, getting you better skill matches than social.
I totally understand wanting a ranking system, but that doesn't give you population. Playlist population in ranked playlists are always lower than in social/unranked ones.
PAX East goers, did you say that you like candies? WOOT! That's in my baggage:
I'm looking forward to PAX
Gabotron ES
Member
Per playlist millitary ranks were pretty awesome.
Garrett 2U
Member
VOTE PENANCE!
Steelyuhas
Member
Anniversary is optional so you'll never see it!
Two games of it so far today. First was Countdown Slayer, second was Flag Zealot against a TO4 (fucking awesome). Everyone quit within a couple of minutes on my team.
Taking me a bit to get used to zero bloom, honestly haven't played it that much. Settings are good, but the playlist is going to ruin it. (Matching up against TO4 all day, Slayer always top option, DLC will not show).
If only we had a disc.. a mythical disc that came out after Reach's DLC output was done and had all the maps on it.
I still think pulling a KillZone 3 would be a good idea.
Gabotron ES
Member
Steelyuhas
Member
If only we had matchmaking algorithm's that worked!
But yes, that disc would have been nice.
Third game in the MLG playlist, two members of the team quit a few minutes in, unbreakable 2v4 spawn trap on Sanctuary.
Played 2 matches and the options haven't popped yet
All I want is..
You won't see it.
Another match on this terrible Sanctuary. Ugh, this is not fun.
Watching BTB drop from 5k to 1k population when they accidentally required DLC on it was disappointing.
neoism
Member
because 1-50 is just as silly as a moon or an inheritor symbol besides your name.
thezerofire
Banned
oh, I meant it working in Reach
Bregmann Roche
Member
Change and experiment but only insomuch as it explores the foundation of the Halo Universe from both a gaming and fiction perspective.
ODST worked so well because it gave us another window into the Chief's world but from the perspective of someone who wasn't a total badass. The gameplay included straight forward action moments, as any Halo game should, but it also included the hub world which was more about mood and investigation. ODST presented a different enough set of challenges to keep it interesting and unique amongst games in the franchise while also fitting into that franchise perfectly.
and it was then that Dax realized the playlist manager at 343 is Michael Bay.
Yes! A clear delineation between "serious" playlists and "fun-times" playlists is a must for me in Halo 4 for exactly the reasons you stated.
Here's the crazy thing: if they claw back to the glory day populations then Halo 4 would be a relative failure. A higher install base means the 343 team needs to find a way to get bigger populations across all playlists if Halo 4 is to be as much of a success as its predecessors. I think they will do it and some kind of rank system will be involved, but it's weird to think that the same population as Halo 3 means mediocre and Halo 2 population means failure.
Steelyuhas
Member
Wow it was that bad?
Yeah, so the reason it doesn't work very well is because it is basically set to Halo 3 'Social' levels/get the players into a game very quickly.
Whew, got through that MLG game without quitters. The need for correct lines of sight on Sanctuary is even more painfully obvious with zero bloom, hopefully they correct that map for the next version of settings (assuming MLG uses Reach at the next event). About to start the fifth game, no DLC has shown.
wat
no its not. You could judge someone's skill with the 1-50 scale. Now all you can tell is how much someone plays
thezerofire
Banned
Yes, exactly why (in my opinion) there needs to be a ranked/social split again
Kibbles
Member
lol can't forget the noob bars in Halo 3
HALO 4 RANK INFO by u4iX. (speculation)
We are all friends here, so please take this as an actual compliment. You have one of the deepest understandings of game systems and in particular, Halo's of anyone here. And you're super confident in your opinions and knowledge. However, that means about 20% of the time, you make statements, brusquely, firmly and with authority, that are completely untrue.
That makes a lot of your otherwise really good and compelling insights colored by that aspect and occasionally erroneous understanding of either facts or philosophies. And like me and everyone else here, you often express opinions as immutable facts too.
But I am quite serious in saying you should take this feedback as a compliment, overall.
Steelyuhas
Member
1-50 in Halo 3, basically like a leaderboard in Reach. (I believe, someone correct if I'm wrong.)
ncsuDuncan
Member
Truth.
Fyre brings a lot of Halo engine knowledge to the table, but sometimes that just makes it easier to poke fun at him when he's wrong (even if the mistake was based on a logical assumption).
-------
Fun fact:
- Play CEA with Kinect voice commands on. Say "Fyrewulff". Master Chief throws a grenade.
I thought Frank and David were trolling, but it's just Kinect thinking it heard "fireball".
Garrett 2U
Member
Why does he have to assume things like 1-50 confirmation based on a joke?
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Gabotron ES
Member
Yeah, 1-50 brought cheating and boosting to the table, I'd rather have a mix of both (3 and Reach's systems).
Poker Face
Member
I THOUGHT EVERYTHING HALO4FOLLOWER SAID WAS TRUE!!!!
ಠ_ಠ
Every system has cheating. IMO Halo 2's was the best, and would be even better now with the new and improved banhammer.
You'd rather not have a competitive game than have a handful of boosters?
I'd take being able to match with people within my skill range rather then the weird "oh here have some idiots" matching Reach usually does, especially with the way cheating detection has improved over the years.
I looked at their stats.
ncsuDuncan
Member
There was one Halo4Follower video where he literally just read the Q/A section from one of the Halo Bulletins. No analysis or gathering of multiple sources, just him reading the text on the page. The entire video could have been replaced by a link and a text-to-speech plugin.
Greenskull does the same thing occasionally, but he at least creates original content for some of his videos. (And he seemed friendly at HaloFest.)
I almost want to try my hand at making a Halo news video, but I fear that Halo4Follower's audience actually enjoys being fed baseless rumors and rampant speculation.
Greenskull does the same thing occasionally, but he at least creates original content for some of his videos. (And he seemed friendly at HaloFest.)
I almost want to try my hand at making a Halo news video, but I fear that Halo4Follower's audience actually enjoys being fed baseless rumors and rampant speculation.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
1-50 was an excellent ranking system for Halo. The only problem was that when it worked well, it was plauged by cheaters/modders (Halo 2).
When it wasn't plauged by cheaters/modders, it had alt account users, the system was tied to the XP rank, and the system stalled on leveling you up after a certain point.
I hope the 1-50 system comes back for Halo 4, but just more fluid in how fast it can go up and down and not tied to the XP leveling system Halo 4 will undoubtedly have.
When it wasn't plauged by cheaters/modders, it had alt account users, the system was tied to the XP rank, and the system stalled on leveling you up after a certain point.
I hope the 1-50 system comes back for Halo 4, but just more fluid in how fast it can go up and down and not tied to the XP leveling system Halo 4 will undoubtedly have.
The Henery
Member
Laugh at the gall of posters who think trueskill, unmodified ala Reach, is appropriate and acceptable for Halo 4 AND vehemently oppose the return of ranked playlists.
I'll post a game from today (I never have to go outside the current days play to prove this point).
I've played over a thousand games of Team Snipers
Earlier on I was matched with and against four players who haven't played a thousand games of Reach cumulatively and their three respective guests. This was the result:
It's still trueskill right? It's just loosening its restrictions in order to attain the most favourable networking conditions....
Yea, at that point it ceases to be a meaningful matching system and utterly fails the inexperienced/bad players of the game.
Two things:
1. Prevent guests from entering the list and tighten up skill matching to ensure more equal games.
2. Put the fucking number next to the players tag because, shock horror, players care about their e-penis. That's a reality. And if that makes them try, put a mic in to call out, not quit at the first sign of losing and not ride a mongoose across the map for a 'laugh' then Halo is in a better state as a game for it.
I'll post a game from today (I never have to go outside the current days play to prove this point).
I've played over a thousand games of Team Snipers
Earlier on I was matched with and against four players who haven't played a thousand games of Reach cumulatively and their three respective guests. This was the result:
It's still trueskill right? It's just loosening its restrictions in order to attain the most favourable networking conditions....
Yea, at that point it ceases to be a meaningful matching system and utterly fails the inexperienced/bad players of the game.
Two things:
1. Prevent guests from entering the list and tighten up skill matching to ensure more equal games.
2. Put the fucking number next to the players tag because, shock horror, players care about their e-penis. That's a reality. And if that makes them try, put a mic in to call out, not quit at the first sign of losing and not ride a mongoose across the map for a 'laugh' then Halo is in a better state as a game for it.
bobs...onGaf
Member
This.
Social playlists and Ranked playlists will allow for people to mongoose around the map for a laugh without affecting the people who take the game competitivly. Unless they are trolling, but without the ranked and social divide every game of Reach has the potential for trolling atm.
Poker Face
Member
Laugh at the gall of posters who think trueskill, unmodified ala Reach, is appropriate and acceptable for Halo 4 AND vehemently oppose the return of ranked playlists.
I'll post a game from today (I never have to go outside the current days play to prove this point).
I've played over a thousand games of Team Snipers
Earlier on I was matched with and against four players who haven't played a thousand games of Reach cumulatively and their three respective guests. This was the result:
It's still trueskill right? It's just loosening its restrictions in order to attain the most favourable networking conditions....
Yea, at that point it ceases to be a meaningful matching system and utterly fails the inexperienced/bad players of the game.
Two things:
1. Prevent guests from entering the list and tighten up skill matching to ensure more equal games.
2. Put the fucking number next to the players tag because, shock horror, players care about their e-penis. That's a reality. And if that makes them try, put a mic in to call out, not quit at the first sign of losing and not ride a mongoose across the map for a 'laugh' then Halo is in a better state as a game for it.
I have a feeling we're most likely going to get another Reach system with a new Arena :/
Hitmonchan107
Member
Too much to do. Not enough time.
When will Edge reveal its cover story?
When will Edge reveal its cover story?
The Henery
Member
Reach was built from the ground up to facilitate trolling. AL, Evade, CAMO!!!, no bleedthrough, Revenant glitch, no ranks, guests, The Banshee... I could go on.
Arena's not a bad system, really. Problem is, it's limited to one slayer list and the rank is only visible in The Arena itself. Many players have called for Arena ranking in other playlists but it's not been implemented.
I think the problem with exposing the TrueSkill number as a rank in Halo 2 was, as you said, capped out at the player's skill level. People treated it like a rank to earn, when it was really a tool for matchmaking. Whatever system is in place in Halo 4 needs to be totally divorced from that kind of ranking.
Not yet. Probably late this week or early next.
Poker Face
Member
This. Modding/standbying wasn't common unless you were playing ranked games of 44+ in Halo 2. Me being the awful player I was, got matched with cheaters very rarely, and my highest rank was a 25. and I was damn proud of that 25.
BackdoorBeauty
Member
+1 vote for a 1-50 visible next to your name. I loved the competitive nature of rankings.. Recruit or Inheritor, all that shows is you play the game a lot.. it doesn't reflect your skill at all. Motivation to improve: Non-existant.
The arena ranking system is far superior to that of a 1-50, simply because of the granularity afforded by your rankings within divisions.
The only problem is, as people have already reiterated, it is in one slayer playlist in a sea of other playlists. If all competitive playlists tied together to form your arena ranking/division, and it showed your numerical rating and your division badge next to your name at all times, people might care about it more.
The only problem is, as people have already reiterated, it is in one slayer playlist in a sea of other playlists. If all competitive playlists tied together to form your arena ranking/division, and it showed your numerical rating and your division badge next to your name at all times, people might care about it more.
thezerofire
Banned
why would it?
Similar threads
- Locked