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[Proelite]

I mean it's mostly opinion but most apart from HaloGAF would vote for AI from the Half Life, Fear and Far Cry games (maybe Crysis) before Halo.

EDIT: More recently, Arma 2 has been drawing attention.

Crysis has pretty dumb AI, but excusable for the amount of stuff they have to beaware of.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Crysis has pretty dumb AI, but excusable for the amount of stuff they have to beaware of.

Yeah. Far Cry was much better - on PCs, at least. The console AI was dumb as shit. On the PC they were ridiculous at suppressive fire and flanking. Very tough.

 

[Mad Max]

Yeah. Far Cry was much better - on PCs, at least. The console AI was dumb as shit. On the PC they were ridiculous at suppressive fire and flanking. Very tough.

Far Cry's AI was worse than CoD though, since they could see you through solid rock from 2 miles away, and once they saw you you where praticly dead since they had perfect aim and always found you.

Crysis has far better AI, but when you start using silenced weapons it sort of falls apart. (try playing without silencers on delta difficulty, it's awesome)

 

[Cuban Legend]

Just want to chime in and let you all know that this weekends HaloGAF Customs is going to be HUGE. I think we might have to split it into two parts, one on Friday night, and one on Saturday night. XD

Two reasons, Lazlo has refined his gametypes and found more awesome maps/updated versions of current favorites for HaloGAF to paruse through.

And I've just had a major breakthrough in my "Classic Halo1/2 Remake/Throwback Map Hunt". As I've acquired almost a dozen cherry-picked gems, tweaked for HaloGAF. I Beleive HaloGAF will find they fit very well as part of the grand "HaloGAF Customs Halo 3 Goodbye Tour" I'd assume begins officially on the 14th of of August.

Updated:So, if you are online and see me in Forge/Customs during the week, and you want to preview the sweetness I've got lined up for this weekend, (or just wanna hang around/playtest a map with me for a bit) then feel free to join my game. XBLGT same as GAF.

 

[Slightly Live]

Congrats to Bungie for passing the final milestone. Can't wait until next month.

 

[The Librarian]

Looks like Halo: Reach went Gold yesterday, according to Joe Tung:

Nice.

I mean it's mostly opinion but most apart from HaloGAF would vote for AI from the Half Life, Fear and Far Cry games (maybe Crysis) before Halo.

Half-Life's AI isn't that great. The Combine mostly stand there and let you shoot them...unless it's different on PC.

What the fuck, every Halo has plenty of sniper traps you have to be aware of anyways...

Um, no. Not Halo 1. It's one the design decisions I appreciate about Halo 1...the Covenant don't have a sniper. Fighting against Covenant with snipers is probably the only common encounter in the Halo games that I dislike.

Seeing a lot of Reach commercials on Discovery Channel and Comedy Central.

 

[metareferential]

It's incredible how people keep confusing good AI and difficulty.

CoD aimbot are clever now?

Dear god. :lol

On topic: the game is gold, 39 days to go.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Half-Life's AI isn't that great. The Combine mostly stand there and let you shoot them...unless it's different on PC.

HL1 on PC. Revolutionary and one of the first to use military progression tactics.

 

[Photolysis]

Don't Bungie normally announce themselves when they've gone gold?

Either way, congrats guys!

 

[Hypertrooper]

It's incredible how people keep confusing good AI and difficulty.

CoD aimbot are clever now?

Dear god. :lol

On topic: the game is gold, 39 days to go.

18 days to go for the france. :lol If you leak it again france, we will attack you!

From Geoffkeighley Twitter:

@martytheelder I hear I may be seeing you and the golden egg tomorrow?

http://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/20394313842

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Don't Bungie normally announce themselves when they've gone gold?

Either way, congrats guys!

I'm sure it'll be mentioned in the BWU tomorrow night, but it was Tung who (was quoted as having) said it, that counts in my book.

Hey, if it leaks by Gamescom I'll take a (long) train over and pick up a copy. :lol

 

[Lazslo]

Congrats to Bungie on their major achievement, hope everyone there has a well deserved vacation. On a pointless sidenote; It would be interesting when bungie starts their DLC for Reach to document their map making process and show it off in a ViDoc maybe on Waypoint. If they showed the process from simple napkin/white board thoughts, to the mass-out phase, to the overall design- this would be really great to show their fans how something like a multiplayer map is developed and changes over time.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Congrats Bungie, can't wait to play it, also I hope we get one last final vidoc that sends Halo out with a bang.

 

[Gareth Bale]

I posted it quite early this morning, so does anyone know the answer to this?

Which brings me to an important question... can you set up firefight maps for slayer variants? Overlook was set up for 3vs3 generator defense, so what good reason would there be to not let you play slayer variants on those maps (i.e. forge them for team slayer). Please tell me this is possible, because not being able to forge them for firefight makes sense. But if you want to forge them for team slayer, or at the very least play team slayer on them, then why why why WHY not?

 

[Louis Wu]

Don't Bungie normally announce themselves when they've gone gold?

Either way, congrats guys!

Seems to have happened at the end of the Seattle day (middle of the Australian morning); I'd guess Bungie will post about it today.

Edit:

I posted it quite early this morning, so does anyone know the answer to this?

Nobody has the answer to that (yet). Bungie has not discussed it, as far as I know.

 

[squidhands]

I posted it quite early this morning, so does anyone know the answer to this?

From what we know about Firefight maps not being Forge-able, I'd say the answer to your question is no. I'd love to be proven wrong, though...

 

[Captain Blood]

Awesome news, the wait for Reach becomes that much more difficult.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

If the marine AI wasn't so bad in CE, i doubt bungie wouldve worked so much on improving their AI throughout. So many people complained about how dumb marines were that they made such a great effort to improve them. I think sometimes developers are content with the quality of their AI that they dont go above and beyond. I think Halo's fans and Bungie itself is highly critical of the AI that they constantly make an effort to improve upon it.

 

[Domino Theory]

It's bitter sweet. It's the last Halo game from Bungie where we all got to experience the pre-release hype, bickering, "OMG this is so cool, OMG this sucks", etc.

New IP time now. Bungie is dead, long live Bungie.

 

[Genesis Knight]

If the marine AI wasn't so bad in CE, i doubt bungie wouldve worked so much on improving their AI throughout. So many people complained about how dumb marines were that they made such a great effort to improve them. I think sometimes developers are content with the quality of their AI that they dont go above and beyond. I think Halo's fans and Bungie itself is highly critical of the AI that they constantly make an effort to improve upon it.

For me all they needed to do with the CE marines was give them more health.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Congrats to everyone at Bungie, can't wait to play the culmination of the series.

September needs to hurry up and get here.

 

[electricpirate]

HL1 on PC. Revolutionary and one of the first to use military progression tactics.

I preferred the AI in Halo over Half Life, but Half life was probably more revolutionary for it's time.

Of course, there's so much more to AI design than just the AI routines themselves, for example the sound design in Half Life makes you totally aware of the AI's Mindset. Marines announce their every little move, and then you think they are smarter than they actually are.
"I'm Flanking!"
"Throwing Grenade!"

Another example of this is encounter design. For example, FEAR has great enemy AI, they are smart, take cover, and flank really well. Unfortunately, 90% of the encounters you face in the game are shootouts down long corridors where that AI never gets a chance to use anything but the "Duck in and out of cover" abilities.

I think Halo's real genius is how it uses an AI that appears smart, doesn't cheat, and uses it to force the player to plan and adapt. For example, while picking off Grunts is good strategy in a conflict, if you can quickly bring down an elite, you can scatter the lesser units. But then you miss, and you now know you need to re-adapt your strategy, because the Elite is in cover, and the grunts are laying down suppressing fire, with some jackals preventing you from getting an angle on that Elite in Cover.

 

[Feindflug]

As Shake Appeal said, Call of Duty (Veteran) AI isn't where it's at. In high school I made a game and it had AI that would kill the player goddamn dead every time. Wasn't any fun. Call of Duty is fun because the entire game is a scripted event with a bunch of smoke and mirrors - feels like a movie. But the AI isn't really doing anything other than stop and pop.

Halo AI isn't the best out there but it's a bit more dynamic - it challenges the player through numbers and gradual damage buildup without resorting to instakills just make the player redo a section for difficulty's sake, which is what CoD does.

Excuse my ignorance but which game has actually better, smarter, more challenging in a good way (especially in Legendary) AI than Halo's? From what I've played Halos and the first FEAR have the best enemy AI by far.

Also Halo's enemy AI is not only a bit more dynamic than CoD's it's a lot more dynamic.

The Campaign is absolutely going to surprise people in terms of what they have come to expect from a Halo campaign.

 

[S1kkZ]

congrats bungie! i hope we get a vidoc that shows the voice actors and the work on the soundtrack.

please.

 

[op_ivy]

I posted it quite early this morning, so does anyone know the answer to this?

i remember hearing, or reading, bungie saying that no, firefight maps were for firefight and not standard MP. don't ask for a link, i cant provide it.

 

[Major Williams]

I preferred the AI in Halo over Half Life, but Half life was probably more revolutionary for it's time.

Of course, there's so much more to AI design than just the AI routines themselves, for example the sound design in Half Life makes you totally aware of the AI's Mindset. Marines announce their every little move, and then you think they are smarter than they actually are.
"I'm Flanking!"
"Throwing Grenade!"

Another example of this is encounter design. For example, FEAR has great enemy AI, they are smart, take cover, and flank really well. Unfortunately, 90% of the encounters you face in the game are shootouts down long corridors where that AI never gets a chance to use anything but the "Duck in and out of cover" abilities.

I think Halo's real genius is how it uses an AI that appears smart, doesn't cheat, and uses it to force the player to plan and adapt. For example, while picking off Grunts is good strategy in a conflict, if you can quickly bring down an elite, you can scatter the lesser units. But then you miss, and you now know you need to re-adapt your strategy, because the Elite is in cover, and the grunts are laying down suppressing fire, with some jackals preventing you from getting an angle on that Elite in Cover.

Yup. And when that Hammer Chieftain comes barreling down in Firefight, unless you've got your wits about you, it's going to be a tough challenge (heroic and up that is).

i remember hearing, or reading, bungie saying that no, firefight maps were for firefight and not standard MP. don't ask for a link, i cant provide it.

I also heard this and can't remember where I heard it.

 

[Merguson]

Good news to hear that the game has gone gold, I'm interested to know what things they have in store for us with the campaign, especially when Joe Tung says that the campaign will surprise people in terms of what they have come to expect from a Halo campaign.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Excuse my ignorance but which game has actually better, smarter, more challenging in a good way (especially in Legendary) AI than Halo's? From what I've played Halos and the first FEAR have the best enemy AI by far.

As I said above, FEAR, Far Cry, Crysis, Half Life 1, Stalker...if you want to throw in bots as a qualifying category then the UT series. iD's Rage is already looking to take enemy AI behaviors and animation to a new level. The catch is that as people have already said all of these are games that focus more on linear progression and corridor-style environments (except for the Crytek games and Rage) than Halo does. So they're hard to compare.

Halo's AI is good and it is suited to the environments of the campaign and Firefight.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

So do we have any word or indication on what the After Hours event at Gamestops tomorrow actually is yet? I am going but if it is stuff that I can watch on the internet the next day I prefer to skip it. :lol

 

[Falagard]

Excuse my ignorance but which game has actually better, smarter, more challenging in a good way (especially in Legendary) AI than Halo's? From what I've played Halos and the first FEAR have the best enemy AI by far.

Also Halo's enemy AI is not only a bit more dynamic than CoD's it's a lot more dynamic.

Halo's AI rocks.

Most other FPS games have very little to worry about in terms of pathfinding. Most have fixed level geometry with no large moving obstacles that can block paths, all AI actors are the same size so no worry about calculating different paths for different sized actors, all AI actors are bipeds or at least move on the ground.

There are some exceptions of course - a few games with destructible levels and vehicles, or AI that is smaller or larger, and can fly.

Very few have everything that Halo has:

- Large dynamic obstacles like vehicles or downed Phantoms
- Vehicles galore, including AI that can drive the vehicles for the player, flying vehicles, etc.
- Varying sized AI actors, from small Flood infection forms (not in Reach necessarily) to lumbering Hunters, and even Scarabs.
- Flying AI such as Banshees, Phantoms and even Drones and AI that moves along any surface such as Flood infection forms
- Squad mechanics, leadership roles in AI, etc.

Halo really does have amazing AI that gets better with each game. From a player's perspective, there might be other games that have AI that is more fun to play with or against due to the scripted nature of the game, or because the gameplay is more basic, but from a technical perspective Halo's AI is nearly a masterpiece.

 

[Slightly Live]

Halo 2 maps reborn for Halo: Reach

Fan of the maps "Ivory Tower" and "Midship" from Halo 2? Great news -- Bungie has reworked those maps for the upcoming Halo: Reach.

The map known as "Reflection" in Halo: Reach is said to be a near-perfect remake of "Ivory Tower," the main differences being technical, like changes to fit Reach's new physics systems. However, because of the game's new abilities, playing on the map should feel quite different. Jet packs and sprinting will make certain jumps easier, for instance.

Another map, "Zealot" is based heavily on Halo 2's "Midship," although not a one-to-one remake. While the lower portion of the map will feel familiar, a brand new upper level opens up a slew of new gameplay and strategic options.

Looks like some sites have realised IGN's mistake but are still willing to be as misleading in their headlines.

Traffic > Truth and all that.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I remember reading an article once about how FEAR's 'great AI' was actually largely great level design. They built areas where the length and orientation of corridors and rooms worked with the AI instructions to create unpredictable movement and flanking by design. Similar things are at work most of the times you fight the marines in HL1.

I think that regardless of where it ranks in terms of raw 'intelligence', Halo's AI is by far the most fun to fight against, for many reasons, right down to things as minor as the enemies for the most part firing highly visible, slow-moving projectiles instead of bullet-based weapons (threat is more visible and comprehensible to the player, dodging feels more player-controlled and thrilling, etc.). The combination of the AI with more open levels and the nuances of the sandbox make for a wonderfully variable experience, and the endless replayability of both campaign and firefight is testament to that.

 

[Major Williams]

While we're on AI talk -

It got me thinking about the Scarab - an AI achievement really for how large it is and how intimidating it really is. However, I still thought it was ultimately more 'dumb' than it really should be to take seriously as a deployed super weapon.

In Halo Wars, when you had actual control over the Scarab, the thing was smart, and you could position your units to act as a barrier to protect it and keep it out of range (as good commanders should do). I would really like to see this in Reach - giving credit to the Halo 2 unstoppable 'super weapon' that the Scarab really was.


Reach very well may have the 'Super Scarab' that was in Halo Wars. I for one would love to see this as it was a VERY scary REAL threat in the campaign and would add some dynamics to the Scarab as well and bring it full circle.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Anyway, congratulations to the Reach team for getting the game to gold. As someone who really loved the beta, I was still unnerved by how many things, big and small, seemed to be in need of adjusting or polishing before release, and I was sceptical they would pull it off. I was worried Reach was coming in very hot (shades of Halo 2), but they seem to have nailed it to schedule, with more content and features than any other previous title (indeed, with more content and features than any console FPS I can remember). Remains to be seen if it has the balance and polish the fans have come to expect, but it's still a pretty staggering achievement.

Also gotta respect the steady drip-feed of information, teases, reveals, etc. over the past four months or so. Really impressive community interaction and fan-oriented marketing, helped a lot by having urk, Luke, sketch, Shishka, and others posting here daily, putting up with us.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Awesome, congratulations Bungie, time to go celebrate!

No celebrating for Urk though, he gets to change another diaper. :lol

 

[op_ivy]

While we're on AI talk -

It got me thinking about the Scarab - an AI achievement really for how large it is and how intimidating it really is. However, I still thought it was ultimately more 'dumb' than it really should be to take seriously as a deployed super weapon.

In Halo Wars, when you had actual control over the Scarab, the thing was smart, and you could position your units to act as a barrier to protect it and keep it out of range (as good commanders should do). I would really like to see this in Reach - giving credit to the Halo 2 unstoppable 'super weapon' that the Scarab really was.


Reach very well may have the 'Super Scarab' that was in Halo Wars. I for one would love to see this as it was a VERY scary REAL threat in the campaign and would add some dynamics to the Scarab as well and bring it full circle.

halo 3's scarab is like halo ce's hunters. both are waaay too easy to take out when you know how. hopefully, like the hunters since, the scarabs have been fine-tuned to offer more of a threat worthy to their size and potential.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Alright buddy of mine that is an Assistant Manager at the Gamestop I will be heading to for the After Hours event tomorrow is telling me to go and to show up early, told him he better not be fucking with me. :lol We shall see.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Alright buddy of mine that is an Assistant Manager at the Gamestop I will be heading to for the After Hours event tomorrow is telling me to go and to show up early, told him he better not be fucking with me. :lol We shall see.

Do you have a recording device?

 

[TacticalFox88]

I think it's more the levels themselves than the AI itself. I sure as hell didn't play CE over and over because of the *awesome* AI. I played it because it was fuck awesome. While H2 and H3 improved the AI to some extent they lost the feeling of true epic CE had, which I have no doubt Reach will bring back.

 

[Thagomizer]

halo 3's scarab is like halo ce's hunters. both are waaay too easy to take out when you know how. hopefully, like the hunters since, the scarabs have been fine-tuned to offer more of a threat worthy to their size and potential.

Pretty much. You could ignore the Scarabs in Halo 3. Their weapons were so slow moving and obvious that you could just drive around without even paying attention to the Scarab and it would never touch you.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I think it's more the levels themselves than the AI itself. I sure as hell didn't play CE over and over because of the *awesome* AI. I played it because it was fuck awesome. While H2 and H3 improved the AI to some extent they lost the feeling of true epic CE had, which I have no doubt Reach will bring back.

So, wait, let me get this straight.

You played CE because the levels were "awesome"?

Wut?

 

[Sai-kun]

This is the poster they're hanging up at GameStop apparently:

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So is anyone else hoping for a part of the campaign to take place in urban areas where as we fight the covenant we also witness the civillians fleeing and fighting back. It would be really neat to see that level of destruction as it actually happens.

Also, are we expecting any more footage, screens or news this week?

 

[squidhands]

Alright buddy of mine that is an Assistant Manager at the Gamestop I will be heading to for the After Hours event tomorrow is telling me to go and to show up early, told him he better not be fucking with me. :lol We shall see.

There's a Gamestop near me that's doing that thing tomorrow. So is it spectator only, or do we get to play some of the game similar to the ODST truck? Cause if it's just some pro giving out tips, I'm not interested.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

So is anyone else hoping for a part of the campaign to take place in urban areas where as we fight the covenant we also witness the civillians fleeing and fighting back. It would be really neat to see that level of destruction as it actually happens.

Well, we know you fight in urban areas. We also know you have interaction with civilians, other than that I would assume at some point there is something you are describing.

 

[Shake Appeal]

So is anyone else hoping for a part of the campaign to take place in urban areas where as we fight the covenant we also witness the civillians fleeing and fighting back. It would be really neat to see that level of destruction as it actually happens.

Arcadia City was my favourite level in Halo Wars.

 

[Lunchbox]

that tom taywhore kid is bad. why is he on a poster featuring reach?

 

[Major Williams]

So is anyone else hoping for a part of the campaign to take place in urban areas where as we fight the covenant we also witness the civillians fleeing and fighting back. It would be really neat to see that level of destruction as it actually happens.

Also, are we expecting any more footage, screens or news this week?

Last time I got my hopes up for that was Earth's last stand in H3. We all know how much drama and civilian rise to arms there were in the city levels, and how real it felt that this really was Earth's last stand.

Spoiler

None.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So, wait, let me get this straight.

You played CE because the levels were "awesome"?

Wut?

And the game was fun. You played the game because of great AI? OK.

 

[vhfive]

There's a Gamestop near me that's doing that thing tomorrow. So is it spectator only, or do we get to play some of the game similar to the ODST truck? Cause if it's just some pro giving out tips, I'm not interested.

I believe it's spectator only :/