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Happy 15th Birthday to Max Payne
- Thread starter justjim89
- Start date
Twin Tails
Member
I had the original Max Payne demo way back in the day before I had the full version; must've played that demo through about fifty times. Max Payne 2 was the game that led me to build my first PC of my own.
Tried to play it again recently, unfortunately it doesn't get on well with Windows 10 apparently. Might dust off the original and see if that fares better.
Tried to play it again recently, unfortunately it doesn't get on well with Windows 10 apparently. Might dust off the original and see if that fares better.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Gunplay-wise it's far better than the Remedy games.
MMaRsu
Member
Shame there's no Max Payne 3.I'd love to see Remedy finish the series. Alas... They're stuck with Quantum Break right now.
Ya know the gameplay in mp3 is really good. Except for the parts where they take away control to shove a constant barrage of shitty cutscenes in your face.
MP2 is amazing, the first Max Payne was probably one of my first tps games ever, but it was amazing. That atmosphere, the storyboard way style of telling the story, genius.
MMaRsu
Member
I wouldnt say far better, its on par with MP2. Depends on what mods you have for mp2 as well.
The way the reloading works in MP2 is damn good though, shame they didnt replicate that in mp3. The way the bullettime would move slower and slower was dope.
SumptuousLemur
Banned
Max Payne 1 introduced me to the world of CPUs and GPUs and PC building.
Before that I had a decent PC but it was an off the rack HP my dad bought for the family. So it played everything decently up to the point of Max Payne's release.
Mad Payne led to me buying my first video card upon its release when I was in High School.
Still rocking that mousepad. Plus I remember RadioShack put it on the shelves way too early so I was playing it the Thursday before its release. One of my greatest gaming moments was during the tutorial, the moment when it asks you to do a shootdoge. It blew me away that I was controlling this and it just got better from there.
I loved each subsequent release and 3 was a fantastic sequel and IMO still the best third person controls and mechanics to date. The way the animation, FOV and controls are all so perfectly synergetic it is sublime to see proper animation go along with your controlled movements.
Before that I had a decent PC but it was an off the rack HP my dad bought for the family. So it played everything decently up to the point of Max Payne's release.
Mad Payne led to me buying my first video card upon its release when I was in High School.
Still rocking that mousepad. Plus I remember RadioShack put it on the shelves way too early so I was playing it the Thursday before its release. One of my greatest gaming moments was during the tutorial, the moment when it asks you to do a shootdoge. It blew me away that I was controlling this and it just got better from there.
I loved each subsequent release and 3 was a fantastic sequel and IMO still the best third person controls and mechanics to date. The way the animation, FOV and controls are all so perfectly synergetic it is sublime to see proper animation go along with your controlled movements.
Acquiescence
Member
Max Payne 2 is still the all-time greatest third-person shooter out there. So thanks for that Remedy.
Well John Woos films are usually about a couple of things - honour amongst thieves, people on opposite sides working together, betrayal and of course kick ass action scenes. A Better Tomorrow 1/2, The Killer, Hard Boiled etc. For example The Killer is about a hitman who ends up accidentally blinding an innocent girl and the guilt he feels around that, trying to help her by taking another job and coming into conflict with his bosses/working with a cop. Hard Boiled is about an undercover cop coping with being 'in deep' what that does to him and being at odds, initially, with the main character Inspector Tequila. One of Woos best films and probably his most dramatic, Bullet In The Head, deals with friends who get caught up in the Vietnam war and how circumstances ends with them facing each other. I highly recommend it, it's a great film. Woos hollywood films tend to be more simple, though Face/Off would deal with the same kind of dramatic conflicts. I must admit I do have a soft spot for Hard Target and Van Dammes mullet as well
Max Payne is obviously noir with John Woo inspirations but it's not really 'John Woo' like. And that's perfectly fine! I love the games for what they are.
MP1 & MP2 are in my top 10 games of all time. The atmosphere is just fucking ridiculous. MP3 couldn't replicate even an ounce of that which is a shame. MP1 is my overall favourite but goddamn is the shooting good in MP2. The best noir games I have ever seen. Shit I'm gonna have to start another playthrough of them.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
One of my favourite series. MP2 is easily one of the best TPS games.
I'm glad they didn't try, they would've fallen flat trying to emulate Lake's style.
I'm glad they didn't try, they would've fallen flat trying to emulate Lake's style.
I've played the first two games in one of the second worst ways imaginable: On 360. Was still incredibly fun. I really liked the atmosphere in the first game.
But they did? The monologues e.g. are still there, but they felt forced at best. If it weren't for them you could have mistaken it for 'Man on Fire - The Videogame', though, so they had at least some merit.
But they did? The monologues e.g. are still there, but they felt forced at best. If it weren't for them you could have mistaken it for 'Man on Fire - The Videogame', though, so they had at least some merit.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Not really. Internal monologues are a staple of Noir fiction and not exclusive to Lake. I'd say Rockstar's sounded closer to straight up Hammet/Chandler-esque cynicism (at least in the attempt) rather than Lake's more poetic purple prose.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Back in the day I thought Max looked like Christian Slater, it wasn't until years later that I learned whose face that really was.
Scully Scully Scoo
Member
remember playing the first as a kid and being scared to go up the stairs to confront the burglars. finally played through it couple years ago and it is an awesome game. mp2 has aged better though.
max payne will always be remembered for the great soundtrack, the narration/dialogue, the story and of course the gameplay. mp3 is also a great game, hoping for a remake of the original at the very least
https://youtu.be/AzsiE44Lz_w
max payne will always be remembered for the great soundtrack, the narration/dialogue, the story and of course the gameplay. mp3 is also a great game, hoping for a remake of the original at the very least
https://youtu.be/AzsiE44Lz_w
Two actually. Vanquish and Max Payne 3.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Nope. Best version of Bullet-Time too. The game begs you to take everyone out in a single application and rewards you for doing so.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Yes and yes. Give me a new MP3-like game pls Rockstar.
Hopefully RDR3 is the marriage of MP3 and GTA we've been longing for
One of the best games ever made. Happy birthday Max!!!
I love MP1 and 2, but even I would say that if MP3 had skippable cutscenes it'd be the best game in the series.
I love MP1 and 2, but even I would say that if MP3 had skippable cutscenes it'd be the best game in the series.
Phoenix944
Member
How is the PS2 port on PS4? I've played the game on PC back in the days but I'd kinda like to have it fr my PS4 now
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
TheMoon
Member
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Some of the greatest games of all time. First adult game I played. Left a hell of an impression on 11 year old me
Spring-Loaded
Member
Nah, being outright untouchable because of magic powers wouldn't counter the invasive cutscenes in that game. If a remaster/remake of that game could somehow remove or repurpose the cutscenes as purely gameplay segments (e.g. just have dialogue played while player is still in control), then it would be perfect.FTFY
I wouldn't mind altered bullet time distribution, but the game/series is best when the slow-motion is a precious commodity. What made these games fun was simultaneously feeling vulnerable and powerful, rather than always having a regenerating safety net.
One of my favoutite series in gaming. The second one especially still really holds up and is my favourite 3rd person shooters of all time. The brilliant atmosphere, humour, level design, bullet time 2.0..
The game just oozed personality and everything was polished and super fun.
Too bad Max Payne 3 was a godawful sequel lacking everything that made the first 2 special. Badly paced, tedious and joyless game with sluggish controls, useless additions to the gameplay such as last man standing that just doesn't work most of the time so much that it makes me wonder if that feature was ever playtested. Just goes to show you need a lot more than modern physics engine and hit detection to make a fun TPS.
The game just oozed personality and everything was polished and super fun.
Too bad Max Payne 3 was a godawful sequel lacking everything that made the first 2 special. Badly paced, tedious and joyless game with sluggish controls, useless additions to the gameplay such as last man standing that just doesn't work most of the time so much that it makes me wonder if that feature was ever playtested. Just goes to show you need a lot more than modern physics engine and hit detection to make a fun TPS.
There's a Nax Payne 3 and its the best goddamn third person shooter in existence.Shame there's no Max Payne 3.
Admiral Snackbar
Member
Max Payne 3 is by far a better shooter. Like, it's hard to argue otherwise, it's one of the best examples of the genre. But it jettisons the style of its history in the process.
This doesn't make it a bad game, it's just a bad Max Payne game. The first two are clunky as sin but there's real heart in there. I'm glad they were made and that we got them in the form we had them. Sam Lake will always have my attention.
This doesn't make it a bad game, it's just a bad Max Payne game. The first two are clunky as sin but there's real heart in there. I'm glad they were made and that we got them in the form we had them. Sam Lake will always have my attention.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Couldn't disagree more.
Max Payne as a series is primarily about style; about choreographing your own Heroic Bloodshed action sequences. At its best, the 'game' element comes from managing differently armed and differently positioned mooks and navigating their bullet-hell gunfire in a movie-themed environment, not managing a meter.
The most frustrating parts of MP1 and 3 (not game-breaking, just a chore) were where you were stuck without bullet-time in one of the larger set-piece areas where there were tons of mooks. You had to pop out and tag a few head shots just to fill it a little and get back into the fray. As I recall, the very slight regeneration you get in MP2 was only to a certain point, basically giving you another chance to start the BT chain murderathon. If you had that ability in MP1 and 3 it wouldn't have helped; the meter never filled whilst you used it - like head shots in MP2 - so you would be back to popping out (or shoot dodging) and shooting mooks for a smidgen of meter again, desperately trying to get your Bullet-Time back. If that's the 'gamey' punishment for mis-managing your BT meter, it's a terrible one. Even Remedy thought so, hence why they came up with glorious BT 2.0.
MP2's Bullet-Time is damn near perfect, as far as I'm concerned. BT 2.0 slowed down time and filled your meter the more you strung head shots together even in slow motion. It allowed you to strategically survey and readjust your slow motion combo during the gloriously over-the-top reloading sequence. Watching the physics-assisted chaos you're causing in the sepia ultra slow mo (or by hitting pause) was one of the most awesome parts. The game begged the player to use and stay in Bullet Time, and I don't blame it; without it and the shoot-dodging it's a fairly run of the mill TPS with great presentation.
Keeping you in BT as much as possible was MP2's single greatest achievement... outside Mona Sax <3
...all in my opinion, of course.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Funny that you bring up "Heroic Bloodshed" when a key component to the best films in that genre was a protagonist that is capable of being touchable, fragile, afraid. The shootdodge move that John Woo movies codified is embodiment of that: simultaneously defensive and offensive, diving out of the way of danger yet still attacking. Mark Gor in A Better Tomorrow is evidently on edge during the parking garage shootout when he goes to retrieve evidence against his old crime family, and that's after getting the shit kicked out of him. There's a moment where he's cowering behind cover while being shot at after tumbling into some bins, then he flies out around the corner on a cart, shooting the whole way. There's a rise and fall throughout these shootouts on a base level. Saying it's "primarily about style" is overlooking the true essence of that action.
MP2's bullet-time spam is more akin to Arnie in Commando, just standing out in the open, shooting dudes. At it's closest to John Woo, it's at best like A Better Tomorrow II, a goofy exaggeration of John Woo's better work, with little finesse. 2's BT causing payne to speed up relative to his enemies is goofy, along with that run animation and that HORRENDOUS reload pirouette.
You do get more BT in 3 by getting headshots. It's something you really have to fight for, to earn, and it doesn't speed up the player. It always come back to you being able to shoot the enemy before they get you. That tension is always there, that constant contrast between fragile, weak man and unstoppable killer is always evident.
One of my favorite franchises of all time, and MP1 sits comfortably in my top 5 when it comes to individual games. Can't praise it enough, it's absolutely fantastic. Graphics, gameplay, atmosphere, music, comic-style cutscenes (on top of in-game ones), I love it.
The writing is beautiful too. There are lots of memorable quotes:
"The American Dream come true. [...] But dreams have a nasty habit of going bad when you're not looking."
"I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings."
"Nothing is a cliché when it's happening to you."
"Collecting evidence had gotten old a few hundred bullets back. I was already so far past the point of no return I couldn't even remember what it looked like when I had passed it."
"There was no glory in this. I hadn't asked for this crap. Trouble had come to me, in big dark swarms. The good and the just, they were like gold dust in this city. I had no illusions. I was not one of them. I was no hero. Just me and the gun, and the crook. My options had decreased to a singular course."
"Valkyr had been meant to be a white-winged maiden that would lift you to a warrior's heaven. But it turned out to be a one-way demon ride to hell. The devil was in the drug. I knew. I had met him."
"You'd find that Lady Luck was really a hooker, and you were fresh out of cash."
Basically half of the IMDB quotes page is worth mentioning, it's that good. Love all the references to mythology, they suit the mood perfectly.
The writing is beautiful too. There are lots of memorable quotes:
"The American Dream come true. [...] But dreams have a nasty habit of going bad when you're not looking."
"I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings."
"Nothing is a cliché when it's happening to you."
"Collecting evidence had gotten old a few hundred bullets back. I was already so far past the point of no return I couldn't even remember what it looked like when I had passed it."
"There was no glory in this. I hadn't asked for this crap. Trouble had come to me, in big dark swarms. The good and the just, they were like gold dust in this city. I had no illusions. I was not one of them. I was no hero. Just me and the gun, and the crook. My options had decreased to a singular course."
"Valkyr had been meant to be a white-winged maiden that would lift you to a warrior's heaven. But it turned out to be a one-way demon ride to hell. The devil was in the drug. I knew. I had met him."
"You'd find that Lady Luck was really a hooker, and you were fresh out of cash."
Basically half of the IMDB quotes page is worth mentioning, it's that good. Love all the references to mythology, they suit the mood perfectly.
Does it play well with the Steam Controller? Now that you mention it, if I can get a friend to bring me one from the US in a few months I may replay the whole series with it.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Like Inspector 'Tequila-God-of-Guns-Never-Reloads' Yuen...? Max has way more in common with him than Mark or even Jeffery. He's the supercop trope given a 90s grimdark comic makeover.
I do think it is primarily about style. There is no hidden subtext to a Heroic Bloodshed combat sequence. It's about style, grace, blood and the narrative of movement; hence why it is often described as Bullet Ballet. That rhythm isn't lost in MP2, either. If you fail to clear the room in a single stroke, it is absolutely necessary for you to stop and hide to regenerate bullet-time (MP3 allows this when mooks shoot at you behind cover, granted). The difference, as I said, is you have to damage that rhythm in 1 (elongate it in 3) by scratching around for a sniff of BT before you get cracking again. MP2 (and to a lesser extent, 3) cuts that shit out.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. Max Payne 1 & 2 are over the top and goofy. They're a pastiche and love letter to all the genres they reference. It's not a gritty, grounded series and it's a mistake/misreading to think it is.
Also, the final shootout at the end of ABT II is a fuck ton of awesome fun. You no like my rice?!
I didn't say you didn't. I said you don't get extra BT for getting headshots whilst using BT.
"I think I died, I think i'm dead"
Such a great game. I remember playing it on PS2 many years ago. I played it again on PC just last year, and it's just as good as I remember.
Such a great game. I remember playing it on PS2 many years ago. I played it again on PC just last year, and it's just as good as I remember.
ref
Member
My thoughts exactly in regards to MP3, but I wouldn't say the first 2 Max Payne games are clunky by any means.
I just recently replayed Max Payne and it still feels and controls great.
Beat MP3 for the first time today, can't believe I couldn't get into it, for the past 2 years it was sitting in my steam library. I'm glad that they followed their vision between a Michael Mann movie and Elite Squad, the whole presentation is so unique for a game like this (given the excessive use of digital effects can be bothersome). Hope to see a sequel or a game in the same vein as Max Payne.
Bloody Screenshot
Bloody Screenshot
This is true. One of my favorites:
"No minotaur lurked in this labyrinth, but somewhere out there, on the clanging deck of his cargo freighter, the skipper of the Charon was waiting. Like the ferryman of the river Styx."
KurtSloane
Banned
One of the first PC games I played on the first PC I ever owned, a hand me down Tiny prebuild from my dad that had a P3 and a Riva TNT 2.
Glorious game, as is the sequel.
Glorious game, as is the sequel.
We're up to this many posts, and no one mentions Lords and Ladies?