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Happy birthday President Ronald Reagan

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ToxicAdam said:
Gerald Ford was a better president than Clinton.
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Ah, big fuckin' whoop. Wait till Slick Willie croaks at least so that he's canonized in the Hall Of Circle Jerk before we start mentioning his ass. Once he's dead, I'm sure all the conservatives in America will be sure to see how great he really was.
 
Boogie said:
No. But it's an important distinction when responding to speculawyer's post.
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Everybody fighting in Afghanistan then and now are under the control of asshole warlords. Warlords have no loyalty to anybody and switch sides whenever it is convenient for them. A lot of the warlords in the Karzai Afghani government that recieved CIA funding during the Cold War supported the Taliban when the Taliban were in control and wouldn't have a problem switching back.
 
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Enron said:
Uhm, the Mujahadeen. Do try to keep up.
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Everybody Afghani fighting against the Soviet occupation was a Mujahadeen. They were also Mujahadeen when they started fighting each other. The Northern Alliance styled themselves Mujahadeen as did the Taliban. The Northern Alliance did not like Arabs and Pakistani foreigners as they supported the Taliban. The Taliban did not like Coalition forces foreigners as they supported the Northern Alliance.

I'm not certain how you're using the word Mujahadeen but I think it's in a very different manner.
 
siamesedreamer said:
Excuses...that's what I'm reading.
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Really? You think he should have done massive tax hikes to cure the deficits instantly? Wow . . . what a massive lie. You can't even be consistent in your own thinking.

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I was wondering when the charts would be broken out. Thanks for that.

How about this:

Reagan was just as responsible for ending the Cold War as Clinton was for the economic boom that led to the budget surpluses.
 
speculawyer said:
I fail because I disprove his allegation that 'not all of them were islamic' by pointing out that the word literally means Muslim warrior? Yeah, that makes sense.
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"Islamic Assholes".

Come on now.
 
Azih said:
Everybody Afghani fighting against the Soviet occupation was a Mujahadeen. They were also Mujahadeen when they started fighting each other. The Northern Alliance styled themselves Mujahadeen as did the Taliban. The Northern Alliance did not like Arabs and Pakistani foreigners as they supported the Taliban. The Taliban did not like Coalition forces foreigners as they supported the Northern Alliance.

I'm not certain how you're using the word Mujahadeen but I think it's in a very different manner.
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That's how. And they recieved support from various foreign govt's to fight the soviets. Is this really that hard?

Also I should add that they were fighting against the afghani govt for years before the soviets poured across the border.
 
Enron said:
"Islamic Assholes".

Come on now.
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The Islamic thing was redundant and the asshole thing is extremely debatable. I think 'Mujahadeen' is being used as some sort of catch word for "The bad Afghanis" and that is just the wrong use for the term.
 
Azih said:
The Islamic thing was redundant and the asshole thing is extremely debatable. I think 'Mujahadeen' is being used as some sort of catch word for "The bad Afghanis" and that is just the wrong use for the term.
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Uh, what?

Im using Mujahadeen in the context of what the majority of this discussion has become, soviets occupying Afghanistan.

Not "bad Afghani"
 
Enron said:
That's how. And they recieved support from various foreign govt's to fight the soviets. Is this really that hard?
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There are two things wrong with this.

1) The 'Mujahadeen' was never a monolithic, centrally controlled group, it was a buncha warlords.

2) The foreigners the Mujahadeen don't like are the ones that are supporting their Afghani rivals, hence the Northern Alliance did not like the Arabs while the Taliban did not like the Westerners.

You have to break it down to the various factions in the place and see that alliances are completely fluid. A warlord supporting the western coalition today could easily be supporting the arab Al-Qaeda tomorrow.
 
Azih said:
Everybody fighting in Afghanistan then and now are under the control of asshole warlords. Warlords have no loyalty to anybody and switch sides whenever it is convenient for them. A lot of the warlords in the Karzai Afghani government that recieved CIA funding during the Cold War supported the Taliban when the Taliban were in control and wouldn't have a problem switching back.
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True.

But some mujahedin didn't support the Taliban, like Massoud.
 
Cheebs said:
Ford>Reagan
George HW Bush>Reagan
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I completely agree. I would even go further than that. Most Vice President's in the 20th century>> Reagan. Even most Secretary of States and even some White House janitors.

You are so on point with all of this, Cheebs.
 
Azih said:
There are two things wrong with this.

1) The 'Mujahadeen' was never a monolithic, centrally controlled group, it was a buncha warlords.

2) The foreigners the Mujahadeen don't like are the ones that are supporting their Afghani rivals, hence the Northern Alliance did not like the Arabs while the Taliban did not like the Westerners.

You have to break it down to the various factions in the place and see that alliances are completely fluid. A warlord supporting the western coalition today could easily be supporting the arab Al-Qaeda tomorrow.
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Enron said:
Most of them weren't the "HAY LETS BLOW UP THE WEST" variety, though. The Mujahadeen were merely just a bunch of groups fighting the Soviets and Afghani govt.
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ugh. Its like you aren't even reading the thread. That's what I just said!

bob_arctor is arguing that the Mujahadeen did not like foreign intervention, but they sure as hell didn't mind taking support from foreign entities. For Gods sake, this is NOT THAT DIFFICULT.
 
Enron said:
bob_arctor is arguing that the Mujahadeen did not like foreign intervention, but they sure as hell didn't mind taking support from foreign entities.
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And what I am attempting to show is that none of them have ever minded taking support from foreign entities as long as it helps them fight their enemies. The foreign intervention they don't like is one that helps their enemies fight them.

Foreign *occupation* on the other hand is a different kettle of fish entirely. Which is what bob was talking about.
 
OneFiftyOne said:
The term Reagan used was not 'ghetto queen', it was 'welfare queen'. There is a big difference (though not to you, I presume).
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Thank you for pointing out the correct phrase he used. I don't want people to be confused.
 
Azih said:
And what I am attempting to show is that none of them have ever minded taking support from foreign entities as long as it helps them fight their enemies. The foreign intervention they don't like is one that helps their enemies fight them.

Foreign *occupation* on the other hand is a different kettle of fish entirely. Which is what bob was talking about.
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He said foreigners "up in their shit". Having foreigners involved on your side is most certainly "up in your shit".
 
Enron said:
He said foreigners "up in their shit". Having foreigners involved on your side is most certainly "up in your shit".
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His initial comment was

"Fighting foreign occupiers then? Interesting."
 
biggkidd32 said:
I hope you're not serious.
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I didn't know he was dead. Gotta read more than the title next time!

my opinion doesn't change much, anyway, except for the fact that shits are more fragile than I thought
 
Tamanon said:
Fuck these young bucks. I appreciate you double-R!
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I remember in 1981 or 2 I was about 4 or 5 and I saw Reagan speak about Russia and the cold war. I had nightmares of dying by nukes for about 3 years. Only prez that gave me nightmares.
 
Tamanon said:
Fuck these young bucks. I appreciate you double-R!
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I'm probably the oldest person on this thread. I still remember laughing that that idiot during his 'peace shield' speech (AKA 'Star Wars', SDI). As an engineer I knew at the time, that ain't gonna work.

It is now over 20 years later . . . and it STILL doesn't work.
 
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