ST2K
Member
Good military history tidbits. If you enjoyed Khans, I'd get it.
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Hardcore History |OT| New episode: Painfotainment
- Thread starter ebullientprism
- Start date
Good military history tidbits. If you enjoyed Khans, I'd get it.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
Downloading now. Can't fucking wait.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Bout godamn time.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks for posting!
Hari Seldon
Member
FOUR HOURS LONG. My God he needs to figure out how to release more often but shorter haha.
Wait, you mean even after this episode he's not done?! Haha insane. Awesome, but insane.
I love this podcast series and only started with part 2 of the Blueprint for Armageddon series. Just such nuance and attention to detail.
...ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuck.
whytemyke said:
Not even close, but he covers a significantly longer period of time than in the previous two podcasts. Depends on what subjects he wants to touch. There's at least another two podcasts left, almost certainly more because the US's entry and Imperial Russia's exit can be discussed for at least few hours alone.
There could a hell of a lot more episodes depending on how much he wants to go into the fallout of WW1 too. Certainly what happened to Russia following these events could be it's own series.
A Russian civil war episode or two would be great. I'm continually surprised by how many people think "The Bolsheviks killed the Czar and then there was USSR" is an accurate summation of the events.
Well, the most recent one is Part 3 of a series. Might do you better to start from part 1 of that series.
MrTeachwell
Member
oh wow, thanks for letting me know. I checked a couple days ago and it wasn't there so I suspected it might be another month or so.
The Khan series was so good I want more ancient history like that, so I'm considering picking up one of the classics (once I'm done with the most recent blueprint episode). Any recommendations? I'm eyeing off episode 12 steppe stories (ice mummies!)
The Khan series was so good I want more ancient history like that, so I'm considering picking up one of the classics (once I'm done with the most recent blueprint episode). Any recommendations? I'm eyeing off episode 12 steppe stories (ice mummies!)
ebullientprism
Member
Oh man this episode is good. Like really REALLY good. Classic blood and guts HH.
The first episode was interesting in a historical perspective sort of way. The second was a little eh since all the maneuvers werent the most exciting thing in the world. But I love how "on the ground" this one is.
As someone not from the west with only a passing knowledge of the subject, its actually horrifying how brutal the first WW was. What those people went through is just unreal.
The first episode was interesting in a historical perspective sort of way. The second was a little eh since all the maneuvers werent the most exciting thing in the world. But I love how "on the ground" this one is.
As someone not from the west with only a passing knowledge of the subject, its actually horrifying how brutal the first WW was. What those people went through is just unreal.
Excited to hear this, since I wasn't a fan of episode 2. I will now download it ASAP.
Can someone explain to me why this guy always insists he's not a historian? I reads like either: a) he's a prick who thinks he understands history better than some "establishment", which I don't think is the case; or b) he doesn't believe he's qualified in which case what are these shows even?
He's explained before. While he has a degree in history (I believe), being an actual historian involves historiography and most likely having a PhD. He's more an extreme history buff than anything.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Plus, a proper historian would put in all these caveats and debates about controversies and how different events went down. Dan basically picks the most exciting narrative and runs with it.
You end up with something that's perhaps less accurate, but a lot more engaging. Basically you don't want to cite Dan in a paper.
You end up with something that's perhaps less accurate, but a lot more engaging. Basically you don't want to cite Dan in a paper.
Human_Shield
Member
He usually doesn't say when the last episode is until he gets to the one prior to it. Depending on how detailed he plans to get, I'd figure there's at least two episodes left, so it's probably at least another 6 months until the whole thing is concluded.
Looking at the recording time for the earlier episodes, he's doubled it since April of last year. Multi-part episodes used to clock in around 1 hour 30 minutes every 2 months. Since Blueprint for Armageddon started, they're (on average) 3 hours 30 minutes every 3 months. In the old format, BfA would already be up to episode 6, but we wouldn't have gotten it until August 2014. So we're actually getting more episode than we did previously.
I am pretty sure there is a strong correlation between those two things.
It's a disclaimer. Treat it as a documentary, not as an history lesson.
Btw, no one person is qualified to talk in detail about the range of topic Dan talks about. Actual historians will focus on a particular subject or era.
call_kotaku
Member
He's a fan of history, not someone who actively does the sort of research and detailed study of very specific subjects like an actual historian, nor is he subject to the same level of scrutiny.
Think of it as analogous to Journalists vs Enthusiast Press.
PeskyToaster
Member
It's like Christmas. This war needs more "appreciation". It's so overlooked in favor of WWII but WWI is so much more monumental and world breaking I think. Not in lives/numbers but deeper aspects
Human_Shield
Member
The reason it gets overshadowed by World War II is because WW2 is easier to simplify, if war can be described in such a way. Good and evil are easier to define in that conflict. In the First World War, there are really only aggressors. There's too much backstory to cover dealing with the rise of Germany as a great power in the late 19th century, the Franco-Prussian war and old racial rivalries, the political climate of the late 19th/early 20th century, and the series of complex defense treaties that caused everyone to fall into conflict. Never mind trying to describe the horrors of the realities of war. People don't want to take the time to listen and learn. It is to far simpler to say, "Allies = Good, Nazis = Evil".
To twist, mangle, and misquote the movie 'Good Night and Good Luck', "People want to be entertained. They don't want a history lesson."
I think it's also easier to understand WW2's causes. It's pretty simplistic to say that there was "less" backstory you have to understand for WW2, but you can condense a lot of it into "Germany got shafted and was pissed off about it". With WW1 you have to understand how the hell one guy getting killed in SE Europe got a third of the world into a war; there was so much "peace" before it that there's a lot less that happened for purely militaristic reasons that read easily off the page.
Started listening to this latest batch, it's pretty good thus far.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
That's a pretty huge simplification of the causes of World War II, though.
I think it's more popular because it's more recent, and because it was filled with a lot of "exciting" things like stunning rapid victories, the emergence of world changing new technologies like the atom bomb and so on. Just anecdotal of course, but I was totally engrossed in The World at War documentary, but The Great War also from the BBC made me feel physically exhausted watching it and listening about this or that horrendous massacre that corresponds with a tiny change in the war situation.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Thanks, I did. The Wrath of the Khans Extra episode is well worth 2 bucks, if anyone's on the fence about it. It's more a series of tidbits rather than the narrative style in the main series, but they're interesting and insightful tidbits.
Exactly. I'm listening to Will Durant's Our Oriental Heritage these days on my smartphone and in the opening portions he (well, through narrator at any rate) says that the book is too broad to be considered the end-all-be-all on the subject and that because, like Carlin, he made the book by amassing the research of many others the information contained is subject to change and different interpretations than his own.
And that's coming from an actual historian.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
I'm almost an hour into Blueprints III and man it's so good. I thought Ghosts of the Ostfront was really rough, but this one is hitting me harder for some reason. The suffering of these soldiers is just overwhelming. The part where he talks about the slaughter of all those 16-18 year old German students was heartbreaking. To be taught by your schoolteachers(!!!) that war is this glorious endeavor just to be hastily sent to the front lines where most of your peers get wiped out... man what a fucked up reality check that must have been.
Megalosaro
Banned
Something similar happened to tolkien. He was fresh out of college when he was sent to france. Every one of his high school and college friends went over there as well. They fought in the battle of the sommnes and he was the only survivor.
speculawyer
Member
This episode is GREAT. I loved the first one. The second one bogged down. This one is back into greatness.
His favorite stuff happened at the beginning of the war.
I've not listened to it. You recommend it, eh? What kind of history does Duncan tell. I like Carlin, but I'd like to listen to something that's a little less "great men" and more about socio-economics.
Because technically, he doesn't have a background in history. He doesn't do primary research, and his concern is less about finding fact and more about telling a compelling story, It's a little bit of a cop-out though. It's like when Jon Stewart says he's "just a comedian". That of course is true, but I'm sure lots of people take both of them very seriously. don't take me as being overly critical though - I like both very much.
Yeah thanks for the responses, everyone. The word "cop-out" pretty well captures how I feel. Like, if he really sincerely believed what he was producing was irresponsible or insufficient or something, he just shouldn't put it out. Which is not what I want! I basically think what he makes is a Good Though Not Perfect Thing. I dunno. It's a weird thing for him to fixate on.
Well, he's more like a reporter of history. A historian is someone who searches through the physical records, makes and tests hypotheses, and presents data. Carlin, simply reads a bunch of book (put out by historians) and turns it all into one big story. So he's not a historian. I just wish he would be a bit more obvious about what he is - either an entertainer or reporter - as opposed to what he's not.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
He used to say in his older podcasts that he was a fan of history, not a historian, on a regular basis. He doesn't need to be any more obvious. I think those familiar with the show are are pretty aware of his background and the aims of the show.
His stated goal is to give you a sense of the human experience in the historical stories he tells. If you've ever had to sit though a college history class you probably know that real historians can be... A little dry.
By giving the listener a sense of what it was like for the people at ground zero he fills in a lot of holes left by actual history teachers. I've had numerous history classes where while I might have learned the who's what's when's and where's but I felt sorely lacking in the whys. His podcast does a very good job of painting a human picture that helps you make sense of the carnage and gives you a greater appreciation of the people and events.
His description of the Eastern front in WWII was more enlightening than anything I ever learned about WWII in school. What's more, it makes me appreciate the "legitimate" story as told by historians all the more. It inspires me to care enough about the events that I want to research them myself, and with regards to Ostrander, gives me a greater appreciation for the Russian people and what they had to sacrifice.
His stated goal is to give you a sense of the human experience in the historical stories he tells. If you've ever had to sit though a college history class you probably know that real historians can be... A little dry.
By giving the listener a sense of what it was like for the people at ground zero he fills in a lot of holes left by actual history teachers. I've had numerous history classes where while I might have learned the who's what's when's and where's but I felt sorely lacking in the whys. His podcast does a very good job of painting a human picture that helps you make sense of the carnage and gives you a greater appreciation of the people and events.
His description of the Eastern front in WWII was more enlightening than anything I ever learned about WWII in school. What's more, it makes me appreciate the "legitimate" story as told by historians all the more. It inspires me to care enough about the events that I want to research them myself, and with regards to Ostrander, gives me a greater appreciation for the Russian people and what they had to sacrifice.
call_kotaku
Member
The one thing about this latest podcast was mentioning that fighting happened on one continuous battlefield for years at a time, and people were fighting amongst just mountains of bodies. It's not something that I've ever seen really show in depictions of that era, and it's really crazy to imagine. I used to think the "walking on piles of skulls" scenes from the first 2 Terminator movies was a bit too outlandish, but that's what's being described here except even worse.
ebullientprism
Member
The smell alone would drive you insane. Piles of rotting bodies, human waste, unwashed people and chemical gases.
Jesus. Getting shot almost seems like a luxury. :/
Jesus. Getting shot almost seems like a luxury. :/
WWI seems a lot more fucked up after listening to that last podcast. I remember thinking this video was hard to believe as real, but under those horrible conditions it's crazy to think the brain really just stops working correctly. Sad that a lot of these "Shell Shock" (or PTSD) victims were shot as cowards before they understood what it was.
This is what I was going to say. Consider that people who lived through WW2, who did not live through WW1, are still alive and have been influencing different forms of media for decades.
And yeah, the latest episode is great so far.
Am I the only one who considers the 10 sec rewind on BeyondPod incredibly useful? I use it constantly when I get distracted or stop the podcast and then have to resume later on. Makes it very easy to get back into it.
I agree. Pocket casts has the same feature and I find it super useful, especially if I have to stop listening halfway through a section. I usually rewind 2 minutes or so to give me a quick refresher before continuing.
BoA part 4 can't come soon enough. It's going to be a long 3 months
