PataHikari
Banned
besada said:
I'm just saying that his post isn't much hyperbole.
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Harrison: Non-gamers See Controllers as live Guns
- Thread starter ZeroTolerance
- Start date
I'm just saying that his post isn't much hyperbole.
NintendosBooger
Member
Dr_Cogent said:
And you're society's big alpha male because you're adept at handling advanced controls to generate visual feedback from a useless video game/toy.
I'm all for easier control schemes and less buttons on a controller, but please not the way the Wii games implement it. So far only a handful Wii games have maintained the complex nature of the videogame with an easy control scheme. The 95% other games on the Wii have all dumbed down the gameplay and are as exciting like Fiat Panda, yet still sell like hotcakes.
Very do not want.
Very do not want.
God, some of the reactions in this thread have me between laughing and weeping for humanity...
more respect to Harrison though, i guess how i perceived him as an ass was largely due to the fact that he was just a loyal PR guy, and now that Sony can't do jack shit, he's speaking his mind. i find that most amusing...
more respect to Harrison though, i guess how i perceived him as an ass was largely due to the fact that he was just a loyal PR guy, and now that Sony can't do jack shit, he's speaking his mind. i find that most amusing...
Phil Harrison sounds like he wanted the PS3 to be a more powerful Wii with some of his comments. First, he wanted more casual games, and now, he is heavily praising the Nintendo controller. Seriously, I don't want PS3 to become a casual gamers machine. I would switch to the 360 if that was the case.
I really liked Home and LBP looks very interesting, but for the most part, I didn't particularly care for the software strategy of the PS3, if it was indeed concocted by Harrison. Hey, let's deviate from a strategy that saw us DOMINATE two console cycles in a row! Instead of trying to get GTA exclusivity, let's fund the development of Lair and Genji! I can give him props if he was the pioneer for Home, but I wasn't liking what Sony was doing in regards to handling their software... Exclusivity was lost on so many third party titles, and granted that we've had a few decent first party titles, the first party titles were what were supposed to really distinguish the PS3, and those titles keep getting delayed over and over with no new information being released on them. I REALLY don't care for making the PS3 more simplified for people who don't play games. How about you stick to the market that saw the PS brand rise to prominence in the first place?
I really liked Home and LBP looks very interesting, but for the most part, I didn't particularly care for the software strategy of the PS3, if it was indeed concocted by Harrison. Hey, let's deviate from a strategy that saw us DOMINATE two console cycles in a row! Instead of trying to get GTA exclusivity, let's fund the development of Lair and Genji! I can give him props if he was the pioneer for Home, but I wasn't liking what Sony was doing in regards to handling their software... Exclusivity was lost on so many third party titles, and granted that we've had a few decent first party titles, the first party titles were what were supposed to really distinguish the PS3, and those titles keep getting delayed over and over with no new information being released on them. I REALLY don't care for making the PS3 more simplified for people who don't play games. How about you stick to the market that saw the PS brand rise to prominence in the first place?
SolidSnakex
Member
kevm3 said:
That's what I was saying in the thread about him leaving. It's rather obvious that he wanted to turn Sony into a casual company this generation and that's why Sony Japan told him no. And i'm happy they did.
test_account
XP-39C²
Haunted One said:Enjoy your gaming ghetto.
Whats a gaming ghetto?
NintendosBooger
Member
SolidSnakex said:
You act as if they told him "no" out of sheer "gaming principle." Had they foreseen Nintendo's success this gen with the DS and the Wii prior to the analytical and technical building of the PSP/PS3, I'm sure they would have seriously considered the option.
I have to admit i chuckle at how Lair has become some pariah when around this time last year, the idea of new ips like Heavenly Sword, Lair Warhawk and Uncharted were seen as genius in an era of multiplataform third parties.
Regardless the loss of exclusives aint Phils fault. Im pretty sure that rests on the guys above him, Ken, Kaz and Stringer. Pretty sure Assasssins creed was going to be a PS3 exclusive but the guys above Phil declined. Or something like that. Aint Phils fault.
Regardless the loss of exclusives aint Phils fault. Im pretty sure that rests on the guys above him, Ken, Kaz and Stringer. Pretty sure Assasssins creed was going to be a PS3 exclusive but the guys above Phil declined. Or something like that. Aint Phils fault.
SolidSnakex
Member
NintendosBooger said:
Well i'm glad they did see what he saw.
Don't bullshit Harisson on this. Seriously Sony could go casual without doing it drastically like Nintendo. How about catering to more people (the good way) instead of CHANGING your whole fucking and fuck your old fans (Nintendo's way).
In my opinion, Nintendo got casual in a bad way and there's a profitable way that wasn't bad that they could have followed.
EDIT: is there angry mods changing posts now? I never typed the bolded up there.
In my opinion, Nintendo got casual in a bad way and there's a profitable way that wasn't bad that they could have followed.
EDIT: is there angry mods changing posts now? I never typed the bolded up there.
NintendosBooger
Member
SolidSnakex said:
So am I. I like variety
Choke on the Magic
Banned
Crushed said:
Go to the FAQ and look at the banned memes.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Based on what Phil has said since leaving SCEA, I'm surprised he didn't leave much sooner.
Golden Darkness
Member
Why is it that people want to restrict the marketing and creation of games to the hardcore?
Wanting games to be made just for them and no one else?
Do they want games to be seen as a brain-dead hobby of 16 to 30 year old males? Do they want all the other demographics to leave games alone?
What's next? Demands of no more E/E10 games to be produced? Only T/M rated games with themee so mature that it would be criminal for a child to posess? Gee, why don't we require a goverment license for gaming? (Can't play games until you take a test on how to play, and not until your 17).
Wanting games to be made just for them and no one else?
Do they want games to be seen as a brain-dead hobby of 16 to 30 year old males? Do they want all the other demographics to leave games alone?
What's next? Demands of no more E/E10 games to be produced? Only T/M rated games with themee so mature that it would be criminal for a child to posess? Gee, why don't we require a goverment license for gaming? (Can't play games until you take a test on how to play, and not until your 17).
NintendosBooger
Member
Ranger X said:
Yeah, their old "fans" were really helping Nintendo maintain their relevancy in the video game market while steadily flocking over to greener pastures every new generation. :rollseyes:
Golden Darkness said:
It's related to what i was saying earlier. Gamers might be quite horrified at the Nintendo's way (pretty radical) and then since they still are normal people (not much imagination and vision) they don't really see another way of "going casual" they automatically think they will be forgotten.
How about some business doing MORE games and make some for casuals without stopping their hardcore products? lol
Grecco said:
A lot of Sony fans were always complaining about the loss of exclusives, and now they are doing it even more after we learned what we got in exchange. The only reason people even considered Lair as something noteworthy was because of the graphics. When gamers palyed it, they found out that the gameplay sucks. Heavenly Sword was good. Genji was mediocre. Didn't particularly care for Motorstorm, although a lot enjoyed it. Sony' strategy has been essentially to hire less prominent developers, give them a lot of money, and hope they make a hit. I'm finding out that a lot of these games have excellent presentations (cinemas, music, etc.), but the gameplay isn't up to what a big studio like Capcom or Konami can push out. What is the rationale behind wrapping up War Devil exclusivity instead of trying to push for GTA4, RE5 or SC4? I'm going to be pissed if Sony lets Tekken go, which wouldn't be surprising, since they want to 'focus on first party.' It's sad that Namco, an ardent supporter of Sony for two console generations in a row, now appears more keen on supporting the 360. Awful managing of the 3rd party situation.
What's really pathetic about the Sony software situation is that we're getting treated to some 3rd party titles months after it ends up on 360 and it STILL is inferior! Lost Planet anyone? Overall, we're being treated to several competent to bland efforts from Sony's first party studios, with the exception of Naughty Dog and Insomniac, and I really don't believe that it was worth essentially shunning third parties, and in return losing exclusivity on several 3rd party titles and receiving them late or an inferior rendition of them. Whoever they put in charge of the software side of things really needs to get Sony back on track, and get them back on the strategy that saw the dominance of the first two consoles.
NintendosBooger said:
I don't really get what you mean and someone changed my post up there. My opinion is very simple. Some people are acting like they will be forgotten because of casual gamers and i don't its true. Nintendo is changed alot since some years and might frighten some people off but i think there are other ways to attract casual gamers AND keep hardcore gamers around. Maybe Harry would have known how to pull this off.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
test_account said:
I googled it and that's what I got.
Haunted
Member
You do realise that Nintendo is now in first place, with Sony and Microsoft hopelessly behind, right? If anything, it proves that Harrison was right and that they should have listened to him, from a business standpoint.kevm3 said:
Looking at some of the comments in here, I think a a Gaffo cameo could be in order. Crushed?
Version 3.0
Member
As usual, the truth is somewhere in between the extremes being presented here. Some games lend themselves to simpler, more intuitive controls, and some don't. Anyone who says "the industry" should be moving in any one direction is wrong. "The industry" should be moving in all directions simultaneously. There is no one game for everyone, just like there is no one TV show, movie, band, etc for everyone. We all need to stop seeing "videogames" as one big collective, and realize they have as many forms as any other entertainment medium.
SolidSnakex
Member
Golden Darkness said:
I don't think anyone is saying that. Just look at the PS2, Sony made many casual games like Buzz, Singstar, Eyetoy games ect and no one was bothered by that. The problem comes in when it seems to be the focus of what's being done on a system. For hardcore gamers, that's not going to go over well with them.
Felix Lighter
Member
Golden Darkness said:
It's not about restricting gaming to the hardcore. This specific issues is more about preventing the opposite. Removing buttons from the controllers is a movement towards disregarding the hardcore and catering exclusively to the casual market. If a game benefits from a simpler control scheme, it makes sense for that game to utilize fewer buttons but what benefit is gained by removing those buttons entirely from the controller for all games? The controller becomes less "scary" for the inexperienced players but games like Warhawk for example would suffer greatly.
Extra buttons don't hurt games with simple controls; the lack of buttons can definitely hurt games with more complex controls.
Haunted One said:
Just because Nintendo is ahead doesn't mean that Sony would've been ahead with the same strategy. The PS3's pricepoint would have kept it from competing with the Wii. Casual gamers aren't overly concerned with graphics, so they would've chosen the 250 dollar Wii much sooner over a 500 dollar PS3. I also guarantee you that if Sony had exclusivity on titles such as DMC4, GTA, Assassin's Creed, RE5, etc., etc. while selling at a fairly reasonable pricepoint ($400 and below) things would be looking MUCH different. None of this requires shifting to casual gaming.
Deadly Monk
Banned
Most people I know hate the Wii controller and want to use the classic controller everytime.
I love Phil but you can't cater to everyone. Not possible. What about the keyboard and mouse? Most adults and kids can use it fine.
I love Phil but you can't cater to everyone. Not possible. What about the keyboard and mouse? Most adults and kids can use it fine.
NintendosBooger
Member
kevm3 said:
So, by that, I take it that you predict that once the PS3 reaches the aforementioned price range and boasts a comparative list of quality exclusive games (which will happen, with FF13, MGS4, GT5, LBP, etc. on the horizon), the market will begin to shift in Sony's favor?
Given the sells of shooters in the industry, perhaps Harrison should have thought about packing in a gun with all of the PS3 games last year.
Why is it that it's only the success of Wii Sports that matters? What about Halo 3, Call of duty 4, Mass Effect, Bio Shock, Madden, and so on ans so forth. You know, games that use all of the buttons on the controller? Games that millions of people seem to understand quite well. Even Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank on his former company's console. Will GTA 4 use only one button on the controller? HA!
Peter? Peter is just crazy. He becomes unbearable when he has a game due out.
Why is it that it's only the success of Wii Sports that matters? What about Halo 3, Call of duty 4, Mass Effect, Bio Shock, Madden, and so on ans so forth. You know, games that use all of the buttons on the controller? Games that millions of people seem to understand quite well. Even Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank on his former company's console. Will GTA 4 use only one button on the controller? HA!
Peter? Peter is just crazy. He becomes unbearable when he has a game due out.
plagiarize
Banned
people also need to realise that most of us here learnt how to use the current controllers progressively. you won't have new hardcore gamers if the controllers keep on getting more and more complicated. we went NES -> SNES -> PSX -> N64 -> DUAL SHOCK -> DUAL SHOCK 2 -> DREAMCAST/XBOX -> SIXAXIS... learning one new thing every few years.Leondexter said:
if it would help you guys see the Wii as an entry level console for someone who hasn't gamed before, then do that.
as for that argument about Metroid Prime 3 having complicated controls, they're still a lot more intuitive than dual analogue.
get two people who have never held a joypad before. give one prime 3 and one cod 4 and see which of them picks up the controls faster.
KittenMaster
Member
Simple, intuitive controls...
Hardcore gameplay...
This is what I look for.
Hardcore gameplay...
This is what I look for.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
I need the backstory behind this one.shifty100 said:
plagiarize
Banned
would you have campaigned against power steering and automatic gears becoming widespread?TTP said:
Skiptastic
Member
Borys said:
Too late. Already happening.
What's the problem with having a controller that can be simple (only use the A button and the joypad) and something that can be complex (crazy FPS controls gone bonkers) on the same controller? Do we need to go to the lowest common denominator to be successful???
Oh. That's right. The PS2 is the most successful console in the history of video gaming, and it has tons of buttons. Turns out the answer is no. We can move along.
NintendosBooger said:
The Ps3 would have sold A LOT better than it has been doing. The complaints about the PS3 have been price and lack of compelling games.
Nintendo is selling so well because it focused on tapping into a new market. It would be futile for Sony to halfway enter into this market because they would get dominated by Nintendo. In business, it's good to have a focus. Sony doesn't want the PS3 to have casual games, but be priced out of casual range... and if they have primarily casual games at their current price, they will alienate the more traditional gamer who would've bought the console at the higher price. Sony has been doing so well exploiting the traditional market, and it's idiotic that they've deviated from a formula that's been working so well for them. Nintendo found their nice with the Wii, but it doesn't mean Sony would find that same level of success trying to halfway emulate Nintendo.
I guarantee the PS3 would be selling A LOT better than it currently is if it started off with a 400 and a 300 dollar rendition (Blu-Ray would be omitted), and had games such as Soul Caliber, Resident Evil, GTA, etc. locked up. Would they beat Nintendo? Who knows, but I know they would be a lot more competitive from a sales standpoint.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Borys said:SUCK ON THIS HARRISON AND MOLYNEFAUX
True gamers don't fear buttons!
I was seriously about to post the same thing; controller anxiety is purely intimidation-based.
Why anyone, on either side. is talking about the downfall of gaming in an era where we're seeing industry sales records broken constantly mystifies me. Starting with Harrison's/Nintendo's idea that the gaming market is exclusionary, which makes no sense considering it's been growing steadily, to the fear of the removal of the kind of complex, high-graphical games being put out on the other systems, even though those kinds of games are selling better than ever.
The chicken little-ism of this entire argument is the silliest bit about it. No one needs to save videogames, because the market is and has been expanding. It's not in any real danger.
The chicken little-ism of this entire argument is the silliest bit about it. No one needs to save videogames, because the market is and has been expanding. It's not in any real danger.
crowphoenix
Banned
This thread is a silly place, so I feel I should clarify my above post. I do dislike waggle, but only when it is used as an extra button. If by shaking the remote I get the same effect as pressing a button, I'd rather have a button. However, if the waggle is unique, such as in Wii Sports, then I am ok with it, and in fact, I prefer it.
On the subject of complexity vs. simplicity, I'll always take a simple control schemes, sometimes that means more buttons (Old Jrpgs that had one button for action/menu, rather than a button for action and a button for menu), or sometimes it means less. Sometimes, a game needs more complexity for what it's tryinging to accomplish.
Sports games are often quite complex in button schemes, but alot of people who some might consider casual gamers play them. It's more about the want and the ease of understanding.
On the subject of complexity vs. simplicity, I'll always take a simple control schemes, sometimes that means more buttons (Old Jrpgs that had one button for action/menu, rather than a button for action and a button for menu), or sometimes it means less. Sometimes, a game needs more complexity for what it's tryinging to accomplish.
Sports games are often quite complex in button schemes, but alot of people who some might consider casual gamers play them. It's more about the want and the ease of understanding.
Count Dookkake
Member
Phiil Harriison
NintendosBooger
Member
kevm3 said:
Honestly? I don't think it would have made that much of a difference. Nintendo isn't succeeding as a result of Mario Galaxy, SSBB, or Zelda. These familiar franchises are merely supplementing the new ones that have caught the undivided attention of both old and new gamers. Relying too strongly on legacy IPs is a practice that didn't help Nintendo in the previous two generations as far as dominating the market. Having the lower priced console didn't help them, either. IMO, what Sony failed to do up to this point is generate an exclusive hit or feature -- that spark-- that could then be reinforced gradually by a traditional library of games consisting of the likes of SC, RE, GTA, etc.