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[monchi-kun]

here's a situation where the controller just helps with your emotional involvement with the game.

 

[hokahey]

I think the higher ups in the industry see how Nintendo has yet again found a way to bring gaming back out in to the family living room for everyone to enjoy, and know that it's imperative to continue this trend if gaming is expected to grow and ultimately survive. For too many people gaming is STILL a niche entertainment source with a major stigma attached.

"Hardcore" gamers need to stop feeling so threatened that their exclusive hobby and 20 button controllers will go the way of quick gaming thrills without any deep interactivity.

"Waggle" is growing the industry, creating quick pick up and play experiences, and helping to alleviate the stigma of gaming as the refuge of nerds. However, I challenge anyone to say games like Zelda TP, Mario Galaxy, Guitar Hero III, Metroid Prime III are easily mastered by the casualz.

You don't need bald space marines and 20 button controllers for an immersive experience that can be enjoyed by all skill levels.

"Analogue sticks? No way am I not using my d-pad man! They better not all try using these things!"

"Rumble? Who needs rumble? Pssshah."

Change is scary huh?

 

[nestea]

I handed my girlfriend the controller and she pushed it away complaining it was too complex for her. I shook my head out of disappointment and I knew she could sense my discontent. I ended up marrying her, but could never really look at her the same way again.

 

[Spoit]

You are right in the part that joypads are for general uses.
The problem here is that, while PC Games require a lot of buttons for their complexity, this same complexity makes them non-attractive for non-gamers or new gamers, and the hardcore gamer market is shrinking, so companies are looking for new niches to fill that void.

The fact that hardcore gamers tend to despise casual gaming does not change the fact that they are the minority now.

But the olol the PC market is dead except for casual games like the sims and wow:lol . You can't have it it both ways

 

[Melfice7]

What a load of crap why does it seem the industry is so concerned on trying to get more and more casual gamers.. hardcore is where it is

 

[Onemic]

But the olol the PC market is dead except for casual games like the sims and wow:lol . You can't have it it both ways

Nice man. Nice.

 

[vanguardian1]

I don't believe that is the case. There are many games that simply can't be done on the wii, simply because it's button configuration is far too simple. Granted probably all FPS games(non tactical) can be put on the wii, same goes for sports games, but there are a lot that simply aren't possible without hindering the experience somewhat(i.e. MGS, GRAW, etc.) Unless of course the dev makes one specifically for the wii(i.e. the RE series)

If you were to say that they cannot be done on Wii the exact same way they are done on a traditional gamepad, then I would agree with you. However, the point is that you can't just shoehorn the controls/gameplay from a gamepad onto the wiimote, it won't work well. But to say that they can't be done on wii is a BIG mistake. I feel many of the game types you mentioned could heavily benefit from the Wiimote/Nunchuck setup.

 

[Onemic]

If you were to say that they cannot be done on Wii the exact same way they are done on a traditional gamepad, then I would agree with you. However, the point is that you can't just shoehorn the controls/gameplay from a gamepad onto the wiimote, it won't work well. But to say that they can't be done on wii is a BIG mistake. I feel many of the game types you mentioned could heavily benefit from the Wiimote/Nunchuck setup.

As I said before, it can be done if it's made different like capcom with the RE series(sans RE4)

And the game types I mentioned in my last post were examples of genres that would translate very well with wii controls.

 

[hokahey]

What a load of crap why does it seem the industry is so concerned on trying to get more and more casual gamers.. hardcore is where it is

To try and grow the industry, which is absolutely necessary.

However, I'd like to add that the elitist attitude against casual gamers is a bit irritating. First of all, what's casual? I have recently been playing though Chrono Trigger again in between sessions of Bust a Move. I find both incredibly enjoyable. What kind of gamer am I? What kind of game was Pac Man? Super Mario Bros., Galaga, etc?

Just because a game can be enjoyed by people that don't chain themselves to their video game systems does not mean it's not as credible a gaming experience as one that requires infinite amounts of playtime.

Nintendo is playing a major part in ensuring that gaming continues to become a mass entertainment product, a necessity for the industry to continue to thrive, and everyone whines about it.

 

[J-Rzez]

What a load of crap why does it seem the industry is so concerned on trying to get more and more casual gamers.. hardcore is where it is

Well, it kinda works out for everyone. The devs make more money, they make more games. Like these companies keep putting out shovelware and people buy it up. They in turn, take a bit of those profits and use that to fund expensive AAA PS3/360/PC titles. It's when companies (barring 1st of course) start to ignore the PS3/360/PC stuff and just focus on shovelware is when there's concern for alarm.

 

[King_Slender]

Waggle is the new disco.

:lol :lol

Needs more Wiimote Demolition Night

 

[StevieP]

Well, it kinda works out for everyone. The devs make more money, they make more games. Like these companies keep putting out shovelware and people buy it up. They in turn, take a bit of those profits and use that to fund expensive AAA PS3/360/PC titles. It's when companies (barring 1st of course) start to ignore the PS3/360/PC stuff and just focus on shovelware is when there's concern for alarm.

You just have a wonderful view of the world, don't you? :lol

 

[J-Rzez]

You just have a wonderful view of the world, don't you? :lol

Well, I have a mixed view on "the" world. That's why I prefer to stay in "my" little world more oft than not. There's endless fat-free cheese cake that actually tastes better than the fatty stuff, and the finest imported beers, which happen to have zero-carbs, full-flavor, and 14g of protein per serving.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I think the higher ups in the industry see how Nintendo has yet again found a way to bring gaming back out in to the family living room for everyone to enjoy, and know that it's imperative to continue this trend if gaming is expected to grow and ultimately survive.

You realize the Gaming Industry made more money per year than the Movie Industry before the Wii even came out, right? It was making billions per year and growing. There's no reason to believe the industry wouldn't be able to survive if the Wii had never existed.

 

[Proven]

You realize the Gaming Industry made more money per year than the Movie Industry before the Wii even came out, right? It was making billions per year and growing. There's no reason to believe the industry wouldn't be able to survive if the Wii had never existed.

Two things:

A. Wasn't it said before that despite the higher sales, there were less people generation over generation since the SNES/Genesis or PSX/N64 era? Or was it less people year over year?

B. Weren't the billions made gross income? The movie industry makes a ton of profit through DVD sales...

 

[StevieP]

That's also a flawed view. Games cost less and are charged more for. Not to mention, interest in gaming was in a bit of a decline (especially in Japan) before the DS, and still to this day is relegated as nerd culture. What's wrong with trying to change that?

 

[hokahey]

You realize the Gaming Industry made more money per year than the Movie Industry before the Wii even came out, right? It was making billions per year and growing. There's no reason to believe the industry wouldn't be able to survive if the Wii had never existed.

I've read a number of articles and quotes from top gaming execs (even Nintendo competitors) that growth of the industry was much needed and that the gaming bubble was about to possibly burst again unless there was growth.

Look, "waggle" has barely existed for a year now. Nintendo and a few third parties have shown what was possible with it. In a few more years the shovelware will not be as prominent and more developers will put the remote to better use...just like the damn DS.

I say we give it some time before declaring that waggle will kill us all.

 

[C4Lukins]

SUCK ON THIS HARRISON AND MOLYNEFAUX

True gamers don't fear buttons!

That is my keyboard, I am famous. I am using it right now to type these magical words.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Two things:

A. Wasn't it said before that despite the higher sales, there were less people generation over generation since the SNES/Genesis or PSX/N64 era? Or was it less people year over year?

B. Weren't the billions made gross income? The movie industry makes a ton of profit through DVD sales...

When you consider that the PS2 is the best selling system ever, I doubt the accuracy of the first claim. As to the second, you're right, it is gross versus net. However, the point is, the industry would have survived just fine without the Wii. It's a huge industry that was growing before. The Wii wasn't needed to save anything.

I say we give it some time before declaring that waggle will kill us all.

I think the Wii is great for the industry - and just look how the NDS has reached older gamers - I just don't think it was necessary for the survival of the industry.

 

[hokahey]

When you consider that the PS2 is the best selling system ever, I doubt the accuracy of the first claim. As to the second, you're right, it is gross versus net. However, the point is, the industry would have survived just fine without the Wii. It's a huge industry that was growing before. The Wii wasn't needed to save anything.



I think the Wii is great for the industry - and just look how the NDS has reached older gamers - I just don't think it was necessary for the survival of the industry.

I think the need for growth was very real, and Wii is providing that. That's all I'm saying.

 

[titiklabingapat]

What a load of crap why does it seem the industry is so concerned on trying to get more and more casual gamers.. hardcore is where it is

You don't want to follow the comics industry.

 

[benita316]

If people can learn how to operate a cellphone then there's no reason why they can't learn how to use a controller.

Last time I checked it didn't require the simultaneous deft manipulation of 2 analog sticks coupled with complex, timing sensitive, multi-finger, button sequences to send a text message.

Nice try.

 

[Onemic]

Last time I checked it didn't require the simultaneous deft manipulation of 2 analog sticks coupled with complex, timing sensitive, multi-finger, button sequences to send a text message.

Nice try.

Well if little children can play a DS there's no reason they can't use a controller.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

This whole argument is silly. If a game wants to use only one button on a controller, this is entirely possible. Just have the game use ONE BUTTON.

Paring down the number of buttons so that the sheepish newbs are less afraid is ridiculous.

 

[Innotech]

When you consider that the PS2 is the best selling system ever, I doubt the accuracy of the first claim. As to the second, you're right, it is gross versus net. However, the point is, the industry would have survived just fine without the Wii. It's a huge industry that was growing before. The Wii wasn't needed to save anything.



I think the Wii is great for the industry - and just look how the NDS has reached older gamers - I just don't think it was necessary for the survival of the industry.

it was needed to save the smaller companies from extinction.
The ones more ambitious than just making a PSN/XBLA title who wanted to make retail games, but didnt have the funding for HD but still have innovative ideas. The Wii caters to them quite well. It has its place definitely.

 

[vanguardian1]

Hmm... in Nintendo's statement that covered 2007, didn't they say that they were responsible for 60% of the industry's 48% growth? I don't recall how exactly they worded it, but those numbers I do remember.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I think the need for growth was very real, and Wii is providing that. That's all I'm saying.

Since the industry was already growing, why do you think the need for growth was very real? Obviously, growth is always good. But the industry wasn't in need of more growth.

 

[Innotech]

Since the industry was already growing, why do you think the need for growth was very real? Obviously, growth is always good. But the industry wasn't in need of more growth.

it opened up potentially new markets. Not every single person who had a console last gen is going to buy another but entire groups of new gamers will join in this gen. Thats market expansion.

 

[MisterHero]

some dev companies are spending more than they should and that is a definite problem.

consoles are reaching $400+ and wasting money on making/marketing various SKUs because the hardware isn't balanced.

most 'next-gen' games are $60, rather than last-gen's $50 standard.

nintendo is showing companies that decent budgets, cheaper development, right talent, and less marketing hype is still affordable, and probably even very profitable.

Halo 3 sold 8 million copies but MS spent a fuckton on marketing (for what it's worth, I liked the BELIEVE website)

 

[Gamecocks625]

I think the need for growth was very real, and Wii is providing that. That's all I'm saying.

Exactly. The Wii is doing a wonderful job at growing (and in someways, reshaping certain aspects of) the industry. I don't understand why people are defensive about something so blantantly obvious.

 

[civilstrife]

I'm just pretty shocked at most Gaffers' apparant distaste for controller innovation. For me, half the fun of a new console is playing around with it's neat new controller. Nintendo has always come through in this department, which is part of the reason they still have me as a customer.

When did hardcore gamers forget about the joy of an exciting new controller?

I think Nintendo has found a great happy medium in the Wiimote/nunchuk combo.
More games and controllers for the masses, I say.
I love playing games, but even better is playing games with the people I love.

 

[fernoca]

Classic GAF..
The most weird thing is not the usual people saying the usual things, but rather the terms used..like "our hobby".."our games".."our industry"..."our controllers"...

Me..me..me..

Geeze.. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Gigglepoo]

it opened up potentially new markets. Not every single person who had a console last gen is going to buy another but entire groups of new gamers will join in this gen. Thats market expansion.

I agree completely. The Wii, Pogo.com, Yahoo Games, the Nintendo DS, cell phones, the PSP, XBLA and PSN have opened up the door to more people. The industry has been able to grow consistently for the last two decades because new types of games and new ways to get those games are constantly being invented.