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[Zaptruder]

Gates said he hoped his arrest would help reduce racial profiling by law enforcement agencies.


Only thing is, he was not racially profiled, he just cried the loudest but I guess it will make other officers really think before they actually do stop a minority just because they are a minority. And it looks like Obama escapes another close one. How the hell does he do it?

And that's all that needs to be done.

Because while most officers aren't racist as far as their know, the information they have been exposed to, the culture that they're brought up in (just as a general american), means that they're at least subconciously primed for stereotyping.

Preferably, a little more sensitivty training is needed; Officers shouldn't let their guards down ever, but they can certainly be a bit less abrasive unless they're obviously dealing with a criminal.

 

[Zaptruder]

I wonder what happens when white people are rude to cops. I bet they get all sorts of preferential treatment.

Did you just link to some sort of fake viral video as proof?

And are you also equating going upto a random cop and telling them to fuck off, and flipping them the bird as equal to the situation that Gates and Crowley were in?

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Did you just link to some sort of fake viral video as proof?

No?

And are you also equating going upto a random cop and telling them to fuck off, and flipping them the bird as equal to the situation that Gates and Crowley were in?

I think the response of the cop in the video makes it pretty clear that I don't see a direct equivalence between the two situations. There are parallels there, however. And If you want to see more videos of white people getting beaten down by cops you can have them--the point is that the burden is on you to prove that what happens to a person happens because of their skin color.

Too often it's the default assumption that bad things happen to black people because they're black. This assumption often persists without evidence and, in the case of say, Sean Bell, in spite of evidence.

 

[Byakuya769]

I wonder what happens when white people are rude to cops. I bet they get all sorts of preferential treatment.

You're more like Gates than you think

... my man.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

You're more like Gates than you think

... my man.

Can you explain that or is this a hit and run troll?

 

[nyong]

turd because he's brown right? i get it...

Gates?

I was talking with my parents about this today. Apparently my mom's white neighbor ran into a similar situation. He was locked out of his house and decided to try all the windows. The neighbors called the cops. When his wife came home from work they had him up against the police car, in front of his own home. Unlike Gates he's pretty good-humored about it apparently.

 

[Byakuya769]

Can you explain that or is this a hit and run troll?

You're using an example of white person being abused by an officer to make some point about police race relations. Furthermore, you have tended to ignore the majority of people on this issue who argue only that Gates should not have been arrested, and don't speak on the race issues. Instead, you opt to debate anyone who comes into the thread decrying racial profiling, push their comment to the extreme, and then use flimsy examples to paint every argument opposite of yours as ridiculous. Like Gates, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder and something to prove, and you will make your argument crying and screaming, deaf to reality and blind to rational thought


... my man.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

You're using an example of white person being abused by an officer to make some point about police race relations.

I shouldn't be surprised by such density from a joke character, but did you actually read what the hell I was saying? I was pointing out that no one of any race can expect to get away with verbally trashing a cop.

Furthermore, you have tended to ignore the majority of people on this issue who argue only that Gates should not have been arrested

Maybe because I agree with them?

Instead, you opt to debate anyone who comes into the thread decrying racial profiling

Maybe because I disagree with them? There's a thought!

push their comment to the extreme, and then use flimsy examples to paint every argument opposite of yours as ridiculous.

Let's see some examples. You're good at making wild and hysterical personal attacks. Show me the substance.

 

[Byakuya769]

why even respond to someone who calls people he disagrees with "joke characters" over and over, as a weak attempt to elevate his own arguments.

... my man.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

why even respond to someone who calls people he disagrees with "joke characters" over and over, as a weak attempt to elevate his own arguments.

... my man.

Well, there's the extent of your substance I suppose.

 

[Byakuya769]

Well, there's the extent of your substance I suppose.

yep, you win

.. my man.

 

[nyong]

Dude, please change your signature. I rarely get annoyed at small things but seeing "...my man" over and over again is driving me nuts.

 

[The Faceless Master]

The joke character is usually the one pretending to not know how to capitalize.

you are the first person on GAF to ever use that as a point in an argument against me.

i'm talking previous versions of GAF too, not just the current incarnation.

obviously , nobody else seems to be bothered.

however, many people complain about people who use all caps all the time.

Of what?

You say it doesn't matter he claimed to have a weapon.

wait, what?

You say it doesn't matter he responded to confrontation by ramming their car. You claim it doesn't matter that the people who shot him were of the same race--they must be racists anyway. You ignore my point that the police were justifiably afraid for their lives.

black cops can't be racist against black people?

You're a clown. If a black man got hit by lightning, you'd probably call the clouds racist.

jcs: confirmed.

 

[Zaptruder]

I think the response of the cop in the video makes it pretty clear that I don't see a direct equivalence between the two situations. There are parallels there, however. And If you want to see more videos of white people getting beaten down by cops you can have them--the point is that the burden is on you to prove that what happens to a person happens because of their skin color.

Too often it's the default assumption that bad things happen to black people because they're black. This assumption often persists without evidence and, in the case of say, Sean Bell, in spite of evidence.

The anecdotal evidences are stupid. And the people that resort to them are kinda dumb. Just look at the figures and the stats. Those are the relevant facts.

And the reality is that minority groups are still disproportionately arrested relative to their level of wrongdoing/criminal activity.

In any individual situation, there are many difficult to percieve factors, and the racial bias affect is just one of those factors.

Ultimately, it means that people should be aware of the implicit bias that most people have(irrespective of their skin color) and do more to guard against it.

As it relates to this context; it means that you're doing that idea a disservice by providing shoddy anecdotal videos about how black people aren't the only people been beat up.

No shit; I'm sure you could find thousands of videos of white people getting the tar beat out of them by the authorities. It does nothing to diminish the real affect of racial bias, racial profiling, et al.

But to be fair to you; if you're saying something else, I didn't read it. I'm basically only responding to the video you posted (which was stupid) and the few posts around it that I skimmed through.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I wonder what happens when white people are rude to cops. I bet they get all sorts of preferential treatment.

should have used this instead.

 

[Xenon]

This my (kind of) view, too. Gates was being a prick, but the bottom line is that there was no grounds for him to be arrested. Given all the information we know. No matter how inflammatory his comments were. Gates had a bruised ego, so he baited them, and unprofessionally; they took that bait. Cops, even if they are human take up a profession of choice and should be well aware that they are going to run into a fair share of assholes. If they can't deal with that, then choose a different profession. Crowley should have set aside his ego being the one on the clock.

He did deal with it. He arrested Gates. You act like the police have to be the only responsible party here and that is BULLSHIT. Gates started something and the officer responded. It was not the only thing he could have done or even the best way to handle the situation. Still, he made a call on the scene and everything worked out in the end. Hopefully both men learned something.

People standing on some moral high ground that "Gates was not breaking the law thus his arrest was illegal and wrong" are missing the fact that cops are empowered to arrest people. It is for the courts to decide if it was justified. Considering the political implications the charges were dropped so Gates was free to go.

From the word go Gate's had no respect for the authority given to the officer by our society. If he wants someone to blame for this loss of time and aggravation he needs to look into a mirror.


If you have such a high standard maybe you should join the force and show them how its done. When a person gets into it with a person doing their job they run the risk of retaliation in what ever manner the persons position provides them. You mess with your waiter, enjoy the spit in your food. You piss off a bouncer at a club, say goodnight to the honeys. You get in a cops face, don’t be shocked to find yourself cuffed. That’s life. If you can't handle it, don't be an asshole.

 

[Byakuya769]

People in places of authority are not supposed to be the responsible party? Is that really what you're trying to say

... my man?

 

[Xenon]

People in places of authority are not supposed to be the responsible party? Is that really what you're trying to say

... my man?

No just people shouldn't think that they are the ONLY ones who have to be resposible.


No, good luck finding him.

 

[Byakuya769]

No just people shouldn't think that they are the ONLY ones who have to be resposible.


No, good luck finding him.

"You act like the police have to be the responsible party here and that is BULLSHIT."

... my man.

 

[Xenon]

"You act like the police have to be the responsible party here and that is BULLSHIT."

... my man.

Ahh forgot the only... to the editor!


I said no.

 

[Byakuya769]

Ahh forgot the only... to the editor!


I said no.

So it would be okay for the President to use legal means to punish citizens that speak ill of him

... my man?

 

[Gaborn]

So it would be okay for the President to use legal means to punish citizens that speak ill of him

... my man?

It's already illegal to threaten the President's life, and they already arrest people that disrupt his speeches. For, incidentally, "disturbing the peace"

 

[Byakuya769]

It's already illegal to threaten the President's life, and they already arrest people that disrupt his speeches. For, incidentally, "disturbing the peace"

Gaborn, you're too smart for me to have to point out the differences for you

... my man.

 

[Gaborn]

Gaborn, you're too smart for me to have to point out the differences for you

... my man.

There isn't THAT much difference. Disturbing the peace is a somewhat subjective term, but it's not like it's totally unheard of for someone to be arrested for that under relatively similar circumstances to what the professor was apparently involved in.

 

[mAcOdIn]

There isn't THAT much difference. Disturbing the peace is a somewhat subjective term, but it's not like it's totally unheard of for someone to be arrested for that under relatively similar circumstances to what the professor was apparently involved in.

Lol.

I'd actually argue that if Obama accidentally went into the wrong home and got into a heated argument with the owner that the secret service would pull the President out, not the home owner.

 

[Xenon]

So it would be okay for the President to use legal means to punish citizens that speak ill of him

... my man?

Why dont you go, get in his face and find out what happens?

 

[Gaborn]

Lol.

I'd actually argue that if Obama accidentally went into the wrong home and got into a heated argument with the owner that the secret service would pull the President out, not the home owner.

because Obama, despite his MASSIVE powers doesn't have the ability to enforce local ordinances you're completely right in that scenario.

 

[Byakuya769]

There isn't THAT much difference. Disturbing the peace is a somewhat subjective term, but it's not like it's totally unheard of for someone to be arrested for that under relatively similar circumstances to what the professor was apparently involved in.

And I'd argue many of those instances constitute an abuse of power. Gates was not physically threatening anyone, nor was he impeding the officer from leaving.. basically he was being loud in his own front yard in the middle of the day. That's a large caveat

... my man.

 

[mAcOdIn]

because Obama, despite his MASSIVE powers doesn't have the ability to enforce local ordinances you're completely right in that scenario.

Fine, say he's with the usual police escort then.

 

[Gaborn]

Fine, say he's with the usual police escort then.

Then it depends on the reason he's there. Officer Crowley was investigating a reported potential crime according to standard police procedures. If Obama is just visiting random houses for some reason (Which I don't see happening) then he'd have no reason to go into a home, and no ability to do so probable cause or not (even though his police escort, with probable cause, could)

 

[empty vessel]

Oh no Cops are not required to stand by and be shit upon by people who are upset.

Yes, they are, since cops are, by choice, in the retail business. It's not like this isn't in the job description (First Amendment to the United States Constitution). I don't understand what about this you don't get. Police officers are the government. Citizens are who police officers serve, i.e., their customers. If a citizen wants to express his First Amendment rights to call a cop racist, that is that citizen's fundamental right.

It's really simple. Here's the hierarchy for you authoritarians who don't seem to get it.

(1) Citizen of the democratic U.S.
(2) Cop

Notice how cops are beneath citizens, please. Now, continue discussion.

 

[Gaborn]

Yes, they are, since they are, by choice, in retail. It's not like this isn't in the job description (First Amendment to the United States Constitution). I don't understand what about this you don't get. Police officers are the government. Citizens are who police officers serve, i.e., their customers. If a citizen wants to express his First Amendment rights to call a cop racist, that is that citizen's fundamental right.

It's really simple. Here's the hierarchy for you authoritarians who don't seem to get it.

(1) Citizen of the democratic U.S.
(2) Cop

Notice how cops are beneath citizens, please. Now, continue discussion.

Not to the point that it disrupts other people and creates a public disturbance though.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Not to the point that it disrupts other people and creates a public disturbance though.

A public disturbance that would only exists because the cop is there in the first place.
That's the fucking point.

There's a difference between two parties causing a disturbance and the police, acting as a third party break it up, and a disturbance where one party is a citizen and the other party is the police.

 

[empty vessel]

Gates?

I was talking with my parents about this today. Apparently my mom's white neighbor ran into a similar situation. He was locked out of his house and decided to try all the windows. The neighbors called the cops. When his wife came home from work they had him up against the police car, in front of his own home. Unlike Gates he's pretty good-humored about it apparently.

Haha, so funny. Did this white neighbor get taken to jail? I await the stunning conclusion to this story with bated breath.

 

[laserbeam]

Haha, so funny. Did this white neighbor get taken to jail? I await the stunning conclusion to this story with bated breath.

Apparently you cant read. The man didnt act like a shithead and fight with the cops. Gates on the other hand acted like a shithead and continues to act like a shithead even while Obama is saying hey lets chill and get passed this

 

[mAcOdIn]

Apparently you cant read. The man didnt act like a shithead and fight with the cops. Gates on the other hand acted like a shithead and continues to act like a shithead even while Obama is saying hey lets chill and get passed this

Verbal disagreement to a situation that's happening is like the only decent way in existence(I guess he could sign his displeasure) for a person to express their opposition to what's happening around them at any given time.

He did not physically fight with the police officer, really had no reason to retreat from the situation being that it was his home, so logically if he was irritated with the way things were going the only course of action he had was verbal speech.

They're both guilty of being shitheads, I find it amusing that only Gates should be held responsible.

Frankly, I don't see why anyone should give a damn about what Obama says regarding this matter, it's between two people, neither of which are him and both of whom know more about what really happened than he, so who cares what Obama thinks?

 

[Xenon]

Haha, so funny. Did this white neighbor get taken to jail? I await the stunning conclusion to this story with bated breath.

Gates?

I was talking with my parents about this today. Apparently my mom's white neighbor ran into a similar situation. He was locked out of his house and decided to try all the windows. The neighbors called the cops. When his wife came home from work they had him up against the police car, in front of his own home. Unlike Gates he's pretty good-humored about it apparently.

No reason to.

 

[laserbeam]

Verbal disagreement to a situation that's happening is like the only decent way in existence(I guess he could sign his displeasure) for a person to express their opposition to what's happening around them at any given time.

He did not physically fight with the police officer, really had no reason to retreat from the situation being that it was his home, so logically if he was irritated with the way things were going the only course of action he had was verbal speech.

They're both guilty of being shitheads, I find it amusing that only Gates should be held responsible.

Frankly, I don't see why anyone should give a damn about what Obama says regarding this matter, it's between two people, neither of which are him and both of whom know more about what really happened than he, so who cares what Obama thinks?

Well Obama invited both of them to get togeather with him and get passed this.

Gates says sure Ill come so Crowley can learn a lesson. Now Gates is even attacking his neighbor who called the cops accusing her of being racist because she called the cops.

I mean this guy is nothing but an attention seeking douchebag who is loving the limelight

 

[ha1f]

Haha, so funny. Did this white neighbor get taken to jail? I await the stunning conclusion to this story with bated breath.

This situation has happened to me before actually. I managed to get into my house through a window, and a neighbor called the cops. 2 uniforms showed up at my house with guns drawn. I was polite, showed my I.D., and the cops left after doing a complete sweep of the house (they asked for permission to do this). And yet, I did not get hauled off to jail.


And I'm black.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Well Obama invited both of them to get togeather with him and get passed this.

Gates says sure Ill come so Crowley can learn a lesson. Now Gates is even attacking his neighbor who called the cops accusing her of being racist because she called the cops.

I mean this guy is nothing but an attention seeking douchebag who is loving the limelight

Did he really attack his neighbor, I thought he thanked her?

Anyways, I'm only arguing about what I feel should be legal or illegal not the right thing to do by one's character. Obviously I feel that Gates should have humored the possibility long enough for Crowley to finish his job and wait to jump to the racist card until he was being arrested, beaten, whatever a racist cop would have done. I do think that Gates was initially the lesser man.

Legally, I don't think being a lesser man in your verbal dealings with others to be something that warrants legislation or police action while fiscally, money should not be spent punishing people who are lesser men of character that do not break laws.

In my opinion it's entirely possible then for Gates to be a douchebag and not break the law. I also seriously question the scope we should give a law such as domestic disturbances if we're to allow the only entity capable of arresting people for them the power to find merely disagreeing with them or being rude to them as a valid interpretation towards it's use. I think that's insane. The only way that police should be given that much free leverage would be if there was yet another entity one could call to break up disturbances between police and citizens.

 

[empty vessel]

This situation has happened to me before actually. I managed to get into my house through a window, and a neighbor called the cops. 2 uniforms showed up at my house with guns drawn. I was polite, showed my I.D., and the cops left after doing a complete sweep of the house (they asked for permission to do this). And yet, I did not get hauled off to jail.


And I'm black.

And if you weren't polite, as was your right? What then?

(Moreover, it's not like those of us taking the side of Gates assume this kind of thing must happen every time a cop interacts with a black man. Are you taking the position that this must happen every time a cop interacts with a black man, because that's certainly not what I believe.)

 

[Xenon]

Verbal disagreement to a situation that's happening is like the only decent way in existence(I guess he could sign his displeasure) for a person to express their opposition to what's happening around them at any given time.

He did not physically fight with the police officer, really had no reason to retreat from the situation being that it was his home, so logically if he was irritated with the way things were going the only course of action he had was verbal speech.

They're both guilty of being shitheads, I find it amusing that only Gates should be held responsible.

Frankly, I don't see why anyone should give a damn about what Obama says regarding this matter, it's between two people, neither of which are him and both of whom know more about what really happened than he, so who cares what Obama thinks?

Who is saying this only Gates fault? I don't think he should have been arrested but I can understand why he was. It was his bias and preconceptions that caused him to act out in the manner he did which led to the incident. But people in this thread keep trying to make this into a case of some racial problem with the officer. The only person who had that problem was Gates.


Also I agree about people getting upset about what Obama said. His response was based off of inaccurate information.

And if you weren't polite, as was your right? What then?

I think gates went a bit further that than just not being polite.

 

[CrushDance]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so excuse me if this has been discussed to death already.

Obama's comments on this was totally out of line and he's lost some support from me personally and from watching CNN and reading around the web. Many people think he got mixed into something that he shouldn't have, and secondly he used extremely poor wording in calling it "stupid".

I've heard of Gates before when I watched the primaries on CNN and the occasional news clips. So I was frankly surprised by the way he lashed out, might have been just a series of unfortunate events :S

 

[mAcOdIn]

Who is saying this only Gates fault? I don't think he should have been arrested but I can understand why he was. It was his bias and preconceptions that caused him to act out in the manner he did which led to the incident. But people in this thread keep trying to make this into a case of some racial problem with the office. The only person who had that problem was Gates.


Also I agree getting upset about what Obama said. His response was based off of inaccurate information.

I can see why Crowley wanted to arrest him but I can not see why he was arrested, I guess that's the difference between you and I. I know Crowley had the power to do so and I can sympathize with him wishing to use the power to do so but I can't actually condone the action.

Regarding Obama's remarks, I actually agreed with them, I think he speaks like I do and it made people come to the wrong conclusion unfortunately. He was listing his thoughts, not unlike a numbered list where they're all individual thoughts but people just lumped acting stupidly and racial discrimination still exists into one thought when I didn't feel that was what he was trying to do at all. I don't know why it became such a big deal though because like I said, who cares what he thinks on the issue?

 

[laserbeam]

Gates was on TV again today talking about the plight of the blackman in america and how they are targeted and brought up his neighbor calling the police etc as an example.

I mean damn one day he is greatful she was concerned and now she was calling the cops because she saw a blackman apparently. Neverrmind the fact what she saw was a door forcibly being broken into

 

[empty vessel]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so excuse me if this has been discussed to death already.

Obama's comments on this was totally out of line and he's lost some support from me personally and from watching CNN and reading around the web. Many people think he got mixed into something that he shouldn't have, and secondly he used extremely poor wording in calling it "stupid".

The police officer's actions were more than stupid. They were unconstitutional and a violation of Gates's civil rights. A federal crime, in fact. Calling them stupid was an act of restraint.

 

[empty vessel]

Gates was on TV again today talking about the plight of the blackman in america and how they are targeted and brought up his neighbor calling the police etc as an example.

I mean damn one day he is greatful she was concerned and now she was calling the cops because she saw a blackman apparently. Neverrmind the fact what she saw was a door forcibly being broken into

By her own neighbor, who she apparently couldn't even recognize as such.

 

[timetokill]

This situation has happened to me before actually. I managed to get into my house through a window, and a neighbor called the cops. 2 uniforms showed up at my house with guns drawn. I was polite, showed my I.D., and the cops left after doing a complete sweep of the house (they asked for permission to do this). And yet, I did not get hauled off to jail.


And I'm black.

But ... But THIS is what HAPPENS to black men in America!!!!!

 

[laserbeam]

By her own neighbor, who she apparently couldn't even recognize as such.

There is no doubt your one of two things. A joke character or Gates himself. Though I do admit you are spouting the same lines his supposedly professional Journalist daughter has tried so maybe that is who you are.

 

[empty vessel]

There is no doubt your one of two things. A joke character or Gates himself.

You're a genius of some kind, right? Post something of substance to discuss.