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[petran79]

Personally, for me, the 90s was the peak. I had a hard time following anything in the 00s. Of course I still watch anime but, my heart will always be in the 90s.

200x had also great shows. Basically first half was Madhouse/Gainax/BONES/Gonzo decade. Problem is that this decade failed to reach the standards of the previous decade. It gets worse each year.When Madoka is still seen as the series of the decade,something is seriously wrong. Only one movie was an exception.Princess Kaguya reached an artistic level that I havent seen before. Should belong to the top 20 animated movies of all time. This proves even further the chasm in approach between the old guard and the new one.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

200x had also great shows. Basically first half was Madhouse/Gainax/BONES/Gonzo decade. Problem is that this decade failed to reach the standards of the previous decade. It gets worse each year.When Madoka is still seen as the series of the decade,something is seriously wrong. Only one movie was an exception.Princess Kaguya reached an artistic level that I havent seen before. Should belong to the top 20 animated movies of all time. This proves even further the chasm in approach between the old guard and the new one.

Who says that? Not I, at least.

 

[KillLaCam]

Gundam then:

Gundam now:

Where did we go wrong?

CGI killed Mecha Anime for me

 

[Haly]

Yeah I hate the third dimension as well.

2D4lyfe

 

[caliph95]

Yeah I hate the third dimension as well.

2D4lyfe

 

[Permanently A]

Everything in this picture is the problem with anime today.

Hunter × Hunter (Japanese: ハンター×ハンター Hepburn: Hantā Hant&#257 is a Japanese manga series written and illustrated by Yoshihiro Togashi. It has been serialized in Weekly Shōnen Jump magazine and journal since March 3, 1998, although the manga has frequently gone on extended hiatuses since 2006.

Do explain

 

[Ascheroth]

CGI killed Mecha Anime for me

Are you saying this is CG?

🤔🤔🤔

 

[Spacejaws]

Flat earthers have it right, 3D sucks.

Take me back Jesus!

 

[KillLaCam]

Are you saying this is CG?

🤔🤔🤔

It's handrawn? If so that's amazing. Guess I mean digital art ruined Mecha Anime For me? I think that's a better term

 

[Wild Card]

Yeah I hate the third dimension as well.

2D4lyfe

Maybe the 4th dimension will bring it back.

A new age of Anime!

 

[veloxStrix]

200x had also great shows. Basically first half was Madhouse/Gainax/BONES/Gonzo decade. Problem is that this decade failed to reach the standards of the previous decade. It gets worse each year.When Madoka is still seen as the series of the decade,something is seriously wrong. Only one movie was an exception.Princess Kaguya reached an artistic level that I havent seen before. Should belong to the top 20 animated movies of all time. This proves even further the chasm in approach between the old guard and the new one.

Nichijou, Steins;gate, and Usagi Drop all came out in that same year. I hear about each of those way more than Madoka. Not that Madoka was even bad. This was 2011. Past that there are plenty of shows that push the boundary both artistically (Ping Pong, One Punch Man, Drifters, Monogatori) and dramatically (Shouwa Genroku Rakugo, Shinsekai Yori, Kids on the Slope). Plus way more than the examples I gave.

This whole thread is powered by the same generator that makes people say, "Nothing like the classics" to every single other medium under the sun. Finding new things to like is hard, especially as you get older. It's a lot easier to just say it all sucks.

 

[RedHoodedOwl]

While I'm not an avid fan of modern anime, I'm not going to say that retro anime is the best because there are some trashy titles in the past especially in the nineties.

 

[Haly]

Maybe the 4th dimension will bring it back.

A new age of Anime!

I'd rather have twice the number of 2D anime than 4D anime.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

It's handrawn? If so that's amazing. Guess I mean digital art ruined Mecha Anime For me? I think that's a better term

What are you talking about? I think that gif looks incredible. That's the kind of animation you'll hardly ever find in 90s TV anime. Digital art has been a godsend in my eyes.

 

[AppleSeason]

My "has anime changed" moment was at first when they changed from traditional cel painting to CGI colouring. Everything looked so cheap. I pretty much now love the look of 80's and 90's anime just for this.

Then the Moe explosion happened. When I watched the first episode of Lucky Star and said "This shit is what sells now?"

 

[HStallion]

My "has anime changed" moment was at first when they changed from traditional cel painting to CGI colouring. Everything looked so cheap. I pretty much now love the look of 80's and 90's anime just for this.

Then the Moe explosion happened. When I watched the first episode of Lucky Star and said "This shit is what sells now?"

Moe stuff is pretty easy to avoid and there is a wide swath of other things in the anime world.

 

[KillLaCam]

What are you talking about? I think that gif looks incredible. That's the kind of animation you'll hardly ever find in 90s TV anime. Digital art has been a godsend in my eyes.

Oh nah the animaton is great I just don't like how shiny (?) every Mecha Anime mech is now. Never said it was actually worse though. Just a personal taste. It'd be harder to do the whole shiny look that I don't like if it wasnt digital though. I have no problem with digital in 99% of other shows.

 

[B-Dubs]

Everything in this picture is the problem with anime today.

Please, do explain your position.

 

[Cerity]

Do explain

While I wouldn't say that its everything wrong with anime nowadays, it's a nice representation of the general shift between the 90's and now.

The original series paints the world in a darker light e.g. the series starts off with Gon venturing into a dangerous part of the woods & Kite beating his ass for doing so. It also has Gon finding out about and breaking up an rare animal circus/trafficking ring before even leaving Whale Island.

Had to dig around for this but just art style wise;

Original Run:

2011:

This blog post sums it up well IMO.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Since the thread has gone in this direction, it's worth posting Sakuga Blog's article entitled I Can't Believe It's 2017 and I Have to Write that Anime is Hand Drawn, which goes into some of the misconceptions that can arise with the "anime was better made back in the day" mindset.

 

[Work of an Enemy Stand]

Is it still okay to say that I enjoy the aesthetic of anime colored traditionally with ink a lot more than those colored digitally?

At least I think that's the difference. It's not even the general style, whenever old anime comes back with new episodes and they try to emulate the old style, it just never feels right.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

Is it still okay to say that I enjoy the aesthetic of anime made traditionally with ink a lot more than those made digitally?



At least I think that's the difference. It's not even the general style, whenever old anime comes back with new episodes and they try to emulate the old style, it just never feels right.

No, it's cool. It's all a matter of taste after all, but one thing digital art (done well anyway) can be used for is to mask a show's low budget. It all depends on the show after all, though, but I can also appreciate cel-drawn art done well. It can have a unique texture about it that is difficult to emulate, but to each their own I guess.

 

[Haly]

The more accurate terms are "cel" vs "digital".

 

[nailbombxx]

I basically peaced out of most modern anime after the ending of Sword Art Online season 1 involved a pandering pseudo-incestuous relationship with the main character's cousin.

No thanks.

 

[veloxStrix]

Zeus and Hera really gave me the willies. Nope'd right out of Greek folklore. Don't get me started about the Lannister twins and how I could never again touch a fantasy novel written after the 1990s.

 

[DVCY201]

Since the thread has gone in this direction, it's worth posting Sakuga Blog's article entitled [url="https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/06/23/anime-craft-weekly-41-i-cant-believe-its-2017-and-i-have-to-write-that-anime-is-hand-drawn/]I Can't Believe It's 2017 and I Have to Write that Anime is Hand Drawn[/url], which goes into some of the misconceptions that can arise with the "anime was better made back in the day" mindset.

I find that mindset to be ridiculous. If anything, modern animation techniques have allowed for visuals far greater than anything possible before. But I can understand preferring the look and design aesthetics of older anime. Heck, I love the look of Urusei Yatsura, Ranma 1/2, Gunbuster, etc. But I wouldn't say modern shows are inferior just because of that.

 

[Newtype-001]

Theres actually SO many bad posts in this thread my stomach hurts
Its actually embarrassing😫😫😫

 

[KillLaCam]

Is it still okay to say that I enjoy the aesthetic of anime colored traditionally with ink a lot more than those colored digitally?
At least I think that's the difference. It's not even the general style, whenever old anime comes back with new episodes and they try to emulate the old style, it just never feels right.

Yeah this might be my thing too, because most of my complaints with modern Anime usually revolve around them being too bright and colorful.

Like the same thing is happening on both scenes but the DB Super one is just way too bright to me.

Edit: Open the image in a new tab to make it bigger. It's really small in my post for some reason.

 

[MikeHattsu]

I'd rather have twice the number of 2D anime than 4D anime.

Why are you hating animators Haly? They'd all die of overwork

 

[NeonZ]

At least I think that's the difference. It's not even the general style, whenever old anime comes back with new episodes and they try to emulate the old style, it just never feels right.

I don't think I've seen a genuine attempt at going for an older style and failing though. Even something like DBZ -> DB Super, where the character designs are similar, you've got basic style changes, like shading black hair while originally it was pure black, and shading the skin with an extra "light" shade, while the darkest shade is used much less often. Thicker lines also only seem to be used as post-processing effects, rather than drawn manually.

The recent Lupin shows go for a retro style pretty well though, but Lupin was never heavy on shading (aside from a couple of tv specials).

 

[HStallion]

I basically peaced out of most modern anime after the ending of Sword Art Online season 1 involved a pandering pseudo-incestuous relationship with the main character's cousin.

No thanks.

Sword Art Online is both popular and also wildly reviled and the butt of many jokes especially with them calling Kirito the Black Swordsman.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

While I wouldn't say that its everything wrong with anime nowadays, it's a nice representation of the general shift between the 90's and now.

The original series paints the world in a darker light e.g. the series starts off with Gon venturing into a dangerous part of the woods & Kite beating his ass for doing so. It also has Gon finding out about and breaking up an rare animal circus/trafficking ring before even leaving Whale Island.

Had to dig around for this but just art style wise;

Original Run:

2011:

This blog post sums it up well IMO.

I agree that the 1999 anime adaptation of Hunter X Hunter is better directed on the whole than the 2011 one, but I wouldn't extrapolate from these two productions into saying that anime was better directed in 1999 than 2011 altogether.

Yeah this might be my thing too, because most of my complaints with modern Anime usually revolve around them being too bright and colorful.

Like the same thing is happening on both scenes but the DB Super one is just way too bright to me.

Edit: Open the image in a new tab to make it bigger. It's really small in my post for some reason.

There's no question that cel animation has a different look to it naturally than digitally-composited animation, and the color palette here is a clear example. Still, even if it's not going to look the same as cel, it's certainly possible to have digital animation that does not look bright and colorful if the staff aims for that:

Bungo Stray Dogs

Fafner Exodus

Flowers of Evil

From the New World

 

[hateradio]

Anime peaked here:

kawaii~

 

[EvilKatarn]

When Madoka is still seen as the series of the decade,something is seriously wrong.

Why?

 

[KillLaCam]

There's no question that cel animation has a different look to it naturally than digitally-composited animation, and the color palette here is a clear example. Still, even if it's not going to look the same as cel, it's certainly possible to have digital animation that does not look bright and colorful if the staff aims for that:

Yeah I remember watching Flowers of Evil and being blow away with how unsettling the atmosphere was. I don't even think that would have worked with cel animation.

Like here the digital art from Berserk can look alot better than the same scene in the Anime

 

[Work of an Enemy Stand]

I don't think I've seen a genuine attempt at going for an older style and failing though. Even something like DBZ -> DB Super, where the character designs are similar, you've got basic style changes, like shading black hair while originally it was pure black, and shading the skin with an extra "light" shade, while the darkest shade is used much less often. Thicker lines also only seem to be used as post-processing effects, rather than drawn manually.

The recent Lupin shows go for a retro style pretty well though, but Lupin was never heavy on shading (aside from a couple of tv specials).

It might be a bad example due to being an OVA series and from the aughts but, taking Saint Seiya as the example again, the Hades saga OVAs looks very close to the original series style but the coloring of the characters just doesn't "feel" right.

Original 80s anime

2000s OVA

 

[Generate]

Anime has not changed at all.

 

[Kilrogg]

Yeah I remember watching Flowers of Evil and being blow away with how unsettling the atmosphere was. I don't even think that would have worked with cel animation.

Like here the digital art from Berserk can look alot better than the same scene in the Anime

I really don't agree with this particular example, for three reasons:

1) The above picture is from the third feature length movie in a trilogy. The bottom pic is from a 26-episode-long series. The difference in budget alone is monumental. Whatever objective edge you can give to the first pic is down to having more time and resources spent on it. You're doing the reverse "anime was better in the 90s look at this old big budget OVA vs. this new weekly show and see for yourself haha" thing .

2) Both incarnations have vastly different visual takes on the same content. Beyond the low budget, 90s Berserk is deliberately going for a rougher, more painterly aesthetic, which is very apparent when looking at the backgrounds. It tries to replicate the style of the manga, which the movies don't. They're going for a cleaner look.

3) Because they have a different look and the 90s show emulates the manga, I actually think it looks immeasurably better. If you're concerned with visual faithfulness to the source material, 90s Berserk is absolutely the better-looking show. Some would argue that a big part of the Berserk experience, moreso than many other manga, is the visuals. YouTuber Caribou Coon actually did a pretty good analysis about the difficulty of adapting Berserk into an anime, and why, in his view, the 90s show is the only one that comes close to replicating the visual feel of the manga despite its low budget. His video explains what I mean better than I could, so give it a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6CJaChQ7rQ

For the record, I don't mind the movie adaptations too much. They're decent, and they're technically very well made, apart from the 3D. The 3rd movie is clearly the best though. But I still think 90s Berserk looks (and sounds) way better than the movies.

 

[HStallion]

Just watch Castlevania on Netflix and encourage Netflix and other Western content creators to start trying more adult oriented animation that isn't humor focused. Its probably close to what you want anyway.

 

[Savitar]

Please, do explain your position.

I CHOOSE YOU. Sorry to the others that could have quoted.

Basically, the characters, the animation, the style, the stories, just about everything. It's shit. It doesn't matter if it was made in the late 90's or in the 2000's this is the kind of anime that is frankly crap, it's more of the same generic stuff you see in so many anime these days. The same product distilled to the same audience that anime has been chasing now for the last two decades since the market contracted so badly and shrunk.

I don't fault people for liking it if they do and clearly some people do, look how many times I got quoted. Ironically I remember the first the title was talked about on this forum more people lambasted it than not. To me this title and others of it's ilk is the same uninspired drivel that took me largely out of anime, it's more of the norm now than the minority and that's a shame in my view point. I'm aware that some people speak of emotional moments in the show and certain things that happen and again, if those moments were powerful for you hey great. But it's still more of the same of the same to me personally and doesn't reach the heights spoken of.

But I'm not the target audience for this. That's clear.

 

[Hypron]

Just watch Castlevania on Netflix and encourage Netflix and other Western content creators to start trying more adult oriented animation that isn't humor focused. Its probably close to what you want anyway.

When it finally gets translated to English later this year, also give Lastman a watch. It's great.

Edit: Apparently there might be some fansubs available fairly soon. Can't believe it took this long, if it were a Japanese show it'd have been translated in a week or something.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I CHOOSE YOU. Sorry to the others that could have quoted.

Basically, the characters, the animation, the style, the stories, just about everything. It's shit. It doesn't matter if it was made in the late 90's or in the 2000's this is the kind of anime that is frankly crap, it's more of the same generic stuff you see in so many anime these days. The same product distilled to the same audience that anime has been chasing now for the last two decades since the market contracted so badly and shrunk.

I don't fault people for liking it if they do and clearly some people do, look how many times I got quoted. Ironically I remember the first the title was talked about on this forum more people lambasted it than not. To me this title and others of it's ilk is the same uninspired drivel that took me largely out of anime, it's more of the norm now than the minority and that's a shame in my view point. I'm aware that some people speak of emotional moments in the show and certain things that happen and again, if those moments were powerful for you hey great. But it's still more of the same of the same to me personally and doesn't reach the heights spoken of.

But I'm not the target audience for this. That's clear.

The audience of... preteen boys?

 

[airmangataosenai]

Gundam Wing is such a terrible show, I always feel so disconnected from those who wax nostalgia about it.

 

[HStallion]

I CHOOSE YOU. Sorry to the others that could have quoted.

Basically, the characters, the animation, the style, the stories, just about everything. It's shit. It doesn't matter if it was made in the late 90's or in the 2000's this is the kind of anime that is frankly crap, it's more of the same generic stuff you see in so many anime these days. The same product distilled to the same audience that anime has been chasing now for the last two decades since the market contracted so badly and shrunk.

I don't fault people for liking it if they do and clearly some people do, look how many times I got quoted. Ironically I remember the first the title was talked about on this forum more people lambasted it than not. To me this title and others of it's ilk is the same uninspired drivel that took me largely out of anime, it's more of the norm now than the minority and that's a shame in my view point. I'm aware that some people speak of emotional moments in the show and certain things that happen and again, if those moments were powerful for you hey great. But it's still more of the same of the same to me personally and doesn't reach the heights spoken of.

But I'm not the target audience for this. That's clear.

This was several paragraphs of "it sucks because its not for me". If most of your argument is,"It's shit" then that says more about you than it does the anime.

 

[Haly]

Gundam Wing is such a terrible show, I always feel so disconnected from those who wax nostalgia about it.

Yes but on the other hand

 

[faridmon]

The anime industry changed. The main reason is money.

There's not as much money in anime anymore and to cope studios have mostly decided to target the most hardcore otakus. The moe stuff you see today is what that audience wants. More mainstream-palatable anime still gets mode, but its a bit harder to find.

Yeah, this is the main problem.

OP, you and the industry have changed. While there were more quality shows every season, money have been a big problem with some of these studios, so producing quality shows constantly is difficult due to their lower sales

You still get amazing ones here and there (See SNAFU if you haven't, because its just incredible) but yeah, quality ones are far and fewer in between

 

[MHWilliams]

Gundam then:

Gundam now:

Where did we go wrong?

One is the first Gundam. The other GIF is a fanservice show literally about toys.

Here's the latest real Gundam.

Iron Blood

Thunderbolt

Gundam didn't leave anyone behind.

Yeah, this is the main problem.

OP, you and the industry have changed. While there were more quality shows every season, money have been a big problem with some of these studios, so producing quality shows constantly is difficult due to their lower sales

You still get amazing ones here and there (See SNAFU if you haven't, because its just incredible) but yeah, quality ones are far and fewer in between

I agree the industry had leaned in a direction, but there's also the fact that we only remember the best of those older years. As someone who's been watching anime since the VHS days, there was a whole lot of cruft folks have forgotten.

 

[Savitar]

This was several paragraphs of "it sucks because its not for me". If most of your argument is,"It's shit" then that says more about you than it does the anime.

As is your reply about you.

I've read these debates for years now, even participated more than a few and traded enough words. Eventually one gets tired of it and settles to being blunt or not speaking at all because there is little point. The argument will always go on.

 

[HStallion]

As is your reply about you.

I've read these debates for years now, even participated more than a few and traded enough words. Eventually one gets tired of it and settles to being blunt or not speaking at all because there is little point. The argument will always go on.

I was just pointing out your argument was basically a diatribe. You said nothing in all that. Don't bother if you're gonna be lazy and bitter about it and don't bother next time.

 

[Savitar]

I was just pointing out your argument was basically a diatribe. You said nothing in all that. Don't bother if you're gonna be lazy and bitter about it and don't bother next time.

I see one person being very bitter.