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[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

They basically did for b/w though. 150 or so new Mon and nothing else until postgame or so was just one of the reasons I enjoyed those games a lot more than other recent Pokémon games.

BW isn't really the same as what that poster was suggesting.

 

[MrRudiMentary]

.

I don't really get why Charizard is considered a rival to Blastoise. Surely Blastoise can destroy Charizard in one or two hits?

 

[jnWake]

I liked Cyrus' battle in Platinum. I love his character though, easily the best villain in the series.

 

[Reset]

I don't really get why Charizard is considered a rival to Blastoise. Surely Blastoise can destroy Charizard in one or two hits?

Blastoise is the weakest out of the three starters.

 

[Mr-Joker]

Yes many times.

In Gen 4 Cyrus battle was epic because you were fighting a twisted person who not only tricked people about his true plan but he also tricked his own team.

He also views Pokémon as tools and doesn't care for him, but yet he is a tough trainer to fight and you have to fight Giratina straight after who is also tough.

And then we have the Sinnoh Champion and not only is she the best champion but she's is the toughest.

There was a reason why player got scared when they went into her villa in Unova, her Garchomp is the stuff of nightmare.

Then in gen 5 we have the final battle with N in Black and White, plus Ghetsis in Black and White 2 was not only epic but he was pretty tough.

And in Gen 6 Zinnia was an interesting character with a tragic past, she lost her daughter, and the climax of Delta Episode involves the player riding a freaking Rayquaza into space to destroy a meteorite and fighting a Deoxys.

So yeah the battle with Red has been surpassed.

Gold and Silver were intended to be the last games I think? Maybe that's why they had such an epic fight at the end.

Nope, they planned to continue with the series after Gold and Silver.

I haven't played any Pokémon game since Silver on the GBC.

But I'm still going to say no.

And how would you know that if you haven't played a single Pokémon game after Gold and Silver.

What about Wally in Alpha sapphire?

Dat music

Who?

I disagree with that!

Red works because he was, for most players, THEM. Symbolically, players of Gen II already became the world's greatest Pokémon Trainer in Red and Blue. They had all eight badges, they defeated the champion, and now they were the best of the best. They were the new standard for the all-time greats.

This is all very dramatic, but again, this is within the context of the universe. While Blue's championship status was short lived, Red's became a legacy, because of the projected talent and nature of the actual player.

Gold and Silver is a parallel journey, but it's also very much the same. You are another ordinary kid with a similar sprite. You are even red. But in your journey, you do twice as much. Twice as many badges, twice as many Pokémon, everything in Gold and Silver is bigger and more. But rather than dethrone Red, the player's previous experience, Gen II maintains Red as the standard. To truly become the best and the greatest, again, you must surpass all of your own accomplishments. Not just quantitatively, but qualitatively and symbolically.

You must surpass the bar you already set. You must defeat Red.

Red is representative. Red is the final challenge that asks the player to prove they have become even stronger and even better than the end game of Gen I. By beating Red, you have finally continued YOUR OWN legacy as a player by redefining what it means to be the best.

Red is not me, The player that I played in gen 1 has a different name and a different set of Pokémon.

I don't really get why Charizard is considered a rival to Blastoise. Surely Blastoise can destroy Charizard in one or two hits?

That's why Blastoise is Charizard's rival.

Blastoise is the weakest out of the three starters.

You're joking right?

Blastoise is the strongest out of the Kanto starter and this is coming from someone who loves Charizard.

 

[Reset]

You must have skipped 6th gen. Venusaur and Charizard are both better than Blastoise. Blastoise isnt even in the same league compared to them.

 

[CronoShot]

No. And I don't think any ever will.

I honestly don't even remember the fight with N all that well. It was just another battle to me.

 

[Dion Blaster]

exactly

That's not nostalgia though, that word implies a long amount of time passing between events. It was literally part of the story/continuity of the games. If G/S never had Red as the final boss and they brought him back gen 4 or 5 then you would have an argument.

 

[GoldStarz]

That's not nostalgia though, that word implies a long amount of time passing between events. It was literally part of the story/continuity of the games. If G/S never had Red as the final boss and they brought him back gen 4 or 5 then you would have an argument.

It's still nostalgia, there were a good three, almost four, years between Red/Green and Gold/Silver, while it's still only two years for English-speaking countries (except Europe, that was apparently three years), that's still enough time for it to take on nostalgic meaning, adding to that time passing and the fight in G/S becoming itself nostalgic and yeah, it's pretty easy to say that the memorability of the fight is based on nostalgia, although even I don't completely agree with that.

 

[Madness]

Fighting the previous protagonist as the final boss is the coolest thing ever to me.

It's just the sheer surprise too. Red is basically Ash, and this is at the height of the Pokémon show as well. You have a sequel to a really super popular game, and after you've done everything, there is one thing left, and it's fighting Red/Ash, the hero of the past game as a final boss, and he's got ridiculously high level Pokémon etc.

 

[FSLink]

You're joking right?

Blastoise is the strongest out of the Kanto starter and this is coming from someone who loves Charizard.

Absolutely not. Even if you take into account just Gen 1, it's Venusaur > Blastoise > Charizard, or Gen 2 it's Charizard > Venusaur >= Blastoise

TBH, I've always had a harder time with Cynthia than I ever did with Red. It's true his levels were higher but by that time after going through TWO Pokemon Leagues, your Pokemon were around those levels, too.

Not really unless you grinded. There's a pretty big level jump from Blue (Lv58 is his highest) and Mt. Silver (Lv48-52) to Red. There's also only one Pokemon League in Gold/Silver.

I had a harder time with Cynthia too but that's mostly because her team's just overall stronger.

 

[Professor Renegade]

The only thing that comes close is Fighting Blue at the end of R/B/Y.

 

[GoldStarz]

There's also only one Pokemon League in Gold/Silver.

Last time I checked, you could still fight the Kanto gyms in G/S/C.

 

[LeonSPBR]

No.

That's the single best fight in the entire series and hasn't ever been topped.

This. That battle was epic. SO good.

 

[FSLink]

Last time I checked, you could still fight the Kanto gyms in G/S/C.

Misread it as just the Elite Four. Either way, the levels are gradual considering the last gym in Johto only has them as Lv39-40.

 

[Solid Samus]

colress.

this motherfucker is basically the sephiroth of Pokemon. It's not even like you hate him, you just wanna beat his ass

but seriously, the ascent to Mount Coronet's peak and subsequent battle vs. Cyrus during Gen IV, is just as epic, IF NOT MORESO, than gen 2's final battle. Straight up. And I lived that shit as a kid, whereas I played Gen 4 as an adult. Gen IV was the first and last Pokemon game to treat facing the plotline boss like it was a fucking gauntlet of challenge. You had to bust your ass through a mountain route twice as long as any fucking Victory Road, and just as challenging, to face this fucker

 

[Boss Doggie]

The fight versus Red simply has a ton about it more than JUST a Pokemon battle. In terms of fights, at the time, it WAS the hardest fight they had put against the player. Level 75-81 Pokemon whereas the Elite 4 ha previously topped out at 65, with Legendaries topping out at 70. But it was really everything else leading up to it, and surrounding it that has made it so special to many players.

I'd argue that he might have levels, but his mons were trash. Only decent mons he had at the time were Lapras and Umbreon.

It's why I said Cynthia as far as surpassing a battle is concerned, since she got a nice variety and really good mons to back up.

The only thing that comes close is Fighting Blue at the end of R/B/Y.

I thought it was a copout though, that the supposed champ fight had mons with shitty moves. He didn't improve until the remakes.