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[Loki]

How do you define "indigenous people" in this context?

Extant peoples, particularly those who have been living in the same area for more than one generation.

 

[DoktorEvil]

It'd be a huge loss for NYC considering I've yet to find anywhere else that makes them like you find them back in DR. All golden and beautiful.

Those buildings really bring down the visual appeal of neighborhoods :/. Generally, at least in Brooklyn luxury buildings are nicer to look at/fit within the neighborhood(generally, there are some that look ridiculous).

Probably a terrible architect for that specific building.

The ones that look extremely modern always look terrible from a practical POV.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I love uber!! For one reason, yellow cab drivers are assholes, and so are most people hailing cabs.

Cab drivers don't even want to cross central park anymore. I was used to not being able ti get a cab late night if I had to go to the Bronx or Brooklyn but now these a-holes refuse to go above 96 or crosstown.

I waited for 30 minutes yesterday for a cab because I had to bring an easel to work so I need one the larger suv cabs. They would just refused to stop! So I said fuck it and installed uber, got an suv in 10 minutes.

 

[Original Famous Ray]

lmfao best chicharon. i actually work in the school in front of elsas during the summer. That would be a huge loss for the neighborhood.

Speaking of gentrification those new modular apartments they made in broadway right by academy stick out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood.

I lived south of that building for 2 years (184th and Broadway). Hideous thing..

I was priced out myself as the landlord wanted $1550 for my Jr 1 bedroom and on my salary that was just impossible. Not a big deal really as I was more than happy to move back to my old Bronx hood but man.. Washington Heights and Inwood (West of Broadway) is getting really pricey. East of Broadway is still very "Santo Domingo" but for how long?

 

[pj]

That comes down to the city council and the Mayor's office allowing for rezoning of derelict/abandoned industrial and commercial buildings to build better use/mixed use residential. Frankly, the city needs it.

Could the infrastructure handle that amount of people? All the Brooklyn train lines I use already suck shit during commute times. Higher density in places with poor train support would also mean more cars and even worse traffic.

And why would someone want to build up outer queens or bk for the middle/lower class when they can put up a billion dollar sky scraper in the footprint of like 4 townhouses and sell condos starting at $17 million?

I really don't see a way to fight against the money that's flooding into this city.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Could the infrastructure handle that amount of people? All the Brooklyn train lines I use already suck shit during commute times. Higher density in places with poor train support would also mean more cars and even worse traffic.

And why would someone want to build up outer queens or bk for the middle/lower class when they can put up a billion dollar sky scraper in the footprint of like 4 townhouses and sell condos starting at $17 million?

I really don't see a way to fight against the money that's flooding into this city.

Because the city will usually fund/subsidize a middle to lower class building with lower interest bonds.

Developers build for different reasons. There is more than one way to turn a profit in Real Estate, not just the simple "Build and flip".

 

[Doc Holliday]

Whats the justification for the increase?

Colombian presbyteryan is buying large amounts of buildings and turning them into student housing or building new offices. The high rent in ues, uws and downtown is driving people north increasing demand. Apartments are much larger in the heights and inwood.

And train access!

 

[pj]

That comes down to the city council and the Mayor's office allowing for rezoning of derelict/abandoned industrial and commercial buildings to build better use/mixed use residential. Frankly, the city needs it.

And there are housing situations that are okay. Sorry it can't always be desirable.

I had a friend who moved much farther from a place right near his job & into Ridgewood & into a smaller apartment simply because the building accommodated dogs. He pays more rent for a shittier space.

So yes I take issue with people who are adamant about living in areas that are trendy spots and not looking at the bigger picture.

I would like to point out the distinction between desirable and trendy. I live in fort greene which is desirable but I would argue not trendy. There are only a few actually trendy neighborhoods in BK/Queens, the other desirable neighborhoods are simply nice places to live that are close to manhattan (park slope, clinton hill, prospect heights, astoria, etc etc).

Let me put it this way. If I can afford $3000 for my apartment, and some dude is willing to pay $3100, should he say "oh, I don't want to force someone out, I'll stay where I am and have a longer commute and have fewer nice bars/restaurants/venues near me"? Should my landlord say "I know people are willing to pay more, but I don't need the money so I'll keep the rent where it is"?

 

[yencid]

I lived south of that building for 2 years (184th and Broadway). Hideous thing..

I was priced out myself as the landlord wanted $1550 for my Jr 1 bedroom and on my salary that was just impossible. Not a big deal really as I was more than happy to move back to my old Bronx hood but man.. Washington Heights and Inwood (West of Broadway) is getting really pricey. East of Broadway is still very "Santo Domingo" but for how long?

Not very. Inwood is developing at a really rapid pace, Dyckman for example looks very different than it did lets say 5 years ago. Dyckman and its surroundings have become very hip, very inviting. Lots of new restaurants, bars and clubs. And the area itself just looks inviting. You have fort tryon, the cloisters, inwood park, la marina. People notice.

Honestly inwood is a beautiful place and people are moving in because of it.

 

[Cagey]

Could the infrastructure handle that amount of people? All the Brooklyn train lines I use already suck shit during commute times. Higher density in places with poor train support would also mean more cars and even worse traffic..

The infrastructure right now can barely handle it. The Vernon-Jackson stop on the 7 train was an absolute shitshow from 2011-2013, and as I was leaving LIC, there were at least 2 40+ story highrises under construction, in addition to lesser-capacity new condo units. I'm talking wait twice to muscle into the third train that pulled up at 8;15am.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Not very. Inwood is developing at a really rapid pace, Dyckman for example looks very different than it did lets say 5 years ago. Dyckman and its surroundings have become very hip, very inviting. Lots of new restaurants, bars and clubs. And the area itself just looks inviting. You have fort tryon, the cloisters, inwood park, la marina. People notice.

Honestly inwood is a beautiful place and people are moving in because of it.

The cool thing is that a lot of those new businesses are largely Dominican owned and retain that Dominican feel.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I would like to point out the distinction between desirable and trendy. I live in fort greene which is desirable but I would argue not trendy. There are only a few actually trendy neighborhoods in BK/Queens, the other desirable neighborhoods are simply nice places to live that are close to manhattan (park slope, clinton hill, prospect heights, astoria, etc etc).

Let me put it this way. If I can afford $3000 for my apartment, and some dude is willing to pay $3100, should he say "oh, I don't want to force someone out, I'll stay where I am and have a longer commute and have fewer nice bars/restaurants/venues near me"? Should my landlord say "I know people are willing to pay more, but I don't need the money so I'll keep the rent where it is"?

A Landlord will not slight you because of 100 dollars.

What landlords want ideally is long term tenants who will pay rents on time, without issue, and who do not damage the apartments. They want to earn their piece back but also maintain the integrity of the building.

At least, when I say landlords, I mean career landlords. Not landlords who are skirting by on AirBNB and landlords who are breaking all kinds of safety regulations. Slumlords drag down my line of work so often.

 

[yencid]

The cool thing is that a lot of those new businesses are largely Dominican owned and retain that Dominican feel.

Thats for the ones that own the locale. If not they are leased. As the neighborhood becomes more popular, the leases go up. They get driven out. Lots of new cupcake shops.

The one thing that really gets to me about some of the people that move into inwood (certain ones) is that they act like the people that have been living here, owning their businesses, keeping their culture through those businesses should leave, get out.

Shit you come to a predominantly Dominican neighborhood and you dont want it to feel Dominican?

 

[entremet]

Whats the justification for the increase?

Gentrification. More and more middle class New Yorkers are moving to Washington Heights/Inwood. It's still technically Manhattan, so there's an appeal. Although some blocks are still drug dealer infested.

Inwood has Fort Tryon, which is very nice.

 

[captmorgan]

I`m starting to get the feeling that soul/charm/culture/grit/exciting seem to be code words for crime, poverty and dangerous area to live in. Some people in this thread are treating living or growing up in a shitty area is a badge of fucking honor.

It just seems so surreal reading some of these posts Alot of them sound like "ya man I lived in a crime infested. dirty area with a abandoned building everywhere.

Now fucking cupcake shops are opening up everything has been cleaned and painted. Crime is down and people can walk around with out risk of being assaulted. Fuck this place its so boring and SOULESS now!"

When your culture revolves around, highlights, and includes crime its hard to feel bad when that culture is sweeped away.

 

[entremet]

lmfao best chicharon. i actually work in the school in front of elsas during the summer. That would be a huge loss for the neighborhood.

Speaking of gentrification those new modular apartments they made in broadway right by academy stick out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood.

They're cheaper to build compared to the prewar construction.

Incidentally, that's why pre-war buildings are so prized in NYC. They have better materials.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Not very. Inwood is developing at a really rapid pace, Dyckman for example looks very different than it did lets say 5 years ago. Dyckman and its surroundings have become very hip, very inviting. Lots of new restaurants, bars and clubs. And the area itself just looks inviting. You have fort tryon, the cloisters, inwood park, la marina. People notice.

Honestly inwood is a beautiful place and people are moving in because of it.

Yep, it's a nice neighbourhood.

The cool thing is that a lot of those new businesses are largely Dominican owned and retain that Dominican feel.

Yes, sadly most of these restaurants that popped up on Dyckman are owned by the same dude though.

 

[Haly]

Oh my.

 

[entremet]

I`m starting to get the feeling that soul/charm/culture/grit/exciting seem to be code words for crime, poverty and dangerous area to live in. Some people in this thread are treating living or growing up in a shitty area is a badge of fucking honor.

It just seems so surreal reading some of these posts Alot of them sound like "ya man I lived in a crime infested. dirty area with a abandoned building everywhere.

Now fucking cupcake shops are opening up everything has been cleaned and painted. Crime is down and people can walk around with out risk of being assaulted. Fuck this place its so boring and SOULESS now!"

When your culture revolves around, highlights, and includes crime its hard to feel bad when that culture is sweeped away.

Not really.

I grew up in a relatively safe neighborhood.

It has more do with local businesses dying, while everything becomes boring chains with no personality, like the rest of surburbia.

It's happening in Manhattan the most honestly. We're losing some of the best restaurants to cookie cutter chains due to rent increases.

 

[Valhelm]

Extant peoples, particularly those who have been living in the same area for more than one generation.

I'm not say that this has happened or will happen, but hypothetically:

If a wealthier group is pressured to move out of an area because of legitimate fears of increased crime and worsening services, after many low-income people move in, is that just as bad?

 

[DoktorEvil]

They're cheaper to build compared to the prewar construction.

Incidentally, that's why pre-war buildings are so prized in NYC. They have better materials.

There were more sound construction methods in a lot of those pre-war buildings, but according to sustainable realtors, are not resource friendly.

It depends on whom you ask about when it comes to better materials.

 

[entremet]

There were more sound construction methods in a lot of those pre-war buildings, but according to sustainable realtors, are not resource friendly.

It depends on whom you ask about when it comes to better materials.

Of course. Also requires more skilled labor for that type of construction.

A lot of the sustainable stuff is prefab.

 

[captmorgan]

Not really.

I grew up in a relatively safe neighborhood.

It has more do with local businesses dying, while everything becomes boring chains with no personality.

It's happening in Manhattan the most honestly. We're losing some of the best restaurants to cookie cutter chains due to rent increases.

OK but why is that? People are obviously going and spending money at these "boring chains" Why are local business unable to compete? If the people moving in have money then an increase in prices should be no problem to cover the rent increase. In fact it should be easier because the local guys dont have the massive franchise fee`s that the cookie cutter places have to pay.

As well shouldn't it also be easier for the unique small restaurant to stand out?

 

[entremet]

OK but why is that? People are obviously going and spending money at these "boring chains" Why are local business unable to compete? If the people moving in have money then an increase in prices should be no problem to cover the rent increase. In fact it should be easier because the local guys dont have the massive franchise fee`s that the cookie cutter places have to pay.

As well shouldn't it also be easier for the unique small restaurant to stand out?

The reason the boring chains are there is because they can afford the rents. They're corporations so they have access to more capital.

Mom and Pops don't have as much access to capital compared to a multinational.

People don't visit NYC for the chains, but for the unique stuff.

 

[Cagey]

The reason the boring chains are there is because they can afford the rents. They're corporations so they have access to more capital.

Mom and Pops don't have as much access to capital compared to a multinational.

People don't visit NYC for the chains, but for the unique stuff.

Times Square and Fifth Avenue be like...

I mean, I get your point that there's people who visit for unique stuff (or really small chains, like Max Brenner, for example) but there's tons of people visiting to hit up chain stores.

 

[DoktorEvil]

The reason the boring chains are there is because they can afford the rents. They're corporations so they have access to more capital.

Mom and Pops don't have as much access to capital compared to a multinational.

People don't visit NYC for the chains, but for the unique stuff.

People visit/tourist around manhattan.

They don't do the same for the other 4 boroughs.

Otherwise, I'd be happy to push Queens joints like Ottomanelli's.

 

[captmorgan]

There were more sound construction methods in a lot of those pre-war buildings, but according to sustainable realtors, are not resource friendly.

It depends on whom you ask about when it comes to better materials.

I still have a hard time believing this, I grew up doing construction and renovations on older homes 30, 50 years a couple over a 100 on Vancouver island.

Lathe and plaster has almost no R value for insulation, between the beams shredded newspaper was commonly used. One room we stripped behind all the plaster was 8 feet high hornet nests. I`ve seen structure support beams that were just pieces of random sized wood nailed together. Lead based paint, Nothing was fire resistant and when it was it was asbestos. Thats not even getting into the "wiring" or "pipes" in older places. The amount of mold that we found in and around pipes...scary.

So ya while some of the design was cool fuck me most places pre war are death traps

 

[Christopher]

I recently visited NYC for the first time in a long time.

Parts of my family have been there since the late 19th century and other parts came in around World War II during the Holocaust. They have all sorts of amazing old photo albums and boxes of pictures of the Bronx and Manhattan over the last 100/125 years and the city has really changed.

I noticed that it seemed like New York used to be a place where all social classes coexisted. There were parts of the city that were affordable for everyone and there was culture in the city that had deep ties to the area due to being there for so long.

Has this changed? When I was in Brooklyn and Manhatten 90% of the people I saw were richsters and financial ("squares") people. Even when I used to live there (the early 90s) it seemed like area had tons of locals that had been there with their families for many generations. Even most of the shops have changed and are owned by people that relocated and corporate chains. My parent's house that they purchased as a fixer upper in the 70s for less than $20,000 is now worth like 3 million.

What parts of New York City haven't been gentrified? or for the most part is everywhere kinda trendy there now?

So from your visit in years you were able to determine this? New York is the most diverse and cultural city I've ever seen...live and work here so you get to know it well.

 

[captmorgan]

The reason the boring chains are there is because they can afford the rents. They're corporations so they have access to more capital.

Mom and Pops don't have as much access to capital compared to a multinational.

People don't visit NYC for the chains, but for the unique stuff.

ok then the unique stuff should be able to easily increase their prices to match the rent.

IF anything this sounds like a golden opportunity for mom and pop places, you have a wealthy and abundant clientele that has moved into the area just for you.

The only thing it sounds like is the small restaurant should form a collective, so they have more bargaining power when negotiating prices with suppliers. Its much easier to get a bigger discount when your buying in bulk. If they did that they would be unstoppable no chain could compete.

 

[Valhelm]

The reason the boring chains are there is because they can afford the rents. They're corporations so they have access to more capital.

Mom and Pops don't have as much access to capital compared to a multinational.

People don't visit NYC for the chains, but for the unique stuff.

Are there actually more boring chains? From my experiences, most restaurants and bars brought by gentrifies are small businesses. Certain Fast Food chains (Church's Chicken or Popeye's) seem to be some of the first to be moved out during gentrification.

 

[Loki]

I'm not say that this has happened or will happen, but hypothetically:

If a wealthier group is pressured to move out of an area because of legitimate fears of increased crime and worsening services, after many low-income people move in, is that just as bad?

As I noted earlier, moving out of an area due to demographic or other social issues (change in culture, crime rate etc.) is still a choice. Being unable to pay a 100-200% rent increase or afford a home which is 50-80+x the median wage in the area is not a choice. There's a difference.

 

[NYCrooner]

Shit you come to a predominantly Dominican neighborhood and you dont want it to feel Dominican?

That's a narrow way of looking at it. It's not the ethnic component of the neighborhood that bothers them, it's the quality of life. My white co-worker and my Latino brother have separately moved to the Heights because the apartments were cheap and big. What they didn't enjoy was the loud music, drug dealing, street fights, racing cars, sounds of gun fire, and other aspects of the Heights that not even the most die-hard Dominican can deny exist and is not an "endearing" component of the neighborhood. My co-worker has stayed and seen improvements (via the constant gentrification) but my brother and his Dominican wife have since left.

As minorities we can't always be ignorant to the challenges we may present to a community through our cultural differences.

 

[Ingueferroque]

How is displacing indigenous peoples ever not a bad thing? How can the same arguments commonly used to support the idea of indigenous peoples remaining in their homelands not be adduced - albeit less forcefully, since we are all in fact from the same nation - in arguing against gentrification and arguing that indigenous people do in fact have a greater claim to land, having laid their roots down there and made lives, oftentimes over many generations. Just because we're from the same nation doesn't change the tenor of the argument.

Wow, indigenous? Really? So let's give Inwood back to the dutch then? Or how about we make it into an Indian Reservation? Fuck. I don't know where you guys are drawing the line, but this is just bizarre. Nobody likes the rent in NYC, nobody but the 1% is going to be 'for' increased rent, taxes, and costs. So I don't see where the argument is.

New York City should be a free-for-all, a melting pot, for anyone from anywhere. We do not need to draw any lines or tell people they can/can't live somewhere. If you think 'Gentrified' is a bad or racial term, that's OK. I'm just happy a once ignored neighbourhood is finally being looked after, to the benefit of everyone living here.

 

[pj]

Are there actually more boring chains? From my experiences, most restaurants and bars brought by gentrifies are small businesses. Certain Fast Food chains (Church's Chicken or Popeye's) seem to be some of the first to be moved out during gentrification.

Chains are phase 2 of gentrification. Phase 1 is fancier local stuff.

Williamsburg has entered phase 2, which is why there was so much kerfuffle about the starbucks that opened there recently. It'll soon be like Soho with its crocks store and endless sunglasses and clothing chains.

The reason they can afford the insane rents is because those individual locations DON'T need to make money. They are flagship/prestige stores that make the brand look better overall. They also have lower costs (pay workers less, cheaper supplies from buying in giant quantities)

 

[jay23]

Bronx may be the only borough left without gentrification. Though I did see someone on Twitter jokingly refer to south Bronx as Sobro.

 

[richiek]

There were more sound construction methods in a lot of those pre-war buildings, but according to sustainable realtors, are not resource friendly.

It depends on whom you ask about when it comes to better materials.

Supposedly, pre-war buildings are more sound proof than modern buildings, so there's that.

Bronx may be the only borough left without gentrification. Though I did see someone on Twitter jokingly refer to south Bronx as Sobro.

The Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown episode on the Bronx does a great job in detailing this.

 

[Cagey]

Chains are phase 2 of gentrification. Phase 1 is fancier local stuff.

Williamsburg has entered phase 2, which is why there was so much kerfuffle about the starbucks that opened there recently. It'll soon be like Soho with its crocks store and endless sunglasses and clothing chains.

The reason they can afford the insane rents is because those individual locations DON'T need to make money. They are flagship/prestige stores that make the brand look better overall. They also have lower costs (pay workers less, cheaper supplies from buying in giant quantities)

The Dunkin Donuts on Vernon Blvd in LIC met fierce resistance before it won.

Neighborhood was better with the Dunkin Donuts, naturally.

 

[captmorgan]

Chains are phase 2 of gentrification. Phase 1 is fancier local stuff.

Williamsburg has entered phase 2, which is why there was so much kerfuffle about the starbucks that opened there recently. It'll soon be like Soho with its crocks store and endless sunglasses and clothing chains.

The reason they can afford the insane rents is because those individual locations DON'T need to make money. They are flagship/prestige stores that make the brand look better overall. They also have lower costs (pay workers less, cheaper supplies from buying in giant quantities)

Ok so let Starbucks sit there paying their insane rent. I was just told that nobody goes to these areas for chain/corporate stores. So while it sits empty, everybody is going next door to Voodoo coffee or what ever the trendy coffee shop is called.

 

[Gorillaz]

nah 100 but yea it's getting there

honestly I'm conflicted on it, alot of my family had to leave the area because of the rise in housing


it's hilarious but the joke awhile back that most of NY workers actually live in North Jersey is basically happening. Everyone "native" is getting pushed out

 

[Valhelm]

As I noted earlier, moving out of an area due to demographic or other social issues (change in culture, crime rate etc.) is still a choice. Being unable to pay a 100-200% rent increase or afford a home which is 50-80+x the median wage in the area is not a choice. There's a difference.

Oh, right. That's something I hadn't considered, thanks.

 

[DoktorEvil]

The Dunkin Donuts on Vernon Blvd in LIC met fierce resistance before it won.

Neighborhood was better with the Dunkin Donuts, naturally.

Fierce Resistance? From who?

Dunkin operates a near monopoly in NYC. They're all over the place in the Northeast.

 

[AlphaSnake]

lmfao best chicharon. i actually work in the school in front of elsas during the summer. That would be a huge loss for the neighborhood.

Speaking of gentrification those new modular apartments they made in broadway right by academy stick out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood.

That pic is real? It looks like a really cheap CG render that real estate builders throw together.

:x

 

[Slo]

I`m starting to get the feeling that soul/charm/culture/grit/exciting seem to be code words for crime, poverty and dangerous area to live in. Some people in this thread are treating living or growing up in a shitty area is a badge of fucking honor.

It just seems so surreal reading some of these posts Alot of them sound like "ya man I lived in a crime infested. dirty area with a abandoned building everywhere.

Now fucking cupcake shops are opening up everything has been cleaned and painted. Crime is down and people can walk around with out risk of being assaulted. Fuck this place its so boring and SOULESS now!"


When your culture revolves around, highlights, and includes crime its hard to feel bad when that culture is sweeped away.

That's one way to read it.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I`m starting to get the feeling that soul/charm/culture/grit/exciting seem to be code words for crime, poverty and dangerous area to live in. Some people in this thread are treating living or growing up in a shitty area is a badge of fucking honor.

It just seems so surreal reading some of these posts Alot of them sound like "ya man I lived in a crime infested. dirty area with a abandoned building everywhere.

Now fucking cupcake shops are opening up everything has been cleaned and painted. Crime is down and people can walk around with out risk of being assaulted. Fuck this place its so boring and SOULESS now!"

When your culture revolves around, highlights, and includes crime its hard to feel bad when that culture is sweeped away.

It's funny because it's true. I personally always hated growing up in NYC. Sure it gave me some sort of personality, but it also made me realize that growing up in a tiny, dirty, rat infested shit hole full of 10 million people on top of you every day isn't exactly normal and nothing to be proud of. Especially when I live in a country as vast as America and I have plenty of other options to live in and still be able to enjoy city life, society, culture, and better quality of life overall...and do it all on a landmass that can actually house a large quantity of people.

So I moved to another state.

 

[.GqueB.]

I`m starting to get the feeling that soul/charm/culture/grit/exciting seem to be code words for crime, poverty and dangerous area to live in. Some people in this thread are treating living or growing up in a shitty area is a badge of fucking honor.

It just seems so surreal reading some of these posts Alot of them sound like "ya man I lived in a crime infested. dirty area with a abandoned building everywhere.

Now fucking cupcake shops are opening up everything has been cleaned and painted. Crime is down and people can walk around with out risk of being assaulted. Fuck this place its so boring and SOULESS now!"

When your culture revolves around, highlights, and includes crime its hard to feel bad when that culture is sweeped away.

Yea, people aren't out and out saying this but that's certainly the feeling I get. I'd be interested in hearing how many of those people actually grew up in those areas and, more importantly, still live in them.

Sounds like a few fit into that category but many of these arguments feel very detached.

 

[entremet]

Yea, people aren't out and out saying this but that's certainly the feeling I get. I'd be interested in hearing how many of those people actually grew up in those areas and, more importantly, still live in them.

Sounds like a few fit into that category but many of these arguments feel very detached.

I moved back to the Bronx due to high Manhattan rent.

Unlike what the general media would tell you, not all of it is a shithole. Heck, Riverdale is one of the highest income areas here.

The grittiness I miss isn't from my neighborhood, which wasn't that bad honestly, but Manhattan itself.

 

[Air]

Yea, people aren't out and out saying this but that's certainly the feeling I get. I'd be interested in hearing how many of those people actually grew up in those areas and, more importantly, still live in them.

Sounds like a few fit into that category but many of these arguments feel very detached.

I've lived in bad neighborhoods all my life. I didn't choose to live in them because I was you and we had to go to where my parents wanted to. I keep seeing this misalignment of the argument, that people arguing against gentrification don't want nice places or don't want a Starbucks or want to live in a bad neighborhood because it's 'ghetto and got charm, yo'. That's an ignorant comment to make especially when several people went out of their way detailing why exactly they're against gentrification for multiple pages. Polarizing this argument- especially when there are so many factors at play doesn't seem like it's going to enlighten anybody.

I guess it starts to be a problem when it's actually at your doorstep though for some people.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Yea, people aren't out and out saying this but that's certainly the feeling I get. I'd be interested in hearing how many of those people actually grew up in those areas and, more importantly, still live in them.

Sounds like a few fit into that category but many of these arguments feel very detached.

From the stories my dad, my uncles, and his cousins all told me about Williamsburg in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, I have no wishes for the area or NYC to go back to that point ever again.

They talk about the gang stuff like the area was a warzone.

 

[entremet]

From the stories my dad, my uncles, and his cousins all told me about Williamsburg in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, I have no wishes for the area or NYC to go back to that point ever again.

They talk about the gang stuff like the area was a warzone.

Union Square was pretty disgusting too.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Union Square was pretty disgusting too.

The LES had a big problem with drugs too, when punk rock was still a very popular thing.

The Bowery then was the most dangerous area in NYC.