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Has Nintendo delivered a gameplay "Revolution"?

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RiskyChris said:
What significance do average review scores have?

Well, an average of industry review scores is the best estimation of quality we have. If we just want to go buy sales numbers, then EA is teh awesome :lol

Is the Wii fun because the games or fun or because the controller is fun to use? I'm leaning twoards the controller, and that's not a good sign for the long term success of the Wii.
 
Tyrannical said:
Well, an average of industry review scores is the best estimation of quality we have. If we just want to go buy sales numbers, then EA is teh awesome :lol

Is the Wii fun because the games or fun or because the controller is fun to use? I'm leaning twoards the controller, and that's not a good sign for the long term success of the Wii.

Really?

I reckon that if the games are fun now mostly because of the controller, imagine how good they could be when they're actually AAA games that really utilise the controller.
 
Wii Sports is great, but so far the "revolution" has been confined to the minigame realm. All the real games got delayed to the second half of this year. It's still too early to call. Ask this question again in half a year.
 
Alkaliine said:
Really?

I reckon that if the games are fun now mostly because of the controller, imagine how good they could be when they're actually AAA games that really utilise the controller.

Exactly. The entirety of Wii's success thus far has been based on shit games. By next year, it'll be DSL all over again.
 
I would say Elebits, Trauma Center, and DBZ Budokai are good examples of Wiimote useage in non mini-game scenarios.
 
What i think is revolutionary about the Wii is that the motion sensing controller is standard for the console. Games like boxing against ur TV with gloves, playing Tennis with a racket have been done before (never tried them, probly crappy compared to Wii, but the concept is the same), but they have been game hardware for themself, stuff you connect directly to your TV if you know what i mean, not standard controllers like the Wii. Doesnt revolution means "sudden change"? By this, then i would say Wii is a sorta a revolution.
 
I think Nintendo has delivered a revolution industry - wise that is kind of spectacular. Wii and DS both contributed in a major way, but i do not think those systems will deliver a real revolution. Perhaps though, 10 years on, we will look back at the Wii as the first system that pursued aggressively the shift to motion - based gameplay, as every console will feature some kind of motion sensing interface itself.
 
Keita Takahashi was right. Originality comes from developers, not from the interface. As the system continues to get more popular we'll start seeing some more great experiments with the Wii, but unoriginal devs are always going to be unoriginal no matter the tools you give them.
 
HAL_Laboratory said:
Revolution:

1) a drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving
2) a relatively sudden and drastic change

Thats what i thought, tnx :) By this definition i would say that Wii is sorta a revolution since we have basicly been using a "normal" handcontroller as standard for the last 20-30 years. Nintendo changed that and i would say that is a pretty drastic change.
 
Annoying Old Party Man said:
I think Nintendo has delivered a revolution industry - wise that is kind of spectacular. Wii and DS both contributed in a major way, but i do not think those systems will deliver a real revolution. Perhaps though, 10 years on, we will look back at the Wii as the first system that pursued aggressively the shift to motion - based gameplay, as every console will feature some kind of motion sensing interface itself.
I agree that might be the case, they might revolutionise the industry (for better or worse), but that doesn't mean the games necessarily have been
 
HAL_Laboratory said:
Exactly. The entirety of Wii's success thus far has been based on shit games. By next year, it'll be DSL all over again.

I must be the only person on GAF legitimately enjoying Mario party 8. :lol
 
RiskyChris said:
I must be the only person on GAF legitimately enjoying Mario party 8. :lol

I'm enjoying the reviews. :lol

But I must say -- I'd give it a chance if I weren't so turned off from every other MP since the first couple on 64.
 
Wii is a revolution, but not the one neogaffers expected.

WiiSports, like it or not, is a milestone in the gaming industry, just like Nintendogs and Brain Training before.
 
MY EYEBALLS ARE DISSOLVING

Cats, cats, everywhere AUUUGGGHHH

...

Nintendo has indeed delivered a gameplay revolution. Just perhaps not the revolution you wanted or expected.
 
Yeah, Wii Sports is a Revolution - you gotta be ****ing shitting me! Shadow of the Colossus or Sly were more of a revolution than anything Nintendo put out in the last nine years.

So no, they didn't deliver at all. The opposite is true, they're dragging gaming down and holding the industry back with their lowtech-lowgameplay shenanigans.
 
Smiling Bandit said:
Yeah, Wii Sports is a Revolution - you gotta be ****ing shitting me! Shadow of the Colossus or Sly were more of a revolution than anything Nintendo put out in the last nine years.

So no, they didn't deliver at all. The opposite is true, they're dragging gaming down and holding the industry back with their lowtech-lowgameplay shenanigans.

You are amusing.

To the OP. I'd say yes. But they need to bring out a second game to back it up.
 
What's the last game controller to come out and have this much of an impact on a game company's fortunes or caused this much of a commotion in hardcore + mainstream press + regular Joe public all at the same time?

Its never happened before, so in that case I'd say Nintendo accomplished what they wanted with the controller already. Even with the NES or N64 controllers I don't remember anywhere close to this kind of a buzz over a controller.

Now as the months go on, of course there will be games that utilize the controller in better ways.

Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Manhunt 2, Final Fantasy: Crystal Bearers, Dragon Quest Swords, Boogie, No More Heroes, etc. I think will have something to say.

But the games this year IMO are already using the Wiimote in better ways. SSX Blur, The Godfather, Resident Evil 4 Wii, are all starting to show the Wiimote can enhance hardcore game genres too.
 
They have delivered it partly. Wii Sports and parts of certain games have been pretty revolutionary, but there is still heaps of room for improvement.
 
Smiling Bandit said:
So no, they didn't deliver at all. The opposite is true, they're dragging gaming down and holding the industry back with their lowtech-lowgameplay shenanigans.

We must remember the French revolution , wich was
indeed a revolution.

Did the Church
and
did the monarchs
think it was a "good"
revolution?

No

As ever, the populace loves the revolution.
the
"elite"
does
not.
 
RiskyChris said:
Wii sports says yes.
.
Smiling Bandit said:
Yeah, Wii Sports is a Revolution - you gotta be ****ing shitting me! Shadow of the Colossus or Sly were more of a revolution than anything Nintendo put out in the last nine years.

So no, they didn't deliver at all. The opposite is true, they're dragging gaming down and holding the industry back with their lowtech-lowgameplay shenanigans.
:lol
 
Smiling Bandit said:
Yeah, Wii Sports is a Revolution - you gotta be ****ing shitting me! Shadow of the Colossus or Sly were more of a revolution than anything Nintendo put out in the last nine years.

So no, they didn't deliver at all. The opposite is true, they're dragging gaming down and holding the industry back with their lowtech-lowgameplay shenanigans.
:lol

Well, at least this thread is good for a laugh! (especially the SotC and Sly comments)

Wii is a revolution, some hardcore gamers, mainly Sony and Xbox fans, are having difficulty seeing this but it's not going to change what's happening. Wii Sports is a landmark game, just as SMB, Mario 64, Resident Evil, Gran Turismo, GTA, Halo, Nintendogs, Brain Training, etc, are. The fact some people dislike it doesn't mean shit. I dislike GTA and Halo, but their influence on gaming is undeniable.

The funniest people are those who believed bigger, better, more realistic, more involving versions of PS2/Xbox games would actually draw in a wider audience :lol In fact, there are still some clinging onto this delusion.

However, it does seem like we're having a lot of the same threads recently...
 
ziran said:
:lol

Well, at least this thread is good for a laugh!

Wii is a revolution, some hardcore gamers, mainly Sony and Xbox fans, are having difficulty seeing this but it's not going to change what's happening. Wii Sports is a landmark game, just as SMB, Mario 64, Resident Evil, Gran Turismo, GTA, Halo, Nintendogs, Brain Training, etc, are. The fact some people dislike it doesn't mean shit. I dislike GTA and Halo, but their influence on gaming is undeniable.

The funniest people are those who believed bigger, better, more realistic, more involving versions of PS2/Xbox games would actually draw in a wider audience :lol In fact, there are still some clinging onto this delusion.

However, it does seem like we're having a lot of the same threads recently...


It doesnt get much wider than 100 million...So until Wii does that, hold your horses
 
Starchasing said:
Ive heard it doesnt work quite as advertised. I never played it but i guess they are not as good as Nintendo doing software, and WiiSports is an outstanting piece of software. Nintendo has done what xavis tried. Thats why Conan played Wii tennis with serena Williams and not xavixtennis,

I havnt tried Xavix so i cant tell, but from the screenshots Wii sports looks better :)


PkunkFury said:
yes I have

we've had just as many xavix threads as we have had "Has Nintendo delivered a gameplay "Revolution"?" threads.

Xavix is awesome, and they delivered the true revolution. Nintendo is just riding Xavix's coat tails

How is the gameplay on them? I've only tried Wii Sports myself. Is it just as good, better or worse?
 
I do think the Wii has changed the industry, but the gameplay change it offers hasn't been as drastic or as compelling as I had hoped...but it's still early, so I'll have to wait and see. Also, even with all that the Wii does right, and regardless of it's uber-sales, it's not the "end all be all" answer to my gaming needs, it's just another valid console to own.
 
jordan0386 said:
It doesnt get much wider than 100 million...So until Wii does that, hold your horses
But that's the point!

PS2 was huge, nobody is denying this, but it represents the peak of a certain type of gaming, which is being continued en force by PS3 and 360, while Wii is picking up the other, more casual/social elements. Things change, they always have and always will. Most of these realistic games, the true evolution of gaming as some comics put it, are declining at an alarming rate yet their budgets are sky rocketing. This is a shit business model.

Look at the much lauded Dead Rising and Lost Planet, just about making it to a million each, last gen these kinds of games were selling 2-3 times more, with much lower dev costs. And look at the PS3/360 situation in Japan, these games are just not the draw they once were.

There are many on this board clinging onto the hope MGS, FF, DMC, GT, GTA etc are going to be the biggest games this gen but I just can't see this happening, given how these franchises and styles of games have declined in popularity. They're like the big 80s over the top blockbusters which just became old, and people grew tired of them. The big games this gen are going to be new, and Wii Sports is already one of them.

The most significant way these movie like examples of true gaming are going to be big is in their budgets and potential losses.
 
jordan0386 said:
Waggle gaming is not THE future, its part of the big picture...but it wont end up number 1, imo

I think "waggle" or whatever you want to call it will be incorporated in all future game consoles (Sony/MS/Nintendo whatever) from here on out in some way or another.

Ditto for touchscreen and handhelds.
 
test_account said:
How is the gameplay on them? I've only tried Wii Sports myself. Is it just as good, better or worse?

I was going to give this more joke answers, but it seems you're genuinely curious. Unfortunately, I played Xavix outside on a sunny day. This isn't really fair to Xavix as their equipment is, I believe, entirely optical tracking based. I also think it works with a camera on the system looking out at the player and the tracked device (opposite the Wii), which means much more interference since you have no idea what is behind the player (think eyetoy). needless to say, the performance of the system was terribly sketchy.

I played baseball, tennis, and bowling for about an hour. Some worked way better than others, though this is in part because I had no idea how to play and because of the sun. From what i remember, baseball was the only one I felt I really understood. Pitching was cool (you use a ball for pitching and a bat for batting), but batting was in first person I think, so it was really hard to time things right. Xavix tennis was also in first person, which made it nigh unplayable. They also made us stand very far away from the TV to play each sport (like 7 feet at least) which made the timing in first person even weirder. They likely did this because XaviX is looking for the targets in different locations depending on the sport you play, so it needs a wide field of view (but how far can you get and still see those lights!?) they had tape down for us to tell us where to stand, but I'm not sure it was in the right place, particularly for bowling. In short, Xavix is very picky about location.

Bowling should have been better, but I think the machine it was on was set up wrong, because the result of throwing the ball was really random and didn't always cue. Another problem with Xavix tracking the device, is that you never know when the device is occluding itself, unless you really study it and figure out where the IR points on the device exist. I may have been swinging the bowling ball in a manner Xavix couldn't "see". When the Wii uses the pointer, you always have an on screen indicator, not because it's necessary, but because they want you to know when you aren't being tracked...

If you want to try it, it would be best to play on an in store demo somewhere. Having played Wii Sports, I'd like to try Xavix again (and in a better environment) to really compare, but I doubt I'd like the results. Ironically, the time I played it, they were touring with Nintendo about a year before the Wii was announced (conspiracy???) and Nintendo was there with Metroid Prime 2 and holding Smash tournaments. If xavix is using all optical tracking, it actually could make for theoretically better tracking for some sports (boxing could actually punch where you are placing your fist, baseball could give you a high or low swing) but the design of the games left you as a disembodied force, making it really difficult to interact. This type of design requires stereo vision.

The big problem with Xavix is that the console itself is basically only the camera, and the chipset for each game is largely in the cartridge. Therefore, each time you buy a game you purchase new tracking nodes in novelty shapes as well as a new cartridge/chipset. The result is very expensive, and the graphics weren't so hot. While I can't fairly comment on the gameplay, Nintendo has 10uped them on accessibility and price, packing all sports in one "free" game, and removing the optical tracking completely from the sports improve the accessibility beyond compare. Wii Sports works far better than I expected it to, for being so limited by the internal sensors. When I realised Wii SPorts was tracking all itnernal, I thought it would suck compared to Xavix, but it seems that is not the case
 
Smiling Bandit said:
Yeah, Wii Sports is a Revolution - you gotta be ****ing shitting me! Shadow of the Colossus or Sly were more of a revolution than anything Nintendo put out in the last nine years.

Time magazine labelled it the best game ever. Wii sports could turn out to be the biggest system seller ever and you dont think it is revolutionary?

Such a narrow POV.
 
Smiling Bandit said:
Yeah, Wii Sports is a Revolution - you gotta be ****ing shitting me! Shadow of the Colossus or Sly were more of a revolution than anything Nintendo put out in the last nine years.

So no, they didn't deliver at all. The opposite is true, they're dragging gaming down and holding the industry back with their lowtech-lowgameplay shenanigans.
IAWTP
except for the Sly part
 
No.

Iwata said it would offer, 'a new way to play', and that's what I think it does.

But it's not a revolution, people put too much focus on the name.
 
jett said:
No.

Wii Sports? ...I guess a Tennis game where the CPU plays for you is kind of a revolushun.


Have you even PLAYED Wii Sports? Im guessing no right? Because the actual gameplay of Wii Tennis is far deeper than any alternative Tennis Game.
 
PkunkFury said:
I was going to give this more joke answers, but it seems you're genuinely curious. Unfortunately, I played Xavix outside on a sunny day. This isn't really fair to Xavix as their equipment is, I believe, entirely optical tracking based. I also think it works with a camera on the system looking out at the player and the tracked device (opposite the Wii), which means much more interference since you have no idea what is behind the player (think eyetoy). needless to say, the performance of the system was terribly sketchy.

I played baseball, tennis, and bowling for about an hour. Some worked way better than others, though this is in part because I had no idea how to play and because of the sun. From what i remember, baseball was the only one I felt I really understood. Pitching was cool (you use a ball for pitching and a bat for batting), but batting was in first person I think, so it was really hard to time things right. Xavix tennis was also in first person, which made it nigh unplayable. (cutting quote to save space)

Thanks for the detailed answer :) My question was indeed genuine. Its always cool to hear how other game hardware works compared to other stuff.
 
The revolution is the fact that people who weren't interested in games can now enjoy games. Same as the DS, (even my mum is now a keen DS player). The facility to play a pointer based game whilst sitting on the couch and enjoying a cup of tea... this is the revolution.
 
The more important revolution is Sony struggling to sell stockpiles of PS3s and firing people left and right while Nintendo prints money and commands a majority of the market in the "new" generation.
 
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all say they want "revolutionize" gaming, but honestly it's all bullshit anyway.

If you gave all three of them the option of

A.) Revolutionizing gaming.

versus

B.) Selling a ton of game machines and making a ton of money off a mainstream product.


They all want option B, not option A. Option A. is only a means to an end for these companies. And right now, Nintendo is doing a better job of option B than Sony or Microsoft are.

Nintendo had to come up with a different type of console because traditional Nintendo consoles were losing relevance to the mainstream. The Wii has effectively reversed that trend and you can bet your ass that the suits at Sony and MS are envious of the machine's success.
 
soundwave05 said:
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all say they want "revolutionize" gaming, but honestly it's all bullshit anyway.

If you gave all three of them the option of

A.) Revolutionizing gaming.

versus

B.) Selling a ton of game machines and making a ton of money off a mainstream product.


They all want option B, not option A. Option A. is only a means to an end for these companies. And right now, Nintendo is doing a better job of option B than Sony or Microsoft are.

Nintendo had to come up with a different type of console because traditional Nintendo consoles were losing relevance to the mainstream. The Wii has effectively reversed that trend and you can bet your ass that the suits at Sony and MS are envious of the machine's success.


Nintendo would choose to be the pioneers of gaming revolution simply because gaming is their bread and butter.
Sony and MS obviously have their hands dipped in other markets primarily and so their agenda lies elsewhere (Eg pushing Bluray through PS3)
 
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