Support NeoGAF

[RazzleDazzleRB]

I found this on IGN's Ten Reasons to Wait for PS3 (instead of getting a 360):

"... The coolest part is that PS3 may also be able to enhance the older games. Much in the same way PS2 improved PSOne games with better texture filters and enhanced load times, we expect PS3 games to add even better texture filtering, quicker loads, full scene anti-aliasing graphics and goodness knows what else... hopefully, we're right."

Has anything like this been hinted by or confirmed by Sony?

 

[Amir0x]

No. And it seems like IGN hasn't heard any hints either.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Nothing. All thats been said by Sony (shown on a PP Slide) is thats its to be BC for up to 98%? of Playstation and PS2 titles (together).

 

[gofreak]

Nothing. All thats been said by Sony (shown on a PP Slide) is thats its to be BC for up to 98%? of Playstation and PS2 titles (together).

They didn't give a percentage like that. They mentioned 13,000+ titles, and that there would be backwards compatability to enjoy them, or something like that. Which would lead one to assume that they're aiming for as close to 100% as possible, but they didn't specify a percentage.

As for enhancement, not only has Sony mentioned nothing about that, but I wouldn't expect it. Maybe scaling of resolution, if that'll be standard for any game, but depending on the title you may not want that anyway. I'd be perfectly happy to simply have comprehensive and quality BC, given the shift in hardware architecture.

 

[Zaptruder]

PS1 games... should be supported via a hardware chip much like it was on the PS2.

That said, it should also have software emulation that allows maximum enchancements to be used. If they could do this with 98% compatibility, then they don't really need the hardware chip to do anything.

PS2 games should be the same way if possible.

 

[LAMBO]

I'm hoping for ps2 on a chip, ps1 being software emulated, leading to a large percentage of games being BC. I could care less about enchancements, all they do is lead to incompatability, if there are enchancements they must be selectable.

Look at the 360, emulation makes the games look good, but they don't play good or at all.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I would pray for and be happy with one and only one universal feature: make every PS2 game support progressive scan output, 'cause we all know without that -they look like kentucky fried crap- on widescreen televisions.

 

[Ranger X]

I hope it does enhance PS1 games more than the PS2 did because it would make us return to those games more. It's hard to go back at most games because it looks so damn horrible.

 

[Wollan]

I just got a Sony Bravia and obviously this baby should be able to output a 480p image so I tried God of War but the screen just goes black. Doesn't S-video cable support 480p?

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Doesn't S-video cable support 480p?

No. Component cables only.

And BTW, if the PS2 BC is done "on a chip" then by default the PS1 should also be on the same chip since the PS1 chip does the sound processing for the PS2.

 

[pcostabel]

I just got a Sony Bravia and obviously this baby should be able to output a 480p image so I tried God of War but the screen just goes black. Doesn't S-video cable support 480p?

No, you need component for that.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

No. Component cables only.

And BTW, if the PS2 BC is done "on a chip" then by default the PS1 should also be on the same chip since the PS1 chip does the sound processing for the PS2.

I thought the PS1 chip was for I/O.

 

[RazzleDazzleRB]

I would pray for and be happy with one and only one universal feature: make every PS2 game support progressive scan output, 'cause we all know without that -they look like kentucky fried crap- on widescreen televisions.

This is what I am hoping for.

 

[Fatghost]

It would be nice if they can make PS2 games not look like shit on an HDTV.

 

[BocoDragon]

I remember we didn't know about PSone enhancement on PS2 until the last minute.... In fact, they announced there would be no enhancements, but when it launched in Japan we found out about Texture Smoothing/Fast Loading.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I thought the PS1 chip was for I/O.

Well, I knew it was for something. You're probably right. The point is though that it's a necessary part of the PS2 "architecture" so if the PS2 is a "system on a chip" then PS1 BC should be exactly like it is now.

Of course, if PS2 BC isn't "on a chip", they're going to have a fun, fun time getting good BC rates. Not as bad as Xbox, but I'm sure it won't be "98%" as some were saying. Let's hope they go for the PS2 on a chip with PS3.

Also, they're going to have to have PS1 memory card ports, right? I mean, they couldn't handle saving PS1 games on PS2 Memory cards this time, so unless they go with some kind of software BC, we're still going to need our PS1 Memcards, right?

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I remember we didn't know about PSone enhancement on PS2 until the last minute.... In fact, they announced there would be no enhancements, but when it launched in Japan we found out about Texture Smoothing/Fast Loading.

True, but the PS1 enhancements were minimal at best. I'm hoping for higher resolutions, although the PS1 software could suffer greatly from it.

 

[LAMBO]

I hope it does enhance PS1 games more than the PS2 did because it would make us return to those games more. It's hard to go back at most games because it looks so damn horrible.

You probably won't play many older games then. BC isn't about making your old games new, it's about playing the old game you loved. If you want prettier versions of your old games, pray for next gen sequels. I think the only objective a BC system needs to acheive is maximum compatabilty.

If the new consoles are soooo powerful that they can perfectly emulate the older hardware and provide enchancements that's great, but looking at the 360 BC sitiuation, i don't think we can emulate the last gen with the current and provide enchancements.

 

[Ranger X]

You probably won't play many older games then. BC isn't about making your old games new, it's about playing the old game you loved. If you want prettier versions of your old games, pray for next gen sequels. I think the only objective a BC system needs to acheive is maximum compatabilty.

If the new consoles are soooo powerful that they can perfectly emulate the older hardware and provide enchancements that's great, but looking at the 360 BC sitiuation, i don't think we can emulate the last gen with the current and provide enchancements.

Just look at some emulators like bleem were doing. It's not really costly on ressources and power. Also, if there are games where it would be better for the emulator to enhance less stuff in favor of compatiblity then that's fine.
The thing is, i know it's not the focus of BC. It would just make the BC even better and impress more people, make the people play more -- wich is all a good thing for you because you want to have the largest userbase possible.

 

[The End]

I'm just hoping for ZOE2 with less slowdown.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I like to dream and hope for BC not being region specific so that I don't have to wait for a mod for the PS3 to play all my imports and shit

has there been any word on if the PS3 is going to be Region coded or not, I thought there were some rumors that it wasn't going to be, hence my dreaming for BC not being region specific

 

[The End]

The best we could probably hope for is a "region optional" approach like MS uses, where western pubs regio-lock all of their games so that Europeans can't buy cheaper NA copies, and most JP games are region-free.

 

[DSN2K]

AA would be nice

 

[inpHilltr8r]

I thought the PS1 chip was for I/O.

The PS1 bit of the PS2 is known as the IOP, and most of the PS2's OS runs on it. The sound chip is called SPU2, and is 2 copies of the PS1 sound chip, the SPU, chained together. SPU2 mostly just plays sound data straight out of it's internal memory, with very little control flow (basically looping). Developers typically use a sound library that runs on the IOP to control SPU2, and stream extra sound data into it, from disc, or other memory banks, like IOP or EE (main) memory. SPU2 and IOP are directly connected by their own bus, which makes IOP the natural place to put sound code. Think of SPU2 as a sampler, and IOP as a sequencer, like Cubase, and you're there.

However, normal sound processing typically takes less than 5% of IOP's cpu power, so some developers also use it for other stuff, like managing data streaming. IIRC Jak & Daxter also use it to calculate visibility, but they're crazy.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I just want to see a good clean death to PS2-era jaggies.

 

[Wario64]

I'm just happy with 100% BC

 

[Jonnyram]

I'm just happy with 100% BC

If the PStwo can't get that, I don't see how the PS3 can

 

[mrklaw]

I kind of expect PS1 and PS2 in software. Surely the PS2 chip still costs a lot, and it also takes up some fab space that they'd want to free up for the CELL.

Unless they've gone even farther and integrated it into the CELL or RSX. how many transistors on the EE+GS?

 

[Rhindle]

I kind of expect PS1 and PS2 in software.

I hope you're right. That should be good for a laugh.

 

[erlim]

I don't think sony has said anything being sony. But wouldn't it be easier to emulate the software so that the drivers or whatnot could be updated at a later date to make 80% compatibillity to 95% or something?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I really don't give a flying f*ck, as long as every damn PS2 game is playable. Here is hoping they don't botch it like MS.

 

[Drek]

I kind of expect PS1 and PS2 in software. Surely the PS2 chip still costs a lot, and it also takes up some fab space that they'd want to free up for the CELL.

Unless they've gone even farther and integrated it into the CELL or RSX. how many transistors on the EE+GS?

I'd be real surprised if PS2 is done in software. The power gap between PS1 to PS2 was pretty damn big and Sony still needed to include original PS1 chips to get solid emulation. Sony is also likely capable of pricing the PS2 around where the PS1 was priced when the PS2 originally came out.

From a compatability standpoint I'd bet it'll be PS2 in hardware, PS1 in software. The later could probably see some major upgrades in texture smoothing and framerate without much of a compatability hit, but the later will likely not see much upgrading since Sony will be all about high compatability and nothing else.

 

[Amir0x]

If the PStwo can't get that, I don't see how the PS3 can

I'll be happy with 90%. But anything less is :|

 

[The End]

IIRC, Ken said that PS1 would be in software this time around, but PS2 would be hardware.

 

[Juice]

I recall an article a few months back that Sony was having problems with PS2 BC, anyone got a link?

Also, I don't have my hopes up, but they'd better get their shit together and at least make PS2 games playable on fixed-rez HDTVs. I bought a Sony-fucking-Bravia, which makes every non-Sony console look incredible, but shits all over its own kind.

 

[Mmmkay]

I recall an article a few months back that Sony was having problems with PS2 BC, anyone got a link?

Also, I don't have my hopes up, but they'd better get their shit together and at least make PS2 games playable on fixed-rez HDTVs. I bought a Sony-fucking-Bravia, which makes every non-Sony console look incredible, but shits all over its own kind.

Yeah there were a few articles around the time when that PSTwo model came out with the lower PS1 support.

http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/25/so-will-or-wont-the-sony-playstation-3-be-backwards/
http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/archives/2005/10/compatibility_i.html#more