so you've fired an arrow over competitive distances?
edit - and what iamshadowlark says below
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HBO's 'Real Sports' panel laughs at eSports segment
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so you've fired an arrow over competitive distances?
edit - and what iamshadowlark says below
iamshadowlark
Banned
Bullshit. There's nothing easy about shooting a real bow(55lbs DW and up).
ryutaro's mama
Member
They have only still watched real sports since the beginning of recorded human history.
I guess you've been out of touch since before you were born...that is, if you are being serious.
Heh, all good. But it seems rather silly to not call golf a sport. It is massively boring, but it takes physical skills.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I don't really give a shit about eSports, but I recognize and acknowledge it and I also think it is a sport.
Bryan Gumbel does too, respect to him.
The definition of sport is an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment. Competitive gaming does include physical exertion whether you think so or not, it's just a fact that there is some physical exertion, and a great amount of skill is involved whether it is individually or with a team and people compete against each other for entertainment.
Bryan Gumbel does too, respect to him.
The definition of sport is an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment. Competitive gaming does include physical exertion whether you think so or not, it's just a fact that there is some physical exertion, and a great amount of skill is involved whether it is individually or with a team and people compete against each other for entertainment.
I'm all for defending esports but shooting a bow is most certainly not "easy as piss", especially not if you don't use all the fancy stuff of say, a modern hunting bow.
jaundicejuice
Member
There probably isn't a person on that panel that's likely below the age of 35, so there's an obvious generational gap. The fact that the Star Trek convention joke came from the gentleman who appeared to be the oldest member of that panel amuses me greatly.
I don't know why people are getting offended, it's like when grandpa says something mildly racist or ignorant at a family gathering when company is over. You just patronisingly pat him on the shoulder, give him some more rum so he'll nod off and carry on with the conversation.
I don't know why people are getting offended, it's like when grandpa says something mildly racist or ignorant at a family gathering when company is over. You just patronisingly pat him on the shoulder, give him some more rum so he'll nod off and carry on with the conversation.
The worst part of this is calling "Real Sports" a panel. You shouldn't have people on a panel acting like kids, mentally. But that's media today I guess. Though I haven't watched TV for like 6 years. And from what I've heard not much have changed.
I don't really see the problem in calling it a sport myself. In some way it really is. Esports have generally a shorter lifespan for players. Because the younger you are, the faster your reactions speed is. But you also have to mature mentally to make the right decision and make plans before and during the competition. Which of course you only get by practice and experience.
I don't really see the problem in calling it a sport myself. In some way it really is. Esports have generally a shorter lifespan for players. Because the younger you are, the faster your reactions speed is. But you also have to mature mentally to make the right decision and make plans before and during the competition. Which of course you only get by practice and experience.
I don't see anything wrong with separating typical sports with 'electronic' sports like this. It certainly is a bit different, don't you think?
Anyways, my impressions are probably a bit biased by some of the more ridiculous videos I've seen, but the current state of esports competitions does seem a bit embarrassing. Or at least I can sympathize with those who get that impression.
Its the job of any sport to market itself and if it wants people to take it seriously, it should get out there and try and show people why. Easier said than done, obviously, but that's the uphill battle they need to fight.
Wow. I'm unpopular.
My first post was worded incredibly badly so:
I think all of those "sports" take great skill etc. and I think those that play them are amazing and talented.
However, from a personal perspective I view them more as "activities" than traditional sports. They take a great deal of skill but I don't view the ones I listed as overly physically exerting which I personally view as a requirement for something to be called a sport. Also, one could argue that with the sports I listed you are playing yourself more than anyone else.
Golf, yeah, maybe I can get behind. Your incredibly well worded response has convinced me.
Again, that's not a knock at the professionals that play them as I definitely can't do what they do. My post was never intended to take away from anyone's accomplishment.
lazorexplosion
Member
*cough*
*cough*
Try to comprehend that I was *comparing* the physical difficulty of drawing a bow to doing 300 APM. Drawing 55lp bow is not easy, but it's not physically that hard. Having the insane manual dexterity to shoot at an olympic level is a whole nother thing.
Guess what, 300 accurate APM is very physically difficult at the level of manual dexterity. It's insane. Somehow I suspect you've never even tried that and have no idea of how difficult it is to physically achieve esports level manual dexterity.
Competitive activities that require high levels of manual dexterity but not 'athleticism' per se are already accepted as sports.
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
My issue is with it's labeling as a "sport". It's not a sport, call it something else.
To think it further, may the separation could work, since video games itself is pretty diverse and to put all of them in sports bracket could make things muddled. Esports term should be used similarly to atlethics, which consist multiple kind of sports. But it should stopped there, no other e-preffix things that related to esports so it doesn't make the term feels exclusive.
lazorexplosion
Member
There has never been any real distinction on what level of athleticism counts as a sport.
Yea, that's mostly what I think the intention is. To just have 'sports' and everything that falls under that and then 'esports' and then everything that falls under that. A squad-based Halo competition is certainly a bit of a different beast than a 1 vs 1 StarCraft competition or something, even though they are both video games.
I love how she repeats, "it's a game", how does America find these buffoons?
Aren't all professional sports games or hobbies taken to a competive level, really bizzare how a show about sports would have clueless people that can't wrap there heads around changing concepts.
I guess saying "get with the times gramps" would be accurate because all the young looking ones didn't say anything but the lady who agreed it was a sport. This doesn't surprise me though, eventually when núero gaming becomes rampant like in animes like log horizon and sword art online, or games like .hack, maybe then these people will realize their idealogical stupidity but they will be dead by then and I'll be a grandpa.
Aren't all professional sports games or hobbies taken to a competive level, really bizzare how a show about sports would have clueless people that can't wrap there heads around changing concepts.
I guess saying "get with the times gramps" would be accurate because all the young looking ones didn't say anything but the lady who agreed it was a sport. This doesn't surprise me though, eventually when núero gaming becomes rampant like in animes like log horizon and sword art online, or games like .hack, maybe then these people will realize their idealogical stupidity but they will be dead by then and I'll be a grandpa.
honeymustardn
Member
Doesn't really matter if some random old people validate it or not. They're doing it.
Jprobespierre
Banned
This is a pretty simple argument. The definition of an athlete is "a person who is trained in or good at sports, games, or exercises that require physical skill and strength."
Since professional gamers by definition are not athletes, their profession is not a sport. Neither are pool players, dart throwers, poker players, chess players and many other competitions that are based on games.
At the end of the day most profession athletes would tell you they are a professional baseball player, football player, soccer player, race car driver, basketball player, etc. first and an athlete second.
Getting paid and calling yourself a professional to do what you love is more important then trying to legitimize yourself in the same breath as LeBron James, Peyton Manning, Tiger Woods, Miguel Cabrera, Usain Bolt, Jimmy Johnson or Lionel Messi.
On a side note, it takes a certain amount of balls to strap you self into a car that was designed to go as fast as fucking possible (165+ MPH) around a asphalt surface for 500+ miles. Fuck that, the 463.8 miles (7-7.5 hours) it takes me to drive from Twin Peaks San Francisco to Laguna Beach for the holidays leaves me fucking exhausted and sore when I am done. And that is just dealing with douchy J.B Hunt truck drivers and clowns in prius' doing 65 in the passing lane.
ITS NOT THE FUCKING HOV LANE!!! GET THE FUCK OVER!!! Argh... FML... Tuesday is going to suck.
Since professional gamers by definition are not athletes, their profession is not a sport. Neither are pool players, dart throwers, poker players, chess players and many other competitions that are based on games.
At the end of the day most profession athletes would tell you they are a professional baseball player, football player, soccer player, race car driver, basketball player, etc. first and an athlete second.
Getting paid and calling yourself a professional to do what you love is more important then trying to legitimize yourself in the same breath as LeBron James, Peyton Manning, Tiger Woods, Miguel Cabrera, Usain Bolt, Jimmy Johnson or Lionel Messi.
On a side note, it takes a certain amount of balls to strap you self into a car that was designed to go as fast as fucking possible (165+ MPH) around a asphalt surface for 500+ miles. Fuck that, the 463.8 miles (7-7.5 hours) it takes me to drive from Twin Peaks San Francisco to Laguna Beach for the holidays leaves me fucking exhausted and sore when I am done. And that is just dealing with douchy J.B Hunt truck drivers and clowns in prius' doing 65 in the passing lane.
ITS NOT THE FUCKING HOV LANE!!! GET THE FUCK OVER!!! Argh... FML... Tuesday is going to suck.
Gaz Pwnage
Member
Yeah you are right, you wouldnt become a hockey fan. Realisticaly if Fifa crumbled tomorrow, you would still be a football fan and you would watch the next association that pops up offering what Fifa used too. If LoL dies for example, that doesnt mean eSports cease to exist.
SneakyStephan
Banned
'Mericun says it's not a sport, league of legends players could not deny
Old jokes aside, i'd say mobas and rts count as an esport, and skillbased shooters like quake or ut , doesn't chess count as one too?
If they were going to show call of duty I'd have agreed with them though
Old jokes aside, i'd say mobas and rts count as an esport, and skillbased shooters like quake or ut , doesn't chess count as one too?
If they were going to show call of duty I'd have agreed with them though
iamshadowlark
Banned
I comprehend that fine, you're still full of shit.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
A-fcking-men.
I will never understand the fascination with being called an 'athlete' that some of you have. Is it not enough to be a paid professional? The "sport" monicker is so arbitrary that it's not worth losing sleep over. For example, as a dancer myself, I train long hours day and night, getting my body into peak physical condition, in order to compete for limited spots in auditions and roles. None of that entitles me to being called an athlete, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm much more proud to be a professional dancer. Gamers should all be proud to bear the title of "professional" and stop tying themselves to some notion that they need athletic acceptance to be validated in any way, shape or form.
lazorexplosion
Member
300 APM is a physical feat, no question, and it requires a lot of practice to reach that.
That said, if we talk about highest level competitive play in esports i assume we also talk about the highest level in bow shooting, which is anything but easy and requires a lot of technique and dexterity as well.
One can say that esports is demanding without putting down other demanding activities
Sword Of Doom
Member
Ok so for those who say it's not a sport then neither is Golf. Hand/eye coordination right
I agree, but I doubt things will change.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Tag quote all you want but you're the one trying to downplay the strength, precision, and accuracy required to shoot a bow in comparision to a video game. You speak like a guy thats never been hunting a day in his life. Shooting 60lbs-70lbs across your back accurately is one of the most physically demanding things you could do in sports.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think people are getting off topic here. The issue isn't whether or not eSports are sports, but the fact that eSports elicits such negative reactions from people. Maybe Poker and NASCAR and Pool and Darts aren't sports either but at the very least they are games. Games which are popular enough to be televised on sports networks and covered without risk of ridicule.
The question is what makes those games different from competitive video games? Or maybe more to the point, why do people care so much about other people's entertainment choices as to use that to judge them as "losers"?
The question is what makes those games different from competitive video games? Or maybe more to the point, why do people care so much about other people's entertainment choices as to use that to judge them as "losers"?
Imperfected
Member
I'm not particularly sure why it needs to be a sport. That's not to say that I don't understand the reasons Riot has tried to classify it as such for things like athletic visas and tax purposes on events and promotions, but in terms of the "prestige" of being a "real" sport, I honestly don't think it's worth pursuing.
You don't have to be an "athlete". You can be an "entertainer" or a "performer". This is a world with rock stars, actors, idols, and "personalities". There's honestly more negative baggage associated with "sport" as a term than prestige compared to most of those things. The only reason it sticks is because of convenience: because there are teams, players, and competitions, so it's closer in nature to a sport than other entertainment activities.
Quite a few League players obviously understand this. The entire reason they make so much money streaming is because they've figured out that what they actually are is entertainers, and that's a much more valuable thing than an athlete. An entertainer is a brand that builds value and can continue to have it long after their glory days are done; aside from a handful of Jordan-like success stories, most athletes are chewed up and spat out before they're even past their prime.
Don't aspire to be athletes. Aim higher. There's no reason to pigeon-hole yourselves into the exploitative systems that have built up around professional athletics.
You don't have to be an "athlete". You can be an "entertainer" or a "performer". This is a world with rock stars, actors, idols, and "personalities". There's honestly more negative baggage associated with "sport" as a term than prestige compared to most of those things. The only reason it sticks is because of convenience: because there are teams, players, and competitions, so it's closer in nature to a sport than other entertainment activities.
Quite a few League players obviously understand this. The entire reason they make so much money streaming is because they've figured out that what they actually are is entertainers, and that's a much more valuable thing than an athlete. An entertainer is a brand that builds value and can continue to have it long after their glory days are done; aside from a handful of Jordan-like success stories, most athletes are chewed up and spat out before they're even past their prime.
Don't aspire to be athletes. Aim higher. There's no reason to pigeon-hole yourselves into the exploitative systems that have built up around professional athletics.
Xal-Shoota
Member
I just can't believe these people are laughing at others for watching. Waiting 3 hours to watch someone run across a field a few times with a ball. If you distill football down to its bare essentials it sounds fucking stupid, just like any other game or activity. I can't believe that they can't make the tiny leap to imagine that watching a team of fantastical heroes blow shit up and do crazy moves onscreen is entertaining, especially compared to....watching a guy hit a ball into a hole over 3 hours.
Is it really THAT hard to imagine?
Is it really THAT hard to imagine?
I think Teknopathetic's post on the matter need more love.
And considering that gamers from the getgo considered making that "dumb" term to denote their activity they're literally broadcasting their thoughts on the matter.
It's like an argument on why something that is clearly labelled not a sport shouldn't be called a sport.
That kind of argument can't be won to begin with.
It's actually absurd to even try.
And considering that gamers from the getgo considered making that "dumb" term to denote their activity they're literally broadcasting their thoughts on the matter.
It's like an argument on why something that is clearly labelled not a sport shouldn't be called a sport.
That kind of argument can't be won to begin with.
It's actually absurd to even try.
Agreed.
The term esports implies that they are different from "normal" sports, which they are.
That doesn't mean that competitive gaming is easy, or doesn't require a lot of dedication.
Of course they're wrong to mock and laugh. But it's not a surprise either they represent an opposing view and see the use of the term sports as being exclusively limited to physical activities.
Of course it would be equally wrong to mock back and act all offended. But it's not a surprise to see many posts here (probably elsewhere) doing that as a reactionary response that's just as dumb - special callout to the posts on Archery and F1 being easy or hardly sports, nice way to look like anyone should listen to you spouting arrant nonsense like that.
The question is whether sports should remain terminology for physical activity or not and whether physically interacting with a game is any different from physically interacting with snooker balls?
Society will determine this over time - maybe playing a MOBA professionally will be seen as a sport eventually or maybe it won't. Maybe calling it eSports will ultimately be deemed silly and there will be different terminology to describe it.
But let's not be jerks ourselves spouting reactionary rubbish. Just looks stupid and doesn't help one iota.
Of course it would be equally wrong to mock back and act all offended. But it's not a surprise to see many posts here (probably elsewhere) doing that as a reactionary response that's just as dumb - special callout to the posts on Archery and F1 being easy or hardly sports, nice way to look like anyone should listen to you spouting arrant nonsense like that.
The question is whether sports should remain terminology for physical activity or not and whether physically interacting with a game is any different from physically interacting with snooker balls?
Society will determine this over time - maybe playing a MOBA professionally will be seen as a sport eventually or maybe it won't. Maybe calling it eSports will ultimately be deemed silly and there will be different terminology to describe it.
But let's not be jerks ourselves spouting reactionary rubbish. Just looks stupid and doesn't help one iota.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
I understand you did not grow up with "video games" i understand you just do not "get it" that is fair enough you have no argument from me.
But to sit there and judge and overall MOCK people who are into this, that makes you nothing more than "childish" and to a degree "bullys"
Go back to your caves you fucking old bastards
i'm not into eSports i have no interest in it, but i love matches and can imagine it is exactly the same kinda thing just with a prize at the end, i love how intense a game gets when taken seriously, but i could not watch it.
But i would not slate people who do, if anything i have the upmost respect for them to stand by what they love when scum like this spit in there face.
But to sit there and judge and overall MOCK people who are into this, that makes you nothing more than "childish" and to a degree "bullys"
Go back to your caves you fucking old bastards
i'm not into eSports i have no interest in it, but i love matches and can imagine it is exactly the same kinda thing just with a prize at the end, i love how intense a game gets when taken seriously, but i could not watch it.
But i would not slate people who do, if anything i have the upmost respect for them to stand by what they love when scum like this spit in there face.
Pristine_Condition
Member
These are the same types of mainstream media hacks that you could have seen decrying MMA a decade ago as not a sport because it was too physical. "Oh, it's not a real sport...it's HUMAN cock Fighting!!!"
Now, the same old hacks are trying to say eSports can't be sports because they aren't physical enough.
Pretty obvious why they hate it so much. Just a bunch of people trying to protect their own well-worn turf. Anything new needs to be held down, because no network is going to pay their clueless asses to commentate on these new things that they don't know about.
Now, the same old hacks are trying to say eSports can't be sports because they aren't physical enough.
Pretty obvious why they hate it so much. Just a bunch of people trying to protect their own well-worn turf. Anything new needs to be held down, because no network is going to pay their clueless asses to commentate on these new things that they don't know about.
Chess is not a sport and you can hear me laugh about it. Physicality is part of the definition of a sport. Competitive laser tag is a sport by definition, as you are competing against someone else physically with a set of rules.
At this rate any word can define anything and everything. Your definition of sports is incomplete. Here is the correct definition, along a bunch of others:
You can debate all you want about the level of athleticism needed for professional gaming, or the physical activity involved. But sports need physical activity, you can't get around that.
archangelmorph
Gold Member
So darts isn't a sport?
Clay pidgeon shooting isn't a sport?
Bowls isn't a sport?
If Table Tennis can be classified as a sport then many games, played competitively with a well defined rule set can be too.
Otherwise you're differentiating based on some arbitrary threshold of how much one moves one's limbs/articulators to decide whether the Physicality aspect is honoured or not.
QuikZilver
Member
So playing tic tac toe is a sport?