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HBO's 'Real Sports' panel laughs at eSports segment

this video is hilarious to me, it has all the stereotypes of both the pro-esports side and the oblivious old codger sides in one small, succinct package

i really hate that the conversation among them is about whether this is sports instead of about how thousands of people filled up staples and millions watched from home and so on.

but how can that not be the conversation when video games are specifically marketed as sports? here we are on a video game forum, big video game heads all of us, and even we can't escape that stupid ass argument.

that argument sucks. i'm tired of it! i don't think video games are a sport, and i don't want them to be. i like video games AS VIDEO GAMES. i'm proud to have played video games competitively in tournaments, i'm proud to be a commentator at video game tournaments. i also played and watch sports. i am 100% ok with the fact that they are different. i don't want to deny my video gamer-ness, i want to embrace it! i don't want to look for outside legitimacy through appeals to sports-ness, i want to build the legitimacy of video games as video games! i don't need or want to obfuscate the two.

there are so many good things to talk about in competitive gaming, but instead both gamers and non gamers waste time on ridiculous word battles. that sucks.

i'm seriously so tired of this argument. but that's the goal of words like "esports" in the first place, to force an argument. mission fn accomplished i guess
 
To everyone who's saying that video games can't be sports because they don't fit the definition, I think you're forgetting that words can evolve over time. Definitions and accepted use can change, why is "sport" an exception? Language isn't set in stone.

When we listen to Deck the Halls and hear "Don we now our gay apparel", I highly doubt the guy who wrote the song meant for that line to mean "Look at our homosexual clothes".

If millions of people consider esports to fit into their definition of "sport", who are you to say they're wrong?



I don't think the biggest hindrance to esports is mainstream acceptance that they are in fact sports, I think it's sustainability. Not only for the games, but for teams. With mainstream sports, you have teams that have been around for decades and aren't going anywhere soon, but in the few years that League's been popular we've had teams that have come and go or are sitting in limbo. Take AAA for example, 2nd place in the season 1 championship, but they aren't doing anything anymore. What's the point in rooting for a team and getting rivalries going if I'm not sure if that team is going to exist in a year or two?
 
guldakot said:
The biggest bar facing esports from becoming legitimate in the long run is the fact that the competition doesn't remain the same and follow the same rules year in and year out.

If you look at the big 4 american sports, although there are slight rule changes here and there, in essence the game that is played today is pretty much the same game that was played 20 years ago, and will be the same game essentially in 20 years.

If you look at the FGC, even games in the same franchise can be completely different then those in the past. SF3 vs SF4 are vastly different animals. Refreshes of the same game (MvC3 vs UMvC3) play very differently as well. Unless you have consistency for long periods of time, competition can never really take root beyond a small but fluid community.

Take Football for instance (world not american) the kid playing a pug in Lisbon, is playing the same game that Pele did. Will league of legends have the same ruleset, and essentially be the same game 20 years from now? The closest thing we have to a legitimate legacy esport at this point is Starcraft 2, because it is so similar to the original (although there are obvious differences).

TLDR
Esports won't be legitimate until they can actually form a legacy, and to do that you need consistency in gametype, rules, etc.
Click to expand...

Though I see what you are saying E-Sports in South Korea are all ready very legitimate. These new esports games are being made to be self sustainable and long term. 5-10 years is a pretty good run till a new successor brings the hype back again. Before these games happened by accident, now developers are making games with this in mind and the longevity shouldn't be a problem.
 
Watching pros play fighting games, it seemed to me the closest analog was playing a musical instrument instead of any sport. Like a piano or something. There's a rhythm to it. Cept instead of sounds its digital movement. Competitive improv.
 
I guess if esport should be considered real sports it will need to have a universal acceptance, the same goes to consider e-gamers athletes.

However saying that there is close to no physical action on e-sports Is not knowing too much on the matter, MLG Halo is a good example of this, at the PRO level it requieres a set of skills that can only be attained trough practice/training: fast reflexes, good hand eye cordination, and quick decision making. Not to mention that good teamwork and comunication were important as well. And even after this not everybody that does it reach these PRO levels (just like any Athlete in Any Sport)

And just like any real sports over time the player abbilities decay due to age, a 18 year old will have better reflexes than an 50 year old, not to mention, just like sports, some players will use Meds to enhance their play (like aderall)
 
voodoopanda said:
Watching pros play fighting games, it seemed to me the closet analog was playing a musical instrument instead of any sport. Like a piano or something. There's a rhythm to it. Cept instead of sounds its digital movement. Competitive improv.
Click to expand...

it's just 21st century speed chess really
 
Esports is like competitive poker. They are skill based games. ESPN runs the Poker World Championships. Its considered a sport as should any skill based competitive game including ESports.
 
They're out of touch. Not surprised.

The only part of that video that really irked me was the "and for nerds everywhere, it's an affirmation" part. "Nerds" sounded really pejorative there. <_<
 
I wish competitive gaming would stop trying to fit the sports moniker. I have been a fan and have followed it since before the CPL. It doesn't need to be branded as a sport or have it's players being called "Athletes". It is it's own entity with it's own set of skills and challenges. This argument is dumb because aside from the competitive aspect these two worlds are very different and so are it's hardcore fans. They will never be one and the same as a whole.

Stop trying to make it a sport and giving a shit what jocks think. It's already legitimate and it's awesome.
 
voodoopanda said:
Watching pros play fighting games, it seemed to me the closest analog was playing a musical instrument instead of any sport. Like a piano or something. There's a rhythm to it. Cept instead of sounds its digital movement. Competitive improv.
Click to expand...

You nailed it. Pro gamers are not athletes, they are actually virtuosos!!!1
 
CountAntonius said:
Though I see what you are saying E-Sports in South Korea are all ready very legitimate. These new esports games are being made to be self sustainable and long term. 5-10 years is a pretty good run till a new successor brings the hype back again. Before these games happened by accident, now developers are making games with this in mind and the longevity shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

Thats the direction we need to move in, refresh the graphics, but the gameplay needs to remain essentially the same.

Whats going to be interesting is as Mobas grow larger and larger, will the community agree on a unified playstyle between LoL and Dota2, or will we have the 2 styles going head to head, with one falling apart, or will they be able to thrive separately.

Or will we have a unified Moba league, all the MLB, with Al (LoL) and NL(Dota 2) rules? The future of esports is indeed gonna be something to watch :)
 
Nymphae said:
Sports are games too, why do we need two classifications at all? Why aren't they all just "competitive games"?
Click to expand...
They are all competitive games. We separate them because we use classifications to organize genres of things so we don't have to keep specifying ourselves.

Why don't we just call it all rock music? Because there are different types of rock music that have different properties, even if there are common properties throughout them all.

Why don't we just call it all movies?
Because there are also different kinds of movies that have different properties even if there are common properties throughout them all.

You're asking why we classify things, and the answer is that it's supposed to make it easier to be specific about what you're saying when you're able to narrow down what you're trying to express.

Without classifications conversations would be far more long winded. Instead of simply saying "I don't like slasher movies." You'd have to say something like "I don't like the movies where serial killers kill a bunch of teenagers". I mean, even that in itself is a long winded classification of sorts.
 
guldakot said:
Thats the direction we need to move in, refresh the graphics, but the gameplay needs to remain essentially the same.

Whats going to be interesting is as Mobas grow larger and larger, will the community agree on a unified playstyle between LoL and Dota2, or will we have the 2 styles going head to head, with one falling apart, or will they be able to thrive separately.

Or will we have a unified Moba league, all the MLB, with Al (LoL) and NL(Dota 2) rules? The future of esports is indeed gonna be something to watch :)
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure if you even suggest league rules and game system to anyone even remotely versed in Dota 2 they would try and light you on fire. I'm not trying to belittle League, I don't like it but to all that do more power to them. The two games are different and attract different players. They are going to stay that way for the exact reasons why they like one or the other.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
They are all competitive games. We separate them because we use classifications to organize genres of things so we don't have to keep specifying ourselves.
Click to expand...

I'm not getting your point here. I know why we have different names for different things :/ The argument here is why competitive games in a non-physical format can't be considered sports.

You said it yourself, they are all competitive games. So why do you need to further differentiate Baseball from Street Fighter? They are both competitive games, with unique names that describe what is happening. I just don't see why one can be a sport while the other can't, unless your only differentiating factor is that one requires a certain (but unspecified) level of physical activity, in which case, you're correct, but I don't personally agree with that definition so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Hollywood Duo said:
By definition sports require physical exertion. I think you have to use the word game or gaming in the title.
Click to expand...

As another poster said earlier, words and definitions change over time. I feel like that is going to become an outdated criteria in the near future. And I keep bringing this up because I think it's relevant, how much physical exertion is required to get the label "sport"? Fighting game players are exerting themselves physically when controlling a fighting stick, but apparently this physical exertion does not count.
 
Nymphae said:
I'm not getting your point here. I know why we have different names for different things :/ The argument here is why competitive games in a non-physical format can't be considered sports.

You said it yourself, they are all competitive games. So why do you need to further differentiate Baseball from Street Fighter? They are both competitive games, with unique names that describe what is happening. I just don't see why one can be a sport while the other can't, unless your only differentiating factor is that one requires a certain (but unspecified) level of physical activity, in which case, you're correct, but I don't personally agree with that definition so we'll have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...


Because farting and taking a dump are two different things. They both require my ass and probably passing gas, but they are both different.
 
haZethew0rld said:
Why do I have a feeling that those people calling e-sport a real sport have never played any sports for a team or just recreationally.
Click to expand...
I've played tennis and hockey for years and my friend (who is also rather involved in esports) was a AAA baseball and basketball player.

This is just more jocks versus nerds bullshit.
 
Nymphae said:
I'm not getting your point here. I know why we have different names for different things :/ The argument here is why competitive games in a non-physical format can't be considered sports.

You said it yourself, they are all competitive games. So why do you need to further differentiate Baseball from Street Fighter? They are both competitive games, with unique names that describe what is happening. I just don't see why one can be a sport while the other can't, unless your only differentiating factor is that one requires a certain (but unspecified) level of physical activity, in which case, you're correct, but I don't personally agree with that definition so we'll have to agree to disagree.



As another poster said earlier, words and definitions change over time. I feel like that is going to become an outdated criteria in the near future. And I keep bringing this up because I think it's relevant, how much physical exertion is required to get the label "sport"? Fighting game players are exerting themselves physically when controlling a fighting stick, but apparently this physical exertion does not count.
Click to expand...
Because the entire reason we use the word sport is to differentiate the athletic games from the non athletic games. Letting in a bunch of games that's results aren't based in physical prowess defeats the purpose of having the word in the first place.

There is no need to evolve the word sport because we already have a word that describes everything from baseball to Street Fighter, the word is games.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
It's really more of a language argument.
Click to expand...
Chess. Birdge.

UltraDavid said:
this video is hilarious to me, it has all the stereotypes of both the pro-esports side and the oblivious old codger sides in one small, succinct package

i really hate that the conversation among them is about whether this is sports instead of about how thousands of people filled up staples and millions watched from home and so on.

but how can that not be the conversation when video games are specifically marketed as sports? here we are on a video game forum, big video game heads all of us, and even we can't escape that stupid ass argument.

that argument sucks. i'm tired of it! i don't think video games are a sport, and i don't want them to be. i like video games AS VIDEO GAMES. i'm proud to have played video games competitively in tournaments, i'm proud to be a commentator at video game tournaments. i also played and watch sports. i am 100% ok with the fact that they are different. i don't want to deny my video gamer-ness, i want to embrace it! i don't want to look for outside legitimacy through appeals to sports-ness, i want to build the legitimacy of video games as video games! i don't need or want to obfuscate the two.

there are so many good things to talk about in competitive gaming, but instead both gamers and non gamers waste time on ridiculous word battles. that sucks.

i'm seriously so tired of this argument. but that's the goal of words like "esports" in the first place, to force an argument. mission fn accomplished i guess
Click to expand...
The argument over whether or not it's a sport is just a front and simply a way for those who don't want to see videogames being played competitively -- and especially don't want it to be taken seriously -- to diminish and insult those who would take the opposite stance. These are not the same people who lost the war on whether or not Chess is a sport a long time ago and are just simply not philosophers pondering the use of the word "sport"; they are adult bullies who are using the daemon of public opinion to engage a part of themselves deemed socially unacceptable at the age of twelve.

I agree, however, that the argument itself really isn't relevant to the goals of the vague competitive videogaming community (if you can even it call it that) as a whole. Speaking for myself, I am only concerned with the end of the pointless and wholly ignorant mush that the activity gets from both the gaming and the non-gaming community.

Frankly, that there are still people on NeoGAF that think competitive videogame playing is a joke is embarrassing.
 
Regardless if esport is really a sport, the way they discussed it was extremely unprofessional and disrespectful. Just because it isn't a physically demanding activity, it still requires a level of skill and has a competitive field. I'm sorry but fuck those guys. I bet they couldn't even install the game. I don't even watch or play League/Dota.
 
Fugu said:
The argument over whether or not it's a sport is just a front and simply a way for those who don't want to see videogames being played competitively -- and especially don't want it to be taken seriously -- to diminish and insult those who would take the opposite stance. These are not the same people who lost the war on whether or not Chess is a sport a long time ago and are just simply not philosophers pondering the use of the word "sport"; they are adult bullies who are using the daemon of public opinion to engage a part of themselves deemed socially unacceptable at the age of twelve.

I agree, however, that the argument itself really isn't relevant to the goals of the vague competitive videogaming community (if you can even it call it that) as a whole. Speaking for myself, I am only concerned with the end of the pointless and wholly ignorant mush that the activity gets from both the gaming and the non-gaming community.

Frankly, that there are still people on NeoGAF that think competitive videogame playing is a joke is embarrassing.
Click to expand...
That might be true for some people. But I love both sports and competitive gaming. You're assuming that just because some people use a reasoning for something, that everyone who also holds their opinion holds it for the same reasoning. Which is completely reductive and frankly ignorant if you've read the thread.

If you're going to debate, debate what I'm saying, and not what you're assuming I'm saying.
 
daveb234 said:
Regardless if esport is really a sport, the way they discussed it was extremely unprofessional and disrespectful. Just because it isn't a physically demanding activity, it still requires a level of skill and has a competitive field. I'm sorry but fuck those guys. I bet they couldn't even install the game. I don't even watch or play League/Dota.
Click to expand...

They think the viewers are watching someone play monopoly and think they are crazy for watching something so simple when they have not tried or played these games to understand what it takes. They need to understand and try before talking BS about the viewers and players. American football is dumb why do people watch it just a bunch of people running into each other nothing going on but if you try to understand the sport you will see there is a lot going on and a lot of skill.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
That might be true for some people. But I love both sports and competitive gaming. You're assuming that just because some people use a reasoning for something, that everyone who also holds their opinion holds it for the same reasoning. Which is completely reductive and frankly ignorant if you've read the thread.

If you're going to debate, debate what I'm saying, and not what you're assuming I'm saying.
Click to expand...
The people actually having the debate on what the word "sport" means without a negative opinion on so-called esports need to do some research. The Olympics is about as authoritative as we're going to get on this issue and they've declared in favor of bridge -- a game played mostly by the elderly -- being considered a sport.

The opinion that sports have to involve a physical, laborious element to them may hold popular weight but does not sway the most relevant governing body on the definition. The reason for this is that when tasked with actually distinguishing what is physically demanding and what isn't, the argument fails to distinguish between individual games. How can you argue that fighting game execution isn't demanding, or at least as demanding as playing bridge?
 
Fugu said:
The people actually having the debate on what the word "sport" means without a negative opinion on so-called esports need to do some research. The Olympics is about as authoritative as we're going to get on this issue and they've declared in favor of bridge -- a game played mostly by the elderly -- being considered a sport.

The opinion that sports have to involve a physical, laborious element to them may hold popular weight but does not sway the most relevant governing body on the definition. The reason for this is that when tasked with actually distinguishing what is physically demanding and what isn't, the argument fails to distinguish between individual games. How can you argue that fighting game execution isn't demanding, or at least as demanding as playing bridge?
Click to expand...

.
 
Fugu said:
The people actually having the debate on what the word "sport" means without a negative opinion on so-called esports need to do some research. The Olympics is about as authoritative as we're going to get on this issue and they've declared in favor of bridge -- a game played mostly by the elderly -- being considered a sport.

The opinion that sports have to involve a physical, laborious element to them may hold popular weight but does not sway the most relevant governing body on the definition. The reason for this is that when tasked with actually distinguishing what is physically demanding and what isn't, the argument fails to distinguish between individual games. How can you argue that fighting game execution isn't demanding, or at least as demanding as playing bridge?
Click to expand...
The most relevant governing body also tried to eliminate wrestling from the 2020 games. Just because the Olympics committee says something doesn't mean the definition of words change. The dictionary goes more in depth about how a sport has physical prowess, and when talking about the definition of a word I believe the dictionary is the most logical place to go.
 
Lulzwagon said:
Are people really comparing the physical exertion involved with using a fight stick to that of a pro NBA or NFL player?
Click to expand...

No, they're comparing it to other fringe/debatable sports like darts, chess, bridge, poker, bowling, riflery, archery, pool...etc
 
Zen_Arcade said:
The most relevant governing body also tried to eliminate wrestling from the 2020 games. Just because the Olympics committee says something doesn't mean the definition of words change. The dictionary goes more in depth about how a sport has physical prowess, and when talking about the definition of a word I believe the dictionary is the most logical place to go.
Click to expand...
The Olympics has a separate category for things that it classifies as sports that are not currently contested at the games themselves. Chess is in this category. So is Baseball.

Additionally, dictionaries are, unlike the Olympics, not tasked with actually enforcing the definition of a word and are therefore more concerned with conformity to popular trends (see "literally") over a technical, enforceable definition with clearly defined limits, which is what we're concerned with here.

Finally, the Oxford definition really doesn't lend much credence to your argument anyway:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sport said:
An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:
Click to expand...
I'm typing this as I play Quake 3 while others watch. I move my mouse to aim at my opponents and contort my hands in such a way that I may properly and effectively move through the game. If I were looking for a definition that would make Quake 3 sound like a bona fide sport, this is the definition I'd use.
 
Its not a sport. At all. Why is this 24 pages.



Want it to be a sport? Work to getting the definition changed. Move on.


Videogames are no more or less fun with the label anyway. Fuck.
 
emko said:
They need to understand and try before talking BS about the viewers and players. League of Legends is dumb why do people watch it just a bunch of polygons on a screen nothing going on but if you try to understand the game you will see there is a lot going on and a lot of skill.
Click to expand...

See what I did there? Don't be the same type of person you are lambasting. It weakens your argument and position.
 
UltraDavid said:
this video is hilarious to me, it has all the stereotypes of both the pro-esports side and the oblivious old codger sides in one small, succinct package

i really hate that the conversation among them is about whether this is sports instead of about how thousands of people filled up staples and millions watched from home and so on.

but how can that not be the conversation when video games are specifically marketed as sports? here we are on a video game forum, big video game heads all of us, and even we can't escape that stupid ass argument.

that argument sucks. i'm tired of it! i don't think video games are a sport, and i don't want them to be. i like video games AS VIDEO GAMES. i'm proud to have played video games competitively in tournaments, i'm proud to be a commentator at video game tournaments. i also played and watch sports. i am 100% ok with the fact that they are different. i don't want to deny my video gamer-ness, i want to embrace it! i don't want to look for outside legitimacy through appeals to sports-ness, i want to build the legitimacy of video games as video games! i don't need or want to obfuscate the two.

there are so many good things to talk about in competitive gaming, but instead both gamers and non gamers waste time on ridiculous word battles. that sucks.

i'm seriously so tired of this argument. but that's the goal of words like "esports" in the first place, to force an argument. mission fn accomplished i guess
Click to expand...

THANK YOU

I couldn't give any less of a fuck whether competitive video games was considered a sport or not. This is how I see it:

Poker has blown up and it watched nation wide on TV. FUCKING POKER. If Poker can get that huge and respected by a mass audience, I see no reason why games can't reach that level of respect/admiration. Is Poker a sport? Who gives a shit! It's popular and that's what matters.

I hope games can at least reach the level of poker someday (I think it can and will), and maybe even surpass it.
 
I couldn't care less whether or not it's really a sport. "E-sport" is a handy, if slightly hokey, shorthand to get the idea of competitive video game playing across.
 
Lulzwagon said:
Are people really comparing the physical exertion involved with using a fight stick to that of a pro NBA or NFL player?
Click to expand...
The amount of muscle required? Absolutely not. The amount of control? Maybe. We're not really in a position to evaluate that scientifically but I would argue that, given the size of the competitive pool of most big games these days and the consistency with which hard work reveals successful players, it's likely that the difference is not big and perhaps not even in favor of traditional sports.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
The most relevant governing body also tried to eliminate wrestling from the 2020 games. Just because the Olympics committee says something doesn't mean the definition of words change. The dictionary goes more in depth about how a sport has physical prowess, and when talking about the definition of a word I believe the dictionary is the most logical place to go.
Click to expand...

You keep repeating this as if it means anything. The IOC wasn't declaring that wrestling would no longer be considered a sport. They were just considering its removal from the 25 sport program along with field hockey, taekwondo and modern pentatholon.

With so many sports but limited slots, something has to be cut. This has absolutely no bearing on the conversation.
 
Fugu said:
The Olympics has a separate category for things that it classifies as sports that are not currently contested at the games themselves. Chess is in this category. So is Baseball.

Additionally, dictionaries are, unlike the Olympics, not tasked with actually enforcing the definition of a word and are therefore more concerned with conformity to popular trends (see "literally") over a technical, enforceable definition with clearly defined limits, which is what we're concerned with here.

Finally, the Oxford definition really doesn't lend much credence to your argument anyway:

I'm typing this as I play Quake 3 while others watch. I move my mouse to aim at my opponents and contort my hands in such a way that I may properly and effectively move through the game. If I were looking for a definition that would make Quake 3 sound like a bona fide sport, this is the definition I'd use.
Click to expand...
The challenge of Quake, or any video game people compete in, does not come from the physical exertion it takes to hit the buttons. It comes from the mind and the tactics you use to beat your opponent. The only physical thing that is used in video games is your hand-eye coordination.

The point of a video game is not to prove that you are physically more capable then your opponent, it's to prove you're mentally more capable.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
The challenge of Quake, or any video game people compete in, does not come from the physical exertion it takes to hit the buttons. It comes from the mind and the tactics you use to beat your opponent. The only physical thing that is used in video games is your hand-eye coordination.

The point of a video game is not to prove that you are physically more capable then your opponent, it's to prove you're mentally more capable.
Click to expand...
No, the challenge definitely comes from both. Good luck aiming if you can't move a mouse.

Also, bridge.

EDIT: To elaborate, I'm not sure if a sport exists where the object is simply to prove that you're more physically capable than your opponent. 1v1 tug-of-war, maybe? No, even that has a mental component. Your definition of a "sport" is more like "non-competitive object-displacement".
 
jem0208 said:
No, an athlete is someone who is proficient at an athletic sport or an athletic form or exercise. LoL is in no way athletic.
Click to expand...
This sums up my feelings on the topic. There are sports (chess, pool, e-sports, bowling) and then there are athletic sports (hockey, baseball, football, basketball, soccer), where only people participating in athletic sports are athletes.

I can understand why people push for e-sports to be recognized as sport, but I cannot understand why the participants need to be pushed as athletes.
 
UltraDavid said:
this video is hilarious to me, it has all the stereotypes of both the pro-esports side and the oblivious old codger sides in one small, succinct package

i really hate that the conversation among them is about whether this is sports instead of about how thousands of people filled up staples and millions watched from home and so on.

but how can that not be the conversation when video games are specifically marketed as sports? here we are on a video game forum, big video game heads all of us, and even we can't escape that stupid ass argument.

that argument sucks. i'm tired of it! i don't think video games are a sport, and i don't want them to be. i like video games AS VIDEO GAMES. i'm proud to have played video games competitively in tournaments, i'm proud to be a commentator at video game tournaments. i also played and watch sports. i am 100% ok with the fact that they are different. i don't want to deny my video gamer-ness, i want to embrace it! i don't want to look for outside legitimacy through appeals to sports-ness, i want to build the legitimacy of video games as video games! i don't need or want to obfuscate the two.

there are so many good things to talk about in competitive gaming, but instead both gamers and non gamers waste time on ridiculous word battles. that sucks.

i'm seriously so tired of this argument. but that's the goal of words like "esports" in the first place, to force an argument. mission fn accomplished i guess
Click to expand...

While I don't agree with their sentiments, arguments... or really anything they say, I understand why they would bring it up considering the show is called Real Sports with Bryant Gumble.
 
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