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HD discussion #18902471: CRT vs. LCD vs. Plasma

There's a real good chance I'll get a 50A10 by the end of this year. I'll be looking hard at this and the comparable offerings from Panny and Mits. Rainbows kill me. Let's see if these sets have any lag.

PC input: analog RGB (D-Sub 15-pin)

This set might have some Dreamcast love at windowboxed 960x720 (upscaled from 640x480p). Wonder if it'd look halfway decent.
 
I was so close dammit...but my PC motherboard is basically hooped so I guess I'm spending the money on a new PC setup instead. -_-;

Klee: any standout receivers to speak of lately? HDMI support possibly? Getting a smaller digital receiver this year sounds tempting, at least compared to my huge, high temperature Kenwood VR-509.
 
man that sony RPLCD has me hot! Altough I was at CC the other day and they had the 34" XBR960 for $1799. They also had a ton of HDTV monitors (no tuners, but I already have an HD cablebox) for dirt cheap.


edit:

crazymoogle - I don't know about your price range or anything, but I was talking to this guy that does hometheaters and you might want to look at this -

h580TXNR1K-o_apart.jpeg


its has removable cards in the back and you can basicaly configure it however you want :D

only problem is its $5000....

there are some HDMI switches coming out now, but still pretty pricey for a 2 input switch

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/hdmi-2x1-switch.htm

EXT-HD-241.jpg
 
:lol :lol :lol That is the single most insane receiver I've seen yet.

Sadly I'm in the low price range bracket - I spent CDN $500 on my Kenwood and I don't plan on spending even a dime past that in USD. Which is fine since my speaker setup isn't exactly expensive.

It's funny though, looking at the A10, the TV itself almost seems to be ready (HDMI for the PS3, DVI for the X360, component or vga for Rev). A slimeline receiver with two component ins (PS2/DVD) would basically have me set, although that would leave the problem of optical ins (unless there is some way to unify that through the TV optical out?)
 
thats one thing I don't get about HDMI... one cable for audio/video is nice and all.. but anyone with a decent system sends the video to the TV and the audio to a receiver.

I suppose they are asumming you have 5 grand to drop on an amp that does HDMI switching..

Also, I am not sure about the new Sony sets, but my old analog one has an audio pass thru so you can feed the audio out to a receiver.
 
Flo_Evans said:
thats one thing I don't get about HDMI... one cable for audio/video is nice and all.. but anyone with a decent system sends the video to the TV and the audio to a receiver.

I suppose they are asumming you have 5 grand to drop on an amp that does HDMI switching..

Also, I am not sure about the new Sony sets, but my old analog one has an audio pass thru so you can feed the audio out to a receiver.

Well, I think the idea is that supporting a handful of HDMI ports is going to be electrically simpler and cheaper than running massive port rigs as in the picture you posted. It should be a cheaper but I think the audio companies have just found a way to drag their heels. Again.

Now that I think of it my passthrough idea doesn't make much sense anyway. Only the HDMI port could use it. So I still need something capable of 3 optical ins, I guess.
 
I don't know if you guys have had a chance to check out the new JVC D-ILA sets, but you owe yourself the opportunity to see it. The current D-ILA looks decent, but man oh man did the new model look *fantastic*. The colors were great and the black level looked much better. I want to see how the new Sony RPTV LCD sets stack up, but right now I would say the new JVC D-ILA set is the best I've seen out there.
 
How many watts does your average HDTV use. I cant find a rating on my 50 inch dlp and I was thinking about getting a UPS so if the power goes out it wont damage the bulb.
 
Mrbob said:
I don't know if you guys have had a chance to check out the new JVC D-ILA sets, but you owe yourself the opportunity to see it. The current D-ILA looks decent, but man oh man did the new model look *fantastic*. The colors were great and the black level looked much better. I want to see how the new Sony RPTV LCD sets stack up, but right now I would say the new JVC D-ILA set is the best I've seen out there.


Behold, the power of LCOS...

Mr Bob...did I tell ya or did I tell ya :D

Klee: any standout receivers to speak of lately? HDMI support possibly? Getting a smaller digital receiver this year sounds tempting, at least compared to my huge, high temperature Kenwood VR-509.


Crazy Moogle, if you have a budget around 500 USD, you might want to look at the JVC RX-702


Digital Amps

One hundred and Fifty watts per channel (7 amplified channels)

Wireless USB input

HDMI Switching (two inputs, one output)

Video up-conversion from Composite to Component/S-Video/HDMI

Yours for $550

If that is too expensive for you, it might be good to check out the RX-402B, which is cheaper that the 702 and also has 2 in/1 out HDMI but has 110Watts per channel (7 amplified channels) a wired USB input and some other detail changes....here is the press release of the entire RX-x02B line:

http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=437&pageID=2&CategoryID=1


eCost.com is selling the RX-402B for about three hundred and fifty bucks, but if you don't trust them, you can pay about 20 bucks more for either reciever at J and R who (along with One Call.com) are the most trustworthy online retailers on the net:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4026168

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4026169


Happy hunting :)

Flo_Evans said:
thats one thing I don't get about HDMI... one cable for audio/video is nice and all.. but anyone with a decent system sends the video to the TV and the audio to a receiver.


Flo, the main reason many people dont use recievers/pre pros as video switchers is because the video cables are analog and *can* introduce artifacts if a direct connection is not used...

HDMI video doesnt have this problem because it is a digital cable and the video signal can go through several different connections and still retain the same quality because it is a pure digital path....

In fact, HDMI-passed digital video signals either work or they dont work.....there is no video signal degradation....

Hope this helps :)
 
Mrbob said:
I don't know if you guys have had a chance to check out the new JVC D-ILA sets, but you owe yourself the opportunity to see it. The current D-ILA looks decent, but man oh man did the new model look *fantastic*. The colors were great and the black level looked much better. I want to see how the new Sony RPTV LCD sets stack up, but right now I would say the new JVC D-ILA set is the best I've seen out there.

What's the model number (and screen size) of the new JVC D-ILA? I'll look for it next time i'm in an electronics store. I'm also interested in the Sony 42" A10.
 
I can answer that one....

It is the HD-xxx86 line..

The ones that end in 786 are the Black HD-DILAs and the ones that end in 886 are the Silver HD-DILAs....like so:

HD-52G886 (52 inch 2006 model DILA with a Silver bezel)

HD-52G786 (52 inch 2006 model DILA with a Black bezel)

HD-56G886 (56 inch 2006 model DILA with a Silver bezel)

HD-56G786 (56 inch 2006 model DILA with a Black bezel)

HD-70G886 (70 inch 2006 model DILA with a Silver bezel)

HD-70G786 (70 inch 2006 model DILA with a Black bezel)


Then of course you have the "Z" 786/886 twins which are just like the others except they are 61 inch diagonal and have a Z instead of a G in the model name (this is not supposed to make any sense, BTW)

HD-61Z886 (61 inch 2006 model DILA with a Silver bezel)

HD-61Z786 (61 inch 2006 model DILA with a Black bezel)

In the fall we will have the much anticipated HD-xxFH96 line which use 3 1080p LCOS chips, just like the Sony SXRDs....they will come in three sizes (HD-56FH96, HD-61FH96 and HD-70FH96) and will all have black bezels, like this here HD-70FH96:

JVCHD70FH96_01_300.gif
 
Kleegamefan said:
HD-70G786 (70 inch 2006 model DILA with a Black bezel)
Klee, I don't think this set exists. I am looking to purchase the 70G886 this fall...I wanted it in black but the 70G786 isn't anywhere I can find it. All press releases I've seen show only silver bezel in the 70"...I'd love to be proven wrong. :)
 
Can anyone tell me about the Toshiba? I'm currently looking at the 46HMX85, which is the cinema series of the 46 HM84(I think?)

Can somone tell me about the difference between the two? I can't find the 46HMX85 anywhere on the net. But its for sale in Future shop.
 
Kleegamefan said:
Supposedly, you can buy the HD-70G886 from Abes of Maine for under $4000

http://www.abesofmaine.com/viewproduct.asp?id=jvhd70g886&l=Froogle


If you do a google search for this TV you will see a large listing retailers offering it for a variety of prices....
I think you misunderstood me. I don't think the 70G786 (with black bezel) exists. I've seen the 70G886 (silver bezel) in showrooms. I looked a bit cause I really, really wanted a black bezel...

And BTW, it's very, very nice...surprising for a 70" 720p set.
 
Those LCOS sets are really nice, I tell ya...

I am really excited about the new generation LCOS TV sets (non-Qualia SXRD, LG, JVC, Hitachi)

They are really better overall than LCDs and DLPs in my view....a great technology that just needed some more development.....we are finnally getting LCOS products that are more refined....
 
I know I kinda asked this before in another thread, but how is ordering HDTVs through the internet?

From what I can tell:

Pro:
-Save about $400 or more after no taxes and usually cheaper price than local stores.

Con:
-Can't see the TV in person before buying. Can't check for Geometry issues.
-If set breaks quickly or has something wrong with it, shipping it back would be insanely difficult and getting any help could be tough.

So it seems like the best bet is just buying a TV at the local Best Buy/Circuit City since if anything goes wrong the store is nearby for dealing with returns/exchanges. But then $400 or so is a lot of money :( Heck that could be my X360 launch funds right there :(

What should I do? I'm looking at one of the 200 pound CRTs at the moment.
 
Bebpo said:
I know I kinda asked this before in another thread, but how is ordering HDTVs through the internet?

From what I can tell:

Pro:
-Save about $400 or more after no taxes and usually cheaper price than local stores.

Con:
-Can't see the TV in person before buying. Can't check for Geometry issues.
-If set breaks quickly or has something wrong with it, shipping it back would be insanely difficult and getting any help could be tough.

So it seems like the best bet is just buying a TV at the local Best Buy/Circuit City since if anything goes wrong the store is nearby for dealing with returns/exchanges. But then $400 or so is a lot of money :( Heck that could be my X360 launch funds right there :(

What should I do? I'm looking at one of the 200 pound CRTs at the moment.


Even if you go to a local store, you'll most likely still need it delivered. and it'll be in a closed box. So online isn't a big deal, just make sure they have a wallet-friendly returns policy, and check upfront what you can return it for (eg dead pixels on LCD/DLP)

Or find a local store that will price match the internet.
 
D-ILA is nice and all but I may need to open a few veins just to afford a 2K 3LCD set. Anything more expensive is totally out of the question.

Kleegamefan said:
Crazy Moogle, if you have a budget around 500 USD, you might want to look at the JVC RX-702

How is JVC these days? I'm guessing their rep is better than, say, ten years ago? (I guess I'm also wondering if there is any advantage to matching brand when it comes to the TV and receiver).

The 402B initially seems like the better deal...but it only has ONE optical in. That's automatic failure in my book. Hell, my Kenwood has more than that. The 702B is a bit overpowered for my taste (I don't need 150W/channel or wireless USB) but 3 optical, two hdmi, and two component is music to my ears. I could really, really use the up-conversion right now too.

Getting a new TV sounds more expensive all the time when I start thinking about the receiver, stand, and warranty to go with it...
 
Kleegamefan said:
Flo, the main reason many people dont use recievers/pre pros as video switchers is because the video cables are analog and *can* introduce artifacts if a direct connection is not used...

HDMI video doesnt have this problem because it is a digital cable and the video signal can go through several different connections and still retain the same quality because it is a pure digital path....

In fact, HDMI-passed digital video signals either work or they dont work.....there is no video signal degradation....

Hope this helps :)

ah makes sense, nice heads up on the $500 HDMI reciever too^^ All the ones I had seen where $3000+
 
First major 50A10 impressions pour in:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=564500

Note: The KDF-E50A10 was setup in Sears on the showfloor, with moderate lighting conditions and receiving an HD signal.

First, I would like to point out the set looks gorgeous, externally. The thin black bezel around the screen makes the picture look larger than 50" and the silver speakers on the bottom add style, while not going too elegant.

As for the picture quality, it was definitely an improvement over the WE655 from 2004. The first thing I noticed was that black levels have significantly improved, although not as good as a direct view CRT. Most importantly, I was happy to see that black hues actually looked black rather than navy blue. Finally, black levels are acceptable on 3LCD rear projection technology, and are on par with DLP, if not better. This is not an exaggeration -- I'm being completely honest. Overall, contrast is quite good. I can't really complain in this area, other than the fact that it's not as good as CRT. I would say the black levels are on par with plasma. What was very impressive was that full black screen looked totally black, with absolutely no light leakage to be found. I couldn't believe it. I also went into the menu and played around with the iris. On a scale of 0 - 5, the default setting is 2, which is just right. If you move it toward zero, the screen dims, whereas moving the notch toward 5, the screen brightens up and causes blacks to look horrible. Adjusting the iris doesn't technically make black blacker, but it rather adjusts the light output. It is preferable to leave it at 2, which creates the best black level that the set is capable of. I'm not sure if there is an auto iris function.

Thankfully, the screen door effect was far less bothersome than last year's model. I was viewing this set from about 10 feet away, and SDE is a non-issue at that distance. Moreover, the silk screen effect was very minimal in the A10, finally making it a non-issue in 3LCD technology. Sure, SDE and SSE existed, but you really have to focus on it to see it. It's not an obstruction to normal viewing as it was on the WE655.

Another notable quality is the brightness uniformity. Whether the screen was totally black, white, or full of imagery, light was evenly dispersed among the screen. This, I believe, is an improvement over the WE655 as well.

Colors were vibrant, though I'm not sure I would call them lifelike. The CRT sets had true-to-life hues, while the 3LCD seemed to be slightly on the cool side of hues. For example, there was a man wearing a red shirt, and it had an orange tint to it on the 3LCD, while it looked realistically red on the CRT direct view set. Compared to the DLP right next to it (Toshiba), however, colors looked more natural. DLP had a severe orange/green tinge to the overall picture.

The A10 does a fantastic job at handling fast motion. I saw sports scenes, with baseball players throwing balls, cars speeding on a raceway, a first person view zooming through a highway, and there was absolutely no motion smearing. Perhaps it was extant, but it's virtually a non-issue. I was very happy to realize this, since I am looking for an HDTV for extensive video game use. I did see a red logo slide across full black screen, and it looked blurry, but I think that may be attributable to frame rate, rather than the LCD pixels themselves. Other than that, motion was essentially on par with a CRT.

Viewing angle is a non-issue as well, especially on the horizontal axis. Even at 170 degrees, you can easily make out the entire picture. Vertically, if you view the screen from about a 45 degree angle below the screen, you can still make out the entire picture, although the top part of the screen will fade somewhat.

Pixellation (or posterization) was not a problem on this set either. I realized that CRTs can suffer from this problem, too, but it's a rare occurence. This type of artifacting usually occurs on plasmas.

After about a half hour of critical viewing of the A10, I can honestly say that Sony is offering a great picture for a great price. 3LCD rear projection is coming quite close to the point where it can be compared to CRT direct view. The differences are minimal than ever now. Response time is on par, and contrast is in between that of the WE655 and a Sony CRT. This is certainly a significant leap in performance in LCD projection technology. In fact, LCD RPTV is even better than direct view LCD, which had horrendous smearing and no better black levels. The KDF-E50A10 is a winner in it's arena, and should definitely give DLP a run for its money.

Sounds hot! :D I can't wait to see this! It is coming down to the 52" JVC LcoS and this 50" Sony 3LCD set. The way Sony is refining their LCD sets is making me lean towards the 50A10!
 
Ristamar said:
Are LCOS sets vulnerable to the same lag issues as DLP when displaying 480i?


no




Yeah, bob, the new Sony LCDs do sound HAWT.....and they are cheap for what you get..

Keep in mind, though, the Sony SXRD (LCOS) should start shipping in Sept. and will probably have some of the best video quality money can buy....very expensive, though...
 
Kleegamefan said:
Ristamar said:
Are LCOS sets vulnerable to the same lag issues as DLP when displaying 480i?
no

Are you sure? I was under the impression that the "lag" issue when displaying 480i was due to the internal scaler that was scaling the image to the native resolution of the set. LCoS sets certainly have to have all data scaled to their native resolution, which does introduce the issue of "lag" when scaling the image, no?
 
As far a game playing goes, some DLPs have problems with lag when playing video games......in theory, it can be an issue with all fixed pixel displays (LCD, Plasma, DLP or LCOS) but the DLP gamers are the ones who complain the most

Samsung DLPs in particular get the bad reputation, and the brand new 1080p Samsung DLPs are really getting ragged on now. This doesn't surprise me as every practical format (480p, 480i, 720p, 1080i) gets deinterlaced and/or scaled by the Samsung.

Keep in mind, though, the Sony SXRD (LCOS) should start shipping in Sept.
1080p again gives me pause when we're entering a generation that looks to be optimized for 720p.

If PS3 comes out and supports 1080p at their best framerate for all games and the system supports 60hz 1080p and you not buying a 360, then a 1080p set (but only with true HDMI 1.2 support) starts to look more practical.

That's a lot of 'ands' that I don't trust. And frankly, I wouldn't buy a set today based on what I don't know.

Besides, the 360 looks essential, and I wouldn't leave it out of the equation.

And what about the Revolution and any older systems like Dreamcast and Saturn that I might want to hook up....
 
Kutaragi specifically said SCEI wanted to make the PS3 "future proof" so they went all the way with 1080p support...

Remember, SCEI doesn't only support their consoles for 3-4 years like Microsoft....PS3 must remain viable through 2010 and beyond...
 
Kleegamefan said:
Kutaragi specifically said SCEI wanted to make the PS3 "future proof" so they went all the way with 1080p support...

Remember, SCEI doesn't only support their consoles for 3-4 years like Microsoft....PS3 must remain viable through 2010 and beyond...


Even so, 720P is going to be the standard for every game (I don't consider Revolution on the same level). You can get a 720P set now and then a 1080P set 3 or 4 years down the road when prices drop and technology improves.
 
So what's the absolute best set I can get for $1,000? It doesn't matter what type it is, but it's just got to be the best possible thing I can get for $1000
 
Nobody is a bigger fan of Field Emmission Displays than me...

BTW, pilot production of SEDs starts next month in Japan...I do not know if they plan on selling any of these TVs, though...
 
Mrbob said:
First major 50A10 impressions pour in:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=564500

Sounds hot! :D I can't wait to see this! It is coming down to the 52" JVC LcoS and this 50" Sony 3LCD set. The way Sony is refining their LCD sets is making me lean towards the 50A10!


I'm definitely leaning towards the 50A10. Sounds like a major improvement on Sony's part and the price is right. You can get it at Crutchfield right now, I think it should be hitting stores like CC and best buy when they sell off their old stock
 
Kleegamefan said:
Nobody is a bigger fan of Field Emmission Displays than me...

BTW, pilot production of SEDs starts next month in Japan...I do not know if they plan on selling any of these TVs, though...
I heard about this just recently and got my hopes up for future displays again. There may be an end to these dark ages of LCDs and Plasmas... Are there any competing companies with similar FED technology coming up?
 
Fatghost28 said:
KLEE:

What's the difference in display (if any) between this TV

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/se...&productId=173119&navigationPath=n32050n32052

KD34XS955_lg.jpg



and this TV?

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/se...&productId=173100&navigationPath=n32050n32052

KV34HS420_lg.jpg


Is it worth spending the extra cash for the Hi-Scan?

The top one (XS955) has the Superfine Pitch CRT (1400x900 capable) while the HS420 on the bottom is probably more like 960x540. Both are classified as "Hi-Scan" by Sony. I helped my parents get the HS420, and even that set is great, but the XS955/XBR960 are even that much better CRT sets.

BTW, those prices on the Sony page are way out of date. Both the XS955 and HS420 are considered discontinued by retailers, so you can get the 34HS420 for around $1299 and the 34XS955 for around $1599. Around $1899 for 34XBR960, which just has more convinience features/minor feature upgrades than XS955.
 
Fatghost28 said:
Thanks Shog...so if the set is 1400 x 900 capable, can it fully display 720p natively? 720p is just 1280 x 720 right?

Unfortunately, Sony has decided that all their CRTs will side convert 720p to 1080i before displaying. So even though the set's aperture grille tube can easily do 720p natively, the internal electronics will not let it.

Sucks, huh?
 
Shogmaster said:
Unfortunately, Sony has decided that all their CRTs will side convert 720p to 1080i before displaying. So even though the set's aperture grille tube can easily do 720p natively, the internal electronics will not let it.

Sucks, huh?


Wow, why the stupidity? Is there a mod or something to fix it?


How about this?


Grand Wega 42" (as big as I can fit)

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/se...&productId=173763&navigationPath=n32050n45260

KF42WE620_lg.jpg


This or the CRT for 90% gaming, 10% TV watching?
 
Fatghost28 said:
Wow, why the stupidity? Is there a mod or something to fix it?

I guess Sony really loves 1080 anything over everything else. No mods. No nothing.

How about this?


Grand Wega 42" (as big as I can fit)

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/se...&productId=173763&navigationPath=n32050n45260

KF42WE620_lg.jpg


This or the CRT for 90% gaming, 10% TV watching?

I'd rather get something else than an LCD projection set if I'm spending that much, but that's just me.....

BTW, that set is discontinued I think.
 
Shogmaster said:
I guess Sony really loves 1080 anything over everything else. No mods. No nothing.



I'd rather get something else than an LCD projection set if I'm spending that much, but that's just me.....

BTW, that set is discontinued I think.


What would you get, in that price/size range?
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! :lol

At the AVSFORUM, in the A10 discussion thread, one of the new 50A10 owners posted some pics via VGA input playing Half Life 2 and Farcry. Looks HAAAAAWWWT. :D
 
I'd rather get something else than an LCD projection set if I'm spending that much, but that's just me.....

Well, I sure as hell wouldn't spend that much for a DLP (rainbows) or anything using CRT (no 720p).
 
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