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HDMI Spec 1.4 detailes emerge......Monster wins!

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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, the HDMI 1.4 defence force has arrived. I'm out of this motherfucker. It's gotten to gangster even for me - the motherfuckers gangster OG scrila killah.

koam said:
Can't wait to buy these for $3 off monoprice.
Word.
 
bdizzle said:
i dont know why you guys are making a big deal out of this. the consumer will just go to a retailer, buy the cheapest hdmi cable they can find, and keep it movin.

the only ppl wholl be upset with this is the internet nerds
...except now the cheapest cable is intentionally gimped and really will only deliver up to 720p/1080i.

This is a crock of shit. The people who founded and continue to develop revisions of this cable should be ashamed of themselves. The point of HDMI was for it to be simple; Monster complicated things, but not by much. By HDMI now adopting what is essentially a Monster Cable marketing scheme, integrating it into the lifeblood of their actual product, and throwing it in your face, they are going to confuse the hell out of consumers.

I only use 720p so I don't care, and even if I had something better I'm smart enough to know what they're doing, as are all of you. This, however, is both insulting and frustrating to the average consumer, and, in this economy... wow. There should be regulations on this kind of thing. I don't care if it sounds commie, there is absolutely no need to complicate what is such a simple cable. It's like the HDMI people, Monster Cable, and Best Buy got a room and had a big orgy. Disgusting. It's a cable. Not a television, game console, computer, or operating system -- it's a fucking cable. Keep it simple. I was hoping HDMI would have lashed out at Monster for their completely misleading marketing of HDMI.

The only thing I personally worry about is if Blu-Ray movies and possibly video games will eventually require a 1.4 capable HDMI port for stupid content protection, thus rendering millions of TV's and graphics cards useless, including mine (and all of yours).
 
I don't understand the anger at all. The ability to buy a cable with less features saves money. On top of that no one is forced to buy a 1.4 specced cable in the first place, 1.3a is still going to work for those who don't require the use of 1.4's additional features.
 
KHarvey16 said:
I don't understand the anger at all. The ability to buy a cable with less features saves money. On top of that no one is forced to buy a 1.4 specced cable in the first place, 1.3a is still going to work for those who don't require the use of 1.4's additional features.
They're intentionally gimping a perfectly capable cable.

A 1.3a cable I can get from Amazon for under a fucking dollar will outperform a basic 720p/1080i 1.4 cable that will no doubt be marked up to $50 or something at Best Buy.

How can this not piss you off? Do you know how confused the average consumer is going to be when he tries to understand this information?
 
Diablos said:
They're intentionally gimping a perfectly capable cable.

A 1.3a cable I can get from Amazon for under a fucking dollar will outperform a basic 720p/1080i 1.4 cable that will no doubt be marked up for $50 or something at Best Buy.

How can this not piss you off? Do you know how confused the average consumer is going to be when he tries to understand this information?

Have you been following the thread?
 
cjelly said:
So what happens when all the TV manufacturers have jumped on board in 12 months time?

Everyone has to go out and buy new cables?
If their tv/graphics card/whatever doesn't support 1.4 there's no point in even buying a new cable.
 
Yeah I definitely can't support this. With so many features being implemented into a single cable (which I think is great), I can accept there being a single basic cable that's good for your average HDTV owner and the high end souped up cable for those who want to have the best setup but five cables? That's pushing it way to far and considering there are already $400+ dollar HDMI cables at Best Buy, I really hate to see the pricing for these cables.
 
Firestorm said:
I agree that GAF is overreacting as usual. Here are the four types of Monster cables that consumers see if they walk into a major electronics retailer like Best Buy or Future Shop:

web_500_features.jpg
web_700_features.jpg
web_800_features.jpg
web_1000_features.jpg

HDMI500_glam.jpg
HDMI700_glam.jpg
HDMI800_glam.jpg
HDMI1000_glam.jpg


All the cables come with those markings on them in plain sight. Consumers already deal with this shit. The only people becoming further confused are the ones in this thread who had never seen an HDMI cable at retail in their life before.

I don't understand over half of that or care for the difference.
 
As my mom likes to say, "when the hell are they gonna invent something that gets rid of all these cords?!?!?!"

wireless everything :lol :lol
 
Diablos said:
...except now the cheapest cable is intentionally gimped and really will only deliver up to 720p/1080i.

That may be true now, yes. Granted, it is costlier to have more bandwidth (thicker, potentially purer copper, etc), but once you're mass producing it I'd imagine the manufacturing cost is that much more.

There's a totally reasonable explanation why earlier cables don't work though. When they were made for HDMI 1.0, there's only so much extra bandwidth you're going to add to a cable beyond what it needs. You'll add some for longer runs, but in general you're doing some sort of + tolerance to the spec.

Flash to HDMI 1.3 (assuming you're using it near its full capabilities) ... the bandwidth increase is what? 3-fold or so? Then jump to HDMI 1.4. Probably in the neighborhood of a 2-fold increase from 1.3?

This is a crock of shit. The people who founded and continue to develop revisions of this cable should be ashamed of themselves.

I disagree. The gouging of prices has nothing to do with them at all. They don't develop revisions of a cable, they're developing revisions a Tx/Rx/repeater spec that has evolved and increased in BW needs.

Hey, at least they're keeping them backwards compatible. The same can't be said with many I/O's over the year.


Would you really be happier if new features weren't added? Look at USB and Ethernet. They've had the exact same thing happen. If you had a cable that was spec'd for an earlier revision, many times it won't work with the newer one ... or at least not on a longer run. Should they have stopped increasing the specs of those?

The point of HDMI was for it to be simple; Monster complicated things, but not by much. By HDMI now adopting what is essentially a Monster Cable marketing scheme, integrating it into the lifeblood of their actual product, and throwing it in your face, they are going to confuse the hell out of consumers.

As I said, look at USB and Ethernet. Same thing. Regardless, they aren't mandating tiered cables ... I'm sure they'd be more than okay if companies simply moved up to the BW requirements of the current spec and stopped making the old ones.

The only thing I'm unsure about is this coupling with Ethernet stuff. I really don't see the point. Maybe I'm missing something though.

I only use 720p so I don't care, and even if I had something better I'm smart enough to know what they're doing, as are all of you.

Smart enough to know what exactly? That you need a cable capable of supporting the necessary BW the components you use will utilize?

This, however, is both insulting and frustrating to the average consumer, and, in this economy... wow. There should be regulations on this kind of thing. I don't care if it sounds commie, there is absolutely no need to complicate what is such a simple cable. It's like the HDMI people, Monster Cable, and Best Buy got a room and had a big orgy. Disgusting. It's a cable. Not a television, game console, computer, or operating system -- it's a fucking cable. Keep it simple. I was hoping HDMI would have lashed out at Monster for their completely misleading marketing of HDMI.

omg :lol

The only thing I personally worry about is if Blu-Ray movies and possibly video games will eventually require a 1.4 capable HDMI port for stupid content protection, thus rendering millions of TV's and graphics cards useless, including mine (and all of yours).

Last time I checked, 1.4 has no extra content protection features. HTCP has been in there since basically the beginning.

Holy shit ... some of you here are going off the fucking deep end. Either you don't really understand the tech, or you are simply shouting the sky is falling when there isn't a cloud in sight. Damn.
 
Diablos,

BTW - I don't mean to get on your case. I just think you're really making a mountain out of a mole hill here.



cjelly said:
So what happens when all the TV manufacturers have jumped on board in 12 months time?

Everyone has to go out and buy new cables?

No.

You only need the cables if you are using things that require the bandwidth (or the extra wiring for that Ethernet junk - though I'm quite confident 99% of devices will still have an Ethernet port anyway).


That's the point of it being backwards compatible.
 
yeah.. I don't really see HDMI + Ethernet replacing dedicated ethernet on anything except televisions.. most of which don't have ethernet ports anyway.
 
Robobandit said:
yeah.. I don't really see HDMI + Ethernet replacing dedicated ethernet on anything except televisions.. most of which don't have ethernet ports anyway.

Yeah, I'm a bit confused what devices would utilize something like this? What sorts of things would need an HDMI and Ethernet connection between them (and only over a relatively short run)?


Eteric Rice said:
So wait, TV is trying to go 3D now or some shit?

yes
 
Eteric Rice said:
So wait, TV is trying to go 3D now or some shit?

yes, in order to get the 3d you get in movie theaters now the cable, TV and player need to be able to handle 2 1080p images at once. Some new BRD players, future BRD movies and future TVs will handle it and this cord will be needed.

My hope is deep color gets implemented in BD spec at the same time.

Right now for the average person HDMI 1.2 is about as useful.

If you have a good sound system HDMI 1.3 is what you want.

HDMI 1.4 has some very cool features that will largely be unused by most users.
 
Onix said:
Yeah, I'm a bit confused what devices would utilize something like this? What sorts of things would need an HDMI and Ethernet connection between them (and only over a relatively short run)?




yes

It would allow something like an Xbox next, PS4 or blu-ray player to get internet via the same cord that you send video/audio out of.

I think it makes some sense for simplicity sake and the HDMI peeps wish to be a single cable to handle everything.
 
Onix said:
Good lord >_< ... this thread gets worse and worse.

I don't see what is wrong with what I said.

At 8 feet away from the screen you would need an 80" Screen to see the different between 1080p and 1440p.. 2K and you would need a *much* larger screen at that distance... and once you start sitting that close to screens that large you are far exceeding the recommended viewing angles from Dolby and the ISF.

To keep your viewing angle the recommended distance you would need to be talking about a 15+ foot screen. Like I said you either need to sit closer than you are supposed to or have a fucking giant screen.

2K screens are a waste for a reasonably sized display unit.
 
StoOgE said:
It would allow something like an Xbox next, PS4 or blu-ray player to get internet via the same cord that you send video/audio out of.

I think it makes some sense for simplicity sake and the HDMI peeps wish to be a single cable to handle everything.

But how does this work. So okay, you have your PS4 hooked up to your pre/pro, receiver, or directly to your TV ... exactly how is the Ethernet getting connected to your router?

I would guess the assumption is that your pre/pro, receiver, or TV is hooked up via standard Ethernet, and is acting as a switch? That's the only thing I can think of. I guess that actually could work, but only if the internal switch is actually good (which would concern me) ... gigabit? jumbo frame support? etc?
 
Diablos said:
...except now the cheapest cable is intentionally gimped and really will only deliver up to 720p/1080i.

This is a crock of shit. The people who founded and continue to develop revisions of this cable should be ashamed of themselves. The point of HDMI was for it to be simple; Monster complicated things, but not by much. By HDMI now adopting what is essentially a Monster Cable marketing scheme, integrating it into the lifeblood of their actual product, and throwing it in your face, they are going to confuse the hell out of consumers.

I only use 720p so I don't care, and even if I had something better I'm smart enough to know what they're doing, as are all of you. This, however, is both insulting and frustrating to the average consumer, and, in this economy... wow. There should be regulations on this kind of thing. I don't care if it sounds commie, there is absolutely no need to complicate what is such a simple cable. It's like the HDMI people, Monster Cable, and Best Buy got a room and had a big orgy. Disgusting. It's a cable. Not a television, game console, computer, or operating system -- it's a fucking cable. Keep it simple. I was hoping HDMI would have lashed out at Monster for their completely misleading marketing of HDMI.

The only thing I personally worry about is if Blu-Ray movies and possibly video games will eventually require a 1.4 capable HDMI port for stupid content protection, thus rendering millions of TV's and graphics cards useless, including mine (and all of yours).
DAMN HE PUT IT DOWWWWWN.
 
Onix said:
But how does this work. So okay, you have your PS4 hooked up to your pre/pro, receiver, or directly to your TV ... exactly how is the Ethernet getting connected to your router?

I would guess the assumption is that your pre/pro, receiver, or TV is hooked up via standard Ethernet, and is acting as a switch? That's the only thing I can think of. I guess that actually could work, but only if the internal switch is actually good (which would concern me) ... gigabit? jumbo frame support? etc?

either that or something would have wifi hook up in the system.. or maybe they want routers to start using HDMI as well.

I don't see the harm and if they really want HDMI to become "plug and play" for idiots it makes some sense. It could also make the Bluray experience a bit more seamless for J6P.
 
I hope to God they make it easy to differentiate one from another. For fuck's sake. If we are confused, how are normal folks going to understand this shit?

EDIT

So, this means that current TVs, computers and game consoles are obsolete? Plus, I might have a cable that doesn't transmit 1080p? Are you fucking kidding me?
 
StoOgE said:
I don't see what is wrong with what I said.

My main issue was the comment that, '1080p is usless for 90% of consumers as is'. That is way overstated.

While certainly many people are not hitting the screen size/viewing distance ratio to resolve the full resolution, there is a lot more than 10% that are resolving greater than 720p with their ratio. You don't need to see every pixel of a 1080p image to see more detail than 720p.


At 8 feet away from the screen you would need an 80" Screen to see the different between 1080p and 1440p.. 2K and you would need a *much* larger screen at that distance... and once you start sitting that close to screens that large you are far exceeding the recommended viewing angles from Dolby and the ISF.

To keep your viewing angle the recommended distance you would need to be talking about a 15+ foot screen. Like I said you either need to sit closer than you are supposed to or have a fucking giant screen.

2K screens are a waste for a reasonably sized display unit.

Also, another thing you seemed to completely miss is what this was mainly intended for; PC's. While it's possible we may see some movie releases at >1080p resolution for the (niche) front projector market some day, you disregarded the main usage for the higher resolutions.
 
I almost want Apple to start making everything, so at least people will understand this shit. What an absolute failure from the television companies and monster for making all of this shit so ridiculously stupid.

I don't even want to think about how much money I spend on fucking cables and adapters. People wonder why Radioshack is still around and its because everyone always buys the wrong shit and needs to go replace it or get something else.
 
Karma Kramer said:
I almost want Apple to start making everything, so at least people will understand this shit. What an absolute failure from the television companies and monster for making all of this shit so ridiculously stupid.

Apple currently uses DisplayPort, which is going through the same thing.

The new revision (which puts it pretty close to HDMI 1.3 in terms of feature set) is about to hit ... it is their third rev, and will need higher BW cables if you are taking advantage of its capabilities.

I don't even want to think about how much money I spend on fucking cables and adapters. People wonder why Radioshack is still around and its because everyone always buys the wrong shit and needs to go replace it or get something else.

You're not shopping at the right places if you are spending a ton for typical consumer usage cabling and adapters.
 
Rabid Wolverine said:
When do we expect HDMI 1.4 Devices to start showing up on the market.

Remember waiting yonks to get a 1.3 TV. Waited so long got a 1.2.

No clue. Haven't heard dates for Tx, Rx, and repeater boards from Silicon Image. Once those start hitting (they historically have a bit of time between each type's release BTW), the components that utilize them would still be several months away on the best of schedules. I'm thinking we'll see some stuff hitting in the 2010 HW cycle? Maybe some being demoed at CES? That's assuming the boards are hitting in the fall?
 
Onix said:
Holy shit ... some of you here are going off the fucking deep end. Either you don't really understand the tech, or you are simply shouting the sky is falling when there isn't a cloud in sight. Damn.
I warned you! :D
 
Diablos said:
...except now the cheapest cable is intentionally gimped and really will only deliver up to 720p/1080i.

This is a crock of shit. The people who founded and continue to develop revisions of this cable should be ashamed of themselves. The point of HDMI was for it to be simple; Monster complicated things, but not by much. By HDMI now adopting what is essentially a Monster Cable marketing scheme, integrating it into the lifeblood of their actual product, and throwing it in your face, they are going to confuse the hell out of consumers.

I only use 720p so I don't care, and even if I had something better I'm smart enough to know what they're doing, as are all of you. This, however, is both insulting and frustrating to the average consumer, and, in this economy... wow. There should be regulations on this kind of thing. I don't care if it sounds commie, there is absolutely no need to complicate what is such a simple cable. It's like the HDMI people, Monster Cable, and Best Buy got a room and had a big orgy. Disgusting. It's a cable. Not a television, game console, computer, or operating system -- it's a fucking cable. Keep it simple. I was hoping HDMI would have lashed out at Monster for their completely misleading marketing of HDMI.

The only thing I personally worry about is if Blu-Ray movies and possibly video games will eventually require a 1.4 capable HDMI port for stupid content protection, thus rendering millions of TV's and graphics cards useless, including mine (and all of yours).

Gimped or not, most people aren't going to care. They'll go to best buy and look for the cheapest cable they can find hook it up to their tv and not give a rats ass if it's rated at only 720p. Think about how many people out there drop thousands on a big screen, and blu-ray players and don't even take 5 minutes to calibrate their sets. those are the types that's not going to care if they only get 720p/1080i out of their tv. Shit I know about it and I still couldn't give a rats ass cause I can't see the diff between the two 99% of the time.

And to the bolded, content owners aren't that stupid. They won't even turn on ICT on movies, what makes you think they'll make 100% of the current market obsolete?
 
Onix said:
But how does this work. So okay, you have your PS4 hooked up to your pre/pro, receiver, or directly to your TV ... exactly how is the Ethernet getting connected to your router?

I would guess the assumption is that your pre/pro, receiver, or TV is hooked up via standard Ethernet, and is acting as a switch? That's the only thing I can think of. I guess that actually could work, but only if the internal switch is actually good (which would concern me) ... gigabit? jumbo frame support? etc?

I would imagine if 1.4 gets adopted and becomes more standard, you'll see receivers that have built in switches into them. I would hope at least because otherwise 1.4 w/ ethernet is pretty pointless. I would love to remove all the network cables out of my setup since I have so many devices hooked upto the network. I love how HDMI reduced the clutter by so much and can imagine how awesome if 1.4 reduced it even further. Then all I would need is one network cable going from my setup back to the router. I already have an 8 port switch that is mostly full that I would love to get rid of.

The last time I upgraded my receiver, this is what was left over:

3.JPG
 
surrogate said:
Err, 100 Mbit ethernet. Why not Gigabit? I guess they are holding back so they can rape the consumer again with HDMI 1.5.

Probably :p



In reality though, gigabit probably isn't needed here when you think about it. HDMI cables are only useful over a relatively short length, so I'm guessing the assumption is you'd only be switching between things that are all local (eg. a receiver that incorporates a switch for the devices connected to it). Since these are all devices you'd only utilize one or two at a time, there really isn't a problem.

Your backbone infrastructure however (the router or switch the receiver connects to via Ethernet), is what needs to be gigabit. That way, you can utilize several of these 'local clusters' concurrently throughout your house.


I guess this actually makes sense.
 
Onix said:
blah blah i'm not picking on you even though i devoted like two posts in a row to addressing you
I'm pissed mostly with the way they are marketing the latest revision of HDMI. And even if it costs more to manufacture, it technically would not be that big of a difference unless you are in a brick and mortar store where they will mark it up and sell it as a life changing piece of technology. The new HDMI press release is totally opening the door for that bullshit, and I honestly expected much better. There's already enough highway robbery going down because of the way retailers, especially electronics retailers, sell these kinds of products to consumers.

And damn near no one sells the 720p/1080i cables anymore. 1.4 should just kill it off. Again, marketing.
 
Diablos,

Regarding your 'quote' of me, I was apologizing if I sounded like a jerk ... I'm not apologizing for addressing your comments ;)

Diablos said:
I'm pissed mostly with the way they are marketing the latest revision of HDMI.

In reality, it's basically the same cables we've seen previously ... they just dropped the current 1.3 cables in favor of 1.4 (and optionally, 1.4 with Ethernet). I do agree the 'standard' cable should simply go away, and be replaced by 1.3 iterations though.

I'm not sure its really opening the door for anything. I suspect the 1.4 cables will pretty much hit at the 1.3 pricepoint (though the Ethernet ones will cost a bit more).
 
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