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[bargeparty]

Doubt.
The white number sign on the building across from me is -white-, it's not goddamn yellow, it's not how reality looks
These overly "warm" presets like "netflix calibrated mode", just look like someone threw a yellow filter on top, it's as noticable as the extra green filter added to the 2004 release of the matrix. What makes it even more obvious, is that even the white in the netflix logo and the subtitles turn yellow, specifically not how it's "supposed to look"; it looks like shit.
It's especially terrible on animated shows, unless you believe dexter's labcoat should be yellow instead of white.

It's probably an issue with the factory calibration then.

I didn't want to get into it before, but as mentioned not every tv with the same model is the same. They all have variances and some are just busted, requiring replacement. There's a chance in your set (which is?) warm is overly red or something. You could balance it out with a little bit of time and effort.

I guarantee you put that "white" sign on your tv and it'll be blue tinted.

Go ahead and post a picture of Dexter on your tv, to the best of your ability cuz taking pictures of a tv to match real life isn't that easy. Close enough should be good.

 

[bargeparty]

Yeap…

What people need understand is that losing a bit of the image instead seeing black bars generate way lesser consumer criticism.

Normal consumers won't ever say anything for that screen he is not seeing after all more if not all content for TVs are made to not need that part of the screen at all (the excepting is using TV as a PC monitor because the TaskBar).

What the hell are you talking about? Show me where people complain about black bars on content.

Can we stop catering to the lowest denominator. How about educating people instead?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Go ahead and post a picture of Dexter on your tv, to the best of your ability cuz taking pictures of a tv to match real life isn't that easy. Close enough should be good.

You know there's no point to this, whatever the camera captures is gonna be shifted by whatever your screen is calibrated at anyway.
All I can say is his coat looks as white as it should to my eyes; no yellows.

 

[tommib]

We've gone from people loving soap-opera effects on Kubrick, vivid colour settings instead of warm, and now we're going through the hell of not respecting anamorphic formats to avoid black bars. Someone put me out of my misery.

 

[bargeparty]

You know there's no point to this, whatever the camera captures is gonna be shifted by whatever your screen is calibrated at anyway.
All I can say is his coat looks as white as it should to my eyes; no yellows.

Not true. My semi-calibrated, more accurate tv would show the colors as they appear in the source material. So long as you can take a picture that shows how it looks irl, or as close as possible.

If you're using any sort of "neutral" or "normal" sort of color temp, there's added blue tint. If you like it that's fine. But that's not really what we've been going on about.

Still haven't said what tv you have as well.

 

[Kuranghi]

What the hell are you talking about? Show me where people complain about black bars on content.

Can we stop catering to the lowest denominator. How about educating people instead?

I'm not speaking to overscan and if it should be used or not but in my experience with the general UK public (many different types of people, from in their 20s right up to 80s) over five (5) years they absolutely are concerned with "the black bars" and if you can "get rid of them".

I'd say maybe up to 20% of my customers ask me if the black bars will be on the TV when they have it at home. They would prefer to distort the AR or crop the image to remove them, mental I know but just my ancecdotal experience on that.

I tried to educate them at first but they just see the black bars as their TV image being smaller and they hate that. I think some buy a bigger telly just to get more actual image on screen. Maybe its in part because UK living rooms are so small and so since people are buying 43" and 50" sized sets the black bars removes much more of the image than it would on a 65" or 75" set.

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

brightness 100
contrast 100
vibrance 100
they wouldnt go to 100 if they didnt want you to use them

full frame always. i dont buy a tv to not use all of the screen
color temperature cool
gamma off because im alpha af

 

[bargeparty]

You know there's no point to this, whatever the camera captures is gonna be shifted by whatever your screen is calibrated at anyway.
All I can say is his coat looks as white as it should to my eyes; no yellows.

Well I wrote a whole response and then decided to say fuck it, was gonna save it anyway in case. But it's gone.

You're free to watch whatever you want, how you want, but don't spout bullshit about color accuracy just because you don't understand it.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

But that's not really what we've been going on about.

You're right, what I've been going on about is that I don't like whites looking yellow

 

[bargeparty]

You're right, what I've been going on about is that I don't like whites looking yellow

And you don't know what you're talking about so, whatever.

 

[bargeparty]

I'm not speaking to overscan and if it should be used or not but in my experience with the general UK public (many different types of people, from in their 20s right up to 80s) over five (5) years they absolutely are concerned with "the black bars" and if you can "get rid of them".

I'd say maybe up to 20% of my customers ask me if the black bars will be on the TV when they have it at home. They would prefer to distort the AR or crop the image to remove them, mental I know but just my ancecdotal experience on that.

I tried to educate them at first but they just see the black bars as their TV image being smaller and they hate that. I think some buy a bigger telly just to get more actual image on screen. Maybe its in part because UK living rooms are so small and so since people are buying 43" and 50" sized sets the black bars removes much more of the image than it would on a 65" or 75" set.

So strange that people who aren't on the verge of death have no concept of aspect ratios.

I guess they don't care enough to educate themselves. Makes sense.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

And you don't know what you're talking about so whatever.

Lol you're a fucking joke, I've only ever said what it looks like to me and what I prefer, go bother someone else with your stalking ass replies.

 

[tommib]

brightness 100
contrast 100
vibrance 100
they wouldnt go to 100 if they didnt want you to use them

full frame always. i dont buy a tv to not use all of the screen
color temperature cool
gamma off because im alpha af

 

[Kuranghi]

 

[Kuranghi]

brightness 100
contrast 100
vibrance 100
they wouldnt go to 100 if they didnt want you to use them

full frame always. i dont buy a tv to not use all of the screen
color temperature cool
gamma off because im alpha af

"Gamma off" made me laugh too much.

Hisense TVs go up to like 3.0 and it looks so mental. Everyone has pure black eyes:

Black Eyes of Evil - TV Tropes

Traditionally, a cheap and easy way to show that a character is evil is the use of colored contact lenses in live action, or colored or glowing eyes in animation. Since the 1990s, however, a new trend has emerged â the Black …

tvtropes.org

 

[Buggy Loop]

Pioneer Kuro had a 3:3 frame repeater for 24Hz content that then ran at 72Hz, but without any interpolation. It just slightly removed judder. Still looks amazing nowadays and does not produce the soap opera effect that interpolation creates.

 

[Kuranghi]

Its so true that someone was in a TV thread talking about how they thought console fanboys were scary, but that "TV enthusiasts" take it to another level

It happens in my work too, unexpected brand passion, I'll often say, "Would you consider <X> brand instead of your preferred brand? No obligation, I can just show you my alternatives and I'll compare them fairly to your chosen brand/model and tell you the negatives and positives of both" and they go totally mental like I've pissed on their kids at Christmas

Really I just want people to know the truth about the HW in each set outside of what the brand itself tells you* because I want them to make an informed decision and they'll sometimes imply I'd just say whatever to sell my brand over their preferred one, but everything I say can be verified on a phone in 30 seconds, so if I lied to them they could find out almost instantly and that would also be mis-selling under the trading standards in the UK so they would have a right to return the product.

If you don't want to do the legwork yourself (reading reviews, watching videos on youtube, learning about TV concepts, checking specifications websites to see what HW is really in the TV*, etc) and also temper all the knowledge with actual critical thinking based on what you know ie that dimming zone count isn't just, its higher its better, it depends on the algorithm and you can make reasonable assumptions based on brands past efforts then you have to listen to me or just guess or don't buy a telly.

Obviously there are a lot of ballbag salesman in the world and some people also just hate salesman generally but you kinda gotta do the work yourself, listen to someone else and verify it with other honest opinions or buy blindly.

*The brand writes things like "16x extended dynamic ballbag increase!" but it means nothing to consumers so its important to find out the actual specs, like dimming zone count, refresh rate, native contrast ratio, panel bit depth, general colour accuracy of model out of the box, etc.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Over Scan doesn't NEED to exist anymore, it was there to compensate for CRT's OVER SCANNING the tube causing the information on the edge around the picture to be scanned out and not viewable, thus broadcast standards came up with the term Overscan Safe Area where nothing important is placed in that part of the frame. That's pretty much since long been abandoned by the broadcast industry and certainly has no place in modern TV's. For example, a 1080p screen, that's 1920x1080, Overscan would crop that to 1880x1020 and then STRETCH that to 1920x1080, ...for what? All you're doing is degrading your input image at that point for an outdated long forgotten standard.

Before I canceled my cable TV sub there were channels that had weird stuff along the bottom of the screen that would show if overscan wasnt enabled.

 

[recursive]

Doubt.
The white number sign on the building across from me is -white-, it's not goddamn yellow, it's not how reality looks
These overly "warm" presets like "netflix calibrated mode", just look like someone threw a yellow filter on top, it's as noticable as the extra green filter added to the 2004 release of the matrix. What makes it even more obvious, is that even the white in the netflix logo and the subtitles turn yellow, specifically not how it's "supposed to look"; it looks like shit.
It's especially terrible on animated shows, unless you believe dexter's labcoat should be yellow instead of white.

That white sign also does not look blue tinted which is what most "cool" modes look like. At the end of the day creator intent is trumped by personal preference even if it's not proper to the original intent. I normally prefer some variation on warm as that looks most natural to me.

 

[bargeparty]

another shill



smh

 

[tommib]

another shill



smh

There's no point in fighting against these people, my dude. We lost them. We can only pray for them.

 

[IntentionalPun]

What the hell are you talking about? Show me where people complain about black bars on content.

The entire internet pre-"widescreen TVs" was full of complaints.

Then widescreen TVs became the norm, the complaints lessened.. especially since said TVs generally have overscan on to limit the dreaded "black bars" for content wider than 16:.9.

I say: let people have their options.

 

[bargeparty]

The entire internet pre-"widescreen TVs" was full of complaints.

Then widescreen TVs became the norm, the complaints lessened.. especially since said TVs generally have overscan on to limit the dreaded "black bars" for content wider than 16:.9.

I say: let people have their options.

How can I remove the blue bars in your avatar?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Or that it raises gamma and causes flicker on even popular TV's like C9 and CX, but we need to pretend it does not happen because… reasons…

I mean, fuck image quality, amirite?

BRB, need to head to a DF face off to argue with 800x zoom.

 

[DeepEnigma]

100%

Plus I hate Film maker mode its too dark and flat

I don't care much how it was intended to be viewed I want to watch stuff that is pleasing to my eye

60fps added to the MLBtv app a while back is a glorious thing.

Makes for tracking the ball even on a pitch, sublime.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I hate Film maker mode. I have a LG Nano and everything looks brown and washed out. I like Sports and Vivid because everything pops and looks more vibrant.

Is this sarcasm lmao...

 

[IntentionalPun]

How can I remove the blue bars in your avatar?

I need those blue "bars" after long nights of white lines.

If yaknowyaknow.

 

[AJUMP23]

What about my zenith 4:3 tv.

 

[DarkestHour]

I laughed at someone claiming they work in a high color accuracy environment and then saying their calibration tool for their television's color is their eyes.

 

[Demigod Mac]

I find a 3/10 setting on motion smoothing (on LG OLED) gets frame judder under control without a noticeable soap opera effect or artifacting.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I laughed at someone claiming they work in a high color accuracy environment and then saying their calibration tool for their television's color is their eyes.

lol

 

[tommib]

I laughed at someone claiming they work in a high color accuracy environment and then saying their calibration tool for their television's color is their eyes.

Oh, man. So true. I just really hope that was BS. We don't need these •professionals• calibrating our hardware and software.

 

[fersnake]

i turned on a friend tv and omfg the sharpening was like 95 xD

 

[YCoCg]

Before I canceled my cable TV sub there were channels that had weird stuff along the bottom of the screen that would show if overscan wasnt enabled.

What backwards country is this that's still using the overscan region to include information for TV's from the 1970's?

 

[tsumake]

Overscan is such a weird thing to exist in 2021, I don't get it



Problem is, 24 fps motion on sample and hold displays like OLED and LCD looks much worse than on cinema screen. So with motion interpolation off you're not watching it how filmmakers intended either.

That makes me wonder - would black frame insertion simulate projector flicker at 24hz?

 

[ethomaz]

i turned on a friend tv and omfg the sharpening was like 95 xD

Well you don't need to look outside… people here though the Xbox One upscaling was God send of image quality just because it applied sharpening in all sub-1080p games in 2013-2014.

Some people really do like that sharper image.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I laughed at someone claiming they work in a high color accuracy environment and then saying their calibration tool for their television's color is their eyes.

If you're going to misrepresent what I said, at least properly quote me instead of this drive by beta shit.

 

[Boglin]

Well you don't need to look outside… people here though the Xbox One upscaling was God send of image quality just because it applied sharpening in all sub-1080p games in 2013-2014.

Some people really do like that sharper image.

It also crushed blacks like crazy. Those early comparisons were a pretty good test to show that the "correct" way doesn't always look the best to everybody.
It's nice that people are able to choose what they like though, even if it's not technically accurate.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Today's reminder that most people buy a TV, take it home, plug it in, and watch it. No normie even looks at the settings in their TV ever.

The various defaults are set up that way to please normies. No one on GAF is a normie, and you should probably accept that now.

 

[dotnotbot]

That makes me wonder - would black frame insertion simulate projector flicker at 24hz?

Yes, black frame insertion or rolling scan is the solution but 120 Hz is not enough. We need much faster displays so that BFI or rolling scan works much better and gets us closer to plasma/crt motion resolution, don't know about projectors.

Edit: for example if we compare OLED to plasma, without any motion interpolation, motion resolution is more than 3 times higher on plasma with 24 FPS content. Turning on BFI on 120 Hz OLED can roughly double that resolution but also halves output brightness. Currently, in order to match plasma's motion resolution, OLED needs both BFI and motion interpolation turned on.
Same with LCD but on LCD slower response times helps somewhat to fill in the gaps between frames so our eyes don't get so disoriented with low framerate.

 

[YCoCg]

i turned on a friend tv and omfg the sharpening was like 95 xD

This feels like a double whammy of leaving Noise Reduction/DNR turned on, which over smooths and blurs the image so they compensate by turning up the sharpness to the extreme.

 

[DemonCleaner]

I've seen most of my friends TV's and all of them had over scan turned on I can't help but get the remote and change the settings without asking lol

similarly i have the bad habbit to always deactivate frame interpolation on every TV when im on a visit somewhere without telling my host

 

[The Pleasure]

This, oh god this.


The weirdness of it.......I'll never get used to it

Doesn't happen on PLASMA. Plasma has 24 frame support and it doesn't look weird. That's why I still hold onto these tvs. My blu ray collection is living large baby.

 

[tsumake]

Yes, black frame insertion or rolling scan is the solution but 120 Hz is not enough. We need much faster displays so that BFI or rolling scan works much better and gets us closer to plasma/crt motion resolution, don't know about projectors.

Edit: for example if we compare OLED to plasma, without any motion interpolation, motion resolution is more than 3 times higher on plasma with 24 FPS content. Turning on BFI on 120 Hz OLED can roughly double that resolution but also halves output brightness. Currently, in order to match plasma's motion resolution, OLED needs both BFI and motion interpolation turned on.
Same with LCD but on LCD slower response times helps somewhat to fill in the gaps between frames so our eyes don't get so disoriented with low framerate.

For 24hz, would a 48hz output with BFI be sufficient?

Also, can you engage HDR with BFI? I'd imagine a 24hz display with BFI and HDR would be the true filmmaker mode.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Yeah you got to have some mild motion optimization (not necessarily motion interpolation) turned on on OLED TVs or its a stuttering mess in 24fps.

I know, but still doubt.
I work on graphics professionally and I've worked on all kinds of different calibrated screens for long periods of times, but when the 255 whites simply don't look 255 white, it annoys me greatly; even just the netflix logo turning yellow pisses me off.

And like I said, the signs outside look white, they don't look like someone is holding a yellow light right above it. I mostly use animated/3d material for my personal calibration, and all of them have terrible white levels when preset to something warm.

dude you won't listen. Lol. Your phones screen can become yellow at night to go easily on the eyes. 10min in. White is white again. Your brain can compensate for all kind of stuff.

 

[Bramble]

hell, i can't believe that overscan is still default on.

just checked my LG and in TV mode it was still activated.

Where do you find this on a C1/G1? And frame interpolation?

 

[DemonCleaner]

Where do you find this on a C1/G1? And frame interpolation?

Just Scan on = overscan off .... under "Format" on the c9

 

[Bramble]

Just Scan on = overscan off .... under "Format" on the c9

I don't have a C9. Can't find it on G1.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I literally just watched this video on YouTube and it pops up again on here. I actually like the smooth effect, but I can understand people who don't. I especially like it with gaming because it generally makes thing look smoother. Yeah, I used to be a mostly cold tv setting person, but warm kind of grows on you after awhile.

 

[acm2000]

when i got my sony xf90 i went through HDTVTests calibration guide along with downloading some test stuff from AVF, once id been through it all i tweaked it slightly to my own taste and as such i didnt have to change anything mentioned in this video.

the only setting i do have on is the motion on lowest, it just helps remove enough of the 24p judder to make it look nicer without introducing artefacts or soap opera.